OT: Another NJ farm to be seized

[kupuna133]

Yeah no. In the private sector people get stuck handling admin tasks. Teachers are underpaid and I'm sure there's bloat, but it's not to this extent unless for example there's an inordinate amount of students on IEPs. That said, those aids will be full time. The office staff is full time, the security too. They all need a place to live. I don't think this helps your argument.

Again no. Go to a BOE meeting and you will be surprised who and what is full and part time.

No it does help the argument. You claimed 3 occupations. Nurses cops and teachers have nowhere to live and need affordable housing. If you used part time or other low paying jobs there wouldn’t have been a discussion. You now change the argument again. I’m done. Have a great day.

 

[iReC89]

Is it possible to convert vacant warehouses into low cost housing or would the expense to do that be unaffordable?

Warehouses are just slabs, exterior walls a roof a ceiling and basic lighting and heat. maybe AC. No water, sewer, 115v, etc through most of it. Ceilings are impractibly high for residential conversion. Emergency housing - sure, but not pleasant. Probably cheaper to tear down and start over for long term housing.

 

[RedTeam1994]

My parents house was taken from them by the government through eminent domain.
The fair market value is determined by the one stealing yer property.
Dont think fer a second they will get what it is worth if they were selling to the open market.

Sucks that that was your experience. However your opinion on value may or may not have matched the actual market value

"The fair market value is determined by the one stealing yer property"

Actually it is not. The value is determined by outside professional appraisers. Thats the law.

Could there have been some type of collusion in your case to get a lower value? Anything is possible.

 

[RedTeam1994]

Warehouses are just slabs, exterior walls a roof a ceiling and basic lighting and heat. maybe AC. No water, sewer, 115v, etc through most of it. Ceilings are impractibly high for residential conversion. Emergency housing - sure, but not pleasant. Probably cheaper to tear down and start over for long term housing.

yes. an earlier post talked about conversion of warehouses to housing.

yes thats done in urban areas with industrial buildings built in the 1800s... converted into lofts, etc.

but you cant convert a modern warehouse (with open spans and 45 high walls) into housing. If a site with a modern warehouse was ever to be redeveloped for housing they would tear the warehouse down and build new

 

[e5fdny]

Yeah no. In the private sector people get stuck handling admin tasks. Teachers are underpaid and I'm sure there's bloat, but it's not to this extent unless for example there's an inordinate amount of students on IEPs. That said, those aids will be full time. The office staff is full time, the security too. They all need a place to live. I don't think this helps your argument.

True. But they don't need to live in Brielle.

To be honest many in elementary or HS education would prefer not to live where they work.

 

[fsg2]

True. But they don't need to live in Brielle.

To be honest many in elementary or HS education would prefer not to live where they work.

Surely true for some, not others.

Different from not even having it as a remote option either way.

 

[e5fdny]

Warehouses are just slabs, exterior walls a roof a ceiling and basic lighting and heat. maybe AC. No water, sewer, 115v, etc through most of it. Ceilings are impractibly high for residential conversion. Emergency housing - sure, but not pleasant. Probably cheaper to tear down and start over for long term housing.

yes. an earlier post talked about conversion of warehouses to housing.

yes, that's done in urban areas with industrial buildings built in the 1800s... converted into lofts, etc.

but you cant convert a modern warehouse (with open spans and 45 high walls) into housing. If a site with a modern warehouse was ever to be redeveloped for housing, they would tear the warehouse down and build new

Which is what I'm saying.

I never suggested people would be living in them.

And while the utilities are basic in the present structure(s) they are at least there and can be expanded instead of starting from scratch.

 

[RedTeam1994]

Which is what I'm saying.

I never suggested people would be living in them.

And while the utilities are basic in the present structure(s) they are at least there and can be expanded instead of starting from scratch.

FWIW - I was talking directly about an "earlier post" (not yours) that talked about conversion of warehouse into housing

 

[e5fdny]

Surely true for some, not others.

Different from not even having it as a remote option either way.

Well, sticking to teaching...it probably shouldn't be remote anyway.

 

[e5fdny]

FWIW - I was talking directly about an "earlier post" (not yours) that talked about conversion of warehouse into housing

I think some missed that one.

We can all recall seeing this done for some older builds where they are made into apartments or condos. And done right, they look pretty cool.

 

[fsg2]

Well, sticking to teaching...it probably shouldn't be remote anyway.

😄 Good twist on that terrible sentence I wrote.

But even transitioning to that - eliminating a remote option further emphasizes the importance of living close to your school. A remote setup would far better make your argument, honestly.

I previously meant that living in town should be at least a semi-attainable thought and not a hard "never gonna' happen."

 

[e5fdny]

😄 Good twist on that terrible sentence I wrote.

But even transitioning to that - eliminating a remote option further emphasizes the importance of living close to your school. A remote setup would far better make your argument, honestly.

I previously meant that living in town should be at least a semi-attainable thought and not a hard "never gonna' happen."

Not sure there.

We've already discussed many options in the thread for a new teacher, to keep it on education, where they might be able to live in relation (a relative term - means different things to different people) to where they work.

While it is a great idea, living in or close to the vicinity, if there is no available inventory it's kinda tough to make it happen.

 

[Bagarocks]

Sucks that that was your experience. However your opinion on value may or may not have matched the actual market value

"The fair market value is determined by the one stealing yer property"

Actually it is not. The value is determined by outside professional appraisers. Thats the law.

Could there have been some type of collusion in your case to get a lower value? Anything is possible.

That must be why they sued the State cuz the "law" determined the value.

 

[fsg2]

Not sure there.

We've already discussed many options in the thread for a new teacher, to keep it on education, where they might be able to live in relation (a relative term - means different things to different people) to where they work.

While it is a great idea, living in or close to the vicinity, if there is no available inventory it's kinda tough to make it happen.

If they were remote, they wouldn't have to be near the vicinity.

I'm not advocating for that, but it is another solution to the problem under discussion. But last thing I want is to give more Californians another reason to move, teachers or not.

 

[e5fdny]

If they were remote, they wouldn't have to be near the vicinity.

I'm not advocating for that, but it is another solution to the problem under discussion. But last thing I want is to give more Californians another reason to move, teachers or not.

Well for the latter part of the thread we have been using the teacher example.

So yeah, the remote thing is something we don’t really want to see again. Especially at the elementary level.

 

[iReC89]

I think some missed that one.

We can all recall seeing this done for some older builds where they are made into apartments or condos. And done right, they look pretty cool.

Those are solid structures in walkable locations with lots of windows, workable ceiling heights and many are actually multi floor manufacturing facilities. There is nothing recyclable about these modern warehouses for housing. They have a minimal steel structure enough to support a light roof and tilt up precast exterior panel walls. It’s not easy to add additional floors unless the initial steel and footings were designed for it.

 

[iReC89]

Big entry into the conversation - Trump Ag Secretary Rollins tweeted support for the farm owners and others facing similar action. Not that they have much say directly but the Trump admin can certainly twist some arms.

 

[mdk01]

Big entry into the conversation - Trump Ag Secretary Rollins tweeted support for the farm owners and others facing similar action. Not that they have much say directly but the Trump admin can certainly twist some arms.

View embedded media

And they could also trigger an eminent domain action out of spite in NJ given state politics

 

[Knight Shift]

And they could also trigger an eminent domain action out of spite in NJ given state politics

Maybe the administration can go forward with developing National Forest land for housing

Congress is making more than 250 million acres of public lands available for sale.

The Senate reconciliation package is a disturbing giveaway that will mandate the “disposal” of public lands across the western United States.

www.wilderness.org

 

[iReC89]

Ciattarelli

Maybe the administration can go forward with developing National Forest land for housing

Congress is making more than 250 million acres of public lands available for sale.

The Senate reconciliation package is a disturbing giveaway that will mandate the “disposal” of public lands across the western United States.

www.wilderness.org

more likely it will end up as remote vacation property. Selling off national forests is criminal. Hopefully none of the pine lands are included.

 

[Knight Shift]

Ciattarelli

more likely it will end up as remote vacation property. Selling off national forests is criminal. Hopefully none of the pine lands are included.

This story has been making the rounds on social media and on my Arizona hiking and mountain biking accounts. Would not be surprised if politicians threw their rich buddies some federal forest land in the name of providing housing and solving the housing shortage "problem."

OPINION: Don't buy the administration's plans for public lands

Since Jan. 20, the Trump administration has announced a plethora of ideas for America’s public lands, like boosting energy production, increasing logging and mining, even building data centers. Administration officials

www.abqjournal.com

 

[e5fdny]

Those are solid structures in walkable locations with lots of windows, workable ceiling heights and many are actually multi floor manufacturing facilities. There is nothing recyclable about these modern warehouses for housing. They have a minimal steel structure enough to support a light roof and tilt up precast exterior panel walls. It’s not easy to add additional floors unless the initial steel and footings were designed for it.

Again, I’m not talking about using or recycling them. Just the space and footprint they occupy. Some of it being huge.

 

[iReC89]

Oops - the Ciattarelli cofefe was a prior post I didn’t finish. He is supportive of the farm also I believe. Couldn’t find a comment by Sherrill on this.

 

[fsg2]

This story has been making the rounds on social media and on my Arizona hiking and mountain biking accounts. Would not be surprised if politicians threw their rich buddies some federal forest land in the name of providing housing and solving the housing shortage "problem."

OPINION: Don't buy the administration's plans for public lands

Since Jan. 20, the Trump administration has announced a plethora of ideas for America’s public lands, like boosting energy production, increasing logging and mining, even building data centers. Administration officials

www.abqjournal.com

Not sure what it affects in other states, but it would impact some of the most popular mtb trails in UT (i.e. the world) from what I've read. Shortsighted trash that got killed in the house for being such.

 

[e5fdny]

Not sure what it affects in other states, but it would impact some of the most popular mtb trails in UT (i.e. the world) from what I've read. Shortsighted trash that got killed in the house for being such.

Like “Yellowstone” the TV show in real life.

Some stuff and places should just be left alone or disturbed as little as possible.

 

[Knight Shift]

Not sure what it affects in other states, but it would impact some of the most popular mtb trails in UT (i.e. the world) from what I've read. Shortsighted trash that got killed in the house for being such.

Like “Yellowstone” the TV show in real life.

Some stuff and places should just be left alone or disturbed as little as possible.

Sedona is in an area called the Verde Valley. Sedona is surrounded by National Forest. The traffic around Sedona is already horrific- think Jersey Shore on July 4th weekend. Could not see them developing forest land for more housing and traffic.

 

[fsg2]

Sedona is in an area called the Verde Valley. Sedona is surrounded by National Forest. The traffic around Sedona is already horrific- think Jersey Shore on July 4th weekend. Could not see them developing forest land for more housing and traffic.

Agree on all points. I try to stay away from downtown Sedona as much as possible. If I only see it when driving through upon arrival and departure, that's a win.

Much prefer staying toward the west part of town or in Oak Creek.

Isn't most of it part of a Red Rock wilderness or preservation area? Think that would exempt it, at least.

 

[Knight Shift]

Agree on all points. I try to stay away from downtown Sedona as much as possible. If I only see it when driving through upon arrival and departure, that's a win.

Much prefer staying toward the west part of town or in Oak Creek.

Isn't most of it part of a Red Rock wilderness or preservation area? Think that would exempt it, at least.

They call that rat race/trap "Uptown." There is nothing up about it except traffic and too many tourists (technically I guess we are tourists, but we blend like My Cousin Vinnie did in Alabama!).

We prefer to go even further out to Cornville, Jerome and Cottonwood to escape the crowds. Sedona is surrounded by the Coconino National Forest, and the Red Rock-Secret Mountain Wilderness is a 47,195-acre wilderness area located within the Coconino National Forest. Sometimes we will drive north of Uptown to hike in the areas bordering Flagstaff and Sedona.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Again no. Go to a BOE meeting and you will be surprised who and what is full and part time.

No it does help the argument. You claimed 3 occupations. Nurses cops and teachers have nowhere to live and need affordable housing. If you used part time or other low paying jobs there wouldn’t have been a discussion. You now change the argument again. I’m done. Have a great day.

You said you were done back when you falsely claimed every teacher is earning enough not to qualify. You didn't provide any nurse salaries but happy to go through the cop ones and see how you're wrong there too.

 

[NotInRHouse]

True. But they don't need to live in Brielle.

To be honest many in elementary or HS education would prefer not to live where they work.

Sure. If the idea is surrounding towns would collaborate, I think it's great. I'm sure the state would too.

But as we see here, looks like Wall would be opposed and I'm sure Howell too. Manasquan doesn't have the space really.

And can't push everyone to Brick. No towns that this board says are crappy. :)

 

[NotInRHouse]

This story has been making the rounds on social media and on my Arizona hiking and mountain biking accounts. Would not be surprised if politicians threw their rich buddies some federal forest land in the name of providing housing and solving the housing shortage "problem."

OPINION: Don't buy the administration's plans for public lands

Since Jan. 20, the Trump administration has announced a plethora of ideas for America’s public lands, like boosting energy production, increasing logging and mining, even building data centers. Administration officials

www.abqjournal.com

What I don't understand is that most of this property has to be very far from places people want to live. As I understand it, Las Vegas would be the major exception, and I guess an important one as it's so close politically.

Does anyone know of any federal land in this area that can be used? Sandy Hook?

If they're going to give up military bases like Earle, that would be huge. But that's not how I am reading it.

 

[NotInRHouse]

If they were remote, they wouldn't have to be near the vicinity.

I'm not advocating for that, but it is another solution to the problem under discussion. But last thing I want is to give more Californians another reason to move, teachers or not.

One idea I had was the state chartering new towns. Places very far west or south where there's a big chunk of cheap land, build some townhomes for 100/200, single family 3/4. And market it to remote people who like the outdoors and don't need to be near cities. And maybe even give some credits- say, you went to a state U, 10k off. NJ HS, 10k off. Public employee, 10k off. Partner with developers. And build some cool amenities.

But would need the surrounding towns not to raise a stink, which I am not sure they would do.

Doing what CA and TX have done and automatically double zoning (eg- all 1 acre zoning becomes 1/2 acre statewide) I think would cause a meltdown.

 

[e5fdny]

Sure. If the idea is surrounding towns would collaborate, I think it's great. I'm sure the state would too.

But as we see here, looks like Wall would be opposed and I'm sure Howell too. Manasquan doesn't have the space really.

And can't push everyone to Brick. No towns that this board says are crappy. :)

What do you mean collaborate?

And there isn’t much space at all in many of the towns that touch the ocean. It is what it is.🤷‍♂️

 

[kupuna133]

You said you were done back when you falsely claimed every teacher is earning enough not to qualify. You didn't provide any nurse salaries but happy to go through the cop ones and see how you're wrong there too.

You have a strange way of twisting peoples words to create a false narrative. Provided the police salaries and averages in the 3 geographic regions in the state. Others have provided average salaries of nurses so there is no need to feed your initial argument. Because you continue to get lost on your own head. I know many LPN’s that wouldn’t qualify. And we were discussing Nurses with generally accepted definition of Nurse being RN/BSN. But you asked for it so here you go.

Given New Jersey’s high cost of living and proximity to major healthcare hubs, starting salaries are generally above the national average. Based on these sources, a reasonable estimate for a BSN starting salary in New Jersey in 2025 is approximately $80,000 to $97,000 per year, with variations based on city (e.g., higher in Jersey City or Newark) and healthcare facility. For the most accurate figure, check specific job postings on sites like ZipRecruiter.

ZipRecruiter response below:

The starting salary for a BSN (Bachelor of Science in Nursing) graduate in New Jersey can vary, but generally ranges from $77,200 to $104,300 annually. This translates to an hourly rate between $37 and $50. Entry-level BSN salaries can be found on ZipRecruiter.




So if a starting salary and only salary is above the income limits. What does 1-5-10 years in look like? And with total compensation. Factoring shift differentials/ weekend/ holidays/ and overtime. Total comp will be significantly higher. Further not allowing for nurses to be considered low/moderate income.

I’m sure you’ll make up a new scenario so it doesn’t matter.

 

[fsg2]

One idea I had was the state chartering new towns. Places very far west or south where there's a big chunk of cheap land, build some townhomes for 100/200, single family 3/4. And market it to remote people who like the outdoors and don't need to be near cities. And maybe even give some credits- say, you went to a state U, 10k off. NJ HS, 10k off. Public employee, 10k off. Partner with developers. And build some cool amenities.

But would need the surrounding towns not to raise a stink, which I am not sure they would do.

Doing what CA and TX have done and automatically double zoning (eg- all 1 acre zoning becomes 1/2 acre statewide) I think would cause a meltdown.

Not necessarily independently chartered towns, but they have done a nice job of building housing communities similar to that around western cities and hubs. Single family house and townhome developments, many aimed at "active seniors" and remote workers, built nearby major outdoor rec and/or city centers, public transit. Many of the developments include their own brand-new public/private trail systems built at the same time, plus varying degrees of other amenities.

Of course they range right up to gated luxury resorts, but I have seen more affordable ones, some specifically designated as such, some just focused on smaller apartments/condos and not expensive houses.

 

[NotInRHouse]

What do you mean collaborate?

And there isn’t much space at all in many of the towns that touch the ocean. It is what it is.🤷‍♂️

Say for example if we're dealing with a small nearly built out town, the "burden" of affordable units would move. So build those 10 units in Wall versus Brielle, because it's obviously commutable.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You have a strange way of twisting peoples words to create a false narrative. Provided the police salaries and averages in the 3 geographic regions in the state. Others have provided average salaries of nurses so there is no need to feed your initial argument. Because you continue to get lost on your own head. I know many LPN’s that wouldn’t qualify. And we were discussing Nurses with generally accepted definition of Nurse being RN/BSN. But you asked for it so here you go.

Given New Jersey’s high cost of living and proximity to major healthcare hubs, starting salaries are generally above the national average. Based on these sources, a reasonable estimate for a BSN starting salary in New Jersey in 2025 is approximately $80,000 to $97,000 per year, with variations based on city (e.g., higher in Jersey City or Newark) and healthcare facility. For the most accurate figure, check specific job postings on sites like ZipRecruiter.

ZipRecruiter response below:

The starting salary for a BSN (Bachelor of Science in Nursing) graduate in New Jersey can vary, but generally ranges from $77,200 to $104,300 annually. This translates to an hourly rate between $37 and $50. Entry-level BSN salaries can be found on ZipRecruiter.




So if a starting salary and only salary is above the income limits. What does 1-5-10 years in look like? And with total compensation. Factoring shift differentials/ weekend/ holidays/ and overtime. Total comp will be significantly higher. Further not allowing for nurses to be considered low/moderate income.

I’m sure you’ll make up a new scenario so it doesn’t matter.

So 77k and 80k are less than 86k here on Earth for a nurse with a kid, lol, putting he or she under the limit...

Thanks for proving my point...again

 

[NotInRHouse]

Not necessarily independently chartered towns, but they have done a nice job of building housing communities similar to that around western cities and hubs. Single family house and townhome developments, many aimed at "active seniors" and remote workers, built nearby major outdoor rec and/or city centers, public transit. Many of the developments include their own brand-new public/private trail systems built at the same time, plus varying degrees of other amenities.

Of course they range right up to gated luxury resorts, but I have seen more affordable ones, some specifically designated as such, some just focused on smaller apartments/condos and not expensive houses.

Yeah like a Sun City. It's definitely doable here. I just think there's more NIMBYs than out West- ironically in Arizona I read they're having issues with running out of water. Not a problem here but we still can't around these little towns and the attitudes some have- as well demonstrated in this thread.

 

[kupuna133]

So 77k and 80k are less than 86k here on Earth for a nurse with a kid, lol, putting he or she under the limit...

Thanks for proving my point...again

Again not understanding what “salary” and total compensation are? Aren’t many nurses that don’t have some sort of overtime or shift holiday differential added to the equation. Also move the scenario again like I predicted. It was single person coming home from college not having a place to live. Then you threw out specific “ heart string” professions, like cop, nurse,teacher. Then when that was discredited, you moved to single parent with multiple children. You’re incredible.

I hope you’re not in a position where it calls for analytical thought, compensation or managing a balance sheet

 

[e5fdny]

Say for example if we're dealing with a small nearly built out town, the "burden" of affordable units would move. So build those 10 units in Wall versus Brielle, because it's obviously commutable.

Well some of the wealthier towns have done that with their Mt. Laurel credits.