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Rutgers vs PSU

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pish69

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Jan 11, 2016
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Here we are..my 2 favorite teams..I will admit I enjoy PSU a bit more but by far RU my 2nd favorite team to root for.

Here's what's expected..
Suriano tech/pin
Delvechio decision
Lee..major
Zain..tech/pin
Nolf..tech/pin
Joseph..5 point win margin to major
Hall..tech/pin
Nickal..tech/pin
Cassar..major ( i think we'll see Cassar since in NJ) if Shak tech/pin
Nevills..tech/pin

So basically we know RU is not winning. But if we want to evaluate how each team wrestles..we can do it on match by match basis and see if the wrestlers perform better or less than expected..

The only possible upset I can see is Keener beating Scott...

The reason I put tech/pin is because both are excellent accomplishments and don't want to say someone underperforms by not planting someone if they beat them 15-0
 
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piperthemutt said:
I see the Lewis and DeLuca matches as being closer - both are wrestling quite well.
Click to expand...

I am not taking anything away from the RU wrestlers..DeLuca going against a beast..this isn't Sorenson or Hayes he up against. Joseph has dominated everyone this season. Lewis has been scraping by. If Lewis can keep it within 4 I'd be happy. If he wins, I'd be shocked
 
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pish69 said:
Here we are..my 2 favorite teams..I will admit I enjoy PSU a bit more but by far RU my 2nd favorite team to root for.

Here's what's expected..
Suriano tech/pin
Delvechio decision
Lee..major
Zain..tech/pin
Nolf..tech/pin
Joseph..5 point win margin to major
Hall..tech/pin
Nickal..tech/pin
Cassar..major ( i think we'll see Cassar since in NJ) if Shak tech/pin
Nevills..tech/pin

So basically we know RU is not winning. But if we want to evaluate how each team wrestles..we can do it on match by match basis and see if the wrestlers perform better or less than expected..

The only possible upset I can see is Keener beating Scott...

The reason I put tech/pin is because both are excellent accomplishments and don't want to say someone underperforms by not planting someone if they beat them 15-0
Click to expand...
I could see MVB or RL with the upset... gravina is not getting teched unless his shoulder falls off..
 
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KidDagger said:
. gravina is not getting teched unless his shoulder falls off..
Click to expand...

I have tech/pin for everyone that should dominate. It's more likely Bo pins him. Bottom line..my point is anything less than a tech/pin is solid for Gravina or not good for Bo

As far as MVB upsetting Lee..are you basing that off anything or just a gut? So far in common opponents..Lee beat Diehl 22-10 and MVB lost by a point to him. Lee teched Schoop and Schoop tech'd MVB twice I believe
 
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pish69 said:
Here we are..my 2 favorite teams..I will admit I enjoy PSU a bit more but by far RU my 2nd favorite team to root for.

Here's what's expected..
Suriano tech/pin
Delvechio decision
Lee..major
Zain..tech/pin
Nolf..tech/pin
Joseph..5 point win margin to major
Hall..tech/pin
Nickal..tech/pin
Cassar..major ( i think we'll see Cassar since in NJ) if Shak tech/pin
Nevills..tech/pin

So basically we know RU is not winning. But if we want to evaluate how each team wrestles..we can do it on match by match basis and see if the wrestlers perform better or less than expected..

The only possible upset I can see is Keener beating Scott...

The reason I put tech/pin is because both are excellent accomplishments and don't want to say someone underperforms by not planting someone if they beat them 15-0
Click to expand...

This is so confusing. I'm not sure when your talking from a Rutgers fan perspective and when your talking from a psu perspective. Do you have one of those flags with half R and half psu? Do you have a dog named Scarlet and a cat named Nittany? What do you wear to the match a RU hat and psu sweatshirt? Who do you root for per match, the favorite/ the underdog? It's like being a Yankees and Red Sox fan or a Giants and Cowboys fan. Did you get oil and water to mix when you were a kid? Just so many questions left to be answered.
 
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koleszar said:
This is so confusing. I'm not sure when your talking from a Rutgers fan perspective and when your talking from a psu perspective. Do you have one of those flags with half R and half psu? Do you have a dog named Scarlet and a cat named Nittany? What do you wear to the match a RU hat and psu sweatshirt? Who do you root for per match, the favorite/ the underdog? It's like being a Yankees and Red Sox fan or a Giants and Cowboys fan. Did you get oil and water to mix when you were a kid? Just so many questions left to be answered.
Click to expand...

Good point..it is tough..I will be at match Sunday..I will cheer for whoever wins each match :). I never really watched college wrestling until Molinaro went to PSU since I followed him thru hs (went to a ton of HS matches back in the day). When Cael got to PSU, and I saw how his teams wrestled it was like something I've never seen before. In that same time period, Goodale got the job and Winston followed..so since that time I converted to college more than HS. So I guess at this point..I'm a big Goodale guy and I like the jersey kids. I also love watching the PSU style with the top kids and how they just go out and dominate. These are top kids out of HS, but Cael and staff keeps them dominating even at the college level.

So my dilemma is I love Jersey, like Goodale, will always root for Jersey kids but then not too far away is IMO the greatest college wrestler that trains stone cold killers on the mat. PSU has a "style" and I like it..

Hence the two teams..
 
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pish69 said:
I have tech/pin for everyone that should dominate. It's more likely Bo pins him. Bottom line..my point is anything less than a tech/pin is solid for Gravina or not good for Bo

As far as MVB upsetting Lee..are you basing that off anything or just a gut? So far in common opponents..Lee beat Diehl 22-10 and MVB lost by a point to him. Lee teched Schoop and Schoop tech'd MVB twice I believe
Click to expand...


I think Pish is pretty spot on here. We're gonna get mauled lol. I am going to make a list of what I would call "good signs for March".

125-- Suriano is gonna do what he does. Anything less than a tech is alarming as we try to peak in March.

133-- SDV has a tough match here. Keener isn't a chump. If Scott decides to wrestle 7 minutes like he is capable of he should win comfortably. This is a good chance for him to show up big against a likely NCAA qualifier.

141 -- MVB is in for a tough match. Lee is a ridiculous talent who has been training in the PSU room for a year. MVB needs to score a few takedowns to show he can hang with a guy who will likely make the blood round or better. Lee is prone to going for big moves, Kaden Gfeller caught Lee at scuffle, so MVB has a shot at getting lucky, but he needs to out pace lee which will be tough. To me this match says whether or not MVB qualifies the weight.

149-- See above. if ED can score a few on Zain, get out quick, get in on shots, its a good sign to me. He'll qualify the weight either way IMO.

157-- This is tough... JVB is funk. Nolf is funk. JVB is not on Nolf's level. Can he score a few times? Can he make Nolf earn it? Can he wrestle a full 7 minutes? Those are wins. JVB shouldn't try to beat Nolf at his own game. If he can keep this under a tech its a huge sign.

165--- Richie might show up big and make this a BTN in 60 match, but I don't think he gets over the hump. If he can keep it to a decision wherein he actually scores, I think its a good gauge for if he can AA this weight.

174-- Mark Hall is going to have his way with Pagano or Grello.

184-- Gravina is going to come out angry against Nickal since last time he was packed. I think he still gets packed again.I don't know if this guages anything for Nick for March.

197/HWT-- We arent qualifying either weight.
 
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I love RU Wrestling. DeLuca tries to keep it close but it’s a tech. Lewis does not have the strength to fight off Joseph. Lewis only chance is not to get into ties with Joseph. Lewis strength is shooting from space. He ties up with Joseph he is getting pinned. Not bashing here just my opinion.
 
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DeLuca seems to be cutting too much weight and is running out of gas later in the season. What does he weigh around the off season?
 
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pish69 said:
Here we are..my 2 favorite teams..I will admit I enjoy PSU a bit more but by far RU my 2nd favorite team to root for.

Here's what's expected..
Suriano tech/pin
Delvechio decision
Lee..major
Zain..tech/pin
Nolf..tech/pin
Joseph..5 point win margin to major
Hall..tech/pin
Nickal..tech/pin
Cassar..major ( i think we'll see Cassar since in NJ) if Shak tech/pin
Nevills..tech/pin

So basically we know RU is not winning. But if we want to evaluate how each team wrestles..we can do it on match by match basis and see if the wrestlers perform better or less than expected..

The only possible upset I can see is Keener beating Scott...

The reason I put tech/pin is because both are excellent accomplishments and don't want to say someone underperforms by not planting someone if they beat them 15-0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight and agree with DelV decision and Suriano with bonus points. I thought I read PSU may intentionally forfeit 125 if they start at that weight to silence the crowd. Any insight on that?
 
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RUTrack94 said:
Thanks for the insight and agree with DelV decision and Suriano with bonus points. I thought I read PSU may intentionally forfeit 125 if they start at that weight to silence the crowd. Any insight on that?
Click to expand...

No way in the world PSU forfeits to 125 unless they have no one healthy. Against Purdue last Friday Cael was very apologetic in his interview because PSU had to forfeit 125 because both the kids were sick. At that point they had two 125’s that both had flu. They also have a new kid a lot of PSU fans are excited to see. A grad transfer from boise State.

The only people talking about possible forfeit are some PSU fans that are salty with the Suriano transfer.


I will also say the match starts at 125. Cael is very traditional and I can’t remember 1 time it was Cael asking for the random draw of weights
 
Wrestlestat has it 33-8, when you insert Cassar, with no falls predicted. Of course, it only looks at the ELO differential, and assigns a win type, depending on that differential. It doesn't predict any falls for this match.

With Retherford, Nolf and Nickal posting 41 falls in 54 matches, plus Hall and Joseph adding in 12 more, I've got to believe someone is going to get stuck, more likely 2 or 3 someones. I'm going to go with Retherford and Nolf, with a final score of 35-8.

The closest match of the day will either be Keener/DelVechio or Cassar/Mulligan. Keener is 19-19 against common opponents with DelV being 16-17, although none of those common opponents happened this year for both guys. I think it's going to come down to the improvement Keener has made in the PS room this year.
 
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pish69 said:
No way in the world PSU forfeits to 125 unless they have no one healthy. Against Purdue last Friday Cael was very apologetic in his interview because PSU had to forfeit 125 because both the kids were sick. At that point they had two 125’s that both had flu. They also have a new kid a lot of PSU fans are excited to see. A grad transfer from boise State.

The only people talking about possible forfeit are some PSU fans that are salty with the Suriano transfer.


I will also say the match starts at 125. Cael is very traditional and I can’t remember 1 time it was Cael asking for the random draw of weights
Click to expand...
I'll just add that I don't think anyone was actually serious about it, nor thought that it would actually happen. Cael is just not that kind of guy. It was more of a, "wouldn't it be funny if.." discussion.
 
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RUTrack94 said:
Thanks for the insight and agree with DelV decision and Suriano with bonus points. I thought I read PSU may intentionally forfeit 125 if they start at that weight to silence the crowd. Any insight on that?
Click to expand...

I don't think Penn St is worried about the crowd being a factor in this match...
 
pawrestlersintn said:
Wrestlestat has it 33-8, when you insert Cassar, with no falls predicted. Of course, it only looks at the ELO differential, and assigns a win type, depending on that differential. It doesn't predict any falls for this match.

With Retherford, Nolf and Nickal posting 41 falls in 54 matches, plus Hall and Joseph adding in 12 more, I've got to believe someone is going to get stuck, more likely 2 or 3 someones. I'm going to go with Retherford and Nolf, with a final score of 35-8.

The closest match of the day will either be Keener/DelVechio or Cassar/Mulligan. Keener is 19-19 against common opponents with DelV being 16-17, although none of those common opponents happened this year for both guys. I think it's going to come down to the improvement Keener has made in the PS room this year.
Click to expand...
Keep sleeping on Richie... he lost to the bull big whoop.. he's gonna take it to Joseph.. it will be close
 
KidDagger said:
Keep sleeping on Richie... he lost to the bull big whoop.. he's gonna take it to Joseph.. it will be close
Click to expand...
Why? I mean, I don't care if you have that opinion, I would expect you to. But, why do you feel that way?

Joseph is a full size 165, meaning he is cutting down before the match to get to 165. Richie is an undersized 165. He may weigh 165, but he isn't cutting much to get down there, if any at all. He just didn't put on 8 pounds of muscle in the time that he's been up.

Joseph has beaten Massa , Wolf and Steiert (not ranked, due to RS, but 11th on WS), and you saw the bonus rate differences above. True, Richie has beaten 12, 13 and 15, but Valencia is a sketchy 15, as he's a shell of himself at this weight. And lost to Marinelli. Twice.

This might be the third closest match, and it might be a decision, but I think it will be a comfortable decision for Joseph.
 
pawrestlersintn said:
Why? I mean, I don't care if you have that opinion, I would expect you to. But, why do you feel that way?

Joseph is a full size 165, meaning he is cutting down before the match to get to 165. Richie is an undersized 165. He may weigh 165, but he isn't cutting much to get down there, if any at all. He just didn't put on 8 pounds of muscle in the time that he's been up.

Joseph has beaten Massa , Wolf and Steiert (not ranked, due to RS, but 11th on WS), and you saw the bonus rate differences above. True, Richie has beaten 12, 13 and 15, but Valencia is a sketchy 15, as he's a shell of himself at this weight. And lost to Marinelli. Twice.

This might be the third closest match, and it might be a decision, but I think it will be a comfortable decision for Joseph.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of questions will be answered this weekend.. As Marinelli has Massa Saturday night...
 
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jerzey devil said:
I don't think Penn St is worried about the crowd being a factor in this match...
Click to expand...

I don't know, they seemed pretty intimidated by record crowds against Ohio State and Oklahoma State last season. Pretty much turned tail and ran. Oops. They defeated both opponents handily. Both crowds were much larger than what will be at the former RAC on Sunday.
 
grapknight1 said:
BTW RU sold out because half the crowd from PS only 3 hours travel.
Click to expand...
Man those psu fans must just love RU wrestling, they traveled 3 hours to the Iowa and Ohio St. matches to watch us. I'd like to thank all the psu fans for helping to support our team. Because I'd didn't see a helluva lot of yellow and silver in the stands those matches. So it must of been psu fans dressed in red.
 
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grapknight1 said:
Please child. We are going to be lucky just giving up a decision.
Click to expand...
Richie is a world champion, so although it is a different style, it takes a certain mentality and toughness to accomplish that. He might surprise. Hopefully he’s on his A game.
 
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KidDagger said:
We will c tomorrow... wish there were vegas betting lines... I saw flo had RL +5.5... I'd wager a lot of money on this...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't... Not saying ur wrong, as I wouldn't touch that line either way...... But I can see Lewis taking Joseph to the wire just as easily as I can see Joseph winning by major...I really just don't know what to expect Sunday... But I will be excited to find out!!
 
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jerzey devil said:
I wouldn't... Not saying ur wrong, as I wouldn't touch that line either way...... But I can see Lewis taking Joseph to the wire just as easily as I can see Joseph winning by major...I really just don't know what to expect Sunday... But I will be excited to find out!!
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I want to see Lewis win. My problem is Lewis not the biggest 165. Joseph is a beast at 165. He is big upper and lower body. Lewis had problems with Marinelli in ties Joseph going to give him ever more. On a side note: Lewis spent the pre season talking trash on Twitter on how he was going to beat Nolf when Lewis was planning 157. Might give Joseph incentive your with the big men now.
 
RUTrack94 said:
Richie is a world champion, so although it is a different style, it takes a certain mentality and toughness to accomplish that. He might surprise. Hopefully he’s on his A game.
Click to expand...
It is clear had Marinelli entered U23 USA qualifying tourn as well as Nolf and possibly a few others. He would have never gotten to Poland. BTW it was a one time weight cut. If Lewis got down to 154 I am sure they all could have.
 
Just watched PS vs Minn. 165 I believe Lewis is better then Wenzek and he gave Joseph all he can handle. I still think Lewis is an underdog, but after watching that match it’s going to be closer then I said. I know styles mean a lot. Also I think Gravina got a chance of pulling the upset. Gravina is a bull.
 
grapknight1 said:
Just watched PS vs Minn. 165 I believe Lewis is better then Wenzek and he gave Joseph all he can handle. I still think Lewis is an underdog, but after watching that match it’s going to be closer then I said. I know styles mean a lot. Also I think Gravina got a chance of pulling the upset. Gravina is a bull.
Click to expand...

I love Gravina, but even with his shoulder 100% he's still a major 'dog...I'm sorry to say that Nickal is on a totally different level...
 
Does Mason Manville still go to PSU?
I remember him taking a year off and i thought he was redshirting this year.
Have heard nothing about him.
 
R U Crazy said:
Does Mason Manville still go to PSU?
I remember him taking a year off and i thought he was redshirting this year.
Have heard nothing about him.
Click to expand...

He’s still there. He redshirting. Wrestled in one tourney. I think he went 3-2. Didn’t look great in his losses. Needs a lot of work offensively. Still hoping he can be a force down the road
 
pish69 said:
He’s still there. He redshirting. Wrestled in one tourney. I think he went 3-2. Didn’t look great in his losses. Needs a lot of work offensively. Still hoping he can be a force down the road
Click to expand...
Psu so loaded wit talent around his weightclass.. how many years will he even get in starting lineup?
 
KidDagger said:
Psu so loaded wit talent around his weightclass.. how many years will he even get in starting lineup?
Click to expand...

Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe 1? After Cenzo graduates. He trains Greco and I think that’s more his focus
 
Dinmore got tired of waiting, he tranferred to Rider, Pagano got tired of waiting, he transferred to RU, Dippery got tired of waiting at RU, he transferred to Rider, etc etc .

Heck , PSU could have 3 ranked 197 pounders with Shakur, Caessar and McCutcheon. Is McCutcheon still w their program?

The amazing thing, with only 10 schollies to divvy up among the entire roster, how do you keep everyone happy? At PSU do you need to be a National Champ to even get a full ride?
Guessing the non champs are getting smaller fractions.
 
pish69 said:
Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe 1? After Cenzo graduates. He trains Greco and I think that’s more his focus
Click to expand...
People expect him to have 3 years when Cenzo is done. Normally he would have 2 years but he likely will take a Olympic redshirt.
 
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