Chris Ash Reflects on His Time at Rutgers

[Plum Street]

Greg brown and his stupid board and Hobbs could have just asked plum street .

Ash will get us Smashed

Not a big fan of this hire. I will support it , but I believe we will be posting a lot of 'ash will get us smashed ' on this board in years to come . Remember plum street coined the term' flood the dud ' before the 2012 season . I hope I am proven wrong and 'ash won't get us smashed '. Time to...

rutgers.forums.rivals.com

 

[RedTeam1994]

Not sure how this is anything good in regard to Ash- dude went from a B1G HC to a scout...

A well deserved downward trajectory in his career

 

[Scarlet83]

He sucked enough at every aspect of running a program, but the pre-emptive middle finger he gave to the program's history and its recent success puts him over the top as the worst of all time.

Exactly. F Ash.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

We knew !

Ash will get us Smashed

Not a big fan of this hire. I will support it , but I believe we will be posting a lot of 'ash will get us smashed ' on this board in years to come . Remember plum street coined the term' flood the dud ' before the 2012 season . I hope I am proven wrong and 'ash won't get us smashed '. Time to...

rutgers.forums.rivals.com

I love the way Plum brazenly plugs his own thread. remind the group what you did!

 

[Plum Street]

I love the way Plum brazenly plugs his own thread. remind the group what you did!

They don’t need to be reminded! But I do it anyway !

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

They don’t need to be reminded! But I do it anyway !

I love it plum. that is one of the legendary threads on this board! I don't care what the others say about you, I like you!

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Here is my assessment of Ash's time here. He had all the best of intentions but did not possess the skill sets Rutgers needed in a head coach. I started to sour on Ash right from the start when he stayed at OSU to coach in their bowl game after he took the Rutgers job. that was the first WTF moment I had with Ash. It all went downhill from there, Then he came in and at his first press confrerence trashed the program, tradition and fans. Even then I was still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. After the 2nd season I had seen enough to know that he was not going to be able to get it done. Ash is now long gone and Schiano is doing a great job building Rutgers into something.. I believe the best is yet to come for Rutgers football.

 

[RuSnp]

Greg brown and his stupid board and Hobbs could have just asked plum street .

Ash will get us Smashed

Not a big fan of this hire. I will support it , but I believe we will be posting a lot of 'ash will get us smashed ' on this board in years to come . Remember plum street coined the term' flood the dud ' before the 2012 season . I hope I am proven wrong and 'ash won't get us smashed '. Time to...

rutgers.forums.rivals.com

Fascinating. Check out the message from "rebucknik" on page 1 of Plums HOF thread - lamenting the loss of Ash as a Buckeyes fan. All-time number of messages from "rebucknik"? Just that one.... makes one wonder....

 

[Plum Street]

Fascinating. Check out the message from "rebucknik" on page 1 of Plums HOF thread - lamenting the loss of Ash as a Buckeyes fan. All-time number of messages from "rebucknik"? Just that one.... makes one wonder....

Too coincidental to be a coincidence !

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

This thread DELIVERED! 🥳😎

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Here is my assessment of Ash's time here. He had all the best of intentions but did not possess the skill sets Rutgers needed in a head coach. I started to sour on Ash right from the start when he stayed at OSU to coach in their bowl game after he took the Rutgers job. that was the first WTF moment I had with Ash. It all went downhill from there, Then he came in and at his first press confrerence trashed the program, tradition and fans. Even then I was still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. After the 2nd season I had seen enough to know that he was not going to be able to get it done. Ash is now long gone and Schiano is doing a great job building Rutgers into something.. I believe the best is yet to come for Rutgers football.

Yes - all of this. The way he tried to wipe out Rutgers previous identity and traditions really bothered me. Let’s get rid of everything done previously at RU and replace it with OSU customs as if that might somehow make their winning rub off on us. It was condescending and off putting at the time.

 

[DJ Spanky]

The way he tried to wipe out Rutgers previous identity and traditions really bothered me. Let’s get rid of everything done previously at RU and replace it with OSU customs as if that might somehow make their winning rub off on us. It was condescending and off putting at the time.

That turned off a LOT of people. Add in his attitude toward Rutgers Football alumni and his completely ignoring the HS coaches in NJ.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

My reflection on Chris Ash at Rutgers

HE SUCKED!

Ash and Flood both seemed to spend more time trying to look and sound like college head coaches than actually BECOMING capable head coaches. Cannot blame Ash for not following Schiano's pattern for success here.. but Flood?

Flood dismantled what Schiano built and then we made the mistake of hiring a Ohio State "DC" (who wasn't really responsible for OSU's successful D - hello "co-DC" Luke Fickell) and ASH then hired an OC who learned Houston's, then-great passing offense.. only to find that, like Ash himself, he wasn't responsible for that offense at all.

This is all confusing to me because Schiano then made the same mistake with the Oklahoma State OC.. here it was the head coach's offense.

But we did better on O last year and will improve again. 🤞

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I love the way Plum brazenly plugs his own thread. remind the group what you did!

That was very early in the Ash hire and in that thread I responded to someone saying "Plum is bum" with "Plum is so dumb".

The lesson being.. blanket support and blind faith and hoping we made a good hire is not the same thing as suspecting or even KNOWING we made a good hire. On the surface, "Big Ten DC for Ohio State under Urban Meyer" sounds great. And he "looked" the part. But any real look into him should have revealed that Meyer was looking to get rid of him (and not Fickell, the "co-DC") and that Wisconsin legend Alvarez recommended him as a favor... Wisconsin could have hired him any number of times after his first stint there.

Too bad the people making this decision did not experience the hiring of Terry Shea with the recommendation of a Hall of Fame NFL legendary Niners' coach. Had the powers that be experienced that you'd think they could tell a real recommendation from a fake one.

Come to think of that.. anyone remember how Schiano 1.0 was advised AGAINST taking the Rutgers job by SAINT JOE.. Joe Paterno? Tell me JoePA wasn't just trying to keep this hungry young coach out of his recruiting backyard. That was some self-serving BS.

 

[Plum Street]

That was very early in the Ash hire and in that thread I responded to someone saying "Plum is bum" with "Plum is so dumb".

The lesson being.. blanket support and blind faith and hoping we made a good hire is not the same thing as suspecting or even KNOWING we made a good hire. On the surface, "Big Ten DC for Ohio State under Urban Meyer" sounds great. And he "looked" the part. But any real look into him should have revealed that Meyer was looking to get rid of him (and not Fickell, the "co-DC") and that Wisconsin legend Alvarez recommended him as a favor... Wisconsin could have hired him any number of times after his first stint there.

Too bad the people making this decision did not experience the hiring of Terry Shea with the recommendation of a Hall of Fame NFL legendary Niners' coach. Had the powers that be experienced that you'd think they could tell a real recommendation from a fake one.

Come to think of that.. anyone remember how Schiano 1.0 was advised AGAINST taking the Rutgers job by SAINT JOE.. Joe Paterno? Tell me JoePA wasn't just trying to keep this hungry young coach out of his recruiting backyard. That was some self-serving BS.

I agree with most of this . But I am not sure if the joepa thing was as simple as keeping schiano out of his backyard . Paterno knew all too well Rutgers institutional problems. He also was a a little sore about how dick Anderson was treated and supported here

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Ash and Flood both seemed to spend more time trying to look and sound like college head coaches than actually BECOMING capable head coaches. Cannot blame Ash for not following Schiano's pattern for success here.. but Flood?

Flood dismantled what Schiano built and then we made the mistake of hiring a Ohio State "DC" (who wasn't really responsible for OSU's successful D - hello "co-DC" Luke Fickell) and ASH then hired an OC who learned Houston's, then-great passing offense.. only to find that, like Ash himself, he wasn't responsible for that offense at all.

This is all confusing to me because Schiano then made the same mistake with the Oklahoma State OC.. here it was the head coach's offense.

But we did better on O last year and will improve again. 🤞

I’m not particularly fond of the bundling of the Flood and Ash regimes together. Flood’s tenure didn’t work out - he clearly was not ready to step into Schiano’s role and didn’t know how to manage a team - hence all the off the court stuff that ultimately ended his regime. So yeah, Flood failed here, but as others have said, lots of coaches don’t work out. I simply group him in that bucket. He bled Scarlet - loved the Knights and our traditions. For the most part - we won the games we were supposed to win while he was here (except the Kent State clunker) and we did have a decent 8 win debut year in the BIG.

I don’t see that as comparable at all with what Ash did to us. When he came in we were only one year away from an 8-5 season - and even the following year with everything going on - we could’ve beat Maryland the last game of the year, lost at the buzzer to Wash state and Michigan State. Things were bad - but it wasn’t like he inherited the 1 win team he left behind that was so dreadful where it was appropriate to come in and say let’s strip this program of all its history - that’s how bad it is. Thats basically what he came in and did. Then - we got worse on the field too. And not just a little worse… I laugh at folks who point to us being ok in 2017. Purdue laid an egg so we won one game against a halfway decent team. We also lost to a terrible Eastern Michigan team. The blow out losses to Buffalo and Kansas took us to embarrassing depth the program hadn’t seen since before Schiano. Ash took “bad” to another level. Then again, it took that kind of bad to get Schiano back so maybe it was a good thing.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

That turned off a LOT of people. Add in his attitude toward Rutgers Football alumni and his completely ignoring the HS coaches in NJ.

Yeah - all of this set him apart in my opinion as worst coach ever in RU history. To do all that and then also bring us down to 1-2 win season level bad from where we were - seals the title for me.

It bothers me when folks shift even a small amount of blame for how bad we became on prior recruiting. Flood wasn’t going to work out and he wasn’t a good recruiter - but he worked with what he had and even some walk ons like Paul James became servicable players while he was here so no, I’m not buying that. Ash had no idea how to develop players. It takes a special kind of “bad” to take a mediocre 4 win team that also had 3 close losses - and make that program so bad that there are only a handful of FBS programs in the country it could be competitive with. Ash would’ve probably lost to Liberty too if we hadn’t pulled the plug. He really was THAT bad.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I’m not particularly fond of the bundling of the Flood and Ash regimes together. Flood’s tenure didn’t work out - he clearly was not ready to step into Schiano’s role and didn’t know how to manage a team - hence all the off the court stuff that ultimately ended his regime. So yeah, Flood failed here, but as others have said, lots of coaches don’t work out. I simply group him in that bucket. He bled Scarlet - loved the Knights and our traditions. For the most part - we won the games we were supposed to win while he was here (except the Kent State clunker) and we did have a decent 8 win debut year in the BIG.

I don’t see that as comparable at all with what Ash did to us. When he came in we were only one year away from an 8-5 season - and even the following year with everything going on - we could’ve beat Maryland the last game of the year, lost at the buzzer to Wash state and Michigan State. Things were bad - but it wasn’t like he inherited the 1 win team he left behind that was so dreadful where it was appropriate to come in and say let’s strip this program of all its history - that’s how bad it is. Thats basically what he came in and did. Then - we got worse on the field too. And not just a little worse… I laugh at folks who point to us being ok in 2017. Purdue laid an egg so we won one game against a halfway decent team. We also lost to a terrible Eastern Michigan team. The blow out losses to Buffalo and Kansas took us to embarrassing depth the program hadn’t seen since before Schiano. Ash took “bad” to another level. Then again, it took that kind of bad to get Schiano back so maybe it was a good thing.

I can only offer you how I see it.

Flood's first moves were to abandon Schiano's legacy.

Schiano was a disciplinarian - Flood would be a "players coach"
Schiano had tough preseason practices - Flood would ease up
Schiano would pull QBs and players who turned the ball over - Flood stuck with them
Schiano had open competition for spots - Flood made promises (this is assumed based on evidence)

While the early Flood years banked on players who were trained under Schiano.. by the end the program was in shambles and Flood was wearing costumes in Princeton to meet Rutgers profs about grades.

Maybe Flood has learned from his mistakes.. but maybe SEC schools like Bama and Texas liked Flood's.. er.. flexibility of character that led him to support his players so much that he'd disguise himself to meet with a professor.. not that that is needed in SEC lands.

Flood inherited Schiano's culture and Ash inherited Flood's. That is why I linked them.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I can only offer you how I see it.

Flood's first moves were to abandon Schiano's legacy.

Schiano was a disciplinarian - Flood would be a "players coach"
Schiano had tough preseason practices - Flood would ease up
Schiano would pull QBs and players who turned the ball over - Flood stuck with them
Schiano had open competition for spots - Flood made promises (this is assumed based on evidence)

While the early Flood years banked on players who were trained under Schiano.. by the end the program was in shambles and Flood was wearing costumes in Princeton to meet Rutgers profs about grades.

Maybe Flood has learned from his mistakes.. but maybe SEC schools like Bama and Texas liked Flood's.. er.. flexibility of character that led him to support his players so much that he'd disguise himself to meet with a professor.. not that that is needed in SEC lands.

Flood inherited Schiano's culture and Ash inherited Flood's. That is why I linked them.

some parts of the first section- how many fans were saying that Greg's way of doing things was often why we came out so flat in game 1's. And BTW- as the OL coach for years under Schiano- Flood was a prick to his players. The only difference between Greg and Kyle was that when Flood pulled you out of a play at practice- he actually gave you the reason and what he expected you to do to fix it. Greg would pull players, try to embarrass them and never tell them what they actually did wrong.

Not sure how open the comp for spots were under Schiano vs Flood...you are kind of just making that up...lol

HC's don't really do much of the "training" they leave it up to their coaches- Flood was a big part of player development prior to being HC...

Princeton- he didn't wear a disguise- he just didnt wear Rutgers gear. Oh- BTW- that was instructed and orchestrated by JH...And think about this- Flood got crucified for trying to get a professor to allow a player to improve his grades with extra credit work...That certainly doesnt happen in the SEC...and in many ways- it is also pretty honorable that he did so...But- he did F up by not listening to one of the best Academic Advisors you would ever meet- Scott Walker
Flood also pissed me off- in that he gave up his values just to try to keep his job. That is his biggest fault and then he became a lame duck just collecting a check.

Ash got much better than what he gave Greg 2.0

 

[Rutgers25]

How many “quality control” types from OSU did he bring in as actual position coaches? It was absurd and obvious he had no idea what he was doing. The 2016 team wasn’t as bad as the record, which was a total function of him just butchering the offense with Drew.

He’s a decent bend but not break defensive coach. I’ll give him that I guess.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

some parts of the first section- how many fans were saying that Greg's way of doing things was often why we came out so flat in game 1's. And BTW- as the OL coach for years under Schiano- Flood was a prick to his players. The only difference between Greg and Kyle was that when Flood pulled you out of a play at practice- he actually gave you the reason and what he expected you to do to fix it. Greg would pull players, try to embarrass them and never tell them what they actually did wrong.

Not sure how open the comp for spots were under Schiano vs Flood...you are kind of just making that up...lol

HC's don't really do much of the "training" they leave it up to their coaches- Flood was a big part of player development prior to being HC...

Princeton- he didn't wear a disguise- he just didnt wear Rutgers gear. Oh- BTW- that was instructed and orchestrated by JH...And think about this- Flood got crucified for trying to get a professor to allow a player to improve his grades with extra credit work...That certainly doesnt happen in the SEC...and in many ways- it is also pretty honorable that he did so...But- he did F up by not listening to one of the best Academic Advisors you would ever meet- Scott Walker
Flood also pissed me off- in that he gave up his values just to try to keep his job. That is his biggest fault and then he became a lame duck just collecting a check.

Ash got much better than what he gave Greg 2.0

1st defensive possessions.. yeah.. seems like.. given the quality of the defense over a season.. opponents' opening scripted plays seem way too successful.. both in GS1.0 and GS2.0.. don't get that. Related to that, I think, is that, at least in the past.. some teams seemed to be able to plan very well against Schiano's D style... punish his reliance on stunts and blitzes and against his conservative offenses. I think that has improved in GS 2.0. And add in GS bowl record kinda indicates bowl teams given a long time to prepare against Schiano teams did not fare as well as anticipated. Conundrum, that.

I have only seen a few Schiano practices.. so this story of him embarrassing players and not correcting their behaviors.. it runs counter to what I saw happen.. in televised games too... who was it, tres Moses muffed a key punt up at UCONN and Schiano pulled him aside and consoled him rather than embarrass him. But if you have first-hand knowledge I'll yield to that while saying GS player development, especially among DBs, also seems to run counter to that. Perhaps GS adjusts his response based on each player in question? Perhaps, for some, embarrassment was needed while others needed support?

Yes.. "costume" and "disguise" were purposeful exaggerations.. not first said by me on this board. But I never heard it was Julie Herman's idea.. that's interesting. What a great hire she was!

Could Ash have seem the same initial success Flood had here had he succeeded GS 1.0? No idea. But recruiting would have been easier.. even recruiting coaches.. hmmm.. uh.. maybe not.. not until the Big Ten thing was announced. But he would have had better players and Rutgers had a better name in 2012 than it did in 2016... than it did in 2020 when GS2.0 began.

So.. no.. I don't know who was better head coach.. Flood or Ash. But Flood seems to be the proven better position coach.. so, yeah, Flood's the better coach.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I can only offer you how I see it.

Flood's first moves were to abandon Schiano's legacy.

Schiano was a disciplinarian - Flood would be a "players coach"
Schiano had tough preseason practices - Flood would ease up
Schiano would pull QBs and players who turned the ball over - Flood stuck with them
Schiano had open competition for spots - Flood made promises (this is assumed based on evidence)

While the early Flood years banked on players who were trained under Schiano.. by the end the program was in shambles and Flood was wearing costumes in Princeton to meet Rutgers profs about grades.

Maybe Flood has learned from his mistakes.. but maybe SEC schools like Bama and Texas liked Flood's.. er.. flexibility of character that led him to support his players so much that he'd disguise himself to meet with a professor.. not that that is needed in SEC lands.

Flood inherited Schiano's culture and Ash inherited Flood's. That is why I linked them.

Flood did not spit on Schiano’s legacy. No matter how much you can’t stand the guy that’s just not true. For the most part, he retained the legacy traditions from the Schiano era. Schiano being a disciplinarian is a personality thing vs. Flood taking a more lax approach which came back to bite him. But no, that wasn’t a deliberate move to do things differently and crap on what Schiano did before him.

Everything else you said gets shut down with 2 words - Paul James. Actually 4 - Michael Burton. Add him too. Flood’s elevating these walk ons to starter impact players debunks everything you said. Flood did a lot wrong, but even Plum (who hates him) would likely admit what you said isn’t on the list. Flood played his best players. If not, how would walk ons have been elevated in this way?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Flood did not spit on Schiano’s legacy. No matter how much you can’t stand the guy that’s just not true. For the most part, he retained the legacy traditions from the Schiano era. Schiano being a disciplinarian is a personality thing vs. Flood taking a more lax approach which came back to bite him. But no, that wasn’t a deliberate move to do things differently and crap on what Schiano did before him.

Everything else you said gets shut down with 2 words - Paul James. Actually 4 - Michael Burton. Add him too. Flood’s elevating these walk ons to starter impact players debunks everything you said. Flood did a lot wrong, but even Plum (who hates him) would likely admit what you said isn’t on the list. Flood played his best players. If not, how would walk ons have been elevated in this way?

I am only thinking about Floods sticking with Nova forever, no matter what he did.. lying about open QB competitions. I chalked it up to sucking up to Don Bosco.. having made promises. It did eventually pay off.. but I thought the price was too high.

 

[Knight Shift]

1st defensive possessions.. yeah.. seems like.. given the quality of the defense over a season.. opponents' opening scripted plays seem way too successful.. both in GS1.0 and GS2.0.. don't get that. Related to that, I think, is that, at least in the past.. some teams seemed to be able to plan very well against Schiano's D style... punish his reliance on stunts and blitzes and against his conservative offenses. I think that has improved in GS 2.0. And add in GS bowl record kinda indicates bowl teams given a long time to prepare against Schiano teams did not fare as well as anticipated. Conundrum, that.

I have only seen a few Schiano practices.. so this story of him embarrassing players and not correcting their behaviors.. it runs counter to what I saw happen.. in televised games too... who was it, tres Moses muffed a key punt up at UCONN and Schiano pulled him aside and consoled him rather than embarrass him. But if you have first-hand knowledge I'll yield to that while saying GS player development, especially among DBs, also seems to run counter to that. Perhaps GS adjusts his response based on each player in question? Perhaps, for some, embarrassment was needed while others needed support?

Yes.. "costume" and "disguise" were purposeful exaggerations.. not first said by me on this board. But I never heard it was Julie Herman's idea.. that's interesting. What a great hire she was!

Could Ash have seem the same initial success Flood had here had he succeeded GS 1.0? No idea. But recruiting would have been easier.. even recruiting coaches.. hmmm.. uh.. maybe not.. not until the Big Ten thing was announced. But he would have had better players and Rutgers had a better name in 2012 than it did in 2016... than it did in 2020 when GS2.0 began.

So.. no.. I don't know who was better head coach.. Flood or Ash. But Flood seems to be the proven better position coach.. so, yeah, Flood's the better coach.

Maybe it was covered, but Flood was hamstrung by:
1. Low pay- Greg was making 2.5 or 3.2M when he left. Flood started at $700K
2. Low budget for coordinators and assistants. Very low budget.
3. He got nothing in new resources or upgrades. Ash got lots- lockerroom, practice fields, etc.
4. Regarding 2, when he got a decent OC in Friedgen, he did well. But the end was near after Fridge left.
5. He had a 3 ring circus of an athletic department which hampered his already weaker than Greg recruiting chops. The Mike Rice fiasco, Pernetti firing, and multiple miscues by Julie, who was trying to sell Flood out from day 1.
6. Many said Flood was not a hard worker. That's ultimately on him, but on the other hand, I don't blame the guy for mailing it in, as his bosses did absolutely nothing to help him.

 

[DJ Spanky]

5. He had a 3 ring circus of an athletic department which hampered his already weaker than Greg recruiting chops. The Mike Rice fiasco, Pernetti firing, and multiple miscues by Julie, who was trying to sell Flood out from day 1.
6. Many said Flood was not a hard worker. That's ultimately on him, but on the other hand, I don't blame the guy for mailing it in, as his bosses did absolutely nothing to help him.

I still think things might have been different if Pernetti didn't get fired.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

That was very early in the Ash hire and in that thread I responded to someone saying "Plum is bum" with "Plum is so dumb".

The lesson being.. blanket support and blind faith and hoping we made a good hire is not the same thing as suspecting or even KNOWING we made a good hire. On the surface, "Big Ten DC for Ohio State under Urban Meyer" sounds great. And he "looked" the part. But any real look into him should have revealed that Meyer was looking to get rid of him (and not Fickell, the "co-DC") and that Wisconsin legend Alvarez recommended him as a favor... Wisconsin could have hired him any number of times after his first stint there.

Too bad the people making this decision did not experience the hiring of Terry Shea with the recommendation of a Hall of Fame NFL legendary Niners' coach. Had the powers that be experienced that you'd think they could tell a real recommendation from a fake one.

Come to think of that.. anyone remember how Schiano 1.0 was advised AGAINST taking the Rutgers job by SAINT JOE.. Joe Paterno? Tell me JoePA wasn't just trying to keep this hungry young coach out of his recruiting backyard. That was some self-serving BS.

Good Assessment GOR. Urban hoodwinked the administration with the Ash recommendation. Don't take anything away from Plum, he called it very early, so early that I and most on the board gave him a considerable amount of heat that he was over reacting but he was resolute in his prediction and was proven to be right in the end! BTW that is what makes that such a legendary thread is Plum would not back down! That and the fact that plum reminds us all every three to six months that he was the author of that thread! LOL!

 

[Plum Street]

Both flood and ash’s tenures went the way I thought they would.

Flood inherited a decent house . But he just couldn’t maintain it and it was the eyesore of the block. Ash moved in and there goes the neighborhood

 

[angmo]

Not sure how this is anything good in regard to Ash- dude went from a B1G HC to a scout...

He keeps getting Peter Principled lower. Still hasn't found his proper skill level. High school bus driver maybe.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Good Assessment GOR. Urban hoodwinked the administration with the Ash recommendation. Don't take anything away from Plum, he called it very early, so early that I and most on the board gave him a considerable amount of heat that he was over reacting but he was resolute in his prediction and was proven to be right in the end! BTW that is what makes that such a legendary thread is Plum would not back down! That and the fact that plum reminds us all every three to six months that he was the author of that thread! LOL!

the thread after the washington game was epic too. who can forget, 'halftime adjustments are overrated'

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I am only thinking about Floods sticking with Nova forever, no matter what he did.. lying about open QB competitions. I chalked it up to sucking up to Don Bosco.. having made promises. It did eventually pay off.. but I thought the price was too high.

Or perhaps Nova was actually the best we had. Did that possibility not occur to you? Transfers had to sit out a year then. There was no plug and play year to year solution. Flood was a crummy recruiter. Certainly he failed to keep up Greg’s momentum there. But again - what you said about him generally not playing guys based on performance is flat out not universally true.
Again - Paul James. Michael Burton - from walk on to NBA.. Flood had more walk ons defy the odds than most. He didn’t make decisions based on star rankings or bias. It’s just not a true statement.

 

[yesrutgers01]

1st defensive possessions.. yeah.. seems like.. given the quality of the defense over a season.. opponents' opening scripted plays seem way too successful.. both in GS1.0 and GS2.0.. don't get that. Related to that, I think, is that, at least in the past.. some teams seemed to be able to plan very well against Schiano's D style... punish his reliance on stunts and blitzes and against his conservative offenses. I think that has improved in GS 2.0. And add in GS bowl record kinda indicates bowl teams given a long time to prepare against Schiano teams did not fare as well as anticipated. Conundrum, that.

I have only seen a few Schiano practices.. so this story of him embarrassing players and not correcting their behaviors.. it runs counter to what I saw happen.. in televised games too... who was it, tres Moses muffed a key punt up at UCONN and Schiano pulled him aside and consoled him rather than embarrass him. But if you have first-hand knowledge I'll yield to that while saying GS player development, especially among DBs, also seems to run counter to that. Perhaps GS adjusts his response based on each player in question? Perhaps, for some, embarrassment was needed while others needed support?

Yes.. "costume" and "disguise" were purposeful exaggerations.. not first said by me on this board. But I never heard it was Julie Herman's idea.. that's interesting. What a great hire she was!

Could Ash have seem the same initial success Flood had here had he succeeded GS 1.0? No idea. But recruiting would have been easier.. even recruiting coaches.. hmmm.. uh.. maybe not.. not until the Big Ten thing was announced. But he would have had better players and Rutgers had a better name in 2012 than it did in 2016... than it did in 2020 when GS2.0 began.

So.. no.. I don't know who was better head coach.. Flood or Ash. But Flood seems to be the proven better position coach.. so, yeah, Flood's the better coach.

thank you for a very fair response...Paragraph two - GS embarrassing players and no constructive criticism while doing it- I am not going to speak for the defense but can 100% tell you that this was the case all too often on offense. Often enough that a few big ole 300lbers started to get up into his face when he would do it...

 

[Plum Street]

thank you for a very fair response...Paragraph two - GS embarrassing players and no constructive criticism while doing it- I am not going to speak for the defense but can 100% tell you that this was the case all too often on offense. Often enough that a few big ole 300lbers started to get up into his face when he would do it...

Do you think he still does this ? Or has he changed with the times ?

I would say this - some of us 1.0 lineman were good and some went on to play in the NFL . I am pretty sure Anthony Davis hated , but respected , schiano .

 

[yesrutgers01]

Do you think he still does this ? Or has he changed with the times ?

I would say this - some of us 1.0 lineman were good and some went on to play in the NFL . I am pretty sure Anthony Davis hated , but respected , schiano .

I think 2.0 is a different person…or at least he told me so…and regretted some things he had done. He earned my respect with that.
The OL 1.0 that played in the NFL hated and spired him…not much respect at all. At least one TE really just despised the man..,

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Both flood and ash’s tenures went the way I thought they would.

Flood inherited a decent house . But he just couldn’t maintain it and it was the eyesore of the block. Ash moved in and there goes the neighborhood

That wasn’t the question. I know you think Flood was a pile of garbage. For all your reasons why (no need to restate them) please confirm that Flood not playing his best performers and granting playing time based on the star rankings of his players is not on that list of reasons? I’m guessing it’s probably not, because, you know, as much as you didn’t care for the guy you know this is just not a true statement. Flood played walk ons - and developing guys like Michael Burton into an NFL player is probably the highlight of Flood’s tenure. He sucked at recruiting but he didn’t delegate playing time based on high school or other ranking. It’s simply not true. He consistently played whoever he thought gave him the best chance to win. That goes for Nova too. We didn’t have anyone better, in part because he did not recruit well when he was at Rutgers.

That’s why I called you out because it’s a given you can’t stand the guy, but as I said, I think your generally pretty fair.

 

[RedTeam1994]

I’m not particularly fond of the bundling of the Flood and Ash regimes together. Flood’s tenure didn’t work out - he clearly was not ready to step into Schiano’s role and didn’t know how to manage a team - hence all the off the court stuff that ultimately ended his regime. So yeah, Flood failed here, but as others have said, lots of coaches don’t work out. I simply group him in that bucket. He bled Scarlet - loved the Knights and our traditions. For the most part - we won the games we were supposed to win while he was here (except the Kent State clunker) and we did have a decent 8 win debut year in the BIG.

I don’t see that as comparable at all with what Ash did to us. When he came in we were only one year away from an 8-5 season - and even the following year with everything going on - we could’ve beat Maryland the last game of the year, lost at the buzzer to Wash state and Michigan State. Things were bad - but it wasn’t like he inherited the 1 win team he left behind that was so dreadful where it was appropriate to come in and say let’s strip this program of all its history - that’s how bad it is. Thats basically what he came in and did. Then - we got worse on the field too. And not just a little worse… I laugh at folks who point to us being ok in 2017. Purdue laid an egg so we won one game against a halfway decent team. We also lost to a terrible Eastern Michigan team. The blow out losses to Buffalo and Kansas took us to embarrassing depth the program hadn’t seen since before Schiano. Ash took “bad” to another level. Then again, it took that kind of bad to get Schiano back so maybe it was a good thing.

Agree flood and ash aren’t comparable

Flood wasn’t great

But Ash: unprecedented failure and incompetence. And an arrogant douchbag as well. How can someone be sooooo unbelievably bad yet sooo friggin arrogant at the same time. Unbelievable. Still boils my blood.

I have no ill feeling towards flood

But ash? Seriously despise the man.

And their post RU careers show you can’t compare the men…

Flood = certainly was not HC material at the time (and still might not be?)…. But he has been undeniably successful, his trajectory upwards.

But Ash? = 😂😂😂😂 from Big10 HC to a scout. F$cking loser

 

[Plum Street]

That wasn’t the question. I know you think Flood was a pile of garbage. For all your reasons why (no need to restate them) please confirm that Flood not playing his best performers and granting playing time based on the star rankings of his players is not on that list of reasons? I’m guessing it’s probably not, because, you know, as much as you didn’t care for the guy you know this is just not a true statement. Flood played walk ons - and developing guys like Michael Burton into an NFL player is probably the highlight of Flood’s tenure. He sucked at recruiting but he didn’t delegate playing time based on high school or other ranking. It’s simply not true. He consistently played whoever he thought gave him the best chance to win. That goes for Nova too. We didn’t have anyone better, in part because he did not recruit well when he was at Rutgers.

That’s why I called you out because it’s a given you can’t stand the guy, but as I said, I think your generally pretty fair.

I don’t understand your question or the comparison to flood and ash . Two coaches that stunk here and I told everyone they would stink here.

Do I think flood played his best players and did a good job developing some players ? Yes
I also think he should have benched nova sooner at points in 2012 and 2013.

Thankfully we are on the road to respectability now and the clown shows of grunniger/pernetti/herman and flood/ash are distant memories

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t understand your question or the comparison to flood and ash . Two coaches that stunk here and I told everyone they would stink here.

Do I think flood played his best players and did a good job developing some players ? Yes
I also think he should have benched nova sooner at points in 2012 and 2013.

Thankfully we are on the road to respectability now and the clown shows of grunniger/pernetti/herman and flood/ash are distant memories

The question came from a post (not yours) claiming that Flood’s regime stood out as a failure because Flood trashed Schiano’s legacies and traditions (the example given was not being a disciplinarian) and didn’t play kids based on merit - that’s a cliff note summary of the post.

Flood made a lot of mistakes - this just happened to be an awful take in terms of highlighting them. I pinged you to weigh in because your the king of anti-Flood. My point was that of all the facets of the Flood era - that guy managed to point out 2 of the few things Flood didn’t mess up.

You could literally name every single coach and say there are times they played the starting QB too long - or someone else should’ve gotten another shot. Nothing Flood did with Nova stood out more than Greg putting Gavin back in after Evan took us down the field for a TD. It’s not like we had a good back up for Nova. And regardless- anything you could point to certainly had nothing to do with favoring Nova or anyone simply because he went to Bosco, had 4 stars or any other reason other than Flood thought it was best for the teams chance to go 1-0 as he would’ve said. I know you know all this which is why I called you on it. That’s all.

 

[Plum Street]

The question came from a post (not yours) claiming that Flood’s regime stood out as a failure because Flood trashed Schiano’s legacies and traditions (the example given was not being a disciplinarian) and didn’t play kids based on merit - that’s a cliff note summary of the post.

Flood made a lot of mistakes - this just happened to be an awful take in terms of highlighting them. I pinged you to weigh in because your the king of anti-Flood. My point was that of all the facets of the Flood era - that guy managed to point out 2 of the few things Flood didn’t mess up.

You could literally name every single coach and say there are times they played the starting QB too long - or someone else should’ve gotten another shot. Nothing Flood did with Nova stood out more than Greg putting Gavin back in after Evan took us down the field for a TD. It’s not like we had a good back up for Nova. And regardless- anything you could point to certainly had nothing to do with favoring Nova or anyone simply because he went to Bosco, had 4 stars or any other reason other than Flood thought it was best for the teams chance to go 1-0 as he would’ve said. I know you know all this which is why I called you on it. That’s all.

We did have Dodd, who won a bowl game for us in 2011. I would say he’s about as serviceable as a backup as you could hope for.
There were times nova should have been pulled and Dodd put in. That Virginia tech game was a travesty

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

We did have Dodd, who won a bowl game for us in 2011. I would say he’s about as serviceable as a backup as you could hope for.
There were times nova should have been pulled and Dodd put in. That Virginia tech game was a travesty

First of all - QB is one position out of many. It’s clearly an indesputably false statement that Coach Flood made playing decisions based on anything other than his own view (whether you agree or not) of who deserved it. He did not bias based on HS of origin or star rating evidenced in many walk ons becoming starters.

That said - regarding Nova - I was referring to 2014 specifically (PSU game comes to mind) where we clearly didn’t have a viable sub to put in as Dodd actually DID replace Nova in the second half of 2013. Your saying it’s a travesty that we didn’t make a change in 2012 - but that sure seems like Monday night quarterbacking to me. The decision certainly wasn’t because of where Nova went to HS. Look - before the Pitt game - we were 9-1 and Nova hadn’t throw worse than a 54.3% completion rating once the whole season. Guess how many times in his career our 2023 QB completed that high a percentage of passes in his whole career - 5 and that includes Wagner. We stuck with Gavin anyway even after Evan led us down the field against Wisconsin. I’m not saying that was the wrong decision. Rather - a lot goes into making a QB change and one or two bad games after a solid showing on a whole for 10 games isn’t going to get you booted for a bowl game by most coaches. Again - you can disagree and call it a travesty but it had nothing to do with Nova being a Bosco graduate.

 

[ashokan]

Do you think he still does this ? Or has he changed with the times ?

I would say this - some of us 1.0 lineman were good and some went on to play in the NFL . I am pretty sure Anthony Davis hated , but respected , schiano .

One of the angriest coaches I ever saw on a sideline was in a game (SU maybe?) where GS was super-pissed at AD. He had his veins and eyeballs popping out of his red face - he was angrier looking than Kelly at ND and that's saying something. Cameras were cutting to AD sitting on bench while GS melted down.