OT: Copa America 2024 Thread

[mildone]

Weah’s red card didn’t only affect the team for this game. He’ll be unavailable for the next as well. Very costly mistake.

Still, despite Weah’s being out making it harder than it should be, the team can win on Monday night. I think they would’ve won easily tonight had they not had to play down a player most of the game. The key will be if the back line can hold up.

GB now has to figure out who to play in Weah’s place. I would give serious thought to playing 4-4-2 by injecting Musah instead of another forward. That allows Reyna to cheat more forward. But I’d have Reyna gravitate to the center of the field rather than hanging on a wing. Let Balogun and Puli play wide and then time runs for when Reyna gets the ball.

 

[RuSnp]

Weah’s red card didn’t only affect the team for this game. He’ll be unavailable for the next as well. Very costly mistake.

Still, despite Weah’s being out making it harder than it should be, the team can win on Monday night. I think they would’ve won easily tonight had they not had to play down a player most of the game. The key will be if the back line can hold up.

GB now has to figure out who to play in Weah’s place. I would give serious thought to playing 4-4-2 by injecting Musah instead of another forward. That allows Reyna to cheat more forward. But I’d have Reyna gravitate to the center of the field rather than hanging on a wing. Let Balogun and Puli play wide and then time runs for when Reyna gets the ball.

I hope so Mild. But Uruguay has some real talent. Spurs player subbing in for Madrid player exhibit A. They're much better in goal. Nunez against Chris Richards....We better bring our A game.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

The lack of a 3rd goal against Bolivia could still be an issue if Panama is able to bury them on Monday too. Such a tough spot to be in. Man, Weah, you really put the team in a bad spot with that red card.

 

[RU848789]

The lack of a 3rd goal against Bolivia could still be an issue if Panama is able to bury them on Monday too. Such a tough spot to be in. Man, Weah, you really put the team in a bad spot with that red card.

If we win, I'm pretty confident we'll have a better GD than Panama and will go through, even if Panama wins (they'd need to win by at least 3 to tie us on GD and beat us out). If we tie Uruguay and Panama ties, we go through on GD. If we lose, we're not 100% out of it if Bolivia also wins, but the tiebreakers are complicated with a 3-way tie. I've loved Weah's contributions to the USMNT...until last night.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/s...up-scenarios-how-each-teams-advances-round-16

 

[RUMike]

With the prominence of VAR in the US-Panama game, I found it odd that it was not used to review:
1. 12" Blackman running into Matt Turner (should have been a yellow card)
2. 25' Reyna getting knocked to the ground from behind leading to a transition and goal for Panama
3. 40' Pulisic going down in the box (not sure it was a penalty, but should have been looked at)
4. 2nd half only 4 min of extra time?

I do not believe the officiating crew was impartial.

 

[Doctor Worm]

With the prominence of VAR in the US-Panama game, I found it odd that it was not used to review:
1. 12" Blackman running into Matt Turner (should have been a yellow card)
2. 25' Reyna getting knocked to the ground from behind leading to a transition and goal for Panama
3. 40' Pulisic going down in the box (not sure it was a penalty, but should have been looked at)
4. 2nd half only 4 min of extra time?

I do not believe the officiating crew was impartial.

Items 1 and 4 are outside the scope of VAR.

I think 2 was looked at.

3 may have been looked at while the subsequent play was proceeding. The VAR official looks at a lot of things that we don't hear about.

 

[RUevolution36]

Weah’s red card didn’t only affect the team for this game. He’ll be unavailable for the next as well. Very costly mistake.

Still, despite Weah’s being out making it harder than it should be, the team can win on Monday night. I think they would’ve won easily tonight had they not had to play down a player most of the game. The key will be if the back line can hold up.

GB now has to figure out who to play in Weah’s place. I would give serious thought to playing 4-4-2 by injecting Musah instead of another forward. That allows Reyna to cheat more forward. But I’d have Reyna gravitate to the center of the field rather than hanging on a wing. Let Balogun and Puli play wide and then time runs for when Reyna gets the ball.

Bring in Pepi and have him and Balogun up top and Pulisic in the 10 role. Unfortunately it means depending on Scally coming fwd to provide attacking width, which I'm not really sold on, but we have to score goals.

 

[mildone]

Bring in Pepi and have him and Balogun up top and Pulisic in the 10 role. Unfortunately it means depending on Scally coming fwd to provide attacking width, which I'm not really sold on, but we have to score goals.

Pepi is not having much impact so far, just too many missed opportunities. He mostly has one job to do and he’s not doing it.

And I’d want Musah on the field if possible.

 

[kupuna133]

Pepi is not having much impact so far, just too many missed opportunities. He mostly has one job to do and he’s not doing it.

And I’d want Musah on the field if possible.

Agree. Disappointed in Pepi. One role and failing at that. Miss one opportunity okay, two there’s an issue three and four you don’t deserve the role.

Can’t miss opportunities like we did in game 1. And play man down in game 2 and expect good things to happen.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

The lack of a 3rd goal against Bolivia could still be an issue if Panama is able to bury them on Monday too. Such a tough spot to be in. Man, Weah, you really put the team in a bad spot with that red card.

My disclaimer is, I have not watched the game and only listened on the radio. That being said, the United States should have enough quality to hold off Panama with 10 men. I understand it is a huge challenge, but I feel that we could have easily parked the bus especially after going up 1-0. That is coaching.

Pepi is not having much impact so far, just too many missed opportunities. He mostly has one job to do and he’s not doing it.

And I’d want Musah on the field if possible.

This was surprising to me that Musah did not get on the field. Given his tenacity, I felt he and Aaronson both would have been good subs. I would have taken Reyna off immediately to ensure we have box to box players on the field.

Sargent also - he can play with his back to goal. Ideal to slow the pace of play.

 

[mildone]

My disclaimer is, I have not watched the game and only listened on the radio. That being said, the United States should have enough quality to hold off Panama with 10 men. I understand it is a huge challenge, but I feel that we could have easily parked the bus especially after going up 1-0. That is coaching.



This was surprising to me that Musah did not get on the field. Given his tenacity, I felt he and Aaronson both would have been good subs. I would have taken Reyna off immediately to ensure we have box to box players on the field.

Sargent also - he can play with his back to goal. Ideal to slow the pace of play.

I think Musah or Aaronson probably would've been subbed in, but subbing our GK made the choice much more problematic. Also, the team did okay for the most part, even creating some scoring chances.

But the same critical personnel issue that hurt the team in the last WC is still hurting the team now (and in this game). No depth and thus missing pieces at the back. It's by far the biggest weakness on the team.

The US has quality up front and in the midfield. It has some quality at the back, but one player has a torn ACL, two are really not up to the challenge IMO (Richardson and Scally), and for some reason I have thus far been unable to determine, M Robinson hasn't been playing. I did some web searches but only came up with injuries prior to the last WC. So at the moment, the team is really playing with one quality player at the back in A Rob.

So, IMO, the team lacks quality in perhaps the most crucial places to have it when playing down a man. I'm not sure what role GB has in locating talent for the team. If he's entirely responsible for that, then I would indeed hand him the lion's share of the blame. If it's elements of US Soccer outside of GB (which is what thought it was), then I find it hard to point fingers at him. I refuse to believe we cannot find more capable defenders than Scally and Richardson.

GB's only mistake in this game (and I'm judging it a mistake w/the benefit of hindsight and without 99% of GB's in-depth knowledge of the roster - so my judgement is highly suspect here, was putting Pepi in 10 or 15 minutes too soon. Otherwise, he did what any coach could do with what we had available, IMO. We can make hindsight guesses about what might have worked better (as I just did above). But mostly, that sort of thing is BS. We can't really know.

The talking heads always leap to blame the coach. But if we have to point fingers, I think the blame for that loss falls squarely and entirely on Weah. If the team fails to advance, that probably falls in large part on Weah too, due to his inability to contribute in this final group stage game as a key component of the attack.

And, as I've said many times, Weah's one of my favorite USMNT players. But that was just a massive mental mistake.

 

[RUevolution36]

I think Musah or Aaronson probably would've been subbed in, but subbing our GK made the choice much more problematic. Also, the team did okay for the most part, even creating some scoring chances.

But the same critical personnel issue that hurt the team in the last WC is still hurting the team now (and in this game). No depth and thus missing pieces at the back. It's by far the biggest weakness on the team.

The US has quality up front and in the midfield. It has some quality at the back, but one player has a torn ACL, two are really not up to the challenge IMO (Richardson and Scally), and for some reason I have thus far been unable to determine, M Robinson hasn't been playing. I did some web searches but only came up with injuries prior to the last WC. So at the moment, the team is really playing with one quality player at the back in A Rob.

So, IMO, the team lacks quality in perhaps the most crucial places to have it when playing down a man. I'm not sure what role GB has in locating talent for the team. If he's entirely responsible for that, then I would indeed hand him the lion's share of the blame. If it's elements of US Soccer outside of GB (which is what thought it was), then I find it hard to point fingers at him. I refuse to believe we cannot find more capable defenders than Scally and Richardson.

GB's only mistake in this game (and I'm judging it a mistake w/the benefit of hindsight and without 99% of GB's in-depth knowledge of the roster - so my judgement is highly suspect here, was putting Pepi in 10 or 15 minutes too soon. Otherwise, he did what any coach could do with what we had available, IMO. We can make hindsight guesses about what might have worked better (as I just did above). But mostly, that sort of thing is BS. We can't really know.

The talking heads always leap to blame the coach. But if we have to point fingers, I think the blame for that loss falls squarely and entirely on Weah. If the team fails to advance, that probably falls in large part on Weah too, due to his inability to contribute in this final group stage game as a key component of the attack.

And, as I've said many times, Weah's one of my favorite USMNT players. But that was just a massive mental mistake.

Wait till richards and Ream have to deal with the movement of Darwin Nunez. Guy misses the broad side of the barn more often than not, but he will make great runs that give him ample quantities of chances. I don't know that we can handle that.

 

[krup]

My disclaimer is, I have not watched the game and only listened on the radio. That being said, the United States should have enough quality to hold off Panama with 10 men. I understand it is a huge challenge, but I feel that we could have easily parked the bus especially after going up 1-0. That is coaching.



This was surprising to me that Musah did not get on the field. Given his tenacity, I felt he and Aaronson both would have been good subs. I would have taken Reyna off immediately to ensure we have box to box players on the field.

Sargent also - he can play with his back to goal. Ideal to slow the pace of play.

The problem was that Berhalter DID park the bus.

The US held their own for the balance of the first half after they went a man down. When GB took off a midfielder at halftime and replaced him with a extra center back, it just conceded the midfield and THEN the US was under constant pressure.

Berhalter coached scared and it blew up in his face.

 

[RuSnp]

Wait till richards and Ream have to deal with the movement of Darwin Nunez. Guy misses the broad side of the barn more often than not, but he will make great runs that give him ample quantities of chances. I don't know that we can handle that.

I liked this but I don't like it. I wish there was an "agree sadly" button.

The borderline woeful overall performance of Concacaf teams in this tournament is more ammunition IMO that we need to rethink our aspirations and maybe get new leadership at the top with a change in mentality.

I've said this before but I belive GB had only ever beaten 3 South American or European teams before this tourney. Northern Ireland, Ecuador, and Bosnia. We can add a pretty poor Bolivia to that list.

Anyway can we beat Uruguay? Sure it's feasible if unlikely. But if we did it would be GB's greatest win by miles. Miles.

 

[RU848789]

The problem was that Berhalter DID park the bus.

The US held their own for the balance of the first half after they went a man down. When GB took off a midfielder at halftime and replaced him with a extra center back, it just conceded the midfield and THEN the US was under constant pressure.

Berhalter coached scared and it blew up in his face.

No, we gave up a goal about 4 minutes after we scored our goal a few minutes after Weah was sent off early in the first half. Up 1-0 with 10 men and we lost 2-1, which is unacceptable; a tie would've been borderline acceptable.

 

[krup]

No, we gave up a goal about 4 minutes after we scored our goal a few minutes after Weah was sent off early in the first half. Up 1-0 with 10 men and we lost 2-1, which is unacceptable; a tie would've been borderline acceptable.

The worst way to get a tie was to hand control of possession to your less talented opponent by taking off a midfielder.

They were playing even with Panama even though they were a man down in the first half.

Berhalter made his halftime switches like Panama was a much better team than they are and like the US needed to desperately hang on, and he actually created the situation of them desperately hanging on.

 

[mildone]

The worst way to get a tie was to hand control of possession to your less talented opponent by taking off a midfielder.

They were playing even with Panama even though they were a man down in the first half.

Berhalter made his halftime switches like Panama was a much better team than they are and like the US needed to desperately hang on, and he actually created the situation of them desperately hanging on.

I believe this to be a flawed analysis.

GB shored up the weakest group on the field, our defenders, for the US at a time when our strongest GK was out of the game. It was an entirely justifiable decision to try to assure at least 1 point given the context of the group.

It’s axiomatic that good attacking soccer is exhausting due to the constant support play movement and the need to use the edges of the field. Good defensive soccer, defending only one half of the field, and being compact, is far less exhausting.

It didn’t work out, but everybody claiming some other approach would’ve been better is speculating without any way to prove their case and without any responsibility for if/when it backfires. The US might well have exhausted itself trying to attack, exposing a weak back four too often and ultimatley wound up with a bigger goal differential for the game.

GB made fine, completely defensible choices.

 

[krup]

I believe this to be a flawed analysis.

GB shored up the weakest group on the field, our defenders, for the US at a time when our strongest GK was out of the game. It was an entirely justifiable decision to try to assure at least 1 point given the context of the group.

It’s axiomatic that good attacking soccer is exhausting due to the constant support play movement and the need to use the edges of the field. Good defensive soccer, defending only one half of the field, and being compact, is far less exhausting.

It didn’t work out, but everybody claiming some other approach would’ve been better is speculating without any way to prove their case and without any responsibility for if/when it backfires. The US might well have exhausted itself trying to attack, exposing a weak back four too often and ultimatley wound up with a bigger goal differential for the game.

GB made fine, completely defensible choices.

You shore up the defense by replacing one of the midfielders with the defensive midfielder Musa.

You admitted our back 4 is weak, how can the solution be to add your 5th best back and make them be under constant pressure for an entire half with no margin for error??

This was f**king Panama, not a good CONMEBOL or European team. The best way to not expose your weak back 4 was to put them under as little pressure as possible.

What GB did wasn’t “good defensive soccer”. A good coach knows that much of your defense comes from your midfield. GB made the midfield play a man short while we had 5 defenders running around struggling with their positioning under pressure.

 

[RuSnp]

I believe this to be a flawed analysis.

GB shored up the weakest group on the field, our defenders, for the US at a time when our strongest GK was out of the game. It was an entirely justifiable decision to try to assure at least 1 point given the context of the group.

It’s axiomatic that good attacking soccer is exhausting due to the constant support play movement and the need to use the edges of the field. Good defensive soccer, defending only one half of the field, and being compact, is far less exhausting.

It didn’t work out, but everybody claiming some other approach would’ve been better is speculating without any way to prove their case and without any responsibility for if/when it backfires. The US might well have exhausted itself trying to attack, exposing a weak back four too often and ultimatley wound up with a bigger goal differential for the game.

GB made fine, completely defensible choices.

Agree with this. And I've fallen into this trap too where if you don't think a guy should be the coach, you find everything wrong in everything he does. Very easy to second guess from a couch the day afterwards.

My biggest issue with GB is at 30,000 ft. He hasn't beaten anybody outside of our region with a pulse. And Mexico has been poor for their standards to boot the last few years. So he could be making all the right tactical decisions, and everybody on the team loves him, but then it becomes a question does this group need an as#%÷< for a coach instead? Something isn't clicking right now.

 

[krup]

Plenty of analysts were second guessing from the time GB made his halftime changes.

Too many people are fooled by having watched the game into approving GB’s actions based on what actually happened not what could have happened.

That second half pressure wasn’t inevitable, they were playing Panama. GB bet that the weakest area of his team could hold up under the increased pressure HE CAUSED by removing a midfielder and adding a back. It was a stupid bet and the result didn’t have to happen because they shouldn’t have been under that kind of pressure with the correct setup.

 

[mildone]

Agree with this. And I've fallen into this trap too where if you don't think a guy should be the coach, you find everything wrong in everything he does. Very easy to second guess from a couch the day afterwards.

My biggest issue with GB is at 30,000 ft. He hasn't beaten anybody outside of our region with a pulse. And Mexico has been poor for their standards to boot the last few years. So he could be making all the right tactical decisions, and everybody on the team loves him, but then it becomes a question does this group need an as#%÷< for a coach instead? Something isn't clicking right now.

If they fail to clear the group stage, perhaps US Soccer will make a change. But I really think the issue has been a failure to bring in defenders on par with the mids and forwards. Not sure any amount of hard-assedness from a coach can make the current back four play better.

If GB has been deeply involved in the selection process, then I’d get rid of him. Or to put it another way, I would get rid of whomever is most responsible for identifying and developing the defenders for US Soccer. Maybe the two most responsible (GB + someone else at US Soccer, I don’t know).

To me, that’s the biggest issue, a very obvious weakness that other coaches are exploiting and our coach has to compromise strategy to protect. If we don’t fix that, then I suspect there’s no coach anywhere that can get this team deep into the WC without a huge amount of luck.

And if the team’s gonna rely on luck, GB can just switch back to playing ugly long ball soccer, use violent defending, and rely on luck and set pieces. Which is mostly how the US advanced in the past.

 

[RuSnp]

If they fail to clear the group stage, perhaps US Soccer will make a change. But I really think the issue has been a failure to bring in defenders on par with the mids and forwards. Not sure any amount of hard-assedness from a coach can make the current back four play better.

If GB has been deeply involved in the selection process, then I’d get rid of him. Or to put it another way, I would get rid of whomever is most responsible for identifying and developing the defenders for US Soccer. Maybe the two most responsible (GB + someone else at US Soccer, I don’t know).

To me, that’s the biggest issue, a very obvious weakness that other coaches are exploiting and our coach has to compromise strategy to protect. If we don’t fix that, then I suspect there’s no coach anywhere that can get this team deep into the WC without a huge amount of luck.

And if the team’s gonna rely on luck, GB can just switch back to playing ugly long ball soccer, use violent defending, and rely on luck and set pieces. Which is mostly how the US advanced in the past.

Mild Richards starts for Palace. Scally has started in the Bundesliga since he was a teenager. These are not players who lack talent. GB has more "raw material" than any coach before him. It's not even close. At what point is performance on the coach? Or we will just forever reflexively hear "we need better players at position X, it is not 90 year old coach GB's fault."

 

[mildone]

You shore up the defense by replacing one of the midfielders with the defensive midfielder Musa.

You admitted our back 4 is weak, how can the solution be to add your 5th best back and make them be under constant pressure for an entire half with no margin for error??

This was f**king Panama, not a good CONMEBOL or European team. The best way to not expose your weak back 4 was to put them under as little pressure as possible.

What GB did wasn’t “good defensive soccer”. A good coach knows that much of your defense comes from your midfield. GB made the midfield play a man short while we had 5 defenders running around struggling with their positioning under pressure.

CCV is 3 inches taller than YM. And in my experience, mids and defenders don’t typically have interchangeable abilities, the exception being when the player in question has lots of experience with the role into which they’re being dropped. Does Musah have a lot of experience playing at the back?

If I’m the opposing coach, and Musah is causing issues upfield, and CCV isn’t in the game, I tell my players play tons of entry passes over the top, which negates Musah and the rest of the mids and adds even more pressure on the weak US defense.

 

[mildone]

Mild Richards starts for Palace. Scally has started in the Bundesliga since he was a teenager. These are not players who lack talent. GB has more "raw material" than any coach before him. It's not even close. At what point is performance on the coach? Or we will just forever reflexively hear "we need better players at position X, it is not 90 year old coach GB's fault."

They have both been making non-stop mistakes off the ball, and getting beat when they’re on the ball. They’re both making terrible passes and have demonstrated no ability to make incisive attacking passes out of the back. That won’t get it done.

I cannot speak as to how they play with their club teams, or how those club teams are doing defensively.

 

[RUevolution36]

They have both been making non-stop mistakes off the ball, and getting beat when they’re on the ball. They’re both making terrible passes and have demonstrated no ability to make incisive attacking passes out of the back. That won’t get it done.

I cannot speak as to how they play with their club teams, or how those club teams are doing defensively.

Palace was one of the hottest Prem teams at the end of the season, with Richards being a very strong contributor to that form. He definitely knows how to play the position. What is clear is that the pairing of Ream and Richards has not gelled, and may also be a lack of leadership from the GK in shepherding the cbs when they get pulled out of shape. Ream and Jedi play together for Fulham, so their communication should be there. But it hasn't been great between them either. The only other alternative explanation is that the gameplan and structure is not clear from GB.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/395401/MatchStatistics/Chris-Richards

In terms of what should have been done...I would have brought Musah in just to be able to move that defensive block up 5-8 yards and congest the middle of the pitch. Win the ball, quick ball out to Balogun and try to relieve pressure and maybe catch the opposition getting sucked upfield too far. Trying to drop into that low block and hope that we can just keep turning away balls into the box is frightening when our GKs aren't all that good to begin with.

 

[krup]

CCV is 3 inches taller than YM. And in my experience, mids and defenders don’t typically have interchangeable abilities, the exception being when the player in question has lots of experience with the role into which they’re being dropped. Does Musah have a lot of experience playing at the back?

If I’m the opposing coach, and Musah is causing issues upfield, and CCV isn’t in the game, I tell my players play tons of entry passes over the top, which negates Musah and the rest of the mids and adds even more pressure on the weak US defense.

You don’t bring Musa into play back, you bring him in to play defensive midfielder and shore up your overall defense without conceding the midfield like switching out a midfielder for a back did.

Think of it in football terms. If you have a weak group of DBs, you don’t play 3 DL every down so you can afford to play nickel every play. Technically you are adding to the DBs, but in effect you are getting them killed because now the other team has all day to throw on them. That’s what GB did to the backs.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Weah got an additional game added to his suspension. He'll miss the first game of the knockout round, if the USA gets that far.

 

[RU848789]

Damn, that field in Orlando for Canada-Chile looks like what we get in El Salvador, lol. Chile down to 10 men, meaning Canada goes through with a tie, but Chile are outplaying Canada right now, so Canada needs to step it up.