OT: Car Argument - "The Perfect Car"

[RU4Real]

I've been covering these needs for the past dozen years with two vehicles:

• 1999 BMW Z-3 coupe (not an M, but a rock-solid performer). I'm finally getting to really break it in around the canyon roads in CA. It's my daily driver.
• 1996 Ford Bronco - for hauling, beach use and tailgating. I'll buy another big Bronco in a heart beat, especially if a CA vehicle that wasn't tainted by road salt. Current one has the 5L engine. Had another 1996 with the 5.8L engine. Driving range was nearly 400 miles.

Like Mildone lamented - there really isn't a new SUV that piques my interest - at least not one worth spending in excess of $50k.

I have a funny Z-3 story.

In the spring of '06 I took my new A4 to AP Tuning in Lancaster, PA for the full APR Stage 2 install - updated ECU, intake and exhaust to bring the car to about 300 hp and 320 lb/ft. On the way home I was "testing" my purchase on the PA Turnpike and came across 2 kids in what I believe was probably Dad's Z-3 convertible who decided they wanted to play outrun.

I pulled in front of the pretty easily and as we were accelerating through about 140 I looked in the rear view just in time to see the roof blow clean off the car. They slammed on the brakes and skidded to the shoulder while I went on my way thinking about how they were going to explain this to dad.

 

[mildone]

The Speed3 is no longer a thing.

The GTI doesn't compete directly with the WRX - that's what the Golf R is for. Interestingly, however, C&D is on the record as preferring the straight GTI over the latest WRX, which has failed to mature. In a head to head comparison between the Golf R, the WRX and the Focus R, the Golf R won walking away.

I also like the Cayman. Although for the money I'd have to seriously consider the Jag F. I think it's better looking and may be generally more livable than the Cayman.

Full-sized SUVs are tough these days. The prices have been hyperinflated because everybody suddenly thinks they're cool, again. I recommended this in another thread, but I'll reiterate for you - pass on the "usual suspects" and take a good look at the Durango.

Prices for SUV's are ridiculous right now, this is true. When gas prices rise again, a lot of people are going to be unhappy w/their cool SUVs. :)

I think the Jag is beautiful and I think you're right about it's livability. And before I plunk down any money, I'll do my due diligence w/some test drives that will include it.

But, you know, the GT4 speaks to me. The second gen GT4 hasn't even appeared yet, but I can hear it calling me in my sleep. And insofar as livability, I've been driving around on a race suspension cranked to full stiffness on all four corners in the MS3 - so I'm used to potholes being bone-jarring. And livability is what the SUV is for anyway.

I will take a look at the Durango. Insofar as the SUV goes, I don't care about looks or gas mileage at all. I just want height, seating for 7 or 8, and creature comforts and very good reliability. Been looking (online) at Mercs and Lexus since the cost of Suburban's (which I have and have loved for 19 years) is way up there already.

Who knows. Last time I set out to buy an SUV and I got the MS3 instead. So who knows what will happen this time.

 

[RU4Real]

But, you know, the GT4 speaks to me. The second gen GT4 hasn't even appeared yet, but I can hear it calling me in my sleep.

It's definitely gorgeous. Additional surface excitement tends to detract from a lot of designs, but the GT4 body carries it really well.

I just don't see how I could own one and not get stopped all. the. time. One of the reasons I've really liked my Audis has been that they seem to fly under the radar pretty well. That's a tough thing to give up.

 

[mildone]

I've been covering these needs for the past dozen years with two vehicles:

• 1999 BMW Z-3 coupe (not an M, but a rock-solid performer). I'm finally getting to really break it in around the canyon roads in CA. It's my daily driver.
• 1996 Ford Bronco - for hauling, beach use and tailgating. I'll buy another big Bronco in a heart beat, especially if a CA vehicle that wasn't tainted by road salt. Current one has the 5L engine. Had another 1996 with the 5.8L engine. Driving range was nearly 400 miles.

Like Mildone lamented - there really isn't a new SUV that piques my interest - at least not one worth spending in excess of $50k.

And $50K is really just the entry point on middle tier full size SUVs. That's my conundrum. I don't really like ANY of them yet any one I'm likely to get will wind up being at least 60K. Who wants to spend 60K+ on a car one doesn't actually like?

I don't know. For the SUV, I want something that will last forever (like my 19 year old Suburban). So maybe I should be looking at Toyota Sequoia.

 

[RU4Real]

And $50K is really just the entry point on middle tier full size SUVs. That's my conundrum. I don't really like ANY of them yet any one I'm likely to get will wind up being at least 60K. Who wants to spend 60K+ on a car one doesn't actually like?

I don't know. For the SUV, I want something that will last forever (like my 19 year old Suburban). So maybe I should be looking at Toyota Sequoia.

Is it something that you need a lot? How would you define your typical use case?

 

[mildone]

I just don't see how I could own one and not get stopped all. the. time. One of the reasons I've really liked my Audis has been that they seem to fly under the radar pretty well. That's a tough thing to give up.

This is very true. And something I've considered. Basically, any obvious sports car needs to be driven reasonably close to the speed limit most of the time.

 

[mildone]

Is it something that you need a lot? How would you define your typical use case?

That's a good question. Things are a little bit in flux at the moment. But I think, for the moment, I'll use it regularly only once per week, plus road-trips here and there. OTOH, my kids will use it more often - probably close to daily.

If I get the GT4 (or similar), then probably I'd only use the SUV for road-trips or when there's bad weather, but again, the kids will probably use it more regularly for now.

 

[RU4Real]

This is very true. And something I've considered. Basically, any obvious sports car needs to be driven reasonably close to the speed limit most of the time.

I took the little one back to Dickinson on Saturday. It never fails that move-in day is the same weekend as Carlisle's "Biggest Corvette Show in the World".

On the way home I kept passing all these nice, shiny Corvettes. Some old, some new, all of them running scared at 66 mph in the right lane of the PATP. I'm in a line of half a dozen cars doing 100++. Zero f*cks given. But it seems like the guy in the Eye Searing Canary Yellow C7 knows that the instant he nails the pedal the Gods of Karma & Law Enforcement will appear from nowhere to flatbed his car and drag him off in chains.

I couldn't live like that.

 

[RU4Real]

That's a good question. Things are a little bit in flux at the moment. But I think, for the moment, I'll use it regularly only once per week, plus road-trips here and there. OTOH, my kids will use it more often - probably close to daily.

If I get the GT4 (or similar), then probably I'd only use the SUV for road-trips or when there's bad weather, but again, the kids will probably use it more regularly for now.

So then you don't really need a monster, right?

I'd peel some layers off the cash commitment onion and take a look at, say, the Ford Edge. It's big enough for pretty much anything and if you really wanted to pour some money into it you could get the Edge Sport with the 365 hp twin-turbo V6 and all the various performance accoutrements, in blacked-out black with the Alcantara sport seats and you'd still be a total badass.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Full-size SUVs are a terrible rip-off. You can get a fully loaded mid-size for less than base of many a full-size. And for what - you better use every inch of that added space. Outside of Mormon families commuting through the world's greatest snow, why?

That said, I'd throw a look at the new Nissan Armada. I know 4Real's gonna go off on Nissans, but they just released pricing at a fairly affordable $44K base, and it's based on the international Patrol platform (also under the Infiniti QX80) for extra man points. It's ugly as sin, but what SUV really gets the lassies wet? I have a 2012 Pathfinder (the last year it was an SUV and not a big, goofy crossover) and love it.

 

[RU4Real]

Full-size SUVs are a terrible rip-off. You can get a fully loaded mid-size for less than base of many a full-size. And for what - you better use every inch of that added space. Outside of Mormon families commuting through the world's greatest snow, why?

That said, I'd throw a look at the new Nissan Armada. I know 4Real's gonna go off on Nissans, but they just released pricing at a fairly affordable $44K base, and it's based on the international Patrol platform (also under the Infiniti QX80) for extra man points. It's ugly as sin, but what SUV really gets the lassies wet? I have a 2012 Pathfinder (the last year it was an SUV and not a big, goofy crossover) and love it.

The Armada is entirely respectable.

My issues with Nissan are exactly two: First, they have this weird passion for fugly interiors (Z-coupe) and second, STOP WITH THE USELESS CVTs!!!!

Notice the Armada has an actual transmission instead of two pulleys connected by a rubber band.

That said, it's still a full-size ute. For my money, I'd stick with the Edge Sport. It reinforces your point that you generally only need so much space.

 

[RU Golfer]

How about one of these?

HD Fatboy
C3 427 BB
C6 Z06
F150 Lariat Super Crew

 

[mildone]

So then you don't really need a monster, right?

I'd peel some layers off the cash commitment onion and take a look at, say, the Ford Edge. It's big enough for pretty much anything and if you really wanted to pour some money into it you could get the Edge Sport with the 365 hp twin-turbo V6 and all the various performance accoutrements, in blacked-out black with the Alcantara sport seats and you'd still be a total badass.

Not really interested in a cross-over (too in-between for me) and I want seating up to at least 7.

Just looked at the Durango online. Pretty interesting. Inexpensive and has seating up to 7. It's on the list to look at more closely. One thing w/Dodge I'd have to closely vet is the reliability.

 

[RUSK97]

Just got done watching a half-hour episode of Vice's new show 'Black Market' regarding the Newark car theft 'industry'. Just damn scary. You might want to check out the episode for yourself. Yeah, there's the usual, "We do this because we have to, to put food on the table" slant, but it's still pretty interesting. Host drives around with a former car thief who points out how easy it is to jack a car. Touches on the story a year or two back when a guy at the Short Hills Mall got shot for fighting back. Forget the fancy cars, give me that circa 1997 Dodge Neon!

http://www.vice.com/read/viceland-black-market-full-episode

 

[RU4Real]

Not really interested in a cross-over (too in-between for me) and I want seating up to at least 7.

Just looked at the Durango online. Pretty interesting. Inexpensive and has seating up to 7. It's on the list to look at more closely. One thing w/Dodge I'd have to closely vet is the reliability.

My back to back Durangos were 1st year and 4th year. Both were absolutely bullet-proof. Check them out, make sure they haven't slipped, but I loved them.

 

[FanuSanu52]

How about one of these?

HD Fatboy
C3 427 BB
C6 Z06
F150 Lariat Super Crew

Yes, exactly one of those.

 

[FanuSanu52]

My back to back Durangos were 1st year and 4th year. Both were absolutely bullet-proof. Check them out, make sure they haven't slipped, but I loved them.

I didn't have such great luck with my 1st-gen Durango, but I can say that it's comfy to sleep in - sized perfectly for an average sized man, and they only got longer from there. A good thing if hooker n blow Tuesdays runs a little late and you have to car camp in a back alley. Or, if you want to host hooker n blow night, and the kids happen to claim the house, it's pretty good for gennie gymnastics as well ... one hooker at a time and cowgirl/reverse cowgirl is out of the question.

 

[Cruising Route 66]

Meh.

It's a RWD pig that maxes out at 24 mpg highway. It has no handling reflexes at all and 360 hp isn't enough in a 4400 lb. car.

You can get precisely the same characteristics in a Charger / 300 for half the money.

Actually, a Charger R/T handles better, has more power and weighs a little less.

If you're looking for a good horsepower to weight ratio vehicle that handles well, I'd check out the McLarens. You can pick one up certified used for around $200K. They top out at slightly over 200MPH and get around 11 MPG combined city/highway. Great for tailgating and taking the kid to school and the best part is you'll be able to outrun the cops if you're caught speeding. :)

 

[theRU]

Interesting changes coming to caddy... Just what i expected. Something below the escalade but above the SRX/XT5... Good read.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-cadillac-president-just-blow-203000212.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/29/cadillac-xts-future-plans-de-nysschen-report/