OT: Copa America 2016
- Thread starter Zak57
- Start date
we may have a shell of a team for the semi's, but I'm proud of the team for tonight. A few of the cards were justified, but I think the ref shouldn't see the field for the rest of the tournament. If there was any question the guy's attitude was trying to affect the outcome, throwing out Ecuador's coach should have proven otherwise... awful to have a ref throwing out yellows for several plays that should have simply been free kicks - especially in a knock out game.
Cameron at center mid?? If anything Johnson will get moved up to the midfield to replace Bedoya, and Besler and Yedlin will start out wide in the back.
Got really lucky - Valencia could've/should've put both of those headers into the back of the net, but he just didn't get it done. And Jones straight red was just f-ing stupid. The Ecuador guy was already gone for his foul and Jones needs to just walk away - even though the red was really weak (but he did barely touch the guy in the face, which is a red, technically). In the end, though, a win is a win and we're headed to the semis. If it's Argentina, man, we're going to need our best game, by far.
yep, cameron in midfield. depending on availability, he sometimes plays holding mid for stoke. i would love to see fabian in midfield, but holy crap, messi and ADM against besler would be disastrous. we also need a midfield destroyer to help shield the back 4. higuain and/or aguero are too much to handle without one.
I got tickets to tomorrow's quarters and to the final... Taking my dad for fathers day... He likes soccer so he'll love USA or Argentina(assuming they beat Venezuela).... I Hope for USA... That said... I would like to face Colombia or Chile... No Mexico please...
the argentina bench is unbelievable...
Aguero, Lamela, Pastore, Biglia, Lavezzi, Kranevitter...
these guys would start for just about any other international side.
Aguero, Lamela, Pastore, Biglia, Lavezzi, Kranevitter...
these guys would start for just about any other international side.
Incredible game, something the US should be very proud of, whatever happens from here. Our back line was really impressive, with Brooks leading the way. He is really coming on.
I am very curious as to the ratings this game will get. I am guessing it is going to be pretty high, even going against an NBA finals game.
I am very curious as to the ratings this game will get. I am guessing it is going to be pretty high, even going against an NBA finals game.
RU Numbers with a prescient post from Monday... it was a lucky bounce/header/shot that saved the US last night. Those last several minutes were agonizing to watch. Is exciting to be on to Tuesday night!
I'm thinking something like this with Johnson moved up for pulisic and beckerman in for Johnson. Pulisic can come on as a sub when we will probably need a goal (or more, hopefully not and we kick ass).
So basically a 5-3-2, with wingbacks? Maybe, but don't see Klinsi breaking up a solid CB pairing.
Doubt both Nagbe & Pulisic will start. I love the attacking intent of this lineup, but it would definitely expose the defense. Maybe Beckerman next to Bradley & move Johnson up for Pulisic?
I'd use the starting back 4 from the first 2 games, while basically substituting Zusi/Beckerman & either Nagbe or Pulisic for Bedoya/Jones/Wood. Need someone to make the runs that Wood was making for balls over the top to work like last night. Don't think Zardes has the control to do what Wood was doing, but he serves a purpose.
Yedlin Cameron Brooks Johnson
Zardes Bradley Beckerman Zusi
Nagbe/Pulisic Dempsey
Zardes Bradley Beckerman Zusi
Nagbe/Pulisic Dempsey
Problem I have with this is Bradley would have to move up more to fill the Jones role, when he's better sitting further back. Maybe he'll stay back anyway with Beckerman, allowing the Dempsey to control the forward play.
A real shame that we lost so many starters for the semi, but major props to the team for getting this far. Here's hoping that the extra 2 days of rest help the team.
Great game last night, but wow did Fox Sports do a lousy job. JP Dellacamera doing play by play was just awful (although I liked Donovan with color). Dellacamera had, for example, no clue what happened during the dual red card fiasco. Time after time his description of the game play was so far off base it confused what was actually happening. Also, the replays were far too long and frequent - chunks of the actual game were missed in lieu of replays.
more of a 4-4-2 diamond. i know Bradley is not an ideal #10, but i'm not sure of how we could maintain any semblance of an attack if we went with a 4-2-3-1. the reason being, having cameron a little higher up the pitch to snuff out argentina's build up is going to be important. if they pour numbers forward with the type of quality they have, our questionable fullbacks (defensively speaking) are going to be overwhelmed. my thought is to take a page out of barcelona (busquets), tottenham (dier), and chelsea's (matic) playbook and play a more natural defender in midfield.
if we really wanted to go that way, i'd want cameron and bradley as my #6 and #8. nagbe as the #10, zardes and pulisic outside (i don't think Zusi has the pace to shuttle up and down the line for 60-70 mins) and deuce up top. thing that has become very evident tho...deuce works best when he has a partner up top to play off of. isolating him up top diminishes his strengths.
on a broader front, not just because we lost all these guys for next match...is it a bit much that the yellows carryover from the qualifying round? With the way the refs have called so inconsistently throughout the matches it seems like these current matches should have started with a clean slate.
On that double red play, I'm still a little surprised that Brooks didnt get anything for his post play 2-handed shove response. A piece of me was actually curious whether the ref actually meant to card brooks and accidentally gave it to Jones.
On that double red play, I'm still a little surprised that Brooks didnt get anything for his post play 2-handed shove response. A piece of me was actually curious whether the ref actually meant to card brooks and accidentally gave it to Jones.
Yeah, they were horrible in explaining what was going on with the dust-up and the cards that followed. For at least a few minutes I thought we were going down a player, but then the little info box on the TV was saying that both guys got red-carded and it took another minute or two for the announcers to say that. Landon was fine on color.
What time does the rioting start?
I just got a new lead pipe and a chair to throw.
Or should I be at EURO '16?
I just got a new lead pipe and a chair to throw.
Or should I be at EURO '16?
I'd like to see Zardes take Wood's spot. Put Johnson in Bedoya's spot. Beckerman for Jones. Leave Besler at LB, with Yedlin back at RB. Keep the same formation.
And to further show what a joke it all is---the coach was supposed to leave completely (I think?) and no one even followed up so he just stopped behind the bench and watched the rest of the game from there.
In addition they didn't even wait for jones to fully exit the field before resuming.
Venezuela had some good moments tonight but really made some bad mistakes too and were punished for those. If we are going to pull the upset, we cannot have bad turnovers on the defensive end.
And I am with you, Patrick: go Chile!
And I am with you, Patrick: go Chile!
Wow, Mexico just laying down now - gave up two horrendous goals, so far, in the 2nd half, on bad giveaways. Chile just crushing them 4-0 now. Couldn't have happened to nicer bunch of d-bag players and fans - F em.
I enjoyed seeing Mexico lose like that. It's probably more because of the fans. I'm not familiar enough with the team to know their attitudes but the fans can be bad. Even yesterday after one of the Chile goals they were throwing things at the Chilean players. I'd be more unhappy at my own team rather than the other for beating the heck out of it.
It's going to be an big time uphill battle for the US but Venezuela did have a few missed chances, including the PK, to try and make a game of it early. I think the loss of Wood is going to hurt, I thought he was doing a nice job in this tourney. Surprised by his speed up front too. It feels like it will be a defend defend defend game to me and shootout is the realistic way through.
It's going to be an big time uphill battle for the US but Venezuela did have a few missed chances, including the PK, to try and make a game of it early. I think the loss of Wood is going to hurt, I thought he was doing a nice job in this tourney. Surprised by his speed up front too. It feels like it will be a defend defend defend game to me and shootout is the realistic way through.
I'm trying not to enjoy the mexico result so much as I'm a big fan of karma and want no part of anything like that this Tuesday especially without Jones, Bedoya & Wood....Jones & Wood hurt, and honestly Bedoya is a bit underappreciated though I always find myself asking for Nagbe or Pulisic to come in for him by the 70th minute (he fades around the 70-80min mark, he does hustle).
Yeah, I think they generally go about 5-10 minutes too long with Bedoya as well.
This is going to be an extremely difficult game for the US. Not only are they playing a very good team, but the will be without one of arguably their 2 or 3 best players (Jones) of the tournament, their second best forward (Wood), and a guy that basically gives some of the hardest minutes on the team (Bedoya). We're going to need some guys to really step up to replace these three.
This is slightly OT, but I've always wondered why US Soccer adopted the 4-3-3. I understand it creates a more possession-based offense and more "exciting" and "attacking" soccer, but it absolutely requires skillful players up the middle and up front that we lack.
We have historically produced world class keepers and "plus" defenders. We are also pretty good at producing speed/athlete type forwards.
To me, it would make more sense to just embrace parking the bus and picking out counter-attacks. It would suit our personnel much better. The Italians in particular have won many matches with this style. Real Madrid does the same at the club level.
We have historically produced world class keepers and "plus" defenders. We are also pretty good at producing speed/athlete type forwards.
To me, it would make more sense to just embrace parking the bus and picking out counter-attacks. It would suit our personnel much better. The Italians in particular have won many matches with this style. Real Madrid does the same at the club level.
Again being a pedestrian soccer fan, this is kind of my line of thinking as well even though it may not be the most exciting brand of soccer to watch. Be a poor man's Italy in style so to speak. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what that entails but it feel like that's the brand of soccer necessary to have a realistic chance to take another step up on the world stage. Will we ever create the kind of players consistently as the other powers like a Spain/Germany/France etc..? And what does that really take to actually accomplish that goal systemically?
Just from my layman's observations, specifically against the better teams, I feel we don't often have good quality possession or much possession with purpose. I can't tell you why that is other than being generic in saying I don't see the skill sets in the players. Is that something we can ever improve on to be on par with the elites? I don't know but if not then I agree with your line of thinking.
rutgersguy1: soccer is all about spacing. We don't have guys who create space by being able to possess the ball under pressure/multiple defenders. Nor do we have guys who are accurate enough with their long passing to switch fields consistently (again, taking advantage of space). Even if we had Beckham crossing it, typically our guys' first touch is lacking, allowing defenders to recover (ie: space lost nearly as soon as it was created).
And so for decades now, goal scoring has been almost exclusively dependent on one of three things:
1.) getting a touch pass on a perfectly timed run behind the defense,
2.) cross + header (includes corner kicks)
3.) a shot from deep that catches the keeper off guard
Notice, none of those requires impeccable control/touch or anticipation/creativity.
The game is easier for teams with good control/anticipation because they are playing with much more space.
And so for decades now, goal scoring has been almost exclusively dependent on one of three things:
1.) getting a touch pass on a perfectly timed run behind the defense,
2.) cross + header (includes corner kicks)
3.) a shot from deep that catches the keeper off guard
Notice, none of those requires impeccable control/touch or anticipation/creativity.
The game is easier for teams with good control/anticipation because they are playing with much more space.
You put into words and give a good explanation of what I see and feel as a layman but can't describe well.
+1
Plus we don't have CB's like Bonucci who can make the passes to split a defense. Cameron does ok playing out of the back, but he also tends to get a bit flustered & make mistakes. His passes to Wood were pretty good, but tended to be toward the corner, not the center (so I guess a Poor Man's Italy would be apt). Wood seems be a good find, especially if he gets good training in Hamburg, and seems to have a good touch. Unfortunate that Johannsen was injured as he would've been another good option up top.
Honestly, we just don't have enough players that can pass properly with best (or are in the wrong position). Bradley, on his day, can pass pretty well, but I see way too many misplaced passes by him, especially in bad positions, while I wonder how Fabien Johnson would do as a mid instead of a defender. There are times you see glimpses of good passing, but they tend to few & far between. It's getting better, but there are still too many 'athletic' players instead of true football players.
I wonder why we don't produce more skilled players especially considering the quantity learning in youth ages. Some skills training must be lacking across the board in American player development.
However, watching Italy games are BRUTAL. How long has the US been playing 4-3-3?
However, watching Italy games are BRUTAL. How long has the US been playing 4-3-3?
Our best athletes still don't play soccer (imagine LeBron as a striker or a keeper) and the kids that do play soccer don't live, breathe and eat soccer like kids elsewhere.
the youth programs are so wide spread across the country and there is a lack of truly top flight coaching at that level. most are just parents trying to help out. That and we have kids involved in so many sports they rarely specialize growing up.
The coaching is actually getting much better. The problem is the pay-for-play model: someone has to pay for all that coaching. The net is missing all those kids who can't afford to pay for "travel & trophies". Unfortunately, those who can't afford the good coaches are traditionally the minorities who are likely strong "soccer families".
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