80-83 are not mid to late 80s I got my 8% ARM In late '86. Rate never topped that and declined in most years
OT: Another NJ farm to be seized
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80-83 are not mid to late 80s I got my 8% ARM In late '86. Rate never topped that and declined in most years
85 is not mid 80’s? Okay. ARM’s are not the standard when discussing mortgage rates. And the point wasn’t necessarily 17% but higher than present day. Where 7% is considered a roadblock to entry.
1986 | 10.19% |
| 1987 | 10.21% |
| 1988 | 10.34% |
| 1989 | 10.32% |
| 1990 | 10.13% |
hmmm.. with baby powder becoming a legal problem for them.. I wonder if you still have them somewhere.. the powder..
Not if we're going by the regional definition of median income, affordable, and the requisite income limits. Two people in household + Middlesex County = $107,700.
Even the rookie cop couple making $63,000 each don't qualify. So what are we all arguing here?
Exactly. What I have said and posted numerous times in this thread.
“You do realize 2 of the 3 professions you keep mentioning wouldn’t qualify for the subsidies you’re advocating? And one would only qualify if they are at the very low end of the income range. ”
Nurse wouldn’t qualify, cop wouldn’t qualify, new teacher would only qualify in low paying district at low end of range.
agree 100%. Was just trying to make a point.....or maybe throw it out there and hope he figured it out. he didn't
all this is going to do is bring lazy sh$tbags to nice towns
It’s extremely difficult to qualify for affordable housing. My nephew just graduated college and barely met the income requirement. He was able to get the down payment from his mom. There no one that can earn so little and have saved a down payment. The only people might be someone working under the table.
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I believe he lived there 4 years and it allowed him to save enough for a decent down payment and probably more money from the parents to buy his current house. It was difficult finding a buyer due to all the restrictions.
They need to change the rules since almost no one can qualify for the program. The affordable housing rule forces the town to built apartments and townhouses in their town. Developers use it to get into towns since most don’t want more density and they don’t want the additional kids that require more school cost. Towns love retirement home and assisted living due to no kids.
He graduated about 15 years ago but he had a low wage due to just getting out of college. One or two more years and he wouldn’t have qualified due to pay increases. Same thread
I believe he lived there 4 years and it allowed him to save enough for a decent down payment and probably more money from the parents to buy his current house. It was difficult finding a buyer due to all the restrictions.
They need to change the rules since almost no one can qualify for the program. The affordable housing rule forces the town to built apartments and townhouses in their town. Developers use it to get into towns since most don’t want more density and they don’t want the additional kids that require more school cost. Towns love retirement home and assisted living due to no kids.
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I think that thing was WAY overblown but no, nothing left from those days. Heck, my Confections closet (Gum, candy, cough drops, chocolate) emptied out 5 years ago from my days at Kraft and Nabisco/Mondelez.
lazy sh$tbags ? This conversation about "average" teacher and police not qualifying ignores that bottom range for new hires in NJ in both fields is below $50k. Most things we live in , wear, eat, use and travel in are made by people who make less then this. The people who will wipe your sorry ass and feed you when you are old will make less then this.
I’m not complaining about Mt Laurel. You are. I’m pointing out how towns and builders skirted their responsibilities for 30 years and now the towns are scrambling. The developers don’t agree. They are using the system to build more. As red team has said and I have witnessed. You will never hear a developer want to build less or build something that won’t maximize profit. They are pushing low/affordable housing mandates now so they can build more of something else.
And your last paragraph is absurd. Considering this whole thread is about eminent domain. And I addressed that on page 1 page 3 and multiple other times.
Will you be doing the right thing and selling your condo in Jersey City for the price you paid and your second home in Monmouth County?
Regional Income Limits | Piazza & Associates Inc.
www.piazzanj.com
OK, so you wish towns obeyed the laws 30 years ago?
Who are the developers suing to overturn the law? I see only towns.
If you support Mount Laurel what does that have to do with property I own?
Any state can. It's not a NJ specific thing. The SCOTUS decided it. It's not like this is only happening here.
There's been a lot of changes on the federal courts since. So they can challenge the eminent domain aspect and see what happens. The affordable housing aspect is a NJ thing.
I don't think I hate anybody but appreciate the kind words (relatively).
And yeah not everyone should have to go to CC- but at least that is free in NJ if you're low income. I am sure someone will complain about that too...and say they're not complaining....
My guess is your Gen X. Never said you got anything free or silver spoon.
It just seems like you're railing on a legal doctrine that on its worst day increased your home values. Even if your town "is scrambling" based on the link I provided- you know stats- still seems like this is a non issue.
The idea that someone texts you to say ignore posts on a message board.
That is an absolute LOL.
And from people who will tell you their adoration of free speech and how the young people don't put the phone down.
I won't say who but we know who is texting. This thread has actually been super respectful and that drives them loco.
Uh...you realize 1) every town has to participate and 2) what does income have to do with laziness? I thought you're all about the working class, not everyone needs college, etc?
Someone starting off in a blue collar field is likely going to fall below the limit. Are they "lazier" than an engineer? Does every else in NJ not rely upon the work these people do?
You probably think teachers are lazy- which is crazy but OK. But is everyone else at that income level not working hard? Does earning six figures mean you're not lazy?
Your self righteous attitude it was it has to do with it. The town of Cranbury is stealing a farm that has been in the family for 100+years because they want it. You have posted that eminent domain is good so when you are moving on the right thing to do would be to give the home to jersey city, or whichever town your second home in Monmouth county is or will be.
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No they said your a tool box, conspiracy theorist and outright looney.
Yes you did on the other thread. But again your memory and attention to detail are not all that reliable.
I'm not too keen on the "lazy shitbags" terminology either, I was a struggling n00b in my profession in warehousing & logistics IT living in this area too, but since we're talking Cranbury we have to deal in Cranbury's reality. They have 4 police officers earning less than $100,000 straight salary. Even the youngins on the force earn 50% more in "extra pay". No cop in Cranbury is earning less than $75K.
Cranbury has one K-8 school in the district. Total enrollment is less than 450. 57 teachers. I'm making an educated guess there isn't a long line of rookie teachers in the district who need a place to live.
One more anecdote, Plainsboro one town over was where I lived. They had many apartments that were built in the early 80's and were unrenovated and thus affordable. My first year I paid less than $700/mo for a one bedroom apt, and that was when New Brunswick was much more expensive than that. The town had a rent control ordinance in place where the landlord could not raise the rent more than 5% per year when a tenant renewed. A few years after living in the 1br I moved up to a 2br 1ba in the same complex for $1000/mo. Renewed a few times, then the property was sold to another management group. The new group slowly renovated every apartment as they were vacated, and eventually sold again to another group who jacked the rents of even the unrenovated apartments to the market rates. I bought a house instead with a PITI payment less than what those crooks wanted in rent for a 2br 1ba.
In short, affordable housing can happen, can be filled with hard working folks, and did not necessarily require billions in government funds to happen. But eventually greed wins out and the "lazy shitbags" working their butts off get pushed out for granite countertops and herringbone floors.
And don't lose sight of the fact that people will do anything for their kids to give them a leg up. If you were a young adult 20 years ago and had a chance to get your kids into West Windsor - Plainsboro schools for less than $1000/mo you'd jump at it. People would pay any price for that, and they do now, to the tune of over $2200/mo for my old renovated apartment. Cranbury is facing the same; their kids go to Princeton High School. How much would you be willing to pay to get your kids into PHS? That price is probably unaffordable to the warehouse worker up at 3am putting in 2 hours of OT everyday looking for a shorter commute.
Cranbury has one K-8 school in the district. Total enrollment is less than 450. 57 teachers. I'm making an educated guess there isn't a long line of rookie teachers in the district who need a place to live.
One more anecdote, Plainsboro one town over was where I lived. They had many apartments that were built in the early 80's and were unrenovated and thus affordable. My first year I paid less than $700/mo for a one bedroom apt, and that was when New Brunswick was much more expensive than that. The town had a rent control ordinance in place where the landlord could not raise the rent more than 5% per year when a tenant renewed. A few years after living in the 1br I moved up to a 2br 1ba in the same complex for $1000/mo. Renewed a few times, then the property was sold to another management group. The new group slowly renovated every apartment as they were vacated, and eventually sold again to another group who jacked the rents of even the unrenovated apartments to the market rates. I bought a house instead with a PITI payment less than what those crooks wanted in rent for a 2br 1ba.
In short, affordable housing can happen, can be filled with hard working folks, and did not necessarily require billions in government funds to happen. But eventually greed wins out and the "lazy shitbags" working their butts off get pushed out for granite countertops and herringbone floors.
And don't lose sight of the fact that people will do anything for their kids to give them a leg up. If you were a young adult 20 years ago and had a chance to get your kids into West Windsor - Plainsboro schools for less than $1000/mo you'd jump at it. People would pay any price for that, and they do now, to the tune of over $2200/mo for my old renovated apartment. Cranbury is facing the same; their kids go to Princeton High School. How much would you be willing to pay to get your kids into PHS? That price is probably unaffordable to the warehouse worker up at 3am putting in 2 hours of OT everyday looking for a shorter commute.
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1) Does the law in NJ not permit the town to take the farm? Seems like it does. That isn't stealing. If you don't like the laws, change them. You have said how well you're doing. You can fund the litigation. Trust me there's many people who want that to overturn Kelo.
2) I thought wealthy towns, which Cranbury is definitely one, hate the obligations...now they "want" them?
3) Eminent domain means the city wants my property. So far, they haven't. Also it'd mean they'd have to pay me for it...you seem very confused as to what the law is.
I am sure they also said "your a" without a hint of irony.
To be called names by people who text others- probably people old enough to be my parents too- about a college football message board- means I'm probably upsetting all the right people...who themselves are no doubt all of those things.
You keep saying "the other thread". OK. Why not quote where I said you grew up with a silver spoon.
You claim you're supportive of affordable housing anyway, right? So how could anyone have drawn that conclusion?!
Think what you like. Your versus you’re is an autocorrect auto prompt thing. But congratulations.
I don't think the govt is funding this to the extent that a developer is likely going to have to pay Cranbury. Also 75k- maybe you can live in Trenton on that- maybe- I don't know about Cranbury.
Google says that average rent in Plainsboro is $2180, which is doable on 75k but cutting it quite close. Definitely not with a kid.
The "lazy s bags" making the incomes from your link though are definitely not affording that much a month.
And yeah in NJ it's all about education at the end of the day. Maybe that's the issue the others are having without saying it.
In my town we had no apartments growing up...now they have a few complexes and I think the HS ranks higher and the average SAT went up from my day.
At the same time I have heard people say here...."oh my coworker pays their adult children's expenses to live in Hoboken." Ok, well is that child getting her home bought in Cranbury or Wall or wherever the better neighbor than the "lazy s bag" working to the bone for 50k, or their kid who is dreaming of being the first in their family to go to college? Again I thought everyone loved the working class now but I guess it's when the working class is far away from the coast....
Not confused at all. The family does not want to sell therefore the town is forcing them off their property.when multiple people on this thread have shown you there ante other options available. Eminent domain historically does not pay full retail value. Also would not provide for alternative location to continue farming if that is what they would want. I know families personally that her their properties on Long Branch stolen from them. Got paid a pittance and were left with huge attorneys fees. Tell me how that is fair?
We all know who texts about me and that's so sad. Honestly feel sorry for those people.
See, there's thing called empathy. Maybe we all had some luck here and there in life, and others didn't, and we can recognize that?
I had the benevolence of the NJ taxpayer allowing me to go to a public school where "you're" vs "your" is taught, and then they helped fund my college. Now I get to pay taxes and help the next generation so that when I'm old, we have doctors and nurses who can help me.
Silly me for thinking that even the kid of the person making 50k should get the same thing, or as his parents are known, "lazy s bags."
The irony is...the people who text about me had the opportunity to learn basic grammar and civics...among other things...and declined them...
Looking at the map of the area and reading the news reports, it would not shock me if in the future, Cranbury seizes the whole farm and subdivides and sells off the small parcel between CR-535 and the Turnpike for affordable housing, then 5 years later sells the parcel between 130 and CR-535 to another warehouse developer. There's lots of money to be made.
I always wondered why that large tract was never sold to developer for a truck stop. The local police clean up ticketing drivers who overnight park on the shoulders all over that area. Now we know...the owner refuses to sell. Cranbury Township decided otherwise.
Meanwhile, the wet lab on the corner of 130 and CR-614 has been vacant for 20 years. They just keep updating the phone number and listing agent.
I always wondered why that large tract was never sold to developer for a truck stop. The local police clean up ticketing drivers who overnight park on the shoulders all over that area. Now we know...the owner refuses to sell. Cranbury Township decided otherwise.
Meanwhile, the wet lab on the corner of 130 and CR-614 has been vacant for 20 years. They just keep updating the phone number and listing agent.
What are those other options? "Lazy s bags" can live outside of Cranbury?
Seems like the option is, if eminent domain is so bad, to challenge the Kelo decision. I posted a link to it. Why isn't that happening?
If Cranbury "wants" this...why aren't people running against the current local gov on this basis?
If people are paid unfairly in LB or elsewhere, great, let's see the assessments, or better yet, let's have a judge see them and make decisions. That's what happens in this country (for now) when politicians make decisions we don't like.
We are having an election in Nov in NJ. I hear all about how terrible affordable housing is, and a bunch of towns are suing about that. But ironically they're not suing on eminent domain, when there's a lot of new SCOTUS judges who might be sympathetic. Instead they're suing about affordable housing....in state courts that have ruled time and again against them.
So maybe your argument is about eminent domain and you adore affordable housing (save "scrambling" maybe?) but seems like most other people are really upset about the "lazy s bags."
Cool at what point did I say any of the things you said in that multiple hundred word, word salad?
There you go again. Focus on what I have said and not others. And stop inferring and look at the stats and data I have provided. None of what you have said has merit.
You should educate yourself on Long Branch and eminent domain before you say such stupid things.
Again, $75K "with a kid"? We're dealing with single parent households now? What happened to the cop & teacher? $2180 is what I was offered before I closed on a house in Hamilton for $1600 PITI, and my wife and I were both making less than $75K each. More like $55K. I just checked my old complex in Plainsboro and with the "First Responder Discount" they are advertising 'starting at $2368'.
Yea, my wife is a teacher so try again. This isn’t going to being young blue collar workers. Towns have proposed to make all the low income 1 BR’s in order to bring exactly that. State said they can’t. And as pointed out by others, most of your examples don’t qualify.
Mt. Laurel was about making more districts competitive for Dems. It did away with home rule, which is the exact opposite of what the US government was formed to achieve.
Does anyone have a list of municipalities forced to build affordable housing? I'd be curious is some Dem stronghold weathly town has been sued to ensure affordable housing be built next door. Hmmmm... If this is really about developers wanting to build more they wouldn't care blue or red municipality.
Does anyone have a list of municipalities forced to build affordable housing? I'd be curious is some Dem stronghold weathly town has been sued to ensure affordable housing be built next door. Hmmmm... If this is really about developers wanting to build more they wouldn't care blue or red municipality.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Cranbury Township voted 62% for Harris.
NJ turning red? How your town voted for president in 2024
Surprising new data from the state Division of Elections reveals exactly how Vice President Kamala Harris won New Jersey's 14 electoral votes in 2024.
I wasn't "getting at" anything. I even ended with "If this is really about developers wanting to build more they wouldn't care blue or red municipality". So thank you, your 62% quote indicates some poster's previous thought about developers interests driving this might indicate it is not about red or blue, but green. I know the original Mount Laurel decision was looked at from a political perspective as Burlington County was rather "blue". It has been a long time since then and I would be curious to see if application of that legal ruling had mostly been applied to more conservative suburban and rural entities. If the powers that be in this state avoided spreading the pain to wealthy liberal strongholds.Not sure what you're getting at here. Cranbury Township voted 62% for Harris.
NJ turning red? How your town voted for president in 2024
Surprising new data from the state Division of Elections reveals exactly how Vice President Kamala Harris won New Jersey's 14 electoral votes in 2024.nj1015.com
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I don't work in this field, but I'm trying to figure out how it works. My town of Moorestown (not Morristown) always seems to be struggling to meet its obligations. I have two questions:
1. What is the formula to determine how much affordable housing has to be provided? Or is it constantly changing?
2. Will a town ever be able to reach it's obligation by building enough affordable housing for good or will it always be asked to build more no matter what?
It’s not all about Mr Laurel law as some are claiming here. Pay attention to where in the state the mass amounts of these projects are being pushed on towns by the state. It’s not urban areas where there had been a lot more affordable housing in the past. Why? Because the same groups pushing this out to rural areas have gentrified the urban areas. It has led to widespread environmental destruction. One can not claim to support the environment and affordable housing at the same time with the way it is handled right now. The builders are happy, the bleeding hearts gentrifying urban areas feel they’ve done their good dead but the people who enjoy open space get to watch total destruction on habitats and the environment plus overwhelmed schools.
