OT: Any Burned Out Teachers in Here?

[RUTBAY1]

Tenure seems to not be as important because almost all districts have teacher shortages

You can easily find a new job

"You can easily find a job" - I would like to know where you are getting this information.

Counter-example #1: My wife is in the business, for a recent opening at her school they had 200 applicants. They picked someone with connections to current staff (i.e. nepotism).

Counter-example #2: My daughter recently graduated with a teaching degree from TCNJ as the #1 student in her cohort. TCNJ is one of the top colleges in the area for a teaching diploma. She had a very hard time finding a job after responding to every local posting in the South Jersey area. Finally found a job only because she had value in a niche concentration.

When I get a chance to read the rest of these pages I'll provide my input to this discussion. For now I will say that there are too many teaching degrees awarded. Teacher's union management continually puts out news about current or impending teacher shortages. It's nonsense but it's in their interest keep perceived demand high and salaries relatively low in order to keep their jobs. The system is definitely broken with plenty of blame to go around to all parties.

 

[rutgersdave]

"You can easily find a job" - I would like to know where you are getting this information.

Counter-example #1: My wife is in the business, for a recent opening at her school they had 200 applicants. They picked someone with connections to current staff (i.e. nepotism).

Counter-example #2: My daughter recently graduated with a teaching degree from TCNJ as the #1 student in her cohort. TCNJ is one of the top colleges in the area for a teaching diploma. She had a very hard time finding a job after responding to every local posting in the South Jersey area. Finally found a job only because she had value in a niche concentration.

When I get a chance to read the rest of these pages I'll provide my input to this discussion. For now I will say that there are too many teaching degrees awarded. Teacher's union management continually puts out news about current or impending teacher shortages. It's nonsense but it's in their interest keep perceived demand high and salaries relatively low in order to keep their jobs. The system is definitely broken with plenty of blame to go around to all parties.

The shortages are in other states where the pay is much lower than NJ. In Florida, they don’t even need a college degree to teach in schools.

 

[RUTBAY1]

The shortages are in other states where the pay is much lower than NJ. In Florida, they don’t even need a college degree to teach in schools.

Thanks for clarifying that point.

My personal experience is NJ where I hear the claim as well. In the case of NJ it is complete BS (with the exception of the Camden district).

 

[Caliknight]

Based on results, teachers are failing massively across the board.

This country needs a complete “reimagining” of its public education system. It’s broken.

Get rid of unions for starters.

 

[tico brown]

I read the first article, which is opinion. I agree with him there is a retention problem.

I Googled teaching jobs in Delaware. There are over 300 teaching positions unfilled. To me that's a shortage.

Why do you think they are unfilled?

Because no one wants to be bothered being paid a pittance for all the work they do while being blamed for everything they have no control over.

 

[Plum Street]

I am surprised no one mentioned gym teachers. A really good gig is public school elementary gym. Lots of former athletes , who aren’t necessarily great scholars, go into this. Some scholars do too.
You can make good money and also coach and do camps and such in some districts . You get to wear sweatpants and jerseys to work. Play kickball and shoot hoops.
No parents care to be up your ass for elementary gym and they don’t visit you on parent teachers night.
I never met one elementary gym teacher that didn’t like their job. All they say is just make sure you have an iron clad lesson plan (even if you don’t follow it) and make sure you are supervising the kids so they don’t get hurt and sue.

 

[tom1944]

And after you retire next year, what’s your pension per year over the next 50years?

50 years is to long. The pension calculation is all based off of actuarial data. Most likely the average pension is around 30 years.

He also contributed 7.5% of his salary to the pension. Similar to a 401K and more than is contributed to social security.

Many people complain that social security severely underpays based on what individuals contribute but then claim the pension is too generous. I have even heard that if social security allowed me to invest on my own, I would get 3 to 5 times what I get.

Most pensions are not 3 to 5 times the social security the people receive.

There are some great things about the initial 3 tiers of the pension less in tier 4 and tier 5 is terrible. The best thing about the pension is that it removes individual investment risk. Not that is any better than a decent 401k with a match.

 

[tom1944]

"You can easily find a job" - I would like to know where you are getting this information.

Counter-example #1: My wife is in the business, for a recent opening at her school they had 200 applicants. They picked someone with connections to current staff (i.e. nepotism).

Counter-example #2: My daughter recently graduated with a teaching degree from TCNJ as the #1 student in her cohort. TCNJ is one of the top colleges in the area for a teaching diploma. She had a very hard time finding a job after responding to every local posting in the South Jersey area. Finally found a job only because she had value in a niche concentration.

When I get a chance to read the rest of these pages I'll provide my input to this discussion. For now I will say that there are too many teaching degrees awarded. Teacher's union management continually puts out news about current or impending teacher shortages. It's nonsense but it's in their interest keep perceived demand high and salaries relatively low in order to keep their jobs. The system is definitely broken with plenty of blame to go around to all parties.

My daughter is looking and interviewed at 5 districts and received multiple offers. Has not taken any yet but is weighing the benefit of several districts to her current one.

 

[mdk01]

50 years is to long. The pension calculation is all based off of actuarial data. Most likely the average pension is around 30 years.

He also contributed 7.5% of his salary to the pension. Similar to a 401K and more than is contributed to social security.

Many people complain that social security severely underpays based on what individuals contribute but then claim the pension is too generous. I have even heard that if social security allowed me to invest on my own, I would get 3 to 5 times what I get.

Most pensions are not 3 to 5 times the social security the people receive.

There are some great things about the initial 3 tiers of the pension less in tier 4 and tier 5 is terrible. The best thing about the pension is that it removes individual investment risk. Not that is any better than a decent 401k with a match.

Almost risk free is the wildcard here. Social Security calculations favor lower income recipients slightly. And it definitely benefitted in a major way recipients who worked mostly before the contribution base was increased annually for inflation starting in 1983. And that started 10 years AFTER benefits got an annual cola boost. So the Boomers and subsequent generations paid for those benefits for our parents and grandparents but may get smacked if the currents and future problems aren't solved. But those who say they would get 3 to 5 times as much, certainly possible. But if the markets tank shortly before they retire, or go into a 1969-1982 slump it would be a different story.

 

[RUTBAY1]

My daughter is looking and interviewed at 5 districts and received multiple offers. Has not taken any yet but is weighing the benefit of several districts to her current one.

Care to share district names or counties in which these districts are located? It could be a regional thing, where my wife works they are sending out rice notices to non-tenured teachers)

EDIT: It seems like she is already an employed teacher and is probably early career. New grads seem to be having a very tough time.

 

[newell138]

Care to share district names or counties in which these districts are located? It could be a regional thing, where my wife works they are sending out rice notices to non-tenured teachers)

Thats what happened at my daughters current school in Upper Twsp, NJ. Not sure what they are going to do having 25 or so less teachers next year.

 

[RUTGERS95]

The shortages are in other states where the pay is much lower than NJ. In Florida, they don’t even need a college degree to teach in schools.

well given how utterly ignorant and incompetent many teachers are today, do you even need a college degree? I've met many many truly dumb teachers that outside of their direct syllabus, they are lost. That doesn't even take into consideration teaching to a curriculum which negates individual contribution to the practice.

As for Florida, they must be doing something right as they have more kids taking calculus in HS (as a percent) than all but one school north of the mason dixon.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Based on results, teachers are failing massively across the board.

This country needs a complete “reimagining” of its public education system. It’s broken.

Get rid of unions for starters.

100% but it's near impossible to reimagine it given the political and social construct that politicians want.

 

[vkj91]

50 years is to long. The pension calculation is all based off of actuarial data. Most likely the average pension is around 30 years.

He also contributed 7.5% of his salary to the pension. Similar to a 401K and more than is contributed to social security.

Many people complain that social security severely underpays based on what individuals contribute but then claim the pension is too generous. I have even heard that if social security allowed me to invest on my own, I would get 3 to 5 times what I get.

Most pensions are not 3 to 5 times the social security the people receive.

There are some great things about the initial 3 tiers of the pension less in tier 4 and tier 5 is terrible. The best thing about the pension is that it removes individual investment risk. Not that is any better than a decent 401k with a match.

Ok. So wants his pension per year for the next 30 years? People ignore the fact you’d need to have saved millions to get that type of return in retirement

 

[mikebal9]

There are two things being brought up in this thread that go together.
1. Districts are having millions of dollars taken away by the state (except Newark, as one poster said). This is partially true, but not in the way you're stating it. Years ago, the state came up with a fair funding formula for all districts. It gave an exact dollar amount, based on local taxes collected, number of students, etc, that each district deserved, from the state. Then, as only New Jersey could, they completely ignored the formula and gave out whatever they wanted to each district. Over the last several years, NJ Senate bill S2 has been correcting this mistake. Districts like Bound Brook, which was one of the five most underfunded districts in the state, have been steadily increasing, while those that were overfunded have seen their funds decreased to the appropriate levels. Districts were told this would happen, and were told to plan for it. It was not all done in one year, but gradually over the course of many years. If your district had money taken away, it was because they never deserved it in the first place, and they were getting money that should have been going elsewhere.
2. Layoffs are occurring. Look up S2. Find the districts that are gaining money. I bet they're hiring. And I can confidently tell you that any teacher who wants a job can easily find one. In fact, they can get districts to compete for their services and be hired well above step 1 on the salary guide. Again, I serve on my local BOE, so I see the applicants. Many of them accept a job offer, only to pull out when they use it to leverage a better offer from a competing district. This was never the case until a few years ago (I think covid, if I remember correctly).

 

[tom1944]

Care to share district names or counties in which these districts are located? It could be a regional thing, where my wife works they are sending out rice notices to non-tenured teachers)

EDIT: It seems like she is already an employed teacher and is probably early career. New grads seem to be having a very tough time.

She is looking in Central and Southern NJ and yes, she is an experienced teacher. I would not say early career but not quite mid- career either.

The State funding hit a lot of districts. There is a bill that might give 3/4 of State funding cuts back to districts. No layoffs are one of the qualifications to receive the funds.

The 2% cap on budget increases is a problem when you have inflation greater than 2% for multiple years.

 

[tom1944]

Ok. So wants his pension per year for the next 30 years? People ignore the fact you’d need to have saved millions to get that type of return in retirement

Yes, the pension alleviates a lot of the risk, but it is also funded similar to a 401k with both the employer and employee making contributions.

It is very similar to social security. Do you think social security pays a fair amount for what you contribute?

 

[tom1944]

Thats what happened at my daughters current school in Upper Twsp, NJ. Not sure what they are going to do having 25 or so less teachers next year.

The new bill on funding should help.

 

[vkj91]

Yes, the pension alleviates a lot of the risk, but it is also funded similar to a 401k with both the employer and employee making contributions.

It is very similar to social security. Do you think social security pays a fair amount for what you contribute?

SS is capped. I will never come close to getting out of it what I put in.

• Age 62: The maximum benefit is $2,710 per month
• Full retirement age: Between 66 and 67, the maximum benefit is $3,822 per month
• Age 70: The maximum benefit is $4,873 per month, but only if you wait until 70 to start receiving benefits

How are these two things anything alike?

 

[RUTBAY1]

She is looking in Central and Southern NJ and yes, she is an experienced teacher. I would not say early career but not quite mid- career either.

The State funding hit a lot of districts. There is a bill that might give 3/4 of State funding cuts back to districts. No layoffs are one of the qualifications to receive the funds.

The 2% cap on budget increases is a problem when you have inflation greater than 2% for multiple years.

Good to hear that she is able to find something. My daughter graduated TCNJ with an MS, her lowest grade was a single A- (i.e., top of her class), very highly rated student teacher evaluations, got only 2 interviews for Gen Ed. Finally ended up in a SJ district but not until after sending out many many resumes. Accepted a job in Deaf Ed which was not what she ended up wanting to do but took the job anyway.

 

[CoachCap36]

Im a 3rd year teacher and I am already looking forward to retirement.

 

[tom1944]

SS is capped. I will never come close to getting out of it what I put in.

• Age 62: The maximum benefit is $2,710 per month
• Full retirement age: Between 66 and 67, the maximum benefit is $3,822 per month
• Age 70: The maximum benefit is $4,873 per month, but only if you wait until 70 to start receiving benefits

How are these two things anything alike?

I believe the pension is now capped for many.

Since 2010

https://www.nj.gov/treasury/pensions/documents/guidebooks/tpafbook.pdf

Better link

 

[vkj91]

There are two things being brought up in this thread that go together.
1. Districts are having millions of dollars taken away by the state (except Newark, as one poster said). This is partially true, but not in the way you're stating it. Years ago, the state came up with a fair funding formula for all districts. It gave an exact dollar amount, based on local taxes collected, number of students, etc, that each district deseved, from the state. Then, as only New Jersey could, they completely ignored the formula and gave out whatever they wanted to each district. Over the last several years, NJ Senate bill S2 has been correcting this mistake. Districts like Bound Brook, which was one of the five most underfunded districts in the state, have been steadily increasing, while those that were overfunded have seen their funds decreased to the appropriate levels. Districts were told this would happen, and were told to plan for it. It was not all done in one year, but gradually over the course of many years. If your district had money taken away, it was because they never deserved it in the first place, and they were getting money that should have been going elsewhere.
2. Layoffs are occurring. Look up S2. Find the districts that are gaining money. I bet they're hiring. And I can confidently tell you that any teacher who wants a job can easily find one. In fact, they can get districts to compete for their services and be hired well above step 1 on the salary guide. Again, I serve on my local BOE, so I see the applicants. Many of them accept a job offer, only to pul out when they use it to leverage a better offer from a competing district. This was never the case until a few years ago (I think covid, if I remember correctly).

Since you are very knowledgeable on this stuff maybe you can answer a question for me because I’ve been told different things.
If my wife retires after 10 years, does that allow us to purchase her existing health insurance going forward?

 

[tom1944]

Since you are very knowledgeable on this stuff maybe you can answer a question for me because I’ve been told different things.
If my wife retires after 10 years, does that allow us to purchase her existing health insurance going forward?

Just Cobra

 

[mdk01]

SS is capped. I will never come close to getting out of it what I put in.

• Age 62: The maximum benefit is $2,710 per month
• Full retirement age: Between 66 and 67, the maximum benefit is $3,822 per month
• Age 70: The maximum benefit is $4,873 per month, but only if you wait until 70 to start receiving benefits

How are these two things anything alike?

Unless you die young, I'm not sure that's accurate. Saying you could have done better investing yourself is one thing. Not even getting your contributions back is very different.

 

[vkj91]

I believe the pension is now capped for many.

Since 2010

N.J. ASSEMBLY APPROVES THREE PENSION & BENEFIT REFORM MEASURES - New Jersey Assembly Democrats

Will Save Local Governments and Schools $314 Million Next Fiscal Year(TRENTON) -- The Assembly on Monday approved three bills reforming New Jersey's pension and health benefits system, including one measure that would save local governments and schools $314 million in the fiscal year starting...

www.assemblydems.com

Annual Benefit = 54.5 percent X last year or highest 12 months of salary; orAt least 35 years of service at age 55 or older. Annual Benefit = Years of Service ÷ 55 X Highest 12 Months of Salary.

Doesn’t say anything about being capped

 

[vkj91]

Just Cobra

Cobra is only for like 18 months though.

 

[dconifer]

I am surprised no one mentioned gym teachers. A really good gig is public school elementary gym. Lots of former athletes , who aren’t necessarily great scholars, go into this. Some scholars do too.
You can make good money and also coach and do camps and such in some districts . You get to wear sweatpants and jerseys to work. Play kickball and shoot hoops.
No parents care to be up your ass for elementary gym and they don’t visit you on parent teachers night.
I never met one elementary gym teacher that didn’t like their job. All they say is just make sure you have an iron clad lesson plan (even if you don’t follow it) and make sure you are supervising the kids so they don’t get hurt and sue.

Yeah. There are several people in this thread ripping new a-holes for all teachers of all ages in all places. I don't do "meme level" discussions that involve mass generalizations about people neither I nor they know, so I stayed out of it. But for what it's worth, the stereotype they are talking about is the gym teacher one...

 

[hoochie302]

well given how utterly ignorant and incompetent many teachers are today, do you even need a college degree? I've met many many truly dumb teachers that outside of their direct syllabus, they are lost. That doesn't even take into consideration teaching to a curriculum which negates individual contribution to the practice.

As for Florida, they must be doing something right as they have more kids taking calculus in HS (as a percent) than all but one school north of the mason dixon.

Let me guess......you are a hardcore right winger who gets his panties in a bunch over a rainbow flag.

What do you do for a living?

 

[tom1944]

Capped at social security max

https://www.nj.gov/treasury/pensions/documents/forms/sc0853.pdf#:~:text=PERS%20salary%20limited%20to%20Social%20Security%20maximum%20wage,week%20for%20local%20government%20or%20local%20education%20employees.

Since tier 2 in 2008

 

[gef21]

Used to be. Went from public school to private. Never going back.

 

[Plum Street]

Yeah. There are several people in this thread ripping new a-holes for all teachers of all ages in all places. I don't do "meme level" discussions that involve mass generalizations about people neither I nor they know, so I stayed out of it. But for what it's worth, the stereotype they are talking about is the gym teacher one...

Well, the elementary gym teachers I know is what I described . I believe it to be accurate.
Thats just the way it is.

 

[vkj91]

Unless you die young, I'm not sure that's accurate. Saying you could have done better investing yourself is one thing. Not even getting your contributions back is very different.

Fair enough. I could have worded it better. Assume you paid to contribution for 25 years, retire ant 50, and don’t collect until 70. That’s almost 300k minus interest just sitting for 20 years.

 

[vkj91]

Let me guess......you are a hardcore right winger who gets his panties in a bunch over a rainbow flag.

What do you do for a living?

You don’t need to be a “hard core right winger” to know rainbow flags have no place in a classroom but you do you.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Good to hear that she is able to find something. My daughter graduated TCNJ with an MS, her lowest grade was a single A- (i.e., top of her class), very highly rated student teacher evaluations, got only 2 interviews for Gen Ed. Finally ended up in a SJ district but not until after sending out many many resumes. Accepted a job in Deaf Ed which was not what she ended up wanting to do but took the job anyway.

Teachers with specialties in special education are desperately in need. It's likely the schools that pay top dollar that can be most selective at gen ed and then rougher districts needing specialists desperately looking for people.

Some districts also are losing population versus some gaining which also weighs in.

 

[dconifer]

Well, the elementary gym teachers I know is what I described . I believe it to be accurate.
Thats just the way it is.

I see a lot of that, too. The gym teachers do seem to have the short hours, least "overhead" work, no need to buy supplies out of their own pocket, most freedom/willingness to take days off during the year. Now I'm the one stereotyping; but I don't disagree with you...

 

[Plum Street]

I see a lot of that, too. The gym teachers do seem to have the short hours, least "overhead" work, no need to buy supplies out of their own pocket, most freedom/willingness to take days off during the year. Now I'm the one stereotyping; but I don't disagree with you...

Yes and they do have more “free” time. I have seen some continue their educations and become administrators.

 

[tom1944]

Teachers with specialties in special education are desperately in need. It's likely the schools that pay top dollar that can be most selective at gen ed and then rougher districts needing specialists desperately looking for people.

Some districts also are losing population versus some gaining which also weighs in.

Ocean county is impacted by the changing demographics.

Also, the previous funding formula overpaid the large Ocean County towns and underpaid the large Middlesex county towns.

 

[dconifer]

Yes and they do have more “free” time. I have seen some continue their educations and become administrators.

Ha ha, our onetime HS Principal at Washington Township High School, who went on to be superintendent, started out as a gym teacher. He once derided a chemistry teacher who was asking for more lab time by saying "It takes a gym teacher more time to set up a volleyball net than it does to set up a chemistry lab." He also mocked teachers who complained about what a problem cell phones are at a staff meeting...

 

[yesrutgers01]

Let me guess......you are a hardcore right winger who gets his panties in a bunch over a rainbow flag.

What do you do for a living?

I don't think the political stuff is needed with him...
It's funny though, 95 seemed to reference a few times that he is employed in some capacity in the education system.
and then he does nothing but basically call teachers lazy, ungrateful, anyone can do it, dumb etc...

Just very strange person