OT: Copa America 2016
- Thread starter Zak57
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Mad: It's hard to compare your average middle class family in America with a poor one Europe or South America.
I'm a fairly soccer-crazed dad and my toddler is exposed to the Euro leagues on TV. When he visits grandpa's house, he sees all the hardware & T-shirts I received when I played. He has Little Kicks on the weekends.
Yet, he's much more likely to be playing with his Hot Wheels or Avengers toys.
In other words, he's got options.
Contrast that with a poor kid kicking around a ball of socks for fun.
Not to mention in the US you have to schedule "play dates" while in say Brazil, you just walk outside and 20+ kids already "got next"...
I'm a fairly soccer-crazed dad and my toddler is exposed to the Euro leagues on TV. When he visits grandpa's house, he sees all the hardware & T-shirts I received when I played. He has Little Kicks on the weekends.
Yet, he's much more likely to be playing with his Hot Wheels or Avengers toys.
In other words, he's got options.
Contrast that with a poor kid kicking around a ball of socks for fun.
Not to mention in the US you have to schedule "play dates" while in say Brazil, you just walk outside and 20+ kids already "got next"...
Oh I agree 100%. My point is that also we are not really centralized in our soccer teachings/mentality here, we have so many youth teams all over the country, identifying top players at a young age to develop the talent is not really as easy as in other countries where youth academy and systems are more structured.
Not sure I agree with much of this considering we've advances out of the group stage the last three competitive tournaments we've been in and have a coach with the highest win percentage in our history.
But in order to continue development what really needs to increase is "pick up" soccer culture similar to how basketball is played throughout the country. If you travel through any country outside this continent you'll see caged pick up soccer courts in every major city in the world. It is on these courts that technical skills and creativity develop across the world. Need to put money into it to break through the top 10. We've already been on the cusp during klinsmans tenure in terms of Fifa rankings (Which has its own faults I know).
But in order to continue development what really needs to increase is "pick up" soccer culture similar to how basketball is played throughout the country. If you travel through any country outside this continent you'll see caged pick up soccer courts in every major city in the world. It is on these courts that technical skills and creativity develop across the world. Need to put money into it to break through the top 10. We've already been on the cusp during klinsmans tenure in terms of Fifa rankings (Which has its own faults I know).
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the next stage of development beyond building up the academies and scouting is to try and promote futsal as a winter sport. futsal has less emphasis on long speed and more on short bursts and quick touch passing. it's also easier to get a 5 a side pickup game than a full 11v11
Good point on the pay-to-play model. This Guardian article is on point.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football
Plus with the youth academy system being a pay-to-play model, some may put game results over actual player development, as the academy/coaches would like to trumpet their tourney results to get more recruits to pay up.
The recent call-ups seem to be pointing to more adept players coming through the ranks, but we're still rather reliant on overseas players (or those US born players who are fortunate enough to develop over there) to get the cohesion & tactical nous we see with other nations.
The continuous structure of the development academies ("no high school soccer" rule) and the increased use of futsal is why I say we will see massive improvement in the next 10 years. If we get the 2026 World Cup, watch out. The next 10 years after that will see even further improvement, and we will establish ourselves as a top 10 soccer country without a doubt.
It takes time, we've only had a pro league for 20 years, and it's only been somewhat decent for 10.
In other news Pulisic has a chance to be special, I see Eden Hazard in his play. That natural skill with such high-quality coaching and talent around him at a young age is exactly what we've lacked in the past. If he makes it big in Europe that could open some more eyes, in addition to helping us win games.
Brooks could also be our best center back ever, a Brooks-Miazga partnership in a few years could be legit.
It takes time, we've only had a pro league for 20 years, and it's only been somewhat decent for 10.
In other news Pulisic has a chance to be special, I see Eden Hazard in his play. That natural skill with such high-quality coaching and talent around him at a young age is exactly what we've lacked in the past. If he makes it big in Europe that could open some more eyes, in addition to helping us win games.
Brooks could also be our best center back ever, a Brooks-Miazga partnership in a few years could be legit.
Wow, that was quick. Argentina scores 3 minutes in on a great pass by Messi to Lavezzi - but the goal mostly happened because of a defensive breakdown and Guzan got caught in no man's land on the dink of a header over his head. I'm afraid they're just going to blow us out, but you never know...
Agreed. We look incredibly tight, as if everyone is afraid of making mistakes, instead of playing aggressive, confident soccer, which we need to do to win. And, unfortunately, our weaker ball skills are really showing up, as they are just better at passing and bringing down difficult passes or 50-50 balls with dexterity and not giving the ball away.
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I thought so too. I thought he should have been more aggressive coming out for that ball.
This game is like most games we play against quality teams. No quality possession, possession with purpose and too many giveaways. It is what it is, that's our skill level at the moment. I think we get many of our results get based on heart, effort and some athleticism.
Man what a shot by Messi. Right in the top far corner. Well he is who he is because he can shoot like that.
Messi is just amazing. Hate seeing him score against us, but love watching him play. Goal was set up by another giveaway, by Wondo, who really shouldn't be playing against an Argentina. Sucks that Wood is out. At this point, I'd take a 2-0 loss, since it's possible we could lose 7-0 if we press too much.
I think Bradley has more giveaways than completed passes - never seen him play anywhere near this badly. He's killing us in the midfield.
Beckermann is a bad option, Bradley is playing horrible, and Wondolowski has no business being on a the US national team.
never had a chance with that lineup, Wondolowski doesn't belong on the national team, if Beckerman has to start against Argentina.....just ugh. Both guys run a lot and try hard, but sorry, we should be producing better and have better options for our national team.
Argentina is clearly better, but goddamn it we're just bad tonight. So many unforced giveaways on horrible passes - it's ridiculous. Would love to see what we could've done if we played up to our potential - still a loss, I'm sure, but a more competitive one.
Edit: and now 4-0 on the worst giveaway of the night by Birnbaum to Messi, 25 yards in front of the goal and Messi unselfishly gives it to Higuain for an easy goal. Bad, bad, play. Guzan did make a great save on Messi earlier, though. Have we had a shot on goal yet?
Edit: and now 4-0 on the worst giveaway of the night by Birnbaum to Messi, 25 yards in front of the goal and Messi unselfishly gives it to Higuain for an easy goal. Bad, bad, play. Guzan did make a great save on Messi earlier, though. Have we had a shot on goal yet?
Bradley was just putrid tonight. Men against boys.
At least we didn't get beat 7-0. That's the only good thing about tonight.
At least we didn't get beat 7-0. That's the only good thing about tonight.
Bradley has come up small against Colombia and Argentina...not what you want from your captain........his giveaways lead to at least 4 or 5 goals in those 2 matches.
I almost emailed you to see if you wanted to watch, but I had a sneaking suspicion we were going to be taken out to the woodshed. I actually got Max to come watch for 15 minutes, but he went back to his stuff after they scored the 2nd goal.
Unforced errors out the Ying yang.
I dont like saying it, but total choke job by our guys.
You can't credit Argentina with our guys not doing the things they've done since they were 5 years old with their eyes closed
This game was very disappointing
I dont like saying it, but total choke job by our guys.
You can't credit Argentina with our guys not doing the things they've done since they were 5 years old with their eyes closed
This game was very disappointing
Our guys just aren't good enough. Argentina does to us in soccer what we do to them in basketball: absolutely dominate.
Soccer is the one sport where you can't simply out-athlete the opponent.
I mean, sure it helps to be bigger/stronger/faster, but the best player on the planet looks like he could have stepped right out of your average accounting department.
This game demands first touch, anticipation, vision, balance, and skill. Attributes that are best honed on the streets where creative play isn't coached out of you in favor of punt-ball.
Soccer is the one sport where you can't simply out-athlete the opponent.
I mean, sure it helps to be bigger/stronger/faster, but the best player on the planet looks like he could have stepped right out of your average accounting department.
This game demands first touch, anticipation, vision, balance, and skill. Attributes that are best honed on the streets where creative play isn't coached out of you in favor of punt-ball.
The US National team has, for as far back as I can recall, been much too slow with the ball in possession, relative to the international power teams. Our players often appear to lack the quality of touch that is required for a rapid possession game. Which makes us a relatively easy team to defend against.
I don't really think it's on the coaching. Klinsmann's tactical and strategic approaches have always seemed pretty good to me, the players seem motivated and fit and tactically sound. IMO, it's more about the lack of depth of technical skill on the national team.
But this is an old argument. People have been trying to figure out how to identify the best soccer players in the United States for a long time. I think that system has been improved but still needs a lot of work.
I don't really think it's on the coaching. Klinsmann's tactical and strategic approaches have always seemed pretty good to me, the players seem motivated and fit and tactically sound. IMO, it's more about the lack of depth of technical skill on the national team.
But this is an old argument. People have been trying to figure out how to identify the best soccer players in the United States for a long time. I think that system has been improved but still needs a lot of work.
I've watched more soccer in the last two years then I ever anticipated watching on my whole life because of my daughters. One thing I've learned is soccer is different. You literally have to have a soccer ball on your foot daily to create the skills needed to succeed. You could send some dominant 16 year old athlete to coach Toal having never seen a football and get him a scholarship. That wouldn't happen in soccer. We either need to send promising youth to some IMG type campus from the age of 8 or start incentivizing foreigners to come play for us over their natural country.
I'd argue there arent any sports where you can simply "out athlete" the opponent.
Good to great athleticism is "table stakes". In basketball, your court vision, your shooting, your handle, your anticipation, your hours and hours in the gym separates you being Kobe Bryant from you being JR Smith.
Messi is every bit a world class athlete. He wouldn't be Messi if he wasn't, no matter how good his first touch is. It took Yedlin at full tilt to get to that one loose ball in front of him. And people were still surprised. The guys lateral quickness is otherworldly.
The better the opponent, the less time and space you have.
We don't pressure the ball, we give the better teams space all over the field. We have to make a decision with the ball within a 10th of a second and go backwards.
That's the way itt is and always will be.
We don't pressure the ball, we give the better teams space all over the field. We have to make a decision with the ball within a 10th of a second and go backwards.
That's the way itt is and always will be.
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Maybe I should have phrased it better: Of all professional team sports, soccer is the one where being bigger/stronger/faster helps the least.
I think what you're trying to say is brute strength doesnt hide lack of skill in soccer but as the poster above said, its somewhat a moot point as all of these guys are strong and fast. Theyre not all TALL...but many of them are tall as well
While Argentina was clearly better than us technically, we still sh1t the bed with the basics. I am generally someone who sees the glass being half full with the USMNT...last night was perhaps the most disappointing performance i have seen in a very long time.
Almost every player (not all,but most) played like crap.
The play date is the bane of modern childhood. In part modern sidewalkless suburbia is to blame. When I was a kid I wasn't even allowed to cross the street until like 14.
