NCAA Handbook on home/neutral site determination

[mikemarc1]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf

This is NCAAs policy handbook I found online…and it’s pretty clear our game Saturday does constitute a RU home game per NCAA policies.

No one is screwing Rutgers.or doing Izzo a favor. It’s right here in writing.

But yea…why Rutgers was told this now and didn’t know before the season…someone somewhere didn’t do their research

Go RU…and let’s pack MSG!

 

[Zak57]

Depends on their definition of "reasonable distance." To a lot of people in Central Jersey NYC is not a reasonable distance. We also didn't include this game in our home game season ticket package. We're also not controlling the operations of the game.

B1G is a 3rd party and controlling the game. It's B1G Super Saturday, not Rutgers Super Sat at MSG.

 

[fatsam98]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf

This is NCAAs policy handbook I found online…and it’s pretty clear our game Saturday does constitute a RU home game per NCAA policies.

No one is screwing Rutgers.or doing Izzo a favor. It’s right here in writing.

But yea…why Rutgers was told this now and didn’t know before the season…someone somewhere didn’t do their research

Go RU…and let’s pack MSG!

Not sure why this required a new thread but ok:

Rutgers to MSG is about an hour. Rutgers isn't controlling gameday ops or ticket sales.

Tuscaloosa to Birmingham is about an hour. Alabama played Gonzaga in Birmingham and it was neutral.

Why would the conclusion be any different?

 

[GORU2014]

Team A is playing Team B. For results and the Rating Percentage Index/NET, the contest is considered a home contest for Team A and an away contest for Team B if the site:
● Is the regular home site for Team A

No

● Is rented by Team A, and Team A, regardless of the opponent, arranges for officials, controls the tickets (and the game is part of the season-ticket package), and is responsible for game operations.

No

● Is in the same city or a reasonable distance within the metropolitan area of Team A, and its opponent, Team B, is from outside the metro area

Maybe

● Is in the same city or a reasonable distance within the metropolitan area of both teams and one team, Team A, is designated as the home team and includes the game in its season-ticket package

No

● Is in the same area as Team A and Team A plays some or several home games there each season

No

● Is in a city close by Team A and Team A designates the game as a home game that will count in its home attendance. The game is also included in the season ticket package offered by the school.

No

● Is a temporary home site while the regular home site for Team A is being renovated

No

● Is a nearby temporary emergency site while the regular home site for Team A is being repaired

No

I have no idea what you read but it only maybe meets 1 out of 8 criteria

 

[fluoxetine]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf

This is NCAAs policy handbook I found online…and it’s pretty clear our game Saturday does constitute a RU home game per NCAA policies.

No one is screwing Rutgers.or doing Izzo a favor. It’s right here in writing.

But yea…why Rutgers was told this now and didn’t know before the season…someone somewhere didn’t do their research

Go RU…and let’s pack MSG!

It looks like this game would be a prime candidate for the exception detailed at the end of the section.

That said, if it’s not going to be eligible for this exception we should not agree to play these anymore regardless of whether the NCAA guidelines say it’s a home game or not.

 

[fluoxetine]

No

No

Maybe

No

No

No

No

No

I have no idea what you read but it only maybe meets 1 out of 8 criteria

To be fair it’s only possible to meet one of the 8 criteria.. they’re examples of different situations.

 

[mikemarc1]

Not sure why this required a new thread but ok:

Rutgers to MSG is about an hour. Rutgers isn't controlling gameday ops or ticket sales.

Tuscaloosa to Birmingham is about an hour. Alabama played Gonzaga in Birmingham and it was neutral.

Why would the conclusion be any different?

Birmingham and Tuscaloosa are different metro areas.

 

[Zak57]

This makes it neutral.

Is a venue other than Team A’s and Team B’s home venue and is hosted and organized by a third party.

Example: The LSU and BYU football teams are scheduled to play in the AdvoCare Texas Kickoff game at NRG Stadium in Houston. The game is considered a neutral-site game because Lone Star Sports & Entertainment organized the game and handled all game-day operations.

 

[mikemarc1]

No

No

Maybe

No

No

No

No

No

I have no idea what you read but it only maybe meets 1 out of 8 criteria

The maybe should be a yes. That’s why it’s a home game

 

[Zak57]

The maybe should be a yes. That’s why it’s a home game

No it shouldn't.

 

[mikemarc1]

This makes it neutral.

Is a venue other than Team A’s and Team B’s home venue and is hosted and organized by a third party.

Example: The LSU and BYU football teams are scheduled to play in the AdvoCare Texas Kickoff game at NRG Stadium in Houston. The game is considered a neutral-site game because Lone Star Sports & Entertainment organized the game and handled all game-day operations.

It’s not organized by a third party though. It’s organized by the conference…not a third party.

 

[bac2therac]

Looks like the OP failed badly

 

[fatsam98]

Birmingham and Tuscaloosa are different metro areas.

It's semantics. Same travel time. You defending this is bizarre honestly.

 

[GORU2014]

To be fair it’s only possible to meet one of the 8 criteria.. they’re examples of different situations.

Could be 2 and 3 but I get your point. It also says schools can appeal, hopefully we do if (for example) MSU sold tickets to their season ticket holders and we didn’t organize the officiating/game day ops, etc.

 

[mikemarc1]

No it shouldn't.

Why not? Our scenario fits that perfectly..what makes it a “maybe”…t distance to NYC too far in your opinion?

 

[mikemarc1]

It's semantics. Same travel time. You defending this is bizarre honestly.

Nothing about travel time in the handbook, Sam.

 

[Zak57]

It’s not organized by a third party though. It’s organized by the conference…not a third party.

The conference is a 3rd party. Rutgers and Michigan State didn't organize so B1G is considered a 3rd party in this case.

 

[Zak57]

Why not? Our scenario fits that perfectly..what makes it a “maybe”…t distance to NYC too far in your opinion?

Reasonable distance should be defined. Too much ambiguity. One can make the argument easily that MSG is not a reasonable distance from the RAC.

 

[mikemarc1]

Reasonable distance should be defined. Too much ambiguity. One can make the argument easily that MSG is not a reasonable distance from the RAC.

Ok. Fair.

 

[GORU2014]

It’s not organized by a third party though. It’s organized by the conference…not a third party.

Party 1: Rutgers
Party 2: MSU
Party 3: Big Ten

 

[Zak57]

Rutgers should win an appeal easily especially if they have it in writing that the B1G asked them to move the game.

 

[mikemarc1]

Party 1: Rutgers
Party 2: MSU
Party 3: Big Ten

I don’t think that’s a 3rd party in this case. It’s part of the ncaa

 

[GORU2014]

Rutgers should win an appeal easily especially if they have it in writing that the B1G asked them to move the game.

Maybe we can just show them every other game we’ve played at MSG as the “home” team that counted as neutral court

 

[GORU2014]

I don’t think that’s a 3rd party in this case. It’s part of the ncaa

You’re talking crazy right now

 

[mikemarc1]

You’re talking crazy right now

Agree to disagree. Think it’s pretty clear.

 

[fluoxetine]

@mikemarc1

The guidelines suck balls

(1) who cares about metro area? Why should we be ****ed because NYC has a gigantic metro area?
(2) what the **** is a “reasonable distance”? A weasel word to let the NCAA do whatever it wants. Why not list a number of miles?
(3) why was literally the last game we played at MSG considered neutral? Did the NCAA not follow its own guidelines?
(4) there are apparently exceptions allowed. The big ten should make sure this qualifies or the next time they want us for big ten super Saturday we should say “it replaces a road game every time or you can shove it up your ass”

 

[mikemarc1]

@mikemarc1

The guidelines suck balls

(1) who cares about metro area? Why should we be ****ed because NYC has a gigantic metro area?
(2) what the **** is a “reasonable distance”? A weasel word to let the NCAA do whatever it wants. Why not list a number of miles?
(3) why was literally the last game we played at MSG considered neutral? Did the NCAA not follow its own guidelines?
(4) there are apparently exceptions allowed. The big ten should make sure this qualifies or the next time they want us for big ten super Saturday we should say “it replaces a road game every time or you can shove it up your ass”

Agree…they suck balls. Lol

 

[mikemarc1]

@mikemarc1

The guidelines suck balls

(1) who cares about metro area? Why should we be ****ed because NYC has a gigantic metro area?
(2) what the **** is a “reasonable distance”? A weasel word to let the NCAA do whatever it wants. Why not list a number of miles?
(3) why was literally the last game we played at MSG considered neutral? Did the NCAA not follow its own guidelines?
(4) there are apparently exceptions allowed. The big ten should make sure this qualifies or the next time they want us for big ten super Saturday we should say “it replaces a road game every time or you can shove it up your ass”

I believe MSG company ran our game vs Michigan….

 

[GORU2014]

I believe MSG company ran our game vs Michigan….

Our…Big Ten Super Saturday game…like this one…?

 

[fluoxetine]

I believe MSG company ran our game vs Michigan….

Are they not running this one?

 

[Upstream]

Team A is playing Team B. For results and the Rating Percentage Index/NET, the contest is considered a home contest for Team A and an away contest for Team B if the site:

Is in the same city or a reasonable distance within the metropolitan area of Team A, and its opponent, Team B, is from outside the metro area. Example: The Butler women’s basketball team has a scheduled home game against Indiana at Hinkle Fieldhouse. Butler agrees to play the game at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, which is a few miles away from campus, in order to attract a larger crowd. It is still considered a home game for Butler.

Based on this, the game would be considered a home game for Rutgers, since Rutgers is located in the NY metro area and Mich St is from outside the area.

Team A is playing Team B. For results and RPI/NETs, the contest is considered a neutral-site contest for both teams if the site:

Is a venue other than Team A’s and Team B’s home venue and is hosted and organized by a third party. Example: The LSU and BYU football teams are scheduled to play in the AdvoCare Texas Kickoff game at NRG Stadium in Houston. The game is considered a neutral-site game because Lone Star Sports & Entertainment organized the game and handled all game-day operations.

Based on this, the game is a neutral site game because the Big Ten Conference organized the game and handled all game-day operations.

Since the determination of home/away and neutral site games can sometimes be a complicated issue, a school can appeal to the NCAA for exceptions to the rule.

Example: Butler’s men’s basketball team is playing Indiana at Bankers Life Fieldhouse. While it may look like a home game for Butler since the arena and the team are located in Indianapolis, Indiana contracted the game with Butler, rented the arena and the Big Ten conference assigned the game officials. However, the game is not part of either team’s season ticket package, but both teams included the game an option with the season tickets for priority purchasing. In this case, the game will be designated as a neutral site game.

Bingo. We have a winner. The example almost exactly matches this situation. The game looks like a Rutgers home game since Rutgers and MSG are both located in the NY metro area. But the Big Ten (not Rutgers) rented the arena. The game is not part of either team's season ticket package. Therefore the game should be designated as a neutral site game.

Rutgers should appeal. The determination can be made after the game, since the Home-Neutral-Away designation only counts for NET calculation and Quad assignments. (And quite honestly, the quad assignment is probably meaningless, since Rutgers would be a Quad 1 game for Mich St, and Mich St is likely to end up being a Quad 2 game for Rutgers, regardless of whether this is a home or neutral game.)

 

[fluoxetine]

You think Michigan St falls out of the top 50?

 

[mikemarc1]

Are they not running this one?

We get tix thru my company to all MSG run events. This game wasn’t an option. Our game years ago we were able to get tix

Not sure that’s 100% proof they aren’t but found it interesting.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

No

No

Maybe

No

No

No

No

No

I have no idea what you read but it only maybe meets 1 out of 8 criteria

Sorry, While Piscataway and New Brunswick may be thought of as within New York's Metropolitan area, New York City is not within theirs.

And in fact it is a distinct metropolitan statistical area as defined by the US Census.

Doesn't meet the definition....

 

[fluoxetine]

Sorry, While Piscataway and New Brunswick may be thought of as within New York's Metropolitan area, New York City is not within theirs.

And in fact it is a distinct metropolitan statistical area as defined by the US Census.

Doesn't meet the definition....

This is also a good point

 

[ColonelRutgers]

For the record, and because I'm still pissed and refuse to let it go, here's the example that the NCAA provided:

Example: The Butler women’s basketball team has a scheduled home game against Indiana at Hinkle Fieldhouse. Butler agrees to play the game at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, which is a few miles away from campus, in order to attract a larger crowd. It is still considered a home game for Butler.

Hinkle Fieldhouse is 6.2 miles from Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

According to the NJ Transit NEC schedule, a trip from New Brunswick to New York is 1 hour and 1 minute. (Your results may vary)

The distance from the RAC to Madison Square Garden is 38 miles via I-95 and 40 by GSP. How long that would take in actual time is anyone's guess.

You make the call.

 

[bac2therac]

You think Michigan St falls out of the top 50?

No

 

[fluoxetine]

No

Agreed. But that was directed at @Upstream since he said he thought this would be Q2 as a neutral game.

 

[cicero grimes]

Let's just win the game.

 

[fluoxetine]

Let's just win the game.

We can’t. Most of us are not nearly good enough players and also are not allowed to play.