President Holloway to Yale?

[Eagleton96]

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that government support of poor people is intentionally designed to keep people trapped as loyal voters, rather than a genuine effort to help people?

Also, research and evidence is very strong that government support on the whole helps people get on their feet and get off public assistance, not the reverse.

From Chat GPT:


The impact of basic income support on long-term public assistance dependency has been a topic of considerable debate and research. Here’s a summary of key findings from various studies:

1. Reduced Dependency in Some Cases: Some pilot programs and studies have shown that providing basic income can lead to reduced dependency on public assistance programs. For example, experiments with guaranteed income, such as those conducted in parts of Canada, have shown that recipients often continue working and may use the funds to improve their employment situation by investing in education or reducing debt, which can decrease long-term reliance on other forms of public welfare.
2. Increased Financial Stability: Basic income programs can offer more financial stability, which in turn can lead to better long-term economic outcomes. With financial stability, individuals are less likely to need emergency public assistance and can plan for the future more effectively.
3. Mixed Evidence: While some studies suggest positive outcomes, the evidence is not universally conclusive. The effects of basic income on long-term public assistance dependency vary depending on the design of the program, the amount of money provided, and the specific socio-economic context in which it is implemented.
4. Behavioral Changes: There is evidence that basic income can lead to positive behavioral changes, such as increased school attendance and reduced healthcare costs, which could indirectly help individuals wean off public assistance as they become more self-sufficient.
5. Employment Effects: A major concern with basic income is the potential disincentive to work, which could theoretically increase long-term dependence on public assistance. However, many studies have not found significant reductions in work effort. In some cases, people use the basic income to seek better employment opportunities rather than leaving the workforce.

The real-world impacts can vary significantly, and ongoing research continues to explore these dynamics. Overall, while basic income has potential benefits that might reduce long-term dependency on public assistance, the specific outcomes depend greatly on how such programs are structured and implemented.

 

[Eagleton96]

I'm sure the people living in some of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago and Camden would disagree. I'm sure it helps a few folks escape the cycle of poverty but overall its a huge failure. Schools in those neighborhoods are only getting worse and if they were really trying to help them, why fight school choice in those same areas?

A big problem here in your thinking is the use of "they". I think you have this idea that there is a unified liberal bogeyman pulling the strings on all of this. School choice is very controversial even among Democrats, as is the huge role the teacher's unions play. There is no "they" that is both in favor of government aid to poor people and fighting school choice, because they want to keep poor people trapped and dependent to have them as voters. That's tinfoil hat territory.

 

[retired711]

Response to Retired 711, my comments are not incorrect, they are based on my own personal experiences while at Rutgers. While they may be dated, I have no doubt that the AAUP negotiating committee is still top heavy with senior tenured faculty.

Here's the list of the members of the AAUP negotiating committee:

Rebecca Givan, the chair, is an associate professor, not a full professor; Sarah DeGiorgis is an instructor (e.g. not even tenure-track) at Camden; Carla Katz is an associate teaching professor (again, not tenure track); Jim Brown is an associate professor at Camden; Carlos Ulises Decena is an associate professor; Maria Garth is a Ph.D candidate (again, not tenure track); Angela Lawrence is a librarian at Newark; Andres Moreira (now gone from Rutgers) was "a community engagement specialist" at the medical school in Newark; Todd Wolfson is an associate professor.

I wouldn't call those people "senior tenured faculty." None are senior, i.e. full professors, and only half are tenured. Perhaps you are thinking of the late Rudy Bell, who was a Distinguished Professor as well as union leader.

https://rutgersaaup.org/negotiating-committee/

 

[newell138]

A big problem here in your thinking is the use of "they". I think you have this idea that there is a unified liberal bogeyman pulling the strings on all of this. School choice is very controversial even among Democrats, as is the huge role the teacher's unions play. There is no "they" that is both in favor of government aid to poor people and fighting school choice, because they want to keep poor people trapped and dependent to have them as voters. That's tinfoil hat territory.

The "they" is the democratic party obviously. "They" are the ones who are against school choice for the most part. "They" are the ones who were for defunding the police in areas that actually need more police.

 

[mildone]

Many Americans are seedy AF.

Grooming kids - SCOTUS justices who cant define "woman" - erased borders - state sanctioned shoplifting, racism, spying etc. Business leaders/pols sold out to CCP. Universities are radical nuthouses. Churches are full of kooks and flops. Open law-fare in elections. Some Americans are great still but not most. WWII generation left a relative paradise aside from party of slavery/kkk down south. Boomers (as a whole) have left almost nothing intact

You’re entitled to your opinions. Others are entitled to other opinions. But they’re all just that: opinions. Nobody’s opinions, no matter what the opinions are, are what make this country great.

Individual freedom, OTOH, is part of what makes this country great.

 

[e5fdny]

I'm not pro Hamas. I'm saying the bad people in Hamas are similar to the bad people on the other side. I'm for peace and a two-state solution.

Wait, wut?

 

[e5fdny]

You’re entitled to your opinions. Others are entitled to other opinions. But they’re all just that: opinions. Nobody’s opinions, no matter what the opinions are, are what make this country great.

Individual freedom, OTOH, is part of what makes this country great.

As is our ability for our own personal responsibility for the consequences associated with some of our own actions...

I don't see the issue if an institution or an employer wants to discipline someone up to expulsion or firing if they do something against said institution's or employer's rules/codes, etc.

I see a Klan rally and what we have been seeing the past few months as something very similar in appearance.

 

[retired711]

As is our ability for our own personal responsibility for the consequences associated with some of our own actions...

I don't see the issue if an institution or an employer wants to discipline someone up to expulsion or firing if they do something against said institution's or employer's rules/codes, etc.

I see a Klan rally and what we have been seeing the past few months as something very similar in appearance.

FYI . . . I mentioned above the Brandenburg case. There Ohio tried to prosecute the sponsors of a Klan rally for advocating violence. The Supreme Court said it couldn't constitutionally be done unless Ohio could show that a speaker intended to incite "imminent unlawful action" and that the speech was likely to incite such action. Mere advocacy of violence isn't punishable, said the Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

 

[e5fdny]

FYI . . . I mentioned above the Brandenburg case. There Ohio tried to prosecute the sponsors of a Klan rally for advocating violence. The Supreme Court said it couldn't constitutionally be done unless Ohio could show that a speaker intended to incite "imminent unlawful action" and that the speech was likely to incite such action. Mere advocacy of violence isn't punishable, said the Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

If you are at a Klan rally or some of what we've seen recently and your school, job, family, whomever finds out I'm okay with the repercussions you face from the places and people I mentioned.

Like Jake and Elwood said, I hate Illinois Nazis too. But they should be allowed to do their thang...have their rally. Same on the campuses, to an extent.

That being said...the boss (school, job, your dad) finds out, I'm cool with what they do to you.

 

[retired711]

If you are at a Klan rally or some of what we've seen recently and your school, job, family, whomever finds out I'm okay with the repercussions you face from the places and people I mentioned.

The Supreme Court is also OK with it -- except that the government can't punish you (criminally or otherwise), e.g. you can't be fired by Rutgers because you were at the rally. Nor can you be punished for speaking at the rally so long as you don't incite imminent unlawful action.

 

[Eagleton96]

The "they" is the democratic party obviously. "They" are the ones who are against school choice for the most part. "They" are the ones who were for defunding the police in areas that actually need more police.

The idea of "defunding the police" is wildly unpopular with the large majority of Democrats. The idea is mostly talked about as a Democratic strawman on conservative media.

 

[e5fdny]

The Supreme Court is also OK with it -- except that the government can't punish you (criminally or otherwise), e.g. you can't be fired by Rutgers because you were at the rally. Nor can you be punished for speaking at the rally so long as you don't incite imminent unlawful action.

Just don't yell, "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse.

(old Steve Martin bit - lol)

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Is Yale a better option? They are in the news a lot lately, and it is not favorable.

View embedded media

Thats just one problem. Yale has the second largest endowment for a school of higher education in the U.S. That is a huge issue that yale does not have to worry about. All the other stuff can be dealt with a milquetoast response that gives the President just enough cover to keep their job.
Rutgers and other schools that do not have the size of the endowment that many other schools have is in a much more precarious position. Money is THE issue for many colleges and universities. The cost of getting a college education has become out of reach for most U.S. families and many kids are finding alternative ways to get a higher education or just go right into the workforce.
Rutgers has some big decisions ahead of it in regards to how it allocates money. The professors will never feel they are getting paid enough for indoctrinating our children into hating the U.S. Those liberal retards think they are the smartest people in the room and should be paid huge sums for their indoctrination. My prediction is many colleges are going to go bankrupt over the next 20-50 years. Rutgers will not be among them.

 

[retired711]

The idea of "defunding the police" is wildly unpopular with the large majority of Democrats. The idea is mostly talked about as a Democratic strawman on conservative media.

I don't want to intervene in a private debate, but I remember being absolutely unable to convince a Black activist that the idea and slogan were terrible.

 

[e5fdny]

The idea of "defunding the police" is wildly unpopular with the large majority of Democrats. The idea is mostly talked about as a Democratic strawman on conservative media.

It's evolved over time is more like it. The "they" as mentioned earlier on the thread did say it, maybe not verbatim or possibly taken out of context. But it was said.

 

[retired711]

It's evolved over time is more like it. The "they" as mentioned earlier on the thread did say it, maybe not verbatim or possibly taken out of context. But it was said.

Basically the people pushing the slogan found it was unpopular even with Black voters and did their best to walk away from it. Blacks don't want to be victims of police brutality -- but they also don't want to be victims of criminals. I cannot, btw, resist the temptation to post this (to me) hysterically funny (and true!) video by Chris Rock.

 

[Knight Shift]

Brown is an associate professor at Camden who is the campus AAUP leader. He has continually been an vigorous opponent of Holloway. Everyone else quoted in the article is also a continual opponent of Holloway -- no doubt that's why the reporter selected them to be interviewed. That's why it's a hatchet job IMHO.

Agreed, then. Maybe they could not find professors who had kind things about Holloway, or if they did, they did not think it would "fit" their narrative. As we know, negative news sells and generates clicks and attention. Happy news does not.

 

[mildone]

Who is hero worshipping? Of course America is great but it could always be better. Right now its not so great if you are Jewish or living paycheck to paycheck trying to buy groceries or the parent of a child in the military or the spouse of a police officer. Its also not so great if you live in cities like Chicago, Camden or many other cities where the schools are failing to educate multiple generations and the cycle of poverty and violence continue to ensure they have to rely on the government to survive and vote a certain way.

Duh. Of course the country could always be better. That has always been the case, no matter whom we elect. It will always be the case, no matter whom we elect.

That's what makes the MAGA slogan (along with most other presidential slogans) so laughably lame. "Build back better"? Give me a break. Such slogans are always 100% pure marketing bullshit.

It's all the individual rights and freedoms that make this nation great. Not any political party or party ideology. Not any politicians. Not any election results. Not any symbols like a song or a flag. It's the idea of America as expressed through our declaration of independence and our constitution and our amendments applied, as best as we can, to every last citizen no matter how slightly represented they may be.

That's what makes this country great. Never perfect. But still great.

When people start thinking that election results can alter the true greatness of America, they've lost the thread. They're being tools of their chosen side's BS marketing hyperbole. That will insult roughly 80% of the people reading this. But people need to pull back from their deep immersion in all the marketing BS long enough recognize their complicity in being so intensely manipulated.

No? I'm wrong? Then why do about 80% of Americans perpetually disapprove of how Congress is doing its job going back multiple presidencies? I mean, we elected these people, did we not? Have we no sense of personal responsibility?

And Trump versus Biden? You really think that's what we'd have come up given a real choice? If the 2024 presidential election doesn't scream "we're being manipulated" to everyone reading this, I don't know what to tell you. Stop thinking "it's their fault". It's your fault. 80% of you, at least. Can't do anything about them. Do something about yourself.

We're so busy allowing ourselves to be manipulated into demonizing each other that we've stopped caring about how awful our leadership is and has been for decades. Until we stop doing that, until we start realizing that being a more perfect union is vastly more important than being "right" about a bunch of unprovable subjective BS, then we're just screwing ourselves.

The true greatness of America is that our founding fathers built our nation such that it will carry on just fine until we tire of being manipulated into being mindless finger-pointers. Even if we never do.

 

[mildone]

FYI . . . I mentioned above the Brandenburg case. There Ohio tried to prosecute the sponsors of a Klan rally for advocating violence. The Supreme Court said it couldn't constitutionally be done unless Ohio could show that a speaker intended to incite "imminent unlawful action" and that the speech was likely to incite such action. Mere advocacy of violence isn't punishable, said the Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Freedom is hard. Everybody wants freedom for themselves but is okay with taking away others freedoms.

I will say, I'm not sure I entirely agree w/SCOTUS about the advocacy of violence, as you present it. There's a very fine line between advocacy and incitement.

OTOH, yeah, we don't want law enforcement to be permitted to be the thought police. Perhaps further decisions will better clarify where that line is?

 

[retired711]

Agreed, then. Maybe they could not find professors who had kind things about Holloway, or if they did, they did not think it would "fit" their narrative. As we know, negative news sells and generates clicks and attention. Happy news does not.

It seems obvious to me that someone at the Yale Daily News does not want Holloway selected as president, and so generated an article to make him look bad. I know of faculty who praise Holloway highly and it would not have been difficult at all for the reporter to have found some.

 

[retired711]

Freedom is hard. Everybody wants freedom for themselves but is okay with taking away others freedoms.

I will say, I'm not sure I entirely agree w/SCOTUS about the advocacy of violence, as you present it. There's a very fine line between advocacy and incitement.

OTOH, yeah, we don't want law enforcement to be permitted to be the thought police. Perhaps further decisions will better clarify where that line is?

Let's put it this way: the speaker must not only be advocating imminent unlawful action (e.g. violence) but also must be doing so under circumstances likely to bring it about.

 

[retired711]

Let's put it this way: the speaker must not only be advocating imminent unlawful action (e.g. violence) but also must be doing so under circumstances likely to bring it about.

Maybe it helps to consider the indictment of Trump for conspiring to overturn the election. The indictment does not charge Trump for his speech to the crowd on January 6; the special prosecutor concedes that the speech is protected by the First Amendment under the Brandenburg decision.https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/post/trumps-indictment-and-his-first-amendment-rights/

 

[mildone]

As is our ability for our own personal responsibility for the consequences associated with some of our own actions...

I don't see the issue if an institution or an employer wants to discipline someone up to expulsion or firing if they do something against said institution's or employer's rules/codes, etc.

I see a Klan rally and what we have been seeing the past few months as something very similar in appearance.

I am not sure to what you're referring to seeing happening the past few months.

I don't watch or read news. However, I can see, as I scroll rapidly past it, social media posts by various friends of varying political leans complaining about things they perceive as bad behavior by some of our fellow Americans. I can see that lots of people are upset with lots of other people. And there is widespread disagreement about everything.

But when is that not the case? I cannot recall any time in my life when some people were engaged in some behavior other people disagreed with, often vehemently. It's a constant.

I was talking about what makes America great and how it's sure not elections or politicians or political parties. I'm not sure how "but bad stuff is happening right now" negates what I was saying when there's always bad stuff happening. That bad stuff is happening kinda proves my point.

 

[ashokan]

I can see that lots of people are upset with lots of other people. And there is widespread disagreement about everything.

Actually there is more agreement than there has been in quite awhile - and it includes around the globe. You should be able to see it but you're in your hardened bunker of nihilist rationalizations. Of course all the best people take heart and resolve to do nothing about anything. Carry on soldier...

 

[e5fdny]

I am not sure to what you're referring to seeing happening the past few months.

I don't watch or read news. However, I can see, as I scroll rapidly past it, social media posts by various friends of varying political leans complaining about things they perceive as bad behavior by some of our fellow Americans. I can see that lots of people are upset with lots of other people. And there is widespread disagreement about everything.

But when is that not the case? I cannot recall any time in my life when some people were engaged in some behavior other people disagreed with, often vehemently. It's a constant.

I was talking about what makes America great and how it's sure not elections or politicians or political parties. I'm not sure how "but bad stuff is happening right now" negates what I was saying when there's always bad stuff happening. That bad stuff is happening kinda proves my point.

What I'm saying is when you engage, in whatever behavior, sometimes there are consequences from your employer/school/etc. that you have to be ready to accept and deal with.

See what happened to those Google employees for example.

 

[cyrock3]

Rutgers has a lot of antisemitism to clean up. One of the worst universities for Jewish students based on the ADL audit.

You are being redirected...

--- ADL College Scorecard

It’s not good, but one of the worst?

You are being redirected...

I think pretty bad is probably a better descriptor. I do think it’s important to note that it could get worse!

 

[vic_torre42]

Both far left and far right have blatantly doing it in the near past. For example, "Jewish Space Lasers". Both extremes need to be dealt with and neither party has the courage to deal with it within their own caucuses.

The anti semetic hate rallies by leftist extremists on college campuses are deplorable.

But Democrat politicians and voters have not come out and strongly condemned them as of yet.

-vic

 

[HPNJRUfan]

Those liberal retards think they are the smartest people in the room

 

[Knight Shift]

 

[HPNJRUfan]

View embedded media

Really don't care about the political BS that you all seem wrapped up in, but to use the "r" word as a slur like that exudes intelligence.

Thanks, but no thanks for participating. Figured people would want to discuss potential goings on at the highest level of University leadership, but I guess you're all more concerned with being "right". Sad but expected.

 

[Knight Shift]

Really don't care about the political BS that you all seem wrapped up in, but to use the "r" word as a slur like that exudes intelligence.

Thanks, but no thanks for participating. Figured people would want to discuss potential goings on at the highest level of University leadership, but I guess you're all more concerned with being "right". Sad but expected.

No need to lump me in with others. Not wrapped up in anything except thoroughly disgusted by this current administration, which can't seem to do a single thing right and has f'd up nearly everything they have been involved in. "Right" lol. Disgusted moderate.

 

[MulletCork]

Columbia University announced today that it's moving to online classes for the rest of the school year, since the school cannot even provide a safe learning environment. $90K a year for that? Good to see folks like Robert Kraft withdrawing monetary and other support from this mess. Columbia and others are going to learn a hard lesson - fucc around and find out.

 

[mildone]

Actually there is more agreement than there has been in quite awhile - and it includes around the globe. You should be able to see it but you're in your hardened bunker of nihilist rationalizations. Of course all the best people take heart and resolve to do nothing about anything. Carry on soldier...

Everybody wants me to hate what they hate and gets offended when I don't.

And Nihilist? Really? Because if I don't hate who you hate I must lack moral principles and find life meaningless? Is that the choice then? Hate gives meaning to your life? Is that how it works? 🤣

Sorry 80%. I don't hate anybody except terrorists or other people who set out to intentionally prey on the innocent or weak. My, what an amoral person I must be, here suffering in the dark depths of my nihilism. 🙂

 

[bac2therac]

Columbia University announced today that it's moving to online classes for the rest of the school year, since the school cannot even provide a safe learning environment. $90K a year for that? Good to see folks like Robert Kraft withdrawing monetary and other support from this mess. Columbia and others are going to learn a hard lesson - fucc around and find out.

shameful and evidence of the rot at most of the highest so called ivy league

 

[vic_torre42]

View embedded media

Bill Maher actually said that recently about himself.

-vic

 

[mildone]

What I'm saying is when you engage, in whatever behavior, sometimes there are consequences from your employer/school/etc. that you have to be ready to accept and deal with.

See what happened to those Google employees for example.

Ah. Okay. I certainly agree that bad behavior can and often should have negative consequences.

People these days seem to confuse constitutional rights and the employment agreements most people have to sign these days that says "leave your religion, politics and other personal crap at home". The Google employees violated their employment agreements which was pretty dumb of them.

Where such people often seem to get it all wrong is in thinking that their particular protest should be okay, but that the protests of those with whom they disagree should be punished. Is not how it works, nor should it be.

 

[mildone]

The anti semetic hate rallies by leftist extremists on college campuses are deplorable.

But Democrat politicians and voters have not come out and strongly condemned them as of yet.

-vic

That weird. My FB feed is overflowing with posts from people whom I know to be extremely liberal Democrats in which they excoriate the apparent anti-Semitism around the nation these days. Maybe you just hang out with the wrong Dems?

Come to think of it, pretty much none of any of my many Dem and Rep friends ever match up with the demonization being flung from their political opposites.

If I were a cynical person, I might suspect that the people engaging in the broad stereotyping of their political opposites are being fed narratives filled with extremist examples in which the messaging is that everybody on the "other side" are perfectly represented by the extremist examples.

But that couldn't possibly be what's happening though, right? Politically obsessed people being led around by hyperbole-laced broadly applied stereotypes? That never happens, right?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. That could never happen. 😉

 

[ashokan]

Everybody wants me to hate what they hate and gets offended when I don't.

And Nihilist? Really? Because if I don't hate who you hate I must lack moral principles and find life meaningless? Is that the choice then? Hate gives meaning to your life? Is that how it works? 🤣

Sorry 80%. I don't hate anybody except terrorists or other people who set out to intentionally prey on the innocent or weak. My, what an amoral person I must be, here suffering in the dark depths of my nihilism. 🙂

Hey its great you cracked the code
.
The Rev War upstarts, Civil War rebels. Civil Rights pests - they should have just chilled-out. Nothing was new under the sun after all. Haterz!

 

[RUaMoose]

The anti semetic hate rallies by leftist extremists on college campuses are deplorable.

But Democrat politicians and voters have not come out and strongly condemned them as of yet.

-vic

They’re protesting Zionism & are not necessarily “anti-Semitic” But u conflate the two like most “Christian” boomer Zionist. I say rally on. It’s their right

 

[vic_torre42]

They’re protesting Zionism & are not necessarily “anti-Semitic” But u conflate the two like most “Christian” boomer Zionist. I say rally on. It’s their right

Get better sources and what in the world are you talking about.

-vic