When people are against something they use every argument possible.
It does not have to be consistent
OT: Coming to a beach near you in NJ and NY
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It does not have to be consistent
It’s easy, allow me to demonstrate…
You’re knew the internet, apparently. But when all you have are lame insults, the other guy won.
Either come up with a valid logical argument not overflowing with hypocrisy, or else come up with more interesting and creative insults. I enjoy a good fun creative insult exchange, and I’ll be gentle with you ‘cause I can see you’re a little sensitive. So either way works great for me. 🙂
Maybe because it is a long-established energy source that the world and the United States is highly dependent upon? I'm not attacking you, but this seems to be a bad example of a whataboutism, which is a very popular tactic on social media.
While I agree with your first sentence, my answer above sheds more light on why it may be a false equivalence (or poor whataboutism).
That argument could be turned around to say- so you are saying we should be killing more wildlife?
I get the sense, based on his earlier comments, this is all somehow political for him.
In truth, I don’t see how it’s political. But some folks seem entirely unable to think of anything without running it through the politically approved commentary filter first. Perhaps a case of: “what or whom should I be demonizing today?” where logic is frowned upon and us versus them hatreds earn brownie points.
Its not really a whataboutism. The OP is claiming we should not invest in Wind Turbines because they kill birds and I showed an example of the current alternative that kills just as many birds and that is just counting the sea birds killed by tanker oilspills and not birds killed by things like oil sands tailling ponds or smog emissions from oil/gas fired power plants(which some claim to be in the billions).
While there is no denying that Wind Turbines kill birds and reasonable efforts should be take to reduce that, if the OP really cared about how many birds are being killed to generate his electricity, he would be advocating FOR wind turbines and not against them.
They are; there are multiple scholarships reserved for kids in the honors college who are in that stratum, among other excellence awards.
I’d like a full house:
wind, solar, hydro, nuclear and what we have now (with a transition to the other four as they get better).
Right now that’s the winning hand.
wind, solar, hydro, nuclear and what we have now (with a transition to the other four as they get better).
Right now that’s the winning hand.
We are probably not going to fully agree. I am not denying your premise that the the oil industry kills wildlife, and we agree that wind turbines would also kill birds.
Where I am having a disconnect with you argument is where you say if OP really cared about birds being killed, he would be advocating FOR wind turbines. Let's assume OP does care about birds being killed--why would he advocate for something else that kills birds and purportedly causes other issues (noise, aesthetics, interference with fishing and navigation)? Maybe before deploying a newer technology, trial studies and further work could be done to reduce the bad effects (bird killing) instead of plowing forward with a huge project right here and right now.
It goes from stupid post to stupider post, when will it end? Someone needs to find a job and get out from their mother's basement. LOL!!
Are you arguing in favor of oil spills? We hope that the oil companies are not intentionally spilling oil, unless you know otherwise, are you an informant within the industry, what exactly do you know?
Is this meant as a serious response or should I just assume you are trolling and ignore you? And if serious, is that really the direction you want to go?
So my point isn't that this is some else to kill birds, but rather by increasing the number of Wind turbines in replacement for oil based power gen, we are actually reducing the number of birds killed.
Wind power generation isn't really all that new and untested, there have been on-shore wind farms in the US for decades and off-shore wind farms in Europe for close to 20 years. There has been huge amounts of research done.
In terms of the other concerns, specifically noise, aesthetics, etc is a Wind turbine really worse than this?
Are those last two pictures of the Winter Olympics in China ?So my point isn't that this is some else to kill birds, but rather by increasing the number of Wind turbines in replacement for oil based power gen, we are actually reducing the number of birds killed.
Wind power generation isn't really all that new and untested, there have been on-shore wind farms in the US for decades and off-shore wind farms in Europe for close to 20 years. There has been huge amounts of research done.
In terms of the other concerns, specifically noise, aesthetics, etc is a Wind turbine really worse than this?
You make fair points. Maybe the view here in NJ is myopic and unspoiled. Are there oil rigs off the NJ Coast that are visible from the beach?
Maybe there is heightened sensitivity here in NJ? Different issues play differently in different locales.
For example, along parts of the Gulf Coast, locals might feel wind turbines are a major improvement over oil rigs.
We almost had Off shore drilling in NJ until Biden stopped it. Somehow Florida and South Carolina were exempted BY Trump from off shore drilling due to the possibility of oil spills affecting their tourism. No worries about Ocean City and NJ beaches Tourism. Trump always wanted to screw the blue states as his revenge. It took me about 10-15 years to go to the NJ beaches again after the medical syringes scare.So my point isn't that this is some else to kill birds, but rather by increasing the number of Wind turbines in replacement for oil based power gen, we are actually reducing the number of birds killed.
Wind power generation isn't really all that new and untested, there have been on-shore wind farms in the US for decades and off-shore wind farms in Europe for close to 20 years. There has been huge amounts of research done.
In terms of the other concerns, specifically noise, aesthetics, etc is a Wind turbine really worse than this?
Move to allow oil drilling off the Jersey Shore would stop under Biden climate change plan
“The biggest difference is Trump wanted oil wells off our coast and Biden wants windmills. We’ll be looking at green jobs in wind instead of the worrying about oil spills ruining our tourist economy.”
Oil rigs off the Jersey Shore became increasingly unlikely Wednesday when President Joe Biden announced a pause in new oil and gas drilling as part of his efforts to combat climate change.
Biden’s executive orders, signed Wednesday, will block for now former President Donald Trump’s effort to open most of the Atlantic Coast to oil drilling. That was a reversal of President Barack Obama’s decision to keep the Atlantic Coast off limitsthrough at least 2022.
Trump wins in 2024, you get off shore drilling in NJ and the Wind farms. Any oil spill in NJ, you‘ll see a 30% drop in NJ shore tourism. I never went to Galveston beaches when I lived in Houston because some people told me it’s not worth it due the oil film.
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That’s where I am and where I think most people with no specific agenda are. There are pros and cons with all forms of energy. As long as we’re not attempting to make a wholesale shift immediately, we’ll be alright.
We know that a lot of carbon spewing industrialization is harming wildlife too, and quite a few other things. So a slow transition to less carbon-intensive energy production seems reasonable.
Mom says to tell you that you wish you could qualify to live in her basement. And that if you could qualify, then you wouldn’t think having a job was a good thing.
What can I say, mom can be a little snobby about the little people sometimes, in her old age. Sorry.
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My niece had the same deal. Went to RU for some biotech thing, then had multiple fellowship offers from Cornell, UNC, Duke, etc. She ended up going to UNC and got her masters and doctorate and got paid to do so.
in the long run, what I really care about is this farce that its free energy. Electric bills will be doubling and tripling the more we move to wind. This isn't "green" like people pretend it is.
We almost had Off shore drilling in NJ until Biden stopped it. Somehow Florida and South Carolina were exempted BY Trump from off shore drilling due to the possibility of oil spills affecting their tourism. No worries about Ocean City and NJ beaches Tourism. Trump always wanted to screw the blue states as his revenge. It took me about 10-15 years to go to the NJ beaches again after the medical syringes scare.
Move to allow oil drilling off the Jersey Shore would stop under Biden climate change plan
“The biggest difference is Trump wanted oil wells off our coast and Biden wants windmills. We’ll be looking at green jobs in wind instead of the worrying about oil spills ruining our tourist economy.”www.nj.com
Oil rigs off the Jersey Shore became increasingly unlikely Wednesday when President Joe Biden announced a pause in new oil and gas drilling as part of his efforts to combat climate change.
Biden’s executive orders, signed Wednesday, will block for now former President Donald Trump’s effort to open most of the Atlantic Coast to oil drilling. That was a reversal of President Barack Obama’s decision to keep the Atlantic Coast off limitsthrough at least 2022.
Trump wins in 2024, you get off shore drilling in NJ and the Wind farms. Any oil spill in NJ, you‘ll see a 30% drop in NJ shore tourism. I never went to Galveston beaches when I lived in Houston because some people told me it’s not worth it due the oil film.
Murphy already banned that in 2018, so Joe was only 4 years late as usual.
Murphy signs legislation banning oil and gas exploration off NJ coast
Gov. Phil Murphy signed bipartisan legislation Friday banning offshore oil and gas exploration and production off New Jersey's ocean waters.
njbiz.com
It's a great thing for these kids and I feel like schools need to keep working on finding better and better ways of dangling this free school thing in front of HS freshmen kids in a way that will register with more kids. Not easy to do sometimes, because the kids aren't often the one's paying tuition so they fail to see the motivation.
Thing is, if they do well enough in a STEM graduate program, they're gonna wind up with reasonably high starting salary and a fair amount of job security. And many will wind up with stock options as well. It's like the *real* golden ticket to the chocolate factory of life.
We need more STEM majors than ever these days. So whatever we can do to promote it is good for the Unites States.
Sure, but I mean, what isn't over-marketed and over-hyped these days? All politicians are ridiculously over-hyped. All TV shows and movies are over-hyped. All retail sales are over-hyped.
When something isn't being ridiculously over-hyped these days, that's the exception to the rule.
One thing, I disagree about, though. Wind power is pretty green, especially as compared to oil or coal or natural gas. Nothing's perfect, not solar, not nuclear, not wind. But they're probably still better cleaner greener options than petrochemical-based energy, at this point, even with all their imperfections.
Oil rigs can be 25 miles off shore which is actually the domain of the Federal government, Who rules, Federal or state?Murphy already banned that in 2018, so Joe was only 4 years late as usual.
Murphy signs legislation banning oil and gas exploration off NJ coast
Gov. Phil Murphy signed bipartisan legislation Friday banning offshore oil and gas exploration and production off New Jersey's ocean waters.
Governance of offshore minerals and regulation of development activities are bifurcated between state and federal law. Generally, states have primary authority in the area extending three geographical miles from their coasts. The federal government and its comprehensive regulatory regime govern minerals located under federal waters, which extend from the states’ offshore boundaries to at least 200 nautical miles from the shore.
Trump wins in 2024, your beach front property losses value after the oil bids are awarded. Murphy didn’t make the decision for the wind farms, outside of the 3 mile jurisdiction, that was the Federal government and that’s why they received the $4 billion.
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So it’s okay to kill birds for 50 years but a new industry cannot be started because it will kill birds
Have you read the football board lately? If we removed all non sports topics there wouldn’t be much left
It will also surprise our lib/leftist/Dem voters that Republicans in both houses of Congress voted for the mid-sixties civil rights acts at a much higher percentage than their Democratic contemporaries. Yet the KKK member President made sure funds were disproportionately sent to buy the inner city POC vote. Johnson bragged that he was "going to guarantee the N*g**r vote" for generations to come. And over fifty years later the urban Blacks vote over 90% for whatever D is put on the ballot. Johnson was a racist scumbag but he sure knew politics.
No. One used to be the party of elites and big corporations, and the other was the party of the common person. Now that script is flipped, or at least that is what each of their narrative pushing news outlets want you to believe.
No electrical generation is free. In general, I am not a huge fan of offshore wind as it is by far the most expensive of the renewable options. Production cost of electricity is measure by a factor called LCOE which measure the cost to construct, maintain, produce and shutdown a generator over the course of its expected life. Note that this does not include cost of distribution, administration or any tariffs and taxes.
The cost to produce a megawatt-hour of electricity is about $88 by coal and $71 by natural gas. When compared to the different renewable options you can see that offshore is fairly expense but certainly not double or triple:
Utility solar PV field - $56
Onshore Wind - $50
Offshore Wind - $88
Cost of these technologies do continue to improve and lower the LCOEs however, due to the expensive offshore construction costs, off shore wind seems to be plateauing in recent years and not falling as fast as solar.
Also, there is very little chance that any turbine blades will wind up in a landfill. The alloys used for these are fairly valuable and are recycled at the end of their lives.
N.J.’s last two coal plants set to close. ‘A world without coal’ is cleaner, safer, Murphy says.
Gov. Phil Murphy called it a "very good step."
The last two remaining coal-fired plants in the Garden State — both in South Jersey — are preparing to cease operation within months, Gov. Phil Murphy’s administration announced last week.
Murphy called the move a “very good step in the right direction” as the state continues to shift away from fossil fuels and toward renewable, or greener, energy sources. The Democratic governor has set a goal of using only carbon-free — or “clean” — energy sources by 2050.
The Atlantic City Electric Company filed a petition to buy out existing power-purchase agreements and end coal generation at its Logan Plant in Swedesboro and the Chambers plant in Carneys Point on or around May 31. The New Jersey Board of Public Utilities approved the petition Wednesday.
Exelon Corp., the company that owns the facilities, said the move could save customers as much as $30 million.
“The modified agreements are great news for the residents of New Jersey because at long last, we are ending coal generation in our state,” BPU President Joseph Fiordaliso said.
This giant wind turbine blade can be recycled
Energy companies are trying to redesign wind energy so the giant components don’t end up in landfills. Siemens Gamesa’s RecyclableBlade can be broken down into its raw materials at the end of its life.
www.fastcompany.com
I figured they could sink them and use them as artificial reefsThis giant wind turbine blade can be recycled
Energy companies are trying to redesign wind energy so the giant components don’t end up in landfills. Siemens Gamesa’s RecyclableBlade can be broken down into its raw materials at the end of its life.
plenty of use for the turbine blades and companies are now reusing them in different ways. I didn’t want to post the 3-4 articles about the companies creative efforts. It‘s a question of economics and cost. The older wind turbines in Europe are now being brought down.
Here’s a major problem. Our solution is to blame China for not taking US plastic garbage.
Laura Leebrick, a manager at Rogue Disposal & Recycling in southern Oregon, is standing on the end of its landfill watching an avalanche of plastic trash pour out of a semitrailer: containers, bags, packaging, strawberry containers, yogurt cups.
None of this plastic will be turned into new plastic things. All of it is buried.
"To me that felt like it was a betrayal of the public trust," she said. "I had been lying to people ... unwittingly."
Rogue, like most recycling companies, had been sending plastic trash to China, but when China shut its doors two years ago, Leebrick scoured the U.S. for buyers. She could find only someone who wanted white milk jugs. She sends the soda bottles to the state.
But when Leebrick tried to tell people the truth about burying all the other plastic, she says people didn't want to hear it.
I remember the first meeting where I actually told a city council that it was costing more to recycle than it was to dispose of the same material as garbage," she says, "and it was like heresy had been spoken in the room: You're lying. This is gold. We take the time to clean it, take the labels off, separate it and put it here. It's gold. This is valuable."
But it's not valuable, and it never has been. And what's more, the makers of plastic — the nation's largest oil and gas companies — have known this all along, even as they spent millions of dollars telling the American public the opposite.
There so much plastic that they now discovered plastic in people blood stream. You wonder why your relative has cancer?
Plastic found in human blood for the first time. Is this a public health risk?
Evidence of microplastics in human blood requires study to understand health concerns. Production of the life-changing technology looks to quadruple by 2050.
www.marketwatch.com
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