OOC is just about set, per Carino

[Russ Wood]

You guys know with our weak out of conference schedule last year we were still #31 I'm SOS according to KenPom. That's where we should be.

I think you are misinterpreting that. It isn't a SOS rak. According to Kenpom: AdjEM is the difference between a team’s offensive and defensive efficiency. It’s simple subtraction. Even your dog can do it. It represents the number of points the team would be expected to outscore the average D-I team over 100 possessions.

I believe that Rutgers' overall SOS last season was 75.

 

[kcg88]

I think you are misinterpreting that. It isn't a SOS rak. According to Kenpom: AdjEM is the difference between a team’s offensive and defensive efficiency. It’s simple subtraction. Even your dog can do it. It represents the number of points the team would be expected to outscore the average D-I team over 100 possessions.

I believe that Rutgers' overall SOS last season was 75.

It was 31 on KenPom but it was the result of a very strong Big Ten.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I think you are misinterpreting that. It isn't a SOS rak. According to Kenpom: AdjEM is the difference between a team’s offensive and defensive efficiency. It’s simple subtraction. Even your dog can do it. It represents the number of points the team would be expected to outscore the average D-I team over 100 possessions.

I believe that Rutgers' overall SOS last season was 75.

You saved me the post, by adding this correction or detail....we have beat writers credited as experts in our region or state that in their attempt to appear neutral, provide consistently wrong information trying to make a point about scheduling....as if they have any expertise or awareness of mid-majors, transfers in or out for all of these programs.

 

[kcg88]

Oh my god, everyone here is so damn dramatic. A couple things to keep in mind here, one we have 20 conference games. Second, South Carolina removed us last minute. Third, we got the boot from the Gavitt games again. Not our fault. Our SOS at the end of the year will be fine.

1. Yes, this helps but does not cure everything.

2. South Carolina and St. Bonaventure are projected to be roughly equal. Quad 2 either way.

3. We had played three Gavitt Games while lots of other conference teams only had two. Wasn't that hard to figure we'd be left out.

I looked at the Johnnies schedule last year. Wagner, Sacred Heart,Maryland Eastern Shore and loyola. Mount St. Mary and a California team that finished like 243 in Kenpom. Yes they played Duke. They made tourney. Also played St Francis of Brooklyn.

St. John's was a controversial selection to the tournament and their name carries them a lot further than it should. Rutgers does not have that luxury.

 

[Chanticleer108]

Dominate OOC first then we will talk about upgrading the schedule. *Ahem* Fordham and Stony Brook...

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It was 31 on KenPom but it was the result of a very strong Big Ten.

The OOC schedule item is as overblown a thing as I've seen in any sport. It's clear on whether a team over 30 to 32 or so games, warrants a bid, based on their league, their results in their league, the quality of the wins and measuring things from start to finish....90% of Power 5 games outside of the stupid Pac 12, are on a major satellite network.

No bubble team goes without 2 to 3 "bad or inexcuseable" losses, which every team in this process has on their slate. There are no perfect resumes, yet we keep seeing schedule becoming an issue, when RU is going to have 2 or 3 hiccups and 2 or 3 statement games......it's the other 14 to 15 games that will tell the development and story.....

This isn't college football where there are 130 or so teams and it's almost impossible to not see a team on TV over 12 games on a Saturday....in college football, with 12 games, yes you can have a legitimate schedule or strength of schedule discussion.....in college basketball, it's severely overhyped and overblown to comedy levels at this point....you have over 320 CBB programs and some don't even make it onto TV, once, yet fans are basing things on players they've never seen or watched play before.....and writers who can't even distinguish Kenpom from Strength of Schedule.

If fans want to get sucked into the hype machine of college basketball beat writers manufacturing stories in mid November or early December, great, knock yourself out.....every sport is fighting for viewers, fighting for clicks, fighting for reasons why you should pay attention to something you cannot even see...., No one here truly knows what Stephen F Austin's roster make up was last year or this coming season.....I can't name their coach, or the coach for 50% of the mid majors on OOC schedules for teams in November or December....

The important items to me are continuing to add talent in recruiting in 2020, improve the roster this summer, get the players into a mode of playing with expectations for the first time in over a decade....

 

[Scangg]

What would 6-5 5-15 11-20 do to the fanbase and the progress of our basketball program?

It is great having a tough out of conference schedule until you lose the games on it.

An 11-12 win season would be a huge blow to the program. I know at some point you need to go for it. I realize this is not the schedule you make if you are a post season team. I have said this is a rebuilding year and next year may be a better target for postseason. Maybe the schedule had that theme.

Sooo you have us down for 5 B1G wins? Or are you somehow implying that if we played a harder OOC schedule that it would negatively impact our ability to win in the B1G schedule? Orrr you're just making up an unlikely scenario and using that as justification to prove a point? Whatever the "logic" here completely disagree

The realistic goal must be a winning record this season.A easy out of conference schedule is part of the process to achieve the objective and end the embarrassment of consecutive losing seasons.A 20 game B1G schedule affords very few sure wins for Rutgers.This season should be viewed as a transition from losing to winning with the possibility of a NIT bid.

Winning season should have been the goal last season. This season that is way too low of a bar especially with the weak OOC schedule this season. We could win less games in the B1G and still finish over .500. if we finish one game over .500 this season will have been a disappointment. It's time to start raising the bar and raising expectations. A goal is something to strive for it shouldn't be something easily attainable and expected

 

[seels2662]

Why aren't people listening to kyk here. If we were in the SEC with an 18 game conference schedule and had an OOC that included at Pitt, home to Wisconsin, at Penn State, home to SHU would be talking about the aggressive scheduling. The extra two conference games makes a big difference.

 

[kcg88]

"Look at who other Big Ten teams are playing."

Okay, let's do that.

Putting aside ACC/B1G Challenge and Gavitt Games, here are who other Big Ten schools are playing:

Penn State: They're in the NIT Tip-Off with a game against Ole Miss and then either Oklahoma State or Syracuse. They also play Alabama.

Wisconsin: They start off the year with St. Mary's. They play Marquette in a rivalry game. They're in the Legends Classic against Richmond and will likely play Auburn in the next round. They also play at Tennessee.

Michigan: They're in the Battle 4 Atlantis and will play at least 2 and most likely 3 quality opponents. They also play Oregon.

Purdue: They play Texas. They face VCU in a tournament and then either Tennessee or Florida State in the next round. They play Butler in a rivalry game.

Nebraska: They're in the Cayman Islands Classic where they'll get two games against St. Bonaventure-level opponents. They play Creighton in a rivalry game.

Those are the teams that have released their full schedule. Partials:

Illinois has a game scheduled against Arizona.

Indiana faces UConn and Notre Dame.

Iowa is facing Creighton, Texas Tech OR San Diego State, Iowa State, and Cincinnati.

Maryland is facing Seton Hall, Temple, and most likely Texas A&M.

Michigan State is facing Kentucky and they're playing in Maui.

Minnesota is facing Oklahoma, Utah, and Oklahoma State.

Northwestern is in the Fort Myers tip-off and will face Kansas State or Pittsburgh. They also play DePaul.

Ohio State is facing Cincinnati, Kentucky, and West Virginia.

...........................................


So basically every other team is facing 3 or more power-conference or equivalent opponents PLUS an ACC team and in some cases a Big East game. The teams that aren't doing this are Nebraska and Northwestern, and NW might still add more. Nebraska scheduling easy makes sense with a new coach and a new roster. I'd like to think our expectations are higher than the Huskers'.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Our over under will probably be 5.5 wins.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No one wants to talk about how we finished the last games. The Nebraska game?

Take the 3 games Eugene was out and take the last 3 games he was really hobbled and we were a 3-4 win type team.

My thesis going in to the year is that Eugene was crushing loss. Doesn’t mean that given ample time and replacements we can’t replace him. To me the entire roster and upcoming season is a huge unknown.

 

[Russ Wood]

Why aren't people listening to kyk here. If we were in the SEC with an 18 game conference schedule and had an OOC that included at Pitt, home to Wisconsin, at Penn State, home to SHU would be talking about the aggressive scheduling. The extra two conference games makes a big difference.

If you were in the SEC you would not be allowed to schedule a non-conference game against a team that has a three-year average RPI worse than 175.

So your non-conference schedule would definitely be more challenging then what Rutgers has scheduled for the upcoming season.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

"Look at who other Big Ten teams are playing."

Okay, let's do that.

Putting aside ACC/B1G Challenge and Gavitt Games, here are who other Big Ten schools are playing:

Penn State: They're in the NIT Tip-Off with a game against Ole Miss and then either Oklahoma State or Syracuse. They also play Alabama.

Wisconsin: They start off the year with St. Mary's. They play Marquette in a rivalry game. They're in the Legends Classic against Richmond and will likely play Auburn in the next round. They also play at Tennessee.

Michigan: They're in the Battle 4 Atlantis and will play at least 2 and most likely 3 quality opponents. They also play Oregon.

Purdue: They play Texas. They face VCU in a tournament and then either Tennessee or Florida State in the next round. They play Butler in a rivalry game.

Nebraska: They're in the Cayman Islands Classic where they'll get two games against St. Bonaventure-level opponents. They play Creighton in a rivalry game.

Those are the teams that have released their full schedule. Partials:

Illinois has a game scheduled against Arizona.

Indiana faces UConn and Notre Dame.

Iowa is facing Creighton, Texas Tech OR San Diego State, Iowa State, and Cincinnati.

Maryland is facing Seton Hall, Temple, and most likely Texas A&M.

Michigan State is facing Kentucky and they're playing in Maui.

Minnesota is facing Oklahoma, Utah, and Oklahoma State.

Northwestern is in the Fort Myers tip-off and will face Kansas State or Pittsburgh. They also play DePaul.

Ohio State is facing Cincinnati, Kentucky, and West Virginia.

...........................................


So basically every other team is facing 3 or more power-conference or equivalent opponents PLUS an ACC team and in some cases a Big East game. The teams that aren't doing this are Nebraska and Northwestern, and NW might still add more. Nebraska scheduling easy makes sense with a new coach and a new roster. I'd like to think our expectations are higher than the Huskers'.

I think you proved the point on how unimportant this is....RU at Pitt, playing Seton Hall and neutral vs St Bonaventure is fine compared to most of what's listed above.

Here are the schools that landed on about half of the B1G schools last year, as if no one else has games that are automatically scheduled for wins or getting players acclimated to each other.

Mississippi Valley State
Florida Atlantic
SE Louisiana
Western Illinois
Cal state Fullerton
SW Missouri state
Nebraska-Omaha
Northern Florida
NC A&T
Mount St. Marys
American
Binghamton
Lasalle
Depaul
Chicago State
Columbia
UMKC
Western Carolina
Bryant
Colgate
Duquesne
UMBC

Given that at least half of the B1G schools have some of these schools on their slate, what exactly is the concern with at Pitt, Seton Hall, and St Bona or South Carolina.

South Carolina vs Bonaventure is a huge difference in quality of opponent and impact to SOS....st Bonaventure would have to win the A-10 to match where SC would be in a normal season.

 

[Groz]

Is it weak? Sure. But you can add 2 big ten teams to the ooc schedule since we play 20 league games when no other league does.

What this does though is magnify the importance of the SHU game. U wanna dance? Gotta win games like bonny’s, pitt and shu

We have had a weak out of conference schedule forever, and our fans get to see so many crap teams at home. For most of the past 20 years, each of our coaches have been afraid to up the schedule(always saying that our conference schedule is so tough).

I wish we once had the guts to do what Calipari did at UMASS while building their program. He took on any team, anywhere, at any time. If TV asked for them to be on at 6am, he took the game against really good teams.

If we are good, there is a decent chance we could beat a top team(especially at home). Now, by playing a crappy OOC schedule again, it makes the players think we are better than we actually are. We should be playing AT LEAST 1-2 much tougher teams OOC. Now if we are good and stumble against this crap OOC schedule, we would probably miss out on the NCAA's, even if we are borderline and our fans will be crushed.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

We have had a weak out of conference schedule forever, and our fans get to see so many crap teams at home. For most of the past 20 years, each of our coaches have been afraid to up the schedule(always saying that our conference schedule is so tough).

I wish we once had the guts to do what Calipari did at UMASS while building their program. He took on any team, anywhere, at any time. If TV asked for them to be on at 6am, he took the game against really good teams.

If we are good, there is a decent chance we could beat a top team(especially at home). Now, by playing a crappy OOC schedule again, it makes the players think we are better than we actually are. We should be playing AT LEAST 1-2 much tougher teams OOC. Now if we are good and stumble against this crap OOC schedule, we would probably miss out on the NCAA's, even if we are borderline and our fans will be crushed.

Best of Luck,
Groz

Last year with a weak OOC sched we still had the 30th toughest schedule in america

 

[Russ Wood]

"Look at who other Big Ten teams are playing."

Okay, let's do that.

Putting aside ACC/B1G Challenge and Gavitt Games, here are who other Big Ten schools are playing:

Penn State: They're in the NIT Tip-Off with a game against Ole Miss and then either Oklahoma State or Syracuse. They also play Alabama.

Wisconsin: They start off the year with St. Mary's. They play Marquette in a rivalry game. They're in the Legends Classic against Richmond and will likely play Auburn in the next round. They also play at Tennessee.

Michigan: They're in the Battle 4 Atlantis and will play at least 2 and most likely 3 quality opponents. They also play Oregon.

Purdue: They play Texas. They face VCU in a tournament and then either Tennessee or Florida State in the next round. They play Butler in a rivalry game.

Nebraska: They're in the Cayman Islands Classic where they'll get two games against St. Bonaventure-level opponents. They play Creighton in a rivalry game.

Those are the teams that have released their full schedule. Partials:

Illinois has a game scheduled against Arizona.

Indiana faces UConn and Notre Dame.

Iowa is facing Creighton, Texas Tech OR San Diego State, Iowa State, and Cincinnati.

Maryland is facing Seton Hall, Temple, and most likely Texas A&M.

Michigan State is facing Kentucky and they're playing in Maui.

Minnesota is facing Oklahoma, Utah, and Oklahoma State.

Northwestern is in the Fort Myers tip-off and will face Kansas State or Pittsburgh. They also play DePaul.

Ohio State is facing Cincinnati, Kentucky, and West Virginia.

...........................................


So basically every other team is facing 3 or more power-conference or equivalent opponents PLUS an ACC team and in some cases a Big East game. The teams that aren't doing this are Nebraska and Northwestern, and NW might still add more. Nebraska scheduling easy makes sense with a new coach and a new roster. I'd like to think our expectations are higher than the Huskers'.

For a experienced team with its talent Maryland's schedule sucks. The Temple game is part of the Advocare Invitational. So is a potential TAMU game. Seton Hall is the only real challenging opponent Maryland scheduled.

Maryland's Arena holds almost 18,000 people but it won't be sold out for any of its non-conference games due to the schedule their coach put together.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

So would anyone be shocked to see us run the table is ooc play? Schedule below

Thursday, Nov. 7 vs. Bryant (10-20, Kenpom 327)

Sunday, Nov. 10 vs. Niagara (13-19, Kenpom 315)

Wednesday, Nov. 13 vs. Drexel (13-19, Kenpom 251)

Saturday, Nov. 16 vs. St. Bonaventure in Toronto (18-16, Kenpom 121)

Wednesday, Nov. 20 vs. Stephen F. Austin (14-16, Kenpom 311)

Tuesday, Nov. 26 vs. NJIT (22-13, Kenpom 183)

Friday, Nov. 29 vs. UMass (11-21, Kenpom 236)

Tuesday, Dec. 3 at Pittsburgh (14-19, Kenpom 101)

Saturday, Dec. 14 vs. Seton Hall (20-14, Kenpom 60)

Sunday, Dec. 22 vs. Lafayette (10-20, Kenpom 298)

Monday, Dec. 30 vs. Caldwell (17-12 in Division II)

I actually think we are a nightmare matchup for SHU theyre gonna have a lot of trouble with us. I think we’ll be favored in that game. The only game I think we wont be favored in is @pitt where i expect us to be about 2-3 point dogs.

So lets say our two pre 1/1 Big Ten games we split and go 1-1. We’d be entering the new year 12-1, the hype around the program despite the opponents being ehhh would be sky high and the RAC would absolutely ROCK for all of big ten play and perhaps propel the squad to 22+ wins as people will feel the tourney is realistic and within reach. This could shake out really well

 

[soundcrib]

Win every game.

 

[RUChoppin]

If you were in the SEC you would not be allowed to schedule a non-conference game against a team that has a three-year average RPI worse than 175.

Is this still in effect? Because it doesn't seem to have been in place for last season.

SE tournament champ Auburn had Mississippi College (D-II) on their schedule. SEC regular season champ LSU had SE Louisiana (3 year average of 245) and Grambling (305).

 

[HeavenUniv.]

I know the first game of the year is usually against Phillips 66 or the Klingon Empire team, but have we announced who the first regular season home game will be?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

2 - WTF with Caldwell?

I don’t know why this game was scheduled, however since it is on the schedule I would hope RU and Caldwell take the time to honor former RU Director of Basketball operations Dennis Gregory who I believe became assistant AD at Caldwell before passing away. It would be a classy gesture on both schools part.

 

[Groz]

Last year with a weak OOC sched we still had the 30th toughest schedule in america

You know that is because of being in the Big Ten.

With us being in the Big Ten, I would actually like to add 1 or 2 tough out of conference teams(SEC, Pac12, etc) to the schedule that we have and then we would have maybe the 10th-15th toughest schedule, that would almost guarantee that we make the NCAA tournament if we are .500 or better in the conference. Going 19-13 with our schedule will probably not get it done(see Penn State and Nebraska 2 years ago).

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[kcg88]

I think you proved the point on how unimportant this is....RU at Pitt, playing Seton Hall and neutral vs St Bonaventure is fine compared to most of what's listed above.

Here are the schools that landed on about half of the B1G schools last year, as if no one else has games that are automatically scheduled for wins or getting players acclimated to each other.

Mississippi Valley State
Florida Atlantic
SE Louisiana
Western Illinois
Cal state Fullerton
SW Missouri state
Nebraska-Omaha
Northern Florida
NC A&T
Mount St. Marys
American
Binghamton
Lasalle
Depaul
Chicago State
Columbia
UMKC
Western Carolina
Bryant
Colgate
Duquesne
UMBC

Given that at least half of the B1G schools have some of these schools on their slate, what exactly is the concern with at Pitt, Seton Hall, and St Bona or South Carolina.

South Carolina vs Bonaventure is a huge difference in quality of opponent and impact to SOS....st Bonaventure would have to win the A-10 to match where SC would be in a normal season.

I mean... no? South Carolina finished 79th in the NET, St. Bonaventure finished 118. Given that Bona is expected to improve and SCar is expected to be worse, they should end up about equal.

Pitt, Seton Hall, and Bona might sound equal to what I posted but I didn't include other teams' ACC or Big East games. So add another game or two to everybody's.

Put another way, average KenPom/NET of all fully available non-conference schedules: (Counting Caldwell as #325 which is generous)

Rutgers: 230/225
Penn State: 173/160
Wisconsin: 151/150
Michigan: 132/139
Purdue: 104/104
Nebraska: 209/210

So there you go. We've scheduled weaker than a team who replaced nearly every scholarship player along with their coach.

Other Big Ten schools certainly have patsies like Chicago State and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi on the schedule. But on the whole they've balanced it out with stronger games.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

You know that is because of being in the Big Ten.

With us being in the Big Ten, I would actually like to add 1 or 2 tough out of conference teams(SEC, Pac12, etc) to the schedule that we have and then we would have maybe the 10th-15th toughest schedule, that would almost guarantee that we make the NCAA tournament if we are .500 or better in the conference. Going 19-13 with our schedule will probably not get it done(see Penn State and Nebraska 2 years ago).

Best of Luck,
Groz

The Penn State and Nebraska thing is 100% false....they played no one in league to get those wins....it keeps coming up and it keeps getting shown that their league wins were not against anyone in the Top 5 of the league.

Penn State beat Ohio State 3 times.

Nebraska had 1 ranked win in the entire B1G slate, beating Michigan at home by 20.....they were not competitive when they played the teams that made the NCAA's from the B1G.

The 19-13 slate in this years B1G, will be squarely on the bubble, because the league 4 out of 5 or 5 out of 6 years gets 6 to 7 teams in the Dance....talking about the 1 year when the league dropped to 4 or 5 teams is false to explain what the schedule should look like....The B1G crushed it last year and in rounds 1 and 2, was as dominant as any league in the NCAA.

RU will have to do one thing that has nothing to do with OOC.....be more competitive in more league games that were losses and win a couple of more games against some teams ahead of them in the standings. That is the formula....this OOC is a non factor.....beat Michigan at MSG, uoset a couple of teams at a full RAC, handle Seton Hall, and avoid more than 4 blowouts on the road in the league....that's what will get it done.

 

[Groz]

The Penn State and Nebraska thing is 100% false....they played no one in league to get those wins....it keeps coming up and it keeps getting shown that their league wins were not against anyone in the Top 5 of the league.

Penn State beat Ohio State 3 times.

Nebraska had 1 ranked win in the entire B1G slate, beating Michigan at home by 20.....they were not competitive when they played the teams that made the NCAA's from the B1G.

The 19-13 slate in this years B1G, will be squarely on the bubble, because the league 4 out of 5 or 5 out of 6 years gets 6 to 7 teams in the Dance....talking about the 1 year when the league dropped to 4 or 5 teams is false to explain what the schedule should look like....The B1G crushed it last year and in rounds 1 and 2, was as dominant as any league in the NCAA.

RU will have to do one thing that has nothing to do with OOC.....be more competitive in more league games that were losses and win a couple of more games against some teams ahead of them in the standings. That is the formula....this OOC is a non factor.....beat Michigan at MSG, uoset a couple of teams at a full RAC, handle Seton Hall, and avoid more than 4 blowouts on the road in the league....that's what will get it done.

Just because you keep repeating the same thing about Penn State and Nebraska does not make it right. How about you might be wrong? Both of them were VERY good teams that year. They don't make the schedule for the Big Ten. The same thing could happen to us this year if we beat teams that "fall off" for some reason in the Big 10.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Scangg]

Our over under will probably be 5.5 wins.

So you think we end up what with maybe 15 wins? You're pretty down on the team next year it seems

 

[Mr Magoo]

The Penn State and Nebraska thing is 100% false....they played no one in league to get those wins....it keeps coming up and it keeps getting shown that their league wins were not against anyone in the Top 5 of the league.

Penn State beat Ohio State 3 times.

Nebraska had 1 ranked win in the entire B1G slate, beating Michigan at home by 20.....they were not competitive when they played the teams that made the NCAA's from the B1G.

The 19-13 slate in this years B1G, will be squarely on the bubble, because the league 4 out of 5 or 5 out of 6 years gets 6 to 7 teams in the Dance....talking about the 1 year when the league dropped to 4 or 5 teams is false to explain what the schedule should look like....The B1G crushed it last year and in rounds 1 and 2, was as dominant as any league in the NCAA.

RU will have to do one thing that has nothing to do with OOC.....be more competitive in more league games that were losses and win a couple of more games against some teams ahead of them in the standings. That is the formula....this OOC is a non factor.....beat Michigan at MSG, uoset a couple of teams at a full RAC, handle Seton Hall, and avoid more than 4 blowouts on the road in the league....that's what will get it done.

I can’t see how 19-13 with this OOC schedule gets us on the bubble. 19-13 means we probably went around 9-2 OOC and 10-10 in league. Honestly, I can’t see either happening anyway and aside from Michigan State, I think the league will be weaker this year. 19-13 probably gets us an NIT bid.

 

[Russ Wood]

Is this still in effect? Because it doesn't seem to have been in place for last season.

SE tournament champ Auburn had Mississippi College (D-II) on their schedule. SEC regular season champ LSU had SE Louisiana (3 year average of 245) and Grambling (305).

A head coach told me that was a conference rule. He was not happy about it because he reached a verbal agreement for a home-and-home with two SEC coaches only for both series to fall apart.

 

[Russ Wood]

Just because you keep repeating the same thing about Penn State and Nebraska does not make it right. How about you might be wrong? Both of them were VERY good teams that year. They don't make the schedule for the Big Ten. The same thing could happen to us this year if we beat teams that "fall off" for some reason in the Big 10.

Best of Luck,
Groz

Nebraska and PSU were good teams, and they don't make their B1G schedule but, when they played the top teams in the B1G that season they lost. With the exception of PSU defeating tOSU 3 times.

PSU ended the season losing to Purdue, Michigan and Nebraska. They were perfect for the NIT.

Nebraska had a nice OOC that year. They almost beat Kansas (win that game & they're in the NCAAT) the UCF loss hurt & they looked hideous at St. John's.

 

[Groz]

Nebraska and PSU were good teams, and they don't make their B1G schedule but, when they played the top teams in the B1G that season they lost. With the exception of PSU defeating tOSU 3 times.

PSU ended the season losing to Purdue, Michigan and Nebraska. They were perfect for the NIT.

Nebraska had a nice OOC that year. They almost beat Kansas (win that game & they're in the NCAAT) the UCF loss hurt & they looked hideous at St. John's.

Didn't Michigan play in the FINAL of the NCAA that year and won the Big tournament? Wasn't Purdue a top 3 team until the big guy got hurt? Many people thought they could win it all.

All I am saying is that if the Rutgers played the way Penn State did that year and did not make it, our fans would be going crazy.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Russ Wood]

Didn't Michigan play in the FINAL of the NCAA that year and won the Big tournament? Wasn't Purdue a top 3 team until the big guy got hurt? Many people thought they could win it all.

All I am saying is that if the Rutgers played the way Penn State did that year and did not make it, our fans would be going crazy.

Best of Luck,
Groz

Michigan and Purdue had great years, they were among the top 4 teams in the B1G, which is the point @NewJerseyHawk is making. Nebraska didn't beat any of the top four teams in conference. PSU only beat one, though they did it 3 times.

Beat a couple of the top 4 and they would have been in the NCAAT.

Winning games matter. Winning games against the best in your conference matters even more.

As it should.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

So you think we end up what with maybe 15 wins? You're pretty down on the team next year it seems

Haha dude @Greene Rice FIG is incredible. Guy thinks were gonna be 5-15 in the big ten. Has no idea what hes looking at. Hes been beaten to shit as a fan it seems. Cant blame him i guess but this is a new era

 

[Scangg]

Haha dude @Greene Rice FIG is incredible. Guy thinks were gonna be 5-15 in the big ten. Has no idea what hes looking at. Hes been beaten to shit as a fan it seems. Cant blame him i guess but this is a new era

Yea I was too after the scandal and EJ years but I'm soooo pumped now. Losing EO and Doorson but gaining Yeboah Young Mulcahy and Doucoure back. Carter Myles Harper Mathis Caleb Kiss all played their first year of B1G ball and 4 of them were freshman last year. I just don't see the reason for thinking we don't make another jump forward this season.

The weak OOC schedule will give the team confidence and some swag heading into B1G play too.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So you think we end up what with maybe 15 wins? You're pretty down on the team next year it seems

If I had to make a guess that sounds about right. We could be good next year, but we could also take one or two steps back. I think we overachieved last year and I didn’t like the way we finished the season.

 

[kcg88]

If I had to make a guess that sounds about right. We could be good next year, but we could also take one or two steps back. I think we overachieved last year and I didn’t like the way we finished the season.

It's a bit of seeing what you want to see I think.

The optimists case is that the Penn State first half was right after the big Iowa win and Issa's arrest. Then the team rallied in the second half and if Myles Johnson had just gone up with it on the final possession instead of passing out we might win anyway. We outplayed or matched PSU in every stat but 3P% which can be highly variable game to game.

By the end of the season Indiana was playing like a tournament team. They beat Wisconsin and Michigan State and then beat this Illinois team everybody is so high on AT Illinois by 18 in the game right before ours.

The Nebraska game was an inexcusably poor performance but we led by 5 with less than 7:00 left. And then Nebraska made Maryland and Wisconsin nearly just as bad. (Sconny had 17 turnovers in a 62 possession game)

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Just because you keep repeating the same thing about Penn State and Nebraska does not make it right. How about you might be wrong? Both of them were VERY good teams that year. They don't make the schedule for the Big Ten. The same thing could happen to us this year if we beat teams that "fall off" for some reason in the Big 10.

Best of Luck,
Groz

If they were "close", what were their seeds in the NIT....Penn State was a 4 seed....Nebraska was a 5 seed......

I don't keep saying it because I'm making things up.....i keep saying it because once a media member says something for a few weeks prior to the NCAAs, doesn't mean it's correct.

That means regardless of who Penn State or Nebraska did or didn't schedule in OOC, it was getting blown out by 18 to 20 in the B1G at MSG, despite finishing 4th based on record in conference games....the league schedules are not balanced in conferences where you don't have a round robin schedule.

If the league has a down year, your OOC is not going to save you. That season had the B1G overall as a league lose a LOT of head to head games across the entire conference. Those performances hurt the league overall.

Here's the link....the only argument is that the NCAA selection committee doesn't actually seed by rank of making the NCAAS....but they kinda do....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nc...ores-times-printable-pdf-years-tournament?amp

Here are the seeds for 2018 which shows how far off this argument is about OOC.

NIT 1 seeds- Notre Dame, Baylor, Southern California and St Marys. These are your 1st 4 outside of making the NCAAS

NIT 2 Seeds- Louisville, Utah, Marquette, Oklahoma State

NIT 3 seeds- LSU, Stanford, Middle Tennessee State, Oregon

NIT 4 seeds- Mississippi State, Penn State, W. Kentucky, Boise State

NIT 5 seeds- Nebraska, Boston College, Temple, Washington.

I didn't make this list up....maybe you could argue Penn State and Nebraska should have been seeded higher than 4th and 5th. But Penn State won the NIT, while Nebraska lost in the 1st game at Mississippi State.

I know it's not popular and it's not supporting the arguments for people wanting to see something else.

But there were 10 to 15 programs ahead of Penn State and Nebraska in 2018, for the NCAAS, if you base it on seedings. Maybe they seed the NIT differently but the 1 and 2 seeds are definitely ahead of them based on the selection process and committee.

The OOC schedule for Penn State or Nebraska was not going to leapfrog 12 to 16 teams ahead of them. Penn State and Nebraska needed to be more competitive in the games vs the 4 teams that made it from the B1G AND to show better results in the games they won in the B1G.

If you have a handful of games that are so close and can go either way, it gets sorted out by the committee.

Do I think Penn State and Nebraska should have been seeded higher based on the selection process?? I could say yes since Penn State won the NIT.....but the NIT is also a huge letdown for programs that felt they should have made it and teams do lose games in the NIT, when they're better than the opponents.

These are the seeds the NCAAS have....not my opinion or a writer's opinion or tweet....these are the actual numbers, not a guess.....

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

If I had to make a guess that sounds about right. We could be good next year, but we could also take one or two steps back. I think we overachieved last year and I didn’t like the way we finished the season.

There is no carryover from one season to the next....different season, different players, different everything. Players improve, some regress, some surprise in a good way.

There are 4 freshman who played significant minutes last year. If none of them improve from last year, the roster is still restocked with 3 newcomers in Yeboah, Mulcahy and Young.

If 2 of the 4 freshman last year improve a little, the team is better.....if all 4 freshman just improve a little on their weaknesses (FT shooting, slightly better defensively), the team will be better.

I don't measure improvement on overall record....I measure margin of defeat in the B1G, margin of victory in the B1G....player performances or stats in the B1G....does the team provide more quality depth off the bench....??...total wins or losses over 20 games depends on who you play once or twice vs another team's schedule. It's not always equal.

 

[kcg88]

If they were "close", what were their seeds in the NIT....Penn State was a 4 seed....Nebraska was a 5 seed......

I don't keep saying it because I'm making things up.....i keep saying it because once a media member says something for a few weeks prior to the NCAAs, doesn't mean it's correct.

That means regardless of who Penn State or Nebraska did or didn't schedule in OOC, it was getting blown out by 18 to 20 in the B1G at MSG, despite finishing 4th based on record in conference games....the league schedules are not balanced in conferences where you don't have a round robin schedule.

If the league has a down year, your OOC is not going to save you. That season had the B1G overall as a league lose a LOT of head to head games across the entire conference. Those performances hurt the league overall.

Here's the link....the only argument is that the NCAA selection committee doesn't actually seed by rank of making the NCAAS....but they kinda do....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-03-31/nit-bracket-2018-scores-times-printable-pdf-years-tournament?amp

Here are the seeds for 2018 which shows how far off this argument is about OOC.

NIT 1 seeds- Notre Dame, Baylor, Southern California and St Marys. These are your 1st 4 outside of making the NCAAS

NIT 2 Seeds- Louisville, Utah, Marquette, Oklahoma State

NIT 3 seeds- LSU, Stanford, Middle Tennessee State, Oregon

NIT 4 seeds- Mississippi State, Penn State, W. Kentucky, Boise State

NIT 5 seeds- Nebraska, Boston College, Temple, Washington.

I didn't make this list up....maybe you could argue Penn State and Nebraska should have been seeded higher than 4th and 5th. But Penn State won the NIT, while Nebraska lost in the 1st game at Mississippi State.

I know it's not popular and it's not supporting the arguments for people wanting to see something else.

But there were 10 to 15 programs ahead of Penn State and Nebraska in 2018, for the NCAAS, if you base it on seedings. Maybe they seed the NIT differently but the 1 and 2 seeds are definitely ahead of them based on the selection process and committee.

The OOC schedule for Penn State or Nebraska was not going to leapfrog 12 to 16 teams ahead of them. Penn State and Nebraska needed to be more competitive in the games vs the 4 teams that made it from the B1G AND to show better results in the games they won in the B1G.

If you have a handful of games that are so close and can go either way, it gets sorted out by the committee.

Do I think Penn State and Nebraska should have been seeded higher based on the selection process?? I could say yes since Penn State won the NIT.....but the NIT is also a huge letdown for programs that felt they should have made it and teams do lose games in the NIT, when they're better than the opponents.

These are the seeds the NCAAS have....not my opinion or a writer's opinion or tweet....these are the actual numbers, not a guess.....

The last four at large teams were Bona, UCLA, Syracuse, and Arizona State.

ASU went 8-10 in the Pac 12 and got in BECAUSE of their OOC wins over SDSU, Kansas State, Kansas, Xavier, Vanderbilt, and St. John's. They plainly would not have made the tournament with a soft OOC.

Syracuse went 8-10 in the ACC. They got in because the committee has a soft spot for Cuse, basically. They played a middle of the road non-conference slate but, crucially, did not play any teams worse than #265 Cornell. They would not have made it with a softer schedule.

UCLA went 11-7 in conference which is what got them in but they also played FOUR Quad 1 games, getting a "good win" against Kentucky. We'll play one Quad 1 game if we're lucky. More Quad 1 games = more chances for better wins (and losses don't really hurt your resume much).

St. Bonaventure beat Maryland, Buffalo, and Syracuse in the OOC. They went 14-4 in the A10 which as Davidson found out last year is not a guarantee of a selection. Davidson probably wishes they had another chance at a good win instead of beating D2 Central Pennsylvania by 34.

 

[sct1111]

I think you are misinterpreting that. It isn't a SOS rak. According to Kenpom: AdjEM is the difference between a team’s offensive and defensive efficiency. It’s simple subtraction. Even your dog can do it. It represents the number of points the team would be expected to outscore the average D-I team over 100 possessions.

I believe that Rutgers' overall SOS last season was 75.

It literally says "strength of schedule". It's 31.

That's according to KenPom. Other rankings might have had us 75 or whatever. Which honestly isn't terrible either for us. We need wins. We need a winning season which we haven't had for way too long.

 

[tjb]

Penn State fan here. Regarding the 2018 NIT team, it’s become something like conventional wisdom on the board I frequent that the terrible OOC doomed that team’s chances. At KenPom 19, it’s the highest ranked team in the analytics era not to get a bid.

I agree with the poster here who blames the lack of Big 10 wins against the top-tier teams, but the terrible OOC also contributed. Tie in the fact that the committee decisions ultimately come down to subjectivity, despite all the hoopla about criteria, and Penn State was left out because:

* It was easy to write-off the OSU record as some kind of match-up anomaly
* The OOC was terrible
* Penn State gets no “program points” from committee members that result in the benefit of the doubt

If you’re a bubble team, you need the first two (good wins and a representative OOC) especially if you have a lousy rep amongst “experts”