Nick Suriano Status

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Why would anyone want to do that? Here's the applicable rule:

2. Post Matriculation. A student-athlete that has signed a tender from a Conference institution and has triggered transfer status per NCAA Bylaw 14.5.2 (conditions affecting transfer status), may not represent an alternate Big Ten institution in intercollegiate athletics competition until the individual has completed one (1) full academic year of residence at the alternate (i.e.,
certifying) Big Ten institution and shall be charged with the loss of one (1) season of eligibility in all sports.

You have to try to be confused about this rule. It's absolutely clear. If you don't like it, you don't sign on with a B1G school - or you don't try to transfer to another B1G school unless you are willing to lose the year.

You have posted this at least a dozen times. And each time you act like this is all stupid, that the rule is crystal clear. Of course the written rule is clear. What is not clear is the process for seeking a waiver of the rule, because its not written anywhere. There is no procedure for seeking a waiver, nor are any criteria given. But they have waived the rule before. Its like you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

Once you acknowledge that a waiver is possible, you get to whether this is a case in which the rule can be waived. And the answer to that, no one knows, because no one knows what the grounds are.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Is anyone on here concerned that Goodale may have talked to Suriano about the transfer prior to having permission from Cael to talk to him? I mean, you're all so concerned about Cael doing the right thing, and yet not a peep from any of you about a potential NCAA rules violation coming out of your program? Maybe Goodale should do the right thing, too. Don't you think? Ah, probably not.

Not really. Thanks for checking though.

Doing the right thing as far as Cael's alleged actions is a fair question. Is it right for him to tell the Big Ten he would support a waiver, or is it fair of him to take the position that he is not going to participate in any waiver that may be sought, knowing that it will likely result in the waiver being denied, and force NS to transfer to a non-Big Ten school? Honestly, I can see it both ways. Schools invest in the kids, but the kids are just kids, and really should have mobility. I would prefer a system in which there was a one time free transfer after 2 competition years. That would prevent kids from leaving on a whim, but give them an out if they made a mistake. The schools who invest resources would get 2 full years out of the student athlete.

Whether or not Goodale did the right thing is a separate question, and you are just speculating, based on nothing, that our head coach violated one of the most basic rules in the rule book. I don't think anyone is that dumb. This stuff is always done through intermediaries.

 

[Rutgers85]

I think the rule that you lose a year of eligibility is dumb but the PA coach is correct in this instance. He gave him his release. I assume the coach could have denied the release but I'm not up on transfer rules. Why should he help Suriano get an extra year? Suriano knew the rules. Pretty cut and dry to me but what do I know.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Not really. Thanks for checking though. Doing the right thing as far as Cael is a fair question. Is it right to grant a release, or is it fair of him to take the position that if NS wants to leave he can go to a non-Big Ten school. Honestly, I can see it both ways. Whether or not Goodale did the right thing is a separate question, and you are just speculating, based on nothing, that a coach violated one of the most basic rules in the rule book. I don't think anyone is that dumb. This stuff is always done through intermediaries.

Of course, questioning Cael's motives is okay by you, which is, of course, speculation. Cael has to do the right thing, but Goodale, not so much. Got it.

So, you're saying Goodale had intermediaries talk to Suriano or his parents. And, if Goodale had intermediaries, that makes it okay. I'm sure the NCAA would see it that way, too.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Of course, questioning Cael's motives is okay by you, which is, of course, speculation. Cael has to do the right thing, but Goodale, not so much. Got it.

So, you're saying Goodale had intermediaries talk to Suriano or his parents. And, if Goodale had intermediaries, that makes it okay. I'm sure the NCAA would see it that way, too.

Lol. Way to put words in my mouth. You are on a Rutgers board, you get that right? If you, Matter and Johnstownsteel want to have your PSU "rules are crystal clear/obvious tampering/only PSU can help NS achieve his goals" circle jerk just go back to the 35 page cesspool of a thread on BWI.

One, I said i could see both sides of it as far as Cael is concerned. I just summed up the issue as I see it. I never said what was right or wrong.

Two, it seems like you are of the impression that your baiting message board posts may trigger an ncaa investigation, which is kind of funny. I am not saying Goodale had intermediaries. I am saying that NS probably had someone approach our staff about transferring. The contact would not have been initiated by RU. I have no idea what actually happened in this particular situation, but that is how its always done.

 

[NorthNJRUFan]

When you change your mind it has consequences. When Franklin lest Vandy he paid the buy out agreed to in his contract. When Suriano left Penn State shouldn't he fufil the terms that he agreed to when he went to Penn State? That is he transfers to another B1G school he loses a year of eligibility.

Lol. You think Franklin paid Vandy and that wasnt part of the negotiation with Penn State? You think these coaches just pay out of pocket and its not part of the new school's compensation package.

Oh boy. That sums up why you dont understand this.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Lol. Way to put words in my mouth. You are on a Rutgers board, you get that right? If you, Matter and Johnstownsteel want to have your PSU "rules are crystal clear/obvious tampering/only PSU can help NS achieve his goals" circle jerk just go back to the 35 page cesspool of a thread on BWI.

One, I said i could see both sides of it as far as Cael is concerned. I just summed up the issue as I see it. I never said what was right or wrong.

Two, it seems like you are of the impression that your baiting message board posts may trigger an ncaa investigation, which is kind of funny. I am not saying Goodale had intermediaries. I am saying that NS probably had someone approach our staff about transferring. The contact would not have been initiated by RU. I have no idea what actually happened in this particular situation, but that is how its always done.

Well, I guess if Nick's goals are to go 8, 4, 6 like Ashnault, then, yeah, you're right, go to Rutgers.

And, I fully expect Delaney is on a plane to Rutgers right now, since he monitors wrestling message boards for B1G violations. :joy:

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Wait, whoa, what is this? Rutgers didn't grant a full release of Tom Savage? Oh, the humanity! Or, the double-standard. Whichever.

https://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footb...om-savage-transfer-rutgers-miami-greg-schiano

 

[Hotshoe]

Not really. Thanks for checking though.

Doing the right thing as far as Cael's alleged actions is a fair question. Is it right for him to tell the Big Ten he would support a waiver, or is it fair of him to take the position that he is not going to participate in any waiver that may be sought, knowing that it will likely result in the waiver being denied, and force NS to transfer to a non-Big Ten school? Honestly, I can see it both ways. Schools invest in the kids, but the kids are just kids, and really should have mobility. I would prefer a system in which there was a one time free transfer after 2 competition years. That would prevent kids from leaving on a whim, but give them an out if they made a mistake. The schools who invest resources would get 2 full years out of the student athlete.

Whether or not Goodale did the right thing is a separate question, and you are just speculating, based on nothing, that our head coach violated one of the most basic rules in the rule book. I don't think anyone is that dumb. This stuff is always done through intermediaries.

Cale has nothing to do with a waiver. That only concerns the B1G, and it's rarely done. Only true hardship or a grad transfer, which this is neither. There is no waiver for Cael to sign. Here is the rule that was changed to allow aid to be given to the transfer student, with a one year waiting period. It is the rule, and Cael can do nothing about it. The article from NJ is ridiculous, as is Bilas going after Penn State. Cael granted his release, and he's out if it.

http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas.../58173/big-ten-makes-changes-to-transfer-rule

 

[Hotshoe]

Wait, whoa, what is this? Rutgers didn't grant a full release of Tom Savage? Oh, the humanity! Or, the double-standard. Whichever.

https://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footb...om-savage-transfer-rutgers-miami-greg-schiano

Well you know, details. Oh the humanity.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Lol. You think Franklin paid Vandy and that wasnt part of the negotiation with Penn State? You think these coaches just pay out of pocket and its not part of the new school's compensation package.

Oh boy. That sums up why you dont understand this.

I sure it was part of Franklin's deal but it still was a cost. If Franklin didn't have that paid for he probably could have gotten higher salary or another perk. The point remains that he knew going in that this was the terms when he went to Penn State. Did Franklin expect Vanderbilt to say nah we won't collect because you will be happier there. If Suriano didn't like B1G transfer rules then he shouldn't have gone to a B1G school. Why should he get special privileges? Others have sat out what make him special?

 

[wngarbarini]

Cael did not grant a waiver to the Big Ten Committee as HE COULD HAVE. PSU's position is that they would not grant the waiver only a release to have him go to RU. If PSU DID grant a waiver, the committee could still deny NS the waiver but having PSU bless the waiver makes it more probable. Cael's and PSU's motive for not granting it are obvious so no debate is necessary. They either want NS to go out of the Big Ten or go to RU and only have 2 years left to wrestle.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Could one of you Rutgers fans provide us some sort of verification that Big10 officials have even asked for Cael's opinion on them granting a Suriano waiver of the transfer rules? You all seem to be emphatic that is is now about what Cael provides the committee. Could you give us an example of what form Cael needs to sign off on to help Nick out.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Cael did not grant a waiver to the Big Ten Committee as HE COULD HAVE. PSU's position is that they would not grant the waiver only a release to have him go to RU. If PSU DID grant a waiver, the committee could still deny NS the waiver but having PSU bless the waiver makes it more probable. Cael's and PSU's motive for not granting it are obvious so no debate is necessary. They either want NS to go out of the Big Ten or go to RU and only have 2 years left to wrestle.

PSU CANNOT GRANT THE WAIVER. The waiver is a B1G thing, not a PSU thing.

Besides that, if Nick needs Cael to go to bat for him, he must realize that his reasons for wanting to go back to NJ are weak.

 

[Hotshoe]

Cael did not grant a waiver to the Big Ten Committee as HE COULD HAVE. PSU's position is that they would not grant the waiver only a release to have him go to RU. If PSU DID grant a waiver, the committee could still deny NS the waiver but having PSU bless the waiver makes it more probable. Cael's and PSU's motive for not granting it are obvious so no debate is necessary. They either want NS to go out of the Big Ten or go to RU and only have 2 years left to wrestle.

There is no waiver for Cael to grant. I don't even know where you get this stuff. The B1G grants the waiver, not Cael. That is a fact. It is the rule of the B1G, not Cael Sanderson's rule. It is up to Nick and Rutgers to petition the B1G. That's how it works.

 

[johnstownsteel]

There is no waiver for Cael to grant. I don't even know where you get this stuff. The B1G grants the waiver, not Cael. That is a fact. It is the rule of the B1G, not Cael Sanderson's rule. It is up to Nick and Rutgers to petition the B1G. That's how it works.

If there's no waiver for Cael to grant then that's just stupid. The Big10 needs to allow its coaches to decide on which rival schools they will allow their kids to transfer to. Penn State allowing Nick to transfer to Rutgers but not Iowa should be their decision not some league transfer committee...

 

[Hotshoe]

If there's no waiver for Cael to grant then that's just stupid. The Big10 needs to allow its coaches to decide on which rival schools they will allow their kids to transfer to. Penn State allowing Nick to transfer to Rutgers but not Iowa should be their decision not some league transfer committee...

Cael can't make his own rules up. Only the B1G grants the waiver. It's a good rule and prevents top dogs from poaching to fill a hole. Which, btw, Cael could do right now to another B1G school, if the rule wasn't in effect. He could simply replace Nick, and hurt another team.

 

[R U Crazy]

On another forum, it was reported that PSU only granted a release for NS to Rutgers and no other school. NO idea if this is true or not.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

If you guys think the agreement of PSU to waive the rule would have no impact on the determination of the Big Ten committee, I've got a bridge to sell you. Of course PSU's stating they have no objection to the rule being waived would carry weight.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

If you guys think the agreement of PSU to waive the rule would have no impact on the determination of the Big Ten committee, I've got a bridge to sell you. Of course PSU's stating they have no objection to the rule being waived would carry weight.

And yet no one can come up with an example.

 

[Hotshoe]

If you guys think the agreement of PSU to waive the rule would have no impact on the determination of the Big Ten committee, I've got a bridge to sell you. Of course PSU's stating they have no objection to the rule being waived would carry weight.

I showed you the rule, and now you say Cael can have an impact. Yet earlier you kept stating about Cael granting the waiver. The rule is the rule. Cael has no say in the rule. It's a good rule, and everyone knew it going in. Cael could go and poach a wrestler right now without this rule. No one gave a damn when Cortez had to sit, and no PSU's complained, it was and is the same rule.

 

[johnstownsteel]

If you guys think the agreement of PSU to waive the rule would have no impact on the determination of the Big Ten committee, I've got a bridge to sell you. Of course PSU's stating they have no objection to the rule being waived would carry weight.

Why should Cael have the only say so in waiving the rule? Why shouldn't every other coach in the league get an opinion since the transfer could affect their squad or wrestler in an individual bracket or a team race. Shouldn't all other coaches have their opinion heard on this made up fantasy Cael blessing?

 

[johnstownsteel]

Cael can't make his own rules up. Only the B1G grants the waiver. It's a good rule and prevents top dogs from poaching to fill a hole. Which, btw, Cael could do right now to another B1G school, if the rule wasn't in effect. He could simply replace Nick, and hurt another team.

Lol. I was being sarcastic.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I showed you the rule, and now you say Cael can have an impact. Yet earlier you kept stating about Cael granting the waiver. The rule is the rule. Cael has no say in the rule. It's a good rule, and everyone knew it going in. Cael could go and poach a wrestler right now without this rule. No one gave a damn when Cortez had to sit, and no PSU's complained, it was and is the same rule.

Actually, Cael couldn't go and poach a wrestler, because NCAA doesn't allow the contact. So, that might be the solution to this whole thing. If you change this rule to allow penalty-free transfers, then no AD will ever again issue a permission-to-contact release. That'd be great for the athlete.

 

[Hotshoe]

Actually, Cael couldn't go and poach a wrestler, because NCAA doesn't allow the contact. So, that might be the solution to this whole thing. If you change this rule to allow penalty-free transfers, then no AD will ever again issue a permission-to-contact release. That'd be great for the athlete.

Yes, but you know that's easy to get around.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Yes, but you know that's easy to get around.

Current case in point. You use intermediaries, apparently.

 

[El-Jefe]

I am saying that NS probably had someone approach our staff about transferring. The contact would not have been initiated by RU. I have no idea what actually happened in this particular situation, but that is how its always done.

Just to clarify, not taking a position on what happened:

Who initiated transfer discussions is secondary at most (matters only if the proxy fit under the NCAA definition of a booster, which is broad but not all encompassing).

What matters is timing vs. the authorization letter. If contact were made prior to that letter, RU is obliged to say we can't talk without the letter.

IDK if RU would be obligated to notify PSU if Team Nick initiated contact prior to that letter. But that would be the right thing to do, ethically since Nick was under contract with PSU, and also to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

 

[CowboyUp61]

my thoughts on this whole thread;

 

[pawrestlersintn]

my thoughts on this whole thread;

Yeah, you know when it starts out by attacking the character of one of the sports greatest athletes, coaches and advocates, you know it only has one direction to go.

 

[BigLou]

Why would anyone want to do that? Here's the applicable rule:

2. Post Matriculation. A student-athlete that has signed a tender from a Conference institution and has triggered transfer status per NCAA Bylaw 14.5.2 (conditions affecting transfer status), may not represent an alternate Big Ten institution in intercollegiate athletics competition until the individual has completed one (1) full academic year of residence at the alternate (i.e.,
certifying) Big Ten institution and shall be charged with the loss of one (1) season of eligibility in all sports.

You have to try to be confused about this rule. It's absolutely clear. If you don't like it, you don't sign on with a B1G school - or you don't try to transfer to another B1G school unless you are willing to lose the year.

I seriously doubt that any college athlete lucky enough to get a scholarship offer from a Big Ten school chose not to accept that scholarship because by doing so, he/she would be prohibited from transferring to another Big Ten school.
This rule is the fine print that you don't read when signing up for just about anything these days. It was not part of the decision process. These student athletes accept a scholarship expecting to spend their entire career at one school. The argument that NS knew the rule so he should shut up and live by it is weak.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I seriously doubt that any college athlete lucky enough to get a scholarship offer from a Big Ten school chose not to accept that scholarship because by doing so, he/she would be prohibited from transferring to another Big Ten school.
This rule is the fine print that you don't read when signing up for just about anything these days. It was not part of the decision process. These student athletes accept a scholarship expecting to spend their entire career at one school. The argument that NS knew the rule so he should shut up and live by it is weak.

So, are you not held to account for the fine print? Hell, let's just get rid of all the rules, then.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Wow. You guys are really hell bent on going through the necessary ruminations toturn this into the 35 page disaster you have on your board. Its really not that difficult. Not sure how many times the same thing can be said. I guess you have a lot of practice after the whole Paterno scandal.....figuring out how to exercise your technicalities and suppositions.

And yet no one can come up with an example.

Correct. No one has an example. All we know is that the rule has been waived in the past when a coaching change occurred. No published criteria or process for getting a waiver.

I showed you the rule, and now you say Cael can have an impact. Yet earlier you kept stating about Cael granting the waiver. The rule is the rule. Cael has no say in the rule. It's a good rule, and everyone knew it going in. Cael could go and poach a wrestler right now without this rule. No one gave a damn when Cortez had to sit, and no PSU's complained, it was and is the same rule.

My assumption is that when the Big Ten decides whether or not to grant a waiver, they would consider whether the school the player was leaving objects, or if they have said it's okay. My assumption is based on the fact that in any legal setting - court, arbitration, meditation, etc - the agreement of the parties will carry weight. THis is true even when the law or rule doesn't always support the requested relief.

You are free to assume the Big Ten would not care one way or another if Cael gave his blessing or not. That's your prerogative. It would probably be a popular point of view on BWI. You should go there.

Why should Cael have the only say so in waiving the rule? Why shouldn't every other coach in the league get an opinion since the transfer could affect their squad or wrestler in an individual bracket or a team race. Shouldn't all other coaches have their opinion heard on this made up fantasy Cael blessing?

As far as I have seen, no one ever said Cael had any say on waiving the Big Ten rule. I think we are all pretty clear it is a conference thing. All I have said is that if Cael said he had no problem with the rule being waived, the Big Ten would likely consider that in making a decision. Again, you are free to disagree and believe that the Big Ten wouldn't care if Cael had said it was okay.

 

[dollarbill]

I'll be sure not to ask the question when I travel over there tomorrow, particularly not in the back of any dimly lit restaurants with a bunch of Italian food being served.

Just make sure you make it to our gym on Jan. 28th. Bring a few thousand friends. We need the money. Cash is the preferred method of payment at our box office. See you there. $$$$

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Yeah, you know when it starts out by attacking the character of one of the sports greatest athletes, coaches and advocates, you know it only has one direction to go.

Cael is even more popular on the BWI board. You should go there and check it out.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Just make sure you make it to our gym on Jan. 28th. Bring a few thousand friends. We need the money. Cash is the preferred method of payment at our box office. See you there. $$$$

I'll be there. I'm assuming I can just walk up and buy a ticket?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I'll be there. I'm assuming I can just walk up and buy a ticket?

ZING! This would hurt worse if we weren't 5th in total attendance, and growing every year. The RAC also holds 8,000 compared to 6,500 for Rec Hall.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

ZING! This would hurt worse if we weren't 5th in total attendance, and growing every year. The RAC also holds 8,000 compared to 6,500 for Rec Hall.

Glad that didn't go over your head. With the schedule you have, your attendance should be really good again this year.

 

[BigLou]

So, are you not held to account for the fine print? Hell, let's just get rid of all the rules, then.

The point is its a one way street, The student athlete has no negotiating power its take it or leave it. I'm sure other athletes thought it was a stupid rule.

In a sport where transfers do not have to sit out, the Big Ten rule should be modified to "sit a year with no loss of eligibility (unless you have already red shirted)"

 

[KidDagger]

Just because the team is not a contender, does not mean that Suriano might not have a huge impact on the B1G team race. You think him being in the 125 or 133 bracket won't affect how that bracket works out? Penn State will be in a dogfight with Ohio State, and Nick Suriano could influence that outcome. Individual sport with a team component is much different than a team sport.

Yeah suriano could actually help out psu by taking away pts from osu, Ohio st etc who arguably have stronger 125/33 then PSU's.. hence Suriano would influence the outcome in ur favor most likely.. make sense ?? So Cael, do the right thing and help the student athlete over ur ego

 

[pawrestlersintn]

The point is its a one way street, The student athlete has no negotiating power its take it or leave it. I'm sure other athletes thought it was a stupid rule.

In a sport where transfers do not have to sit out, the Big Ten rule should be modified to "sit a year with no loss of eligibility (unless you have already red shirted)"

So, your problem is with the rule, then. Problem is you guys are hating the player, where you should be hating the game. You don't like the rule? Change the rule. Of course, I didn't see most of you guys arguing about this rule, until it might prevent you from getting a stud. Funny thing is, you didn't see a bunch of guys on the PSU sites whining about the Cortez situation.