I don't believe too many people are claiming GS won't get hired somewhere. Like a Kansas State type program.
Schiano on Tennessee short list
- Thread starter vkj91
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What an amazing coincidence that Schiano's first bowl and winning season came immediately after Miami and BC (two teams he never beat) left the conference after 2004. Another team he never beat, VT, left after 2003.
I am sure those things had nothing to do with Schiano's "success" afterward, nothing at all. The "improvement" listed above would still have occurred had those schools not left, of course.
I am sure those things had nothing to do with Schiano's "success" afterward, nothing at all. The "improvement" listed above would still have occurred had those schools not left, of course.
I guess it depends what you mean by "a Kansas State type program." They have been far more successful than Tenn and Nebraska the past 6-7 years. They are a solid P5 program.
So.. I see.. you wanted him to beat number one Miami with his underclassmen recruits and Shea's leftovers.
Well.. there's all the proof you need.. he's a bad coach.. I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe you should have gotten all your primary research into the executive search committees at Miami, Michigan and Tampa bay. If only they had known this important information you have discovered..
Miami left in 2004. Over the next 12 years they never won more than 9 games (4x) and didn't get more than 7 wins 7x. And that was in the friggin' ACC (not the SEC). Coaches change and programs rise and fall. Miami wasn't "Miami" and hasn't been until this year. Also, the teams you mentioned were replaced by other teams that we did not have a lot of success against. Rutgers started to win because we got better than Pitt, Cuse, etc.
I believe his teams still would have been pretty good 2005-2009 regardless. He started getting some real players on the team just about then. Britt, Underwood, Sanu, Rice, Leonard, Joe M, those olines, Sosa, Zuttah, Stapleton, Stephenson, Haslam, Davis...on D, Meekins, Foster, Girault, Greene, McCourty;s a bunch of our LB'rs etcetcetc those were a bunch of legit BCS players. We were light when it came to depth though. And losing to teams like WVU and Cincy so often were only on coaching and depth.
I'm convinced we would have knocked off #1 Miami in 2002 if that BS PI on Nate Jones didn't get called, negating a 100+ yard INT return TD which would have sent us into halftime with a 24-8 lead.
Good 'Ol....so you believe that RU's "rise" was real and unrelated to those 3 defections ? Our records would have been roughly the same either way even if those schools stayed ?
What a remarkable coincidence. The defection timeline exactly matches RU's sudden rise to .500 and yet there's no connection at all !
What a remarkable coincidence. The defection timeline exactly matches RU's sudden rise to .500 and yet there's no connection at all !
What does those 3 schools leaving have to do with the fact that we got better than Cuse and Pitt? Isn’t that really what we’re talking about? We went from the bottom of the Big East to generally 3rd or 4th after they left. That was the “rise”. Yeah, I get it, that’s not much of a rise at a lot of programs but for us it was.
Does anybody really know how much control GS had over the offense? Certainly when he was DC and HC he probably had to be more hands-off.. but still he was "credited" for being too conservative on offense.. especially in the 2nd half with leads. We all know this.. right?
In 2009 he named Flood and Ciarocca co-OCs while also naming a DC.. so he likely had more involvement with the offense... which was CRAP once Marone figured out those deep handoffs could be attacked with a blitzing LB every damn down. Syracuse killed us in 2009 and bunch of teams saw that in 2010 and repeated the process.
We lost a close game to Syracuse in 2010 that looked very very different than the offensive scheme we had run in 2009 and most of 2010. And we beat them in 2011. I recall some talk, at that time, of GS getting more hands-on with the offense... and he "demoted" Flood to associate head coach for 2011.. probably to get him away from co-OC duties... because that scheme was pure shite... I cringe now seeing those deep handoffs where the QB has his back to the LOS.. rare though they are today.
As for the Big East.. they did pretty well in OOC play and bowl games after those teams left. It was always a much better conference than ESPN would admit.. when Miami was there ESPN would say the Big East is top heavy.. Miami and no one else.. Miami would crush in their OOC games and then have their biggest tests in conference play. So it was never really top heavy.
Schiano had fatal flaws.. all coaches do.. someone like Saban.. his are masked by superior talent and a bottomless well of money. He couldn't handle the hurry-up offense.. tried to get rules changed to make it more friendly to his preferred lineup of huge bodies on the DL... but he saw that was going nowhere so he just changed his recruiting and his offense runs the no-huddle now too. We do not know what Schiano can do at a "name" program. It will be interesting to find out.
And just look at the number of guys he put into the NFL from that time period. Never before and never since for the RU program. Yet, it was all luck. Well, our luck ran out right around the time GS departed. One good year under Flood with a GS roster, and we now have what we have. Coincidence?
Beat two top 5 teams back to back years......now give me my internet comeback chain!!!!
I mean a team that has a reasonable mix of opponents, quality-wise, and isn't in the Big Ten or SEC.
KS beat WVU not only once, but five times. So maybe that's not as good a fit for Schiano as I originally thought. Although KS lost to WVU the past two times they've met. So it's not exactly clear. [winking]
Yes.. that's right. that 2006 team could have beaten any of them the way they played. Louisville beat Miami 31-7 in 2006 and we beat them. We should have beat WVU (refs screwed us twice and we beat ourselves on a missed TD pass). UofL, WVU won the Orange and Gator bowls over ACC teams (and GTech finished ahead of VTech there). Rutgers won its bowl vs a KState team that had beaten number 4 Texas late that season.
Similar comparison points existed in other seasons.
And maybe if those teams were still in.. GS's recruiting might have been EASIER as their leaving weakened the draw of the Big East. He could tell Florida recruits that they would play in Miami twice during their careers.. once Miami left.. not so much. VTech doesn't matter in that way though they do get NJ recruits now and then.. VTech.. they actually got BETTER after they left the Big East. Why?
You say those teams leaving made GS' success easier.. it did not. It made things harder because it all comes down to recruiting and the Jersey recruits want to be "big time" and that message is hard to sell in a failing Big East.
KState and Snyder have a formula.. they rely on JC players.. there are a lot of JC football programs in that region.. they trust Snyder and KState and, obviously, they run a system on O and D where players do not have to be in that program 4 years to do well. They are able to achieve a certain level of success.
I think Pikiel is following a similar formula here for Rutgers basketball. He needs bodies to compete and he is finding them where he can get them.. and they work hard once here.
I do not think GS can do that.. JC players are probably in JC because they don't do everything they need to do to meet requirements for D1... I don't see GS' doghouse being big enough to handle a large number of JC xfers... unless he has changed.
I had a long running inner debate about whether GS's doghouse was a good thing or a bad thing. I think it might have been a bit too easy to get stuck there, and I do mean "stuck" as once players landed there, it seemed extremely hard for them to dislodge themselves.
Hard to really know from outside the program. But some comments from players that weren't in the doghouse (Anthony Davis springs to mind) made it seem like a possibility.
bitnez....I am not talking about Pitt and Cuse. I am talking about Schiano's supposed "accomplishments" and program building legacy.
Once the Cadillacs and Beemers leave the car show, and your Chevy now becomes one of the nicer cars in the show, your Chevy hasn't changed. That's what happened. Sure, this boosted the perception of our program. Perception is important, don't get me wrong.
But the fact is our perception boost after the Shea era has much less to do with Schiano and a lot more to do with the Cadillacs and Beemers leaving the car show. Another big factor was bowl proliferation at that time.
Schiano wasn't a failure like his predecessor, but his reputation far exceeds his actual accomplishment here. He was "ok."
Once the Cadillacs and Beemers leave the car show, and your Chevy now becomes one of the nicer cars in the show, your Chevy hasn't changed. That's what happened. Sure, this boosted the perception of our program. Perception is important, don't get me wrong.
But the fact is our perception boost after the Shea era has much less to do with Schiano and a lot more to do with the Cadillacs and Beemers leaving the car show. Another big factor was bowl proliferation at that time.
Schiano wasn't a failure like his predecessor, but his reputation far exceeds his actual accomplishment here. He was "ok."
That this thread is 5 pages (so far) speaks to the need for some serious therapy.
Well I guess that gets back us back to do you count a teams rwnking when you play them or how they finish. I prefer when you play them so I'd give him credit for that. But let us be honest, 9-4 USF ain't no #2. And the next 5 seasons?
This is classic over the top fandom. When things were great it's because Schiano was in control. When bad it was someone else's fault. Flood was never involved in play calling. It was a sham title for extra pay. Yes the BE was better than people gave them credit. He was a 500 coach and I don't want to hear how great he did in OOC. He scheduled horrific teams and still lost to Tulane year 10. Let's just be honest, you love GS and nobody can ever disagree with you or they are a hater.
We beat Maryland this year. Maryland beat Texas this year. On a neutral field, how many points do you think we'd be favored over Texas?
I actually prefer the reverse. What the ranking is at the end of the season and is based on the full body of work. Just like the CFP committee starts doing it at least after a good portion of the season is played.
The preseason rankings are hyped and based off the previous season so hard to say how accurate they are. End of the season ranking is better to me and if you beat someone who ended ranked in my mind is better than someone who was ranked and then didn't end up ranked.
What Snyder has done there is exactly what he should have. It's one of those kind of "workarounds" I talk about. All schools aren't created equal and you try to find ways to get around issues, within the rules of course.
I read about the Leavitt thing. He's coached there under Snyder IIRC and sort of grew up in the program alongside the Stoops and Venables as well I think. I read Snyder wanted his son to take over and put a kibosh on the thing but who knows if that's true or not.
That would help me. Don't know about some of these other folks.
You mean those days when football games were merely a social event to see old friends?
I don't disagree. Just thought if I threw them a bone they wouldn't think I was such a "hater" lol
It's not exactly inexpensive, as therapy goes. Plus there's always the small downstream problems of addiction and STDs. But it can be very effective. Or so I'm told.
Agreed.. I think GS had flaws.. of course.. but do we follow any other program as closely as this one? They all have flaws. I loved GS attacking D.. until he sees a 3rd and long and gives it up by sending the house.. AGAIN. Sooo stubborn. How many coaches have I seen here? Not counting Burns.. who never got a fair chance to see what he could do after we started scheduling up... lets see.. Anderson, Graber, Shea, Schiano, Flood, Ash.. that interim coach when Flood was suspended.. Schiano was clearly the best of them.. flaws included. Ash doesn't count. And we have seen many coaches at similar programs come and go.. 90% or more do not leave by choice.
Whew, I was getting worried. Eight posts into a Schiano thread and this is your first mention of the UCONN game? You're slipping.
I usually like to hold off until someone mentioned the monumental program changing win over #2 USF. Lol
OR.. you are a hater.
Why do you pretend that you are not a hater and that there is no such thing as haters? I don't pretend GS didn't have flaws or wasn't responsible for some failures.. just read the thread.. again and again I list flaws and failures.
I didn't even start this whole "hater" thing in this thread. Someone else said he found it amazing that haters come out every time GS is mentioned in a thread. And that was accurate.. yet he got challenged on the idea that haters exist in this thread.
Haters exist. You are one of them.
That is all.
I respectfully disagree that vkj91 is a GS hater. He posts facts that the Gregbots and Greg shrine builders find troublesome.
That IMO is not a hater.
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