OT: 2019 Mets Season Thread

[RU-05]

I've done all I could to stop knocking you around on this. But you are a willing, even eager, victim. Rosario is hitting better, but still not selective at all. In fact, worse. He should take a pitch from time to time.

Rosario's sitting on 29 walks for the year. That's very low. If he gets one more, it will be the first time he breaks the 30 mark. Even as a free swinger, Cano walks 40, 50, 60 times per year. Rosario's selectivity has dropped. He walked just 4 times in August, and only 1 time in September. It shows in his stats. While he's 4th among NL SS in batting average, he's 9th in on-base-percentage and he's 10th in OPS--each toward the bottom for SS alone. He's 9th among NL SS in runs scored. That's because he's not on base enough, which is because he's not selective. He doesn't even appear to crack the top 150 in the NL in pitches per plate appearance. That's not what you want toward the top of your order. And, even if you have it, you want the rare hitter who isn't selective but has a very high BA. He's not that guy. But he's young, and he'll get better. Part of that will be learning how to take a pitch.

Knock me around on this? Like the time you said I was posting bad facts, when, as it turns out you were posting bad facts?

And why bring up his whole year OPS or OBP when we all know he was lousy early in the season. The discussion of him being more selective was relative to that. His OBP in July was .400, in August it was .360.

 

[RU-05]

Post All Star break Rosario is batting .330 with a .362 obp, ops of .807. Cream of the crop stats for NL short stops.

 

[RUEd]

I've done all I could to stop knocking you around on this. But you are a willing, even eager, victim. Rosario is hitting better, but still not selective at all. In fact, worse. He should take a pitch from time to time.

Rosario's sitting on 29 walks for the year. That's very low. If he gets one more, it will be the first time he breaks the 30 mark. Even as a free swinger, Cano walks 40, 50, 60 times per year. Rosario's selectivity has dropped. He walked just 4 times in August, and only 1 time in September. It shows in his stats. While he's 4th among NL SS in batting average, he's 9th in on-base-percentage and he's 10th in OPS--each toward the bottom for SS alone. He's 9th among NL SS in runs scored. That's because he's not on base enough, which is because he's not selective. He doesn't even appear to crack the top 150 in the NL in pitches per plate appearance. That's not what you want toward the top of your order. And, even if you have it, you want the rare hitter who isn't selective but has a very high BA. He's not that guy. But he's young, and he'll get better. Part of that will be learning how to take a pitch.

As you stated, he’s young. Only 23. Who knows, may turn in to a patient hitter in the coming years.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Post All Star break Rosario is batting .330 with a .362 obp, ops of .807. Cream of the crop stats for NL short stops.

But but he doesnt get walks...on the other hand...

As they used to say about the players coming from the islands. You can't get to MLB by walking...

 

[willisneverrana43]

Post All Star break Rosario is batting .330 with a .362 obp, ops of .807. Cream of the crop stats for NL short stops.

You're whistling past the point and posting half-stats. Again. This isn't about Rosario hitting better or being hot. He was. It's about whether his selectivity improved. There's no evidence of that. I said that, you challenged it and still can't let it go. His July OBP included only 6 walks. His lower August OBP included only 4. His OBP increased those months not because of walks--it was hot (maybe improved) hitting. Now it's September, he's not particularly hot, hitting .281, and his OBP is lowly .303 with 1 walk. That happens when you cool down but your selectivity didn't improve. He needs to learn to take a pitch.

I'll try to walk away from this again. My knuckles are bruised. But I'm guessing you'll want to keep challenging this.

 

[willisneverrana43]

As you stated, he’s young. Only 23. Who knows, may turn in to a patient hitter in the coming years.

I agree. The book MoneyBall suggested that the A's tried to teach selectivity, but it didn't take. I think, however, that it can come with time. Rosario at times gets better at it, but then backtracks. I think it will eventually stick. But the evidence won't come from some time period when he's white hot. Frankly, it's more helpful and more obvious when the player is not hot.

 

[RU-05]

You're whistling past the point and posting half-stats. Again. This isn't about Rosario hitting better or being hot. He was. It's about whether his selectivity improved. There's no evidence of that. I said that, you challenged it and still can't let it go. His July OBP included only 6 walks. His lower August OBP included only 4. His OBP increased those months not because of walks--it was hot (maybe improved) hitting. Now it's September, he's not particularly hot, hitting .281, and his OBP is lowly .303 with 1 walk. That happens when you cool down but your selectivity didn't improve. He needs to learn to take a pitch.

I'll try to walk away from this again. My knuckles are bruised. But I'm guess you'll want to keep challenging this.

Half stats? Dude the whole point was his improved play from earlier in the year, to later in the year. Thus the use of full season stats is irrelevant, ignorant even. In this discussion you have to look at the splits.

The point of him being selective was actually your point. In your opinion he still wasnt being selective enough. This was in July when his OBP was .400. Now we know his high OBP is because he is getting hits, not because of walking.

So the question is then, is he hitting better because he is being more selective at the plate? Keith Hernandez and Gary Cohen have both recently said exactly that. Are there stats to back up or counter their opinions? Honestly I haven't seen them. Splits in terms of pitches per plate appearance, or swinging at balls outside the strike zone would certainly be helpful here, but just watching it does look like he is taking more pitches, even if he is not walking more.


Now feel free to go back to punching yourself in the head.

 

[yesrutgers01]

You're whistling past the point and posting half-stats. Again. This isn't about Rosario hitting better or being hot. He was. It's about whether his selectivity improved. There's no evidence of that. I said that, you challenged it and still can't let it go. His July OBP included only 6 walks. His lower August OBP included only 4. His OBP increased those months not because of walks--it was hot (maybe improved) hitting. Now it's September, he's not particularly hot, hitting .281, and his OBP is lowly .303 with 1 walk. That happens when you cool down but your selectivity didn't improve. He needs to learn to take a pitch.

I'll try to walk away from this again. My knuckles are bruised. But I'm guessing you'll want to keep challenging this.

You are correct that he has not become more selective in regard to getting more walks. But it seems he must be more selective in his approach to swinging at pitches HE CAN hit. Pre AS he struck out about 1 out of 4 AB and post AS he strikes out 1 out of 6 AB and ALL of his numbers are dramatically better. Tells me that he is no longer swinging at pitches he can not hit. In my eyes, that IS becoming more selective.

BTW- Tony Gywnn averaged 52 walks ever 162 games...Does this mean he was not selective?

 

[RU-05]

Just checked, pitches per plate appearance, not a noticeable difference pre and post all star game. Right about 3.7.

Now for the season the SS with the most walks this season averages, 3.98 pitches per plate appearance, while Manny Machado who is tied for the 3rd most walks amongst SS averages 3.63 bitches per plate appearance.

So maybe not all that enlightening a stat.

 

[Knight Shift]

Dan Mullen ESPN.com

The New York Mets are doing their part to get us to a new single-season home run record tonight. Todd Frazier and Brandon Nimmo hit back-to-back jacks and we're now 19 away from a new mark.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Half stats? Dude the whole point was his improved play from earlier in the year, to later in the year. . . . .

Have you ever been in a back and forth when the other guy got so twisted into a pretzel that he forgot what you were discussing? I’m there right now. Let’s just move on.

 

[MadRU]

Mets 9 runs 11 hits on 9/11

 

[FrankZ]

Mets 9 runs 11 hits on 9/11

9 RBI, 11 LOB

 

[Knight Shift]

 

[yesrutgers01]

Mets 9 runs 11 hits on 9/11

Can’t make this shit up

 

[Yeah Baby]

9 runs 11 hits

 

[FrankZ]

Most annoying squad (Pick one): Marlins, Reds, or Pirates.

 

[Knight Shift]

Will Dodgers rest their best players now that they have clinched?

 

[FrankZ]

1) WAS: 27 of 35 - 77.1% (+1.5). Fangraphs Odds: 90.4%
2) PHI: 23 of 36 - 63.9% (-2). Odds: 11.4%
3) NYM: 21 of 35 - 60.0% (-1.5). Odds: 51.4%
4) CHI: 20 of 35 - 57.1% (DIV). Odds: 79.1%
5) STL: 16 of 37 - 43.2% (-0). Odds: 50.9%
6) MIL: 15 of 35 - 42.9% (-3.5). Odds: 12.6%

Update: Listed hardest to easiest (based on games remaining against over .500 teams)
1) WAS: 15 of 18 - 83.3% (+3.5)
2) PHI: 14 of 17 - 82.4% (-2)
3) NYM: 7 of 17 - 41.2% (-2)
3) CHI: 7 of 17 - 41.2% (-0)
5) ARI: 4 of 16 - 25.0% (-2.5)
6) MIL: 3 of 17 - 17.6% (-0)

 

[Knight Shift]

Most annoying squad (Pick one): Marlins, Reds, or Pirates.

Not the Padres. Mets -2.

 

[BigEastPhil]

I am currently in San Diego. Went to Padres - Cubs game tonight and boy am I happy Padres won. Also Petco Field is an amazing stadium. If you are ever in San Diego, make it your business to go to Petco. Most importantly, LFGM! Ya Gotta Believe!

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Will Dodgers rest their best players now that they have clinched?

They haven't clinched home field. In either the NL or in a potential World Series.

 

[yesrutgers01]

They haven't clinched home field. In either the NL or in a potential World Series.

does the AS game still determine the home field for the WS?

 

[yesrutgers01]

In regard to the Met's...as much as I am still enjoying the chase this year...I still wish we had a real GM and ownership. This is a team that could become very exciting over the next handful of years if they have a smart off season.
With an offense that has
Alonso- on a world of his own
McNeil/Davis- both seem to be capable for prime D Wright type offensive seasons
Rosario - best hitting SS we have had outside of prime Reyes
Conforto - even in an inconsistent year- going to have 30HR 90 Rbi - could put of Beltran type numbers
Ramos- Thor or not, guy can hit
Nimmo- not sure what to make of him but the guy does get on base.
Cano/Lowrie- Maybe Cano does have life in his bat and Lowrie is a pro
Bench with Smith/Lowrie . and what if Cesp actually does come back?

Looks like Thor may get traded. This is where we really need a GM...And the only guys that we should keep in the pen is Lugo Wilson Gsel
This what scares me- are we smart enough to focus on RP's and getting another starter? Building up the farm? Or will they do stupid shit like they did this past year? Need more Davis/Ramos/Wilson type of signings and if we trade Thor and lose Wheeler- make that big splash for a Cole type of starter.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

They haven't clinched home field. In either the NL or in a potential World Series.

does the AS game still determine the home field for the WS?

No. Best record I'd the determining factor in every round now.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Next series up, Red Sox @ Phillies, Brewers @Cards, Pirates @Cubs, Reds @ Dbacks.

 

[yesrutgers01]

No. Best record I'd the determining factor in every round now.

Sooo- Yankees and Astros are cheering for the Met's over the next few days...

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Sooo- Yankees and Astros are cheering for the Met's over the next few days...

Imagine that. But I'm sure the arrogant fans like the trio that like to intrude their way into this thread at any chance to make a dig at us Mets fans, would say home field doesn't matter to them.

 

[RU-05]

Have you ever been in a back and forth when the other guy got so twisted into a pretzel that he forgot what you were discussing? I’m there right now. Let’s just move on.

I have now been in one where a guy keeps punching himself in the head but thinks he is winning.

You have definitely given yourself a concussion.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Let's see if Stroman can do something to make his trade look like anything other than another misstep. Today's the day to do that.

 

[RU-05]

Let's see if Stroman can do something to make his trade look like anything other than another misstep. Today's the day to do that.

I thought that was BVW getting back on the right track in terms of adding talent, but so far no good.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I thought that was BVW getting back on the right track in terms of adding talent, but so far no good.

I give him a pass on this one. Guy was pitching to a sub 3 era in a division that has Yankees and Redsox...
The only question about the trade at the time was “Why?” As we obviously should have been sellers...and we were wrong in that...

 

[Mr Magoo]

I give him a pass on this one. Guy was pitching to a sub 3 era in a division that has Yankees and Redsox...
The only question about the trade at the time was “Why?” As we obviously should have been sellers...and we were wrong in that...

I’m kind of glad I can’t watch it today. It’s painful to watch this guy throw 30 pitches each inning and contort and gyrate after each one. He’s quickly becoming the new Vargas.

 

[RU-05]

I give him a pass on this one. Guy was pitching to a sub 3 era in a division that has Yankees and Redsox...
The only question about the trade at the time was “Why?” As we obviously should have been sellers...and we were wrong in that...

I actually liked that BVW sent the message of "we want to win".

But Stroman pitching to a sub 3 era and that not carrying over sounds a lot like Diaz's success not carrying over. This is very much a result business, and the early results are not good. Granted there is still time this season, and we have all of next season, but if he continues to pitch to a 5+ era then what he did in Toronto does not mean a whole lot.

 

[cicero grimes]

Need to finish the sweep today and then 2 of 3 from LA. If we can accomplish that we have a chance. No slip ups today.

 

[Doctor Worm]

The lineup against lefty Alex Young:

Rosario SS
Alonso 1B
Cano 2B
JD Davis LF
Conforto RF
Frazier 3B
Lagares CF
Nido C
Stroman P

McNeil and Ramos (among others) available off the bench.

 

[Mr Magoo]

The lineup against lefty Alex Young:

Rosario SS
Alonso 1B
Cano 2B
JD Davis LF
Conforto RF
Frazier 3B
Lagares CF
Nido C
Stroman P

McNeil and Ramos (among others) available off the bench.

Hopefully Frazier stays hot. Otherwise Frazier, Lagares, Nido, Stroman in order significantly cripples every 2nd inning or so. A big first inning again would be nice.

 

[RU-05]

Matz since the All Star break.

11 Starts, 2.52 era, 5-2 record.

Has gotten through 7 only once during that stretch, and has not made it through 6 in 4 of his 11 starts, so still not getting the innings from him that you would like from your starter.

But like Wheeler, we have gotten 30ish starts from Matz in back to back years.

 

[FrankZ]

Let's see if Stroman can do something to make his trade look like anything other than another misstep. Today's the day to do that.

Not getting my hopes up - the guy has been a royal disappointment. File another one in the assume the worst bucket, and hope for the best.

 

[yesrutgers01]

MCNEIL cannot be on the ****ing bench. This is why we can’t stand management. You don’t have your best hitter who has already missed a lot of games sit for any reason with 20 ****ing games left. Even worse, after 3 hits and 2 HRs.