The same way an adult does not tell his boss at work that he got a DWI over the weekend.
This assumption that Flood had to know appears silly
UPDATE: Source said Flood alerted RU admin in April
- Thread starter RCTrooper
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The same way an adult does not tell his boss at work that he got a DWI over the weekend.
This assumption that Flood had to know appears silly
The event happened in April. The post was on May.
To answer your question, it does not mean Flood knew in May. You are correct.
The thought of Flood knowing and not doing anything about it is terrible.
On the other hand, Flood (or anyone on the athletic department) not knowing anything about it a month later isn't good. Now I understand the athletic department isnt the NSA.
But man, if they honestly had 0 idea about it, those 15 criminals may have done the best job ever of keeping an incident quiet from EVERYONE. When you have 15 people involved with a crime, its difficult for everyone surrounding them to keep absolutely quiet. When I was that young news spread around quickly about other youngsters.
Robberies were separate from the fight. You had 3 robberies & 1 fight.
Here is a good breakdown with dates (Note Johnson isn't on the team & not in this chart but he was involved in all 4);
Here is the press release from the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office:
Nine of the 10 defendants were arrested today. One remains at large. The arrests stem from an active and continuing investigation by the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office and the New Brunswick Police Department.
The investigation began last spring when police were called to a home invasion on Prosper Street in New Brunswick on April 26, 2015 at 11:29 p.m., after three masked men forced their way into the home and stole an undisclosed amount of cash and marijuana from five students at gunpoint.
During an intensive investigation, police arrested Tejay Johnson, 23, of Egg Harbor. The former student was charged with robbery, criminal restraint, theft, and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose.
As the investigation continued, police linked Johnson to a home invasion on Hartwell Street in New Brunswick on April 27, 2015.
Police determined that Johnson and Andre Boggs, 20, of Coatesville, Pa., forced their way into the home and, armed with a bat and a knife, robbed a student of approximately $900 and an undisclosed amount of marijuana.
They were arrested today on charges of robbery, burglary while armed, and conspiracy to commit an armed robbery.
Another student, Dylan Mastriana, 19, of Rio Grande, also was charged with those counts after the investigation determined that he helped plan the robbery.
In a third home invasion, Johnson and Boggs were charged with robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery, and attempted burglary while armed for trying to force their way into another student's room in a dormitory complex at Livingston College in Piscataway on May 5, 2015.
The same charges also were filed against Mastriana, Jianan Chen, 19, of New Brunswick, and Kaylanna Ricks, 20, of Perth Amboy. The investigation showed that Mastriana and Chen planned the robbery, while Ricks drove Johnson and Boggs in a getaway vehicle.
Johnson and Boggs entered the dorm, but fled when the students targeted in the robbery resisted by closing and locking the door to their room as Johnson and Boggs attempted to force their way in. Nothing was stolen in that incident.
Police further determined that Johnson was one of six individuals who surrounded a group of at least four other individuals, including a Rutgers student, and assaulted them during an incident on Delafield Street on April 25, 2015.
The six were charged today with aggravated assault, riot, and conspiracy to commit a riot. A 19-year-old male student suffered a broken jaw during the unprovoked attack.
In addition to Johnson, defendants charged in the attack were identified as: Ruhann Peele, 22, and Nadir Barnwell, 20, both of Piscataway; Rahzonn Gross, 20, of Franklin Park, and Delon Stephenson, 22, and his brother, Daryl Stephenson, 23, both of Sayreville. Daryl Stephenson, also a former student at Rutgers, remains at large.
When are the mods going to start cleaning up some of this stream of conscious idiocy that winds up concluding "Flood knew and should be fired" without a thread of factual basis?
So you're telling me everyone knew, including Coach Flood, but yet somehow the authorities didn't and couldn't arrest these guys?
What? That's ludicrous. Stuff happens all the time that coaches & Admin don't know about. And how did 5 jump to 15? Stop making this worse than it is.
Separate and unrelated incidents but the way it was reported by the SL the perps in the fight appeared to be part of the burglary which they were not.
The second post (After my initial post) had a news article saying 15 unidentified men were involved in the fight. "Friend of 112" removed that post.
I never said 15 rutgers players. I am only posting facts as I find them and in search of facts.
I would say it's quite rare to have 5 football players involved in a fight where someones jaw is broken, it happened months ago, players are arrested for their part…and the coach have no wind of it.
Did Flood know, maybe not, for me it's difficult to believe he had zero knowledge.
Did Flood know, maybe not, for me it's difficult to believe he had zero knowledge.
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Team Captains.. they are the guys that are supposed to be on top of this stuff. they are the guys that should be hearing about this stuff.. and they are the guys that should have done something about this sooner to protect the rest of the team that wasn't going out and playing thug.
I just hope the players can rally.. for the right reasons. They need to look inward at each other and sweep the locker-room clean of whatever it is that allowed such behavior to take place and POSSIBLY to be tolerated by those who found out about it. Clean sweep.. zero tolerance for thug behavior.
I just hope the players can rally.. for the right reasons. They need to look inward at each other and sweep the locker-room clean of whatever it is that allowed such behavior to take place and POSSIBLY to be tolerated by those who found out about it. Clean sweep.. zero tolerance for thug behavior.
Some of the appealing qualities of Flood are the strong, passionate commitment that he displays toward his players - he comes across like a guy who would do just about anything to support his players - not in an unethical way - but in a relentless commitment to help them to succeed in life.
My point is that there could be a way that Flood became aware of trouble - and in a well meaning - but unwise - action he could have elected to address it "internally " -- this does happen in a lot of places - but when it is publicized it usually ends up looking like a mess
Just put it back up. I recall reading that back when it happened. I was not sure if it was the May incident you described and reddit linked.
Here another story that references a broken jaw:
...Johnson was also allegedly one of six men, including four current football players, responsible for an unprovoked assault that resulted in a 19-year-old Rutgers student suffering a broken jaw on April 25, the day before the first home invasion....
Prosecutor Charges Five Rutgers Football Players with Violent Crimes
RU Football Suffers Another Pre-Season Blow as Police Arrest Much of Their Starting Secondary on Charges of Assault and Armed Home Invasion Robberies
ARTICLE | SEPTEMBER 3, 2015 - 4:10PM | BY CHARLIE KRATOVIL, SCOTT LOGAN
An unmarked city police car was parked facing the wrong way near a Hamilton Street home that was searched by detectives. Charlie Kratovil
NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ—Authorities arrested five current members of the Rutgers Scarlet Knights football team just two days before the first game of the season.
In total, nine people were arrested and a tenth suspect remains at large, according to a statement from the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office (MCPO).
However, the MCPO press statement said that only four of the suspects were "Rutgers students" and did not mention that any were student-athletes.
The nine men and one woman face a slew of charges in connection with planning and executing multiple armed home invasion robberies, violently attacking someone on the street without provocation, and both stealing and dealing marijuana.
"Victims, who also were members of the student body, were targeted for their drugs and cash," according to the portion of the release about the home invasions.
With the exception of a failed home invasion attempt in a dormitory, all of the crimes occurred in the student-dominated Sixth Ward of New Brunswick, where thousands of Rutgers students are living on their own for the first time.
In response, Rutgers University announced that the five players were "suspended indefinitely," leaving the team with a badly depleted defensive backfield.
Boggs is being held on a $500,000 bail, and his alleged partner in crime, 23-year-old Tejay Johnson of Egg Harbor, is being held on $675,000 bail according to the statement.
For those three incidents, the two men have been face charges of robbery, burglary while armed, and conspiracy to commit an armed robbery, and Johnson, a former Rutgers football player, was also charged with "criminal restraint, theft, and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose."
The first two home invasions occurred on April 26 and 27, on Prosper Street and Hartwell Street respectively, according to the statement.
In the first incident, three masked men forced their way into the home and stole "an undisclosed amount of cash and marijuana from five students at gunpoint."
The next day, the same two men allegedly broke into a home just blocks away, armed with a bat and a knife, and robbed a student of "approximately $900 and an undisclosed amount of marijuana."
A third attempt to rob students--this time in an on-campus dormitory in Piscataway--ended with the students "closing and locking the door to their room as Johnson and Boggs attempted to force their way in."
Three others were charged with planning the robbery, including 19-year-old Perth Amboy resident Kaylanna Hicks, who allegedly drove the getaway car, as well as 19-year-old Rio Grande resident Dylan Mastriana, and 19-year-old New Brunswick resident Jianen Chen, who allegedly planned the robbery attempt.
Mastriana was also accused of planning the April 27 robbery on Hartwell Street, and is being held on $500,000 bail. Ricks and Chen are being held on $100,000 each.
A plainclothes police officer and an unmarked police car were seen on September 3 in the vicinity of 185 Hamilton Street, where they found and seized a little more than three ounces of marijuana, a stun gun, and $35,273 that the MCPO press release says "was raised in illicit drug transactions."
On August 29, prosecutors charged Chen with possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute, and possession of the stun gun.
Johnson was also allegedly one of six men, including four current football players, responsible for an unprovoked assault that resulted in a 19-year-old Rutgers student suffering a broken jaw on April 25, the day before the first home invasion.
The six men now face charges of aggravated assault, riot, and conspiracy to commit a riot in the incident, which took place on Delafield Street.
In addition to Johnson, the suspects include 20-year-old Nadir Barnwell, 22-year-old Ruhann Peele, both of Piscataway, 20-year-old Rahzonn Gross, 20, of Franklin Park, and Delon Stephenson, 22.
He is the player at the center of the ongoing controversy involving head coach Kyle Flood, who is currently being investigated for directly contacting one of Barnwell's teachers about his grades.
Barnwell was deemed ineligible to play last spring, and had already been ruled out for Saturday’s season opener against Norfolk State with an upper body injury.
On Tuesday August 25, Rutgers confirmed reports that they were investigating Flood for a potential violation of university policy, after he allegedly sent an e-mail to one of Barnwell's teachers, a part-time lecturer.
University policy dictates coaches have no direct contact with their players’ professors. Instead, that communication is to be handled by the academic support staff.
Sources told NJ.com that the academic support staff had advised Flood not to contact the faculty member.
If Flood is revealed to have been in violation of the University’s compliance policy, he could face a public reprimand, a suspension or even a termination of his contract.
Later on the same day, Rutgers announced that five football players would be suspended for the first half of Saturday’s season opener as punishment for violating the team's curfew.
The players included Peele, quarterback Chris Laviano, wide receiver Leonte Carroo, linebacker Kevin Marquez and punter Tim Gleeson.
Boggs and Peele were listed as starters at cornerback for the first game, though Peele was already suspended for the first half of Saturday’s game for the curfew violation.
Now Rutgers will likely turn to redshirt freshman Isaiah Wharton or true freshman Jarius Adams to start opposite true freshman Blessuan Austin.
Stephenson was listed as the starting free safety on the official depth chart, but junior Anthony Cioffi is expected to take over following Stephenson’s suspension.
Gross was listed as a backup fullback on the depth chart.
Stephenson's brother, 23-year-old Daryl Stephenson, "remains at large" and has not yet been arrested. Daryl Stephenson spent the past four seasons with the Rutgers football program before leaving the team in February.
Delon Stephenson is being held on $75,000 bail, while his brother and three teammates are being held on $25,000 bail.
About the Authors
Charlie Kratovil
Editor
Charlie is a community organizer in New Brunswick, and a Rutgers journalism graduate. He can be reached at (732) 993-9697 or editor@NewBrunswickToday.com.
Scott Logan
Reporter
It's also being reported that he knew players on the team were being investigated but didn't know the depth and seriousness of the crimes. Also that he's probably going to have to explain to admin why the 5 players arrested practiced through the summer up until Weds.
Oh no! Didn't Pernetti report Rice's tape to Barchi. Then Barchi did nothing and
wound up firing Tim to cover his own ass. Will this happen again? Sounds like the President and AD knew all along.
As others stated, a good program has eyes and ears everywhere. It's the only way to keep 100+ kids from all sorts of backgrounds in line. So there are 2 possible things that happened here:
1) the program is out of control and Flood has no idea what's happening with his team (I witnessed this during the Shea era).
2) Flood knew something was up but was hoping the investigation would turn up nothing. I'm fine with this as long as he notified Hermann of the situation and they both agreed that it was okay to let them practice until something definitive happens.
If he kept everything to himself then there is a problem.
1) the program is out of control and Flood has no idea what's happening with his team (I witnessed this during the Shea era).
2) Flood knew something was up but was hoping the investigation would turn up nothing. I'm fine with this as long as he notified Hermann of the situation and they both agreed that it was okay to let them practice until something definitive happens.
If he kept everything to himself then there is a problem.
This has been answered already. He knew. Told the proper people right away. There were 15 people there including other players. 5 had charges made against them. It seems to me he handled everything the right way. We are not the first team to have players arrested for a fight. I also find it extremely unlikely that this was an unprovoked fight no matter what the report says.
From the asshats at NJ.com - no link (deal with it). I guess the smallest sliver of good news for Flood.
AD ultimately to blame here if true? But shouldn't have Flood dug deeper if he knew something bad happened instead of an ostrich act? What a mess.
But a person close to Flood told NJ Advance Media late Thursday night that Flood was aware that an incident involving his players had taken place in April but he "didn't know the depth of what it was.''
...
But a person close to Rutgers' fourth-year coach told NJ Advance Media late Thursday night that Flood "did the right thing when he found out there was an issue, alerting athletics (officials) within 24 hours.''
AD ultimately to blame here if true? But shouldn't have Flood dug deeper if he knew something bad happened instead of an ostrich act? What a mess.
But a person close to Flood told NJ Advance Media late Thursday night that Flood was aware that an incident involving his players had taken place in April but he "didn't know the depth of what it was.''
...
But a person close to Rutgers' fourth-year coach told NJ Advance Media late Thursday night that Flood "did the right thing when he found out there was an issue, alerting athletics (officials) within 24 hours.''
In another article from Sullivan:
Not a good look for Flood. But as one well-connected source put it Thursday, probably not enough to cost him his job. “No one has the money to buy him out, and no one has the stomach over there to do it,” the source said. “There is no drumbeat for that.”
I don't know the how good this source is though considering it was reported that Flood's buyout was already funded privately. Now the money for a potential replacement is another question. Sounds like at least within the AD they don't want to let him go.
Not a good look for Flood. But as one well-connected source put it Thursday, probably not enough to cost him his job. “No one has the money to buy him out, and no one has the stomach over there to do it,” the source said. “There is no drumbeat for that.”
I don't know the how good this source is though considering it was reported that Flood's buyout was already funded privately. Now the money for a potential replacement is another question. Sounds like at least within the AD they don't want to let him go.
But shouldn't have Flood dug deeper if he knew something bad happened ...
Not necessarily - we don't have any facts here - if it was a situation where the NBPD said
"Coach, we are looking into this, we have asked them some questions and will continue to investigate - for now we have nothing else to say - it is a police matter & we will let you know when and if the situation changes"
If that was the situation - you can't seriously expect Flood to attempt to play Barney Fife & conduct his own investigation.
So, Flood found out there was an off-campus fight involving his players and reported it, and was aware that there was an ongoing investigation.
I'd have to assume he talked to the players in question over the summer. I'd imagine they downplayed the incident. If they didn't know the kid who got hurt, they might not have even known he had a broken jaw.
The Boggs/Johnson incidents are a whole other matter. If Flood had any idea that Boggs had been involved in multiple break ins, armed robbery, etc... I really doubt that he'd have been listed as a starting corner in the fall.
We'll know more soon enough.
I'd have to assume he talked to the players in question over the summer. I'd imagine they downplayed the incident. If they didn't know the kid who got hurt, they might not have even known he had a broken jaw.
The Boggs/Johnson incidents are a whole other matter. If Flood had any idea that Boggs had been involved in multiple break ins, armed robbery, etc... I really doubt that he'd have been listed as a starting corner in the fall.
We'll know more soon enough.
At least the 5 are all suspended now.
If we had good ol' Jimbo as our coach, they would still practice and play until the Trial.
If we had good ol' Jimbo as our coach, they would still practice and play until the Trial.
It's actually amazing that Flood, with his enormous salary, wasn't able to intimidate the police into dropping all charges.
Sadly for the SL, he actually acted appropriately and notified the administration. Regardless, let's bury the guy, he's a mediocre recruiter.
Sadly for the SL, he actually acted appropriately and notified the administration. Regardless, let's bury the guy, he's a mediocre recruiter.
The authorities have a higher standard of proof before they charge someone; they must do a thorough investigation first. A head coach is not constrained as such; he can put any player into his doghouse and make life very difficult for that player if he wishes.
Dollars to doughnuts if Flood did much digging the Ledger headline would read "Flood Tried to Influence and Corrupt Police Investigation."
I'm going to get killed for this but I find it hilarious that now it's us Rutgers fans making the "well, technically he reported it to the right people!" argument. This is why it's always dumb to take pleasure in other programs' wrongdoing.
If Flood was told by the police that several of his players were under investigation but wasn't given specifics on the individuals and/or charges, then he did the right thing by reporting this to Athletic Department higher-ups and then waiting for it to be completed. I'll reserve further judgement until more facts come out.
I don't disagree with the majority of your post but at least knowing he reported it is absolutely better than finding out he had no idea what was happening under his nose or that he engaged in a cover up like at other places.
Yeah, you're going to get killed for that. But quite honestly, reading some of the posts in this thread, I expected someone to say that he didn't want to ruin anyone's weekend.
the other group in the fight had AT LEAST 4 people... 5-4 or 5-5 or 5-6 or, or or.. Its not really that serious of a mismatch.
Why would Flood keep those guys from practicing? They are innocent until proven guilty. You practice in case the investigation turns up with nothing.. Why would you create a situation where all of a sudden you have these guys off the hook from the police but haven't practiced at all.. Floods job is to win games, don't forget that.
He IS NOT A JUDGE!! ITS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION!
STOP MAKING THE DAMN COACHES, TEACHERS, OR ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN THE STUDENT RESPONSIBLE FOR THINGS.
Flood and the rest of the staff are here to coach football and make sure kids go to class. They aren't crisis managers or therapists. There are other useless systems of people in place all over this land that are supposed to handle the other stuff.
Why would Flood keep those guys from practicing? They are innocent until proven guilty. You practice in case the investigation turns up with nothing.. Why would you create a situation where all of a sudden you have these guys off the hook from the police but haven't practiced at all.. Floods job is to win games, don't forget that.
He IS NOT A JUDGE!! ITS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION!
STOP MAKING THE DAMN COACHES, TEACHERS, OR ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN THE STUDENT RESPONSIBLE FOR THINGS.
Flood and the rest of the staff are here to coach football and make sure kids go to class. They aren't crisis managers or therapists. There are other useless systems of people in place all over this land that are supposed to handle the other stuff.
A off campus street fight is slightly different than on campus child rape.
I agree but a little difference between hey joe, I saw Sandusky having sex with a kid in the shower last night and hey Kyle, a couple of your kids were in a fight yesterday and we are investigating any wrongdoing.
If he had knowledge of Boggs' actions, that would make me look at him much more askance. A fight's a fight - there's going to be two differing stories of why it started, and the truth will be somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't expect anything more there than notifying proper channels, talking with the kids involved, and letting the police investigative process play out.
Repeated armed robbery, breaking and entering, and drug involvement, though? That's a different story. If Flood had any knowledge of that, and let the kid keep practicing (let alone be a starter), that's a different thing.
In both cases, though, it seems as though the police were aware before he was. Not so in the Sandusky situation.
How could anyone call a fight unprovoked? There was something that provoked it, but that does not justify it. Just like Geno and IK with the Jets, Geno did not deserve to get punched but there was a reason.
I have a hard time thinking Flood knew about Boggs. Dailey and Nelson were dismissed immediately. Boggs needs to be dismissed today.
I have a hard time thinking Flood knew about Boggs. Dailey and Nelson were dismissed immediately. Boggs needs to be dismissed today.
What we know now, by hearsay is the following:
NBPD told Flood
Flood reported it to the athletic administration (AD?)
The problem I am having is why in the world any of them were given 1st string status is beyond me. It is not fair to the other players and the team in general.
NBPD told Flood
Flood reported it to the athletic administration (AD?)
The problem I am having is why in the world any of them were given 1st string status is beyond me. It is not fair to the other players and the team in general.
"I would say it's quite rare to have 5 football players involved in a fight where someones jaw is broken, it happened months ago, players are arrested for their part…and the coach have no wind of it.
Did Flood know, maybe not, for me it's difficult to believe he had zero knowledge."
It may sound stupid, but why wouldn't a coach just pose the question to the team when a report like this comes out of New Brunswick? Just to make sure nobody on the team may have been involved.
I'm not saying to do this every time a story is in the news about an RU student getting arrested, just when something happens in New Brunswick.
Personally, if I was the coach (and it was legal to do with NCAA stuff, which I don't know about) I would have asked the team and made it clear that if any players were ever arrested or part of something like this AND DIDN'T notify the team, they would be suspended or dropped from the team.
Did Flood know, maybe not, for me it's difficult to believe he had zero knowledge."
It may sound stupid, but why wouldn't a coach just pose the question to the team when a report like this comes out of New Brunswick? Just to make sure nobody on the team may have been involved.
I'm not saying to do this every time a story is in the news about an RU student getting arrested, just when something happens in New Brunswick.
Personally, if I was the coach (and it was legal to do with NCAA stuff, which I don't know about) I would have asked the team and made it clear that if any players were ever arrested or part of something like this AND DIDN'T notify the team, they would be suspended or dropped from the team.
They were arrested due to an uprovoked attack. It's up to the judicial system to determine if that's really the case. Any defense attorney would challenge the characterization of the fight as unprovoked.
I agree that I doubt Flood knew about Boggs. Beyond Dailey and Nelson being dismissed, he also suspended Peele and Larrow as soon as he found out about their actions. He wouldn't have had him starting if he knew what he was involved in.
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