But don't open stances coil back towards center early in the delivery? Unless that back foot is angled fwd?
OT: Official 2021 NY Mets Season Thread
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I’m always curious why a guy would have trouble with calling a game even if a rookie, don’t they have strike zones in the minors? It isn’t like they are taking guys from high school ball and putting them in the majors.
Agree. Only thing I can think of is nerves. Tougher to stand up against the likes of Bobby Cox, Pete Rose, Lenny Dykstra, John Rocker and plenty other current hothead players.
I was taught the less movement of your frame (body) allows you to focus more on the delivery of the pitch. When you're moving there is a chance your head is moving. Without your head being steady, it extremely difficult to see the pitch from point A to point B consistently. There is a blind spot in your swing. I hope that wasn't too negative. 😉
I mean, of course. From Johnny Damon and earlier to McCann, JT Realmuto and others. It's a nonsense point, the type that is hurled from the internet.
Data analyses I've read indicated that the top performers among umps at calling balls and stikes on average had less than 3 years experience. In other words, overall, the new guys, the younger guys, did better. So there's that.
I was going to mention the movement aspect.
But that is different then not being able to go the other way with the ball.
Last nights guy was an outlier then. Less than 1 year major league experience. Was one of the worst I have ever see (at least the horrible calls went both ways)
I didn't mention anything about going the other way. McCann has shown the ability to do so at times, but usually on pitches middle/in. However, the batting stance causes a blind spot because of head movement associated with stepping into a better hitting position as the ball is arriving.
That must mean that you weren't watching baseball 25 years ago or earlier. Eric Gregg's strike zone at times, particularly on breaking balls, extended a foot outside of the plate. It was absurd, and he wasn't alone. Again, I think the superimposed strike zone on TV has had at least two effects: (i) given fans a bordered and outlined reason on their screen to complain more and (ii) made umps better at calling balls and strikes. You will never see today the nonsense strike calls that you saw 20 or more years ago or the vastly different strike zones depending on the ump or the league. I expect, however, that umpire's being better at it now won't be enough because they are still far from perfect, and the electronic system will eventually be used in some fashion.
If you think about it, it's just too much to ask of an ump: call balls and strikes with a human squatting right in front of you and in your way, but he is necessary because he has to catch the ball, so you have to often change your position on every pitch just to see around him. There's an argument that the hitter has a better view because at least the hitter is in the same spot every time and has no one blocking him. Not a great position, but better. The ump's position is pretty crappy.
Of course it does. You should call the Mets and let them know. It's amazing that they don't, being in the business and all.
Point I was making was the fact that it was stated umps with 3 or less years experience are better. They guy last night had less than 1 year. According to what was stated he should be one of the better ones. Again he was horrible. As to how long I have been watching baseball. I was four years old when I saw the Mets win in 1969.
If umps are so good, why is framing pitches the most important skill that a 2021 MLB catcher can possess?
One would think that a professional who is at the apex of his profession would be competent enough to call a strike at the point it crosses the plate, and would not be influenced by anything the catcher may do thereafter.
Understood. My response was to the part of your post where you said that he was the worst you'd ever seen.
You seem quite satisfied with a team that cannot hit for power or hit for average consistently. To each their own. However, with 90 plus games to go if we remain last in the league in runs scored, have the third worst ops and are in the bottom 5 for home runs, I doubt we make the playoffs no matter how well we pitch. I get that as a fan you want to ignore a thoughtful analysis of the offense and harp on the fact that we are in first place but if you truly look at the offensive deficiencies of this team you have to admit these are not playoff team caliber numbers.
Why some like myself get a little “over excited “ about every pitch in Aprilplus not happy about blowing chance to be 8 up instead of 3 games up .......
8/10-8/29....off once 8/23
Wash 3
Dodgers 3
@SF 3
@ Dodgers 4
SF 3
Wash 3
I apologize if some fellow Rutgers fans are irritated that I moan about a guy swinging at a ball 8 inches off the plate and some other calls and strategy
I am still bothered that I’m not wearing one of my 3 Rutgers sweet 16 T-shirts from Scarlet Fever every time I walk out my house. Also the missed FG in OT vs Michigan.
8/10-8/29....off once 8/23
Wash 3
Dodgers 3
@SF 3
@ Dodgers 4
SF 3
Wash 3
I apologize if some fellow Rutgers fans are irritated that I moan about a guy swinging at a ball 8 inches off the plate and some other calls and strategy
I am still bothered that I’m not wearing one of my 3 Rutgers sweet 16 T-shirts from Scarlet Fever every time I walk out my house. Also the missed FG in OT vs Michigan.
Oh, i thought when you said only covering one half of the plate that implied not going the other way on pitches on the other half.
You have nothing to apologize for. That was a pitch even a little leaguer would have laid off of.
To the extent you were wondering, and apparently you were not, you have no idea what I think of the offense. Search back a good number of pages and you'll see folks critizing me for claiming that the Mets have one of the worst offenses, and now I think the worst, in MLB.
But I'm also certain that an amateur analysis from the internet about open batting stances won't fix anything. Nor will a new hitting coach or manager. It could get fixed completely or partially by the current players hitting better, and career numbers of many suggest that this is a reasonable possibility. Or the front office could go out and get better hitters. Or, if that's not feasible, the front office will have to rely on the long-term solution of re-stocking talent, in particular hitting talent, in the minor leagues.
But closing everyone's stances and getting another hitting coach or manager won't matter one whit. It's the talent that matters.
If it was one or two players I would agree with you but the entire team without exception is not hitting which speaks volumes. When an entire team cannot hit a breaking ball and looks lost at the plate that falls on the organization. There is either a lack of preparation or some other systemic failure. That calls for a change in the hitting coach or a change in the approach to at bats. This is not a two week thing but has been ongoing the entire season.
While I hope each day that the team will break out of this slump we are halfway through the season and hope is not a strategy. You say talent matters but this team has talent. That it is not being fully realized on the field is a crime.
There is absolutely no evidence to support this. On the other hand, where is the vast and undeniable evidence that changing a hitting coach or pitching coach mid-season changes the hitting or pitching of a team long term? Why was this team performing much better offensively last year than this year? Was it because Chilli Davis was home talking to hitters via zoom? How did Nimmo perform so well earlier this year, and how did JD get out of the gate stongly? How did McCann peform last year with that horrible open batting stance? How did firing the hitting coach work the first time this year? Is the manager next? Sure, go ahead. Take a stroll down the tried-and-true checklist of pointlessness. It never matters. Hitters can hit becaue they can hit, not because of their hitting coach.
Players get hot and cold, sometimes for long periods and sometimes in bunches. Its just a matter of the odds. Things happen. The hitting coach won't matter one whit, and you've said nothing to show that it does matter.
So- one of the most important things a hitting coach does...they study the film...and then, they have to be able to communicate what they are seeing to a hitter. No different than a pitching coach noticing that a pitcher may be dropping the non throwing shoulder slightly or some other very minor nuance.
Is it Chilli vs the new guy? No idea. But, something sure as hell ain't working. And since it is the entire team- that has to fall on one guy.
No evidence to support this? The team not one just one player is not hitting. There is a systemic failure which you choose to ignore. Last in runs scored, bottom 5 in home runs and third from last in OPS. That is more than players running hot or cold. You are ignoring the fact that the entire team cannot hit a breaking ball and does not have the discipline to lay off junk in the dirt. Not one player but the entire team.
If the team is not listening or not performing you do something to shake it up. This has worked numerous times in the past with many teams where a manager or coach was fired and the team started performing. A major trade can also shake things up. If you choose to recall, June 6, 1999 the Mets fired not one but three coaches. Shook the team up and they made the playoffs.
I'm not sure what else to say other than that you continue to push the notion that a long-term slump by multiple hitters can ipso facto be fixed by changing the hitting coach. And cite no evidence, other than a look-back to 1999, which by its remotness and singularity makes my point and, upon inspection, would no doubt fall apart.
Look, I get the frustation. I get it every time I see the other team score 2 runs and think to myslef, this game could already be over. But changing a hitting coach never fixes anything. If it did, teams would be paying millions for hitting coaches instead of thousands. Same with pitching coaches. Leo Mazzone was a great pitching coach with Atlanta, and then suddenly not when he moved to Baltimore. What changed? Not his coaching. Just the pitchers. Same thing, even more so, with hitters.
But sure, fire the hitting coach. I don't care. It doesn't matter.
Of course, it doesn't have to fall to one guy. But many times it does--pointlessly. Just as it did a couple of months ago. And changed nothing. And it won't happen now. Why? Because they already tried this useless maneuver.
The hitters/pitchers are responsible, but you can't dump all of them. Someone has to be held accountable and usually, it means the hitting coach, or the pitching coach, or even the manager gets the ax. Moving players is done during the off-season and even then the majority of the players are given another opportunity with that same team.
I do not know what to say other than the fact that you choose to ignore a systematic problem with the system. The entire team has not hit since the start of the season. That is more than just a slump.
Here is more evidence that firing a coach or manager can work. See the 2003 Marlins, 2004 Astros and 2009 Rockies. Three more examples which I am sure you will choose to ignore. Those teams had talent that was underperforming for whatever reason. Making the change put them in the playoffs.
I am not suggesting that whoever they hire as hitting coach will have the magic elixir to heat the bats up, it is the act itself that demonstrates to the players their performance is not acceptable. You can't fire the players so you send the message through firing the staff member responsible for that aspect of the game.
Here is more evidence that firing a coach or manager can work. See the 2003 Marlins, 2004 Astros and 2009 Rockies. Three more examples which I am sure you will choose to ignore. Those teams had talent that was underperforming for whatever reason. Making the change put them in the playoffs.
I am not suggesting that whoever they hire as hitting coach will have the magic elixir to heat the bats up, it is the act itself that demonstrates to the players their performance is not acceptable. You can't fire the players so you send the message through firing the staff member responsible for that aspect of the game.
So now you’re just endorsing firing someone even if it doesn’t fix anything. Sure. Fine. As long as you concede that it won’t fix the problem, I don’t much care. Because it won’t matter, just like it didn’t once this year already.
I left and went to see the patriot with my brother. We commented on the way out that the scene where the guy betrays his town and the town is locked in a church while it burned to the ground was as mad as I’ve ever been watching a movie. Then we turned on the radio and were stunned the Mets came back and won.
Stop with the BS. I never said that. What I said is the usual measures taken by teams. It doesn't solve the problem, but someone in management is happy.
You got to stop twisting what some post. You have a habit of doing this.
I’m not going to do your research for you. Show convincing numbers. Don’t just toss years out there and expect it to mean anything, or for me to find your evidence or undermine the evidence that you didn’t even present. This is your whacky theory, not mine.
I’d ask you to then show your comparator set, but I know that’s too much to ask of someone who hasn’t even bothered to show any supporting data.
You could instead explain why players are paid so much more than hitting coaches if it’s hitting coaches who can completely change the fortunes of an offense. This is all nonsense.
I really don’t know how this reworded explanation is any different from what I just said.
The only thing wacky is how someone actually does research, presents evidence and then you choose to ignore because it refutes your thesis. You asked for an example and I gave it you. You then claimed that was an outlier and I gave you three more examples. The facts and the evidence are there, you just refuse to see it. Your ignorance is actually rather amusing.
The argument is not about pay as you refuse to acknowledge, it is about accountability. If the players are not performing and you cannot fire the players, you fire the individual responsible for that aspect of the team. Quite simple really. You send a message that the performance is not acceptable.
He has a history of chastising posters on this board. He feels his opinion is the only one.
No reason to hash through this more. I've explained to you why you presented no evidence and just named teams and years. You think it's sufficient. Fine. You are on record believing that batting coaches are sufficiently effective and important that their replacement can signficantly alter the offensive production of a team. You can now change your profession to batting coach agent and get 10% of all the vastly better contracts that you'll be getting for these vastly underpaid batting coaches. I'm sure simply mouthing the words 2003 Marlins will get you those better deals.
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NYM Lineup 
ATL Lineup
Career vs M. Fried
| HITTERS | H-AB | RBI | HR | SB | AVG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| K. PillarCF | 37-167 | 20 | 8 | 2 | .222 |
| F. LindorSS | 59-273 | 26 | 9 | 6 | .216 |
| M. ConfortoRF | 29-132 | 14 | 2 | 0 | .220 |
| P. Alonso1B | 60-229 | 38 | 12 | 1 | .262 |
| J. McCannC | 49-204 | 28 | 7 | 0 | .240 |
| B. McKinneyLF | 37-171 | 19 | 8 | 2 | .216 |
| J. Peraza2B | 23-109 | 15 | 5 | 0 | .211 |
| L. Guillorme3B | 17-66 | 1 | 0 | 0 | .258 |
| D. PetersonP | 1-15 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .067 |
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