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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2011117Numbers and others interested in proof of Leronlimab ‘s safe and very effective use from the New England Journal of Medicine .https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2011117 Check out the appendix and how all the levels were drastically changed after 3 days after injection.
Also today , an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, again anecdotal but interesting since one was an Ironman participant and another a doctor, that recovered almost in 2 days after Leronlimab injection and are fully recovered now. https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/heal...for-weeks-even-months/0rzLkWZWeXh0D2y3ezEqcN/
 
Prince Phillip the First of Trenton is now going to allow visiting to nursing homes.What happened to "We don't want to kill grandma" as a reason for keeping the gyms closed?George Carlin would tell this Red Bank Bolshevik to blow it out his ass.14 weeks of flattening the curve indeed.
 
It would also be in their geopolitical interest to kick the US while it's down.

Quite honestly, I think China would have to make their vaccine formula "open source" for it to be widely accepted by western populations. It would likely have to be produced by US manufacturers either open source or under license and undergo FDA/CDC testing.

China intends to share any successful vaccine with the world - they're clearly trying to usurp the US's long-time position as world leader on efforts like this and, frankly, are doing better at it than we are, as the US has withdrawn from the world stage with regard to vaccines, cooperation on virus research in China and funding the WHO. We're starting to look like a petulant child internationally, instead of the confident, altruistic leader we've been for generations.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/07/c_139121625.htm

On the flip side, China has a very checkered history with pharmaceutical products, including vaccines, although the vaccine problems have mostly been internal to China, since much of the rest of the world only trusts them to do earlier chemistries/processing and not as much on final drug products and especially vaccines. Below is an excerpt on the quality/business issues a couple of the Chinese vaccine manufacturers had. So, yeah, I'd want to any vaccine they produce that might be marketed here to have completely transparent safety/efficacy data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/business/coronavirus-china-vaccine.html

The Wuhan institute was involved in a 2018 scandal in which defective vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough and other conditions were injected into hundreds of thousands of babies. China imposed a $1.3 billion fine on another virus maker involved, Changchun Changsheng. The scandal led to the firing of dozens of officials and pledges of a swift industry cleanup.

Sinovac Biotech had also been involved in a bribery scandal, according to court documents. From 2002 to 2014, a court in Beijing said, the general manager of Sinovac Biotech gave China’s deputy director in charge of drug evaluations nearly $50,000 to help the firm with drug approvals. Sinovac was not charged.
 
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2011117Numbers and others interested in proof of Leronlimab ‘s safe and very effective use from the New England Journal of Medicine .https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2011117 Check out the appendix and how all the levels were drastically changed after 3 days after injection.
Also today , an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, again anecdotal but interesting since one was an Ironman participant and another a doctor, that recovered almost in 2 days after Leronlimab injection and are fully recovered now. https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/heal...for-weeks-even-months/0rzLkWZWeXh0D2y3ezEqcN/

The NEJM article offers no "proof" that leronlimab is safe and effective. Levels went down, but the next sentence says, "However, only the 1 patient who had the lowest interleukin-6 level (at 83 pg per milliliter) remained in stable condition without intubation." Also, 6 patients on a drug is not a "clinical study." And the AJC article has two anecdotes. That's very nice - again, zero proof the drug is safe and effective. You really need to read these articles more closely before making incorrect claims.
 
Please....you would not want to be inside that small apartment when the Chicom police or army come and lock it down from the outside in a communist dictatorship-style real quarantine.
Agreed, which is why I've always advocated the South Korea/Taiwan approach of aggressive early testing, tracing and isolations, augmented by masks and social distancing, which was able to achieve 1/100th the case/death rate we have without draconian lockdowns. This was in our own pandemic playbook, but we failed to follow it. China had to do draconian lockdowns because they didn't know what was coming; other countries, including the US did - some just planned/responded much better.
 
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The NEJM article offers no "proof" that leronlimab is safe and effective. Levels went down, but the next sentence says, "However, only the 1 patient who had the lowest interleukin-6 level (at 83 pg per milliliter) remained in stable condition without intubation." Also, 6 patients on a drug is not a "clinical study." And the AJC article has two anecdotes. That's very nice - again, zero proof the drug is safe and effective. You really need to read these articles more closely before making incorrect claims.
It has proven totally safe and effective in 800 patients during its Phase 1,2, and 3 trials for AIDS with no adverse side effects. I would hope you are not so flippant to dismiss 800 as compared to 5 patients. Let’s Go Ru, a physician , cited that figure in response to my earlier post. So hopefully you listen to him because you obviously do not believe what I have posted. It really was stupid of you to post that you thought I thought that 5 patients were a trial when the purpose was to show you it came from the NEJM not some bullshit post. In 2 weeks time we will know the results. I am hopeful that Leronlimab shows in the trials everything it has shown in the 180 EIND patients, so that we can have football, basketball and all the other Rutgers sports we love. Control the tone of your posting to me because you are getting annoying despite your posting important information
 
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Great post! I'd like to share this elsewhere if you don't mind (would like to give you credit for it, but not sure how to do that other than to link to this post - let me know, thanks). We've both been wondering (as have many others) why the US isn't at least pursuing one "old school" weakened/deactivated virus approach for a vaccine.

While I believe the Chinese lied about the outbreak early on, their science has been pretty good on viral transmission, impacts and treatments, to date, and assuming they clearly documented the safety of any vaccine they developed, I'd take it...if they share it. It's in their best interests to make a very safe/effective vaccine (and it would certainly "show up" the US if they can do so).

You are welcome to share - glad it was useful and I am confident it is accurate based on available information.
 
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It has proven totally safe and effective in 800 patients during its Phase 1,2, and 3 trials for AIDS with no adverse side effects. I would hope you are not so flippant to dismiss 800 as compared to 5 patients. Let’s Go Ru, a physician , cited that figure in response to my earlier post. So hopefully you listen to him because you obviously do not believe what I have posted. It really was stupid of you to post that you thought I thought that 5 patients were a trial when the purpose was to show you it came from the NEJM not some bullshit post. In 2 weeks time we will know the results. I am hopeful that Leronlimab shows in the trials everything it has shown in the 180 EIND patients, so that we can have football, basketball and all the other Rutgers sports we love. Control the tone of your posting to me because you are getting annoying despite your posting important information
You made a post implying strongly that a 6-person "study" was proof of leronlimab's safety and efficacy. That's wrong and you know it. That's all one can take from your post. If you don't want people to think that's what you meant, then add more details to your post.

If you want to get into a debate on the safety of some other study, then post about that other study. Also, while the 800-person study in HIV patients might say that it's safe in HIV patients, that study does not necessarily translate to it being safe in COVID patients (although it makes it more likely). We all want leronlimab to succeed, but we need to see the data first. I'll be very surprised if it has more than modest efficacy, but it would be a very pleasant surprise if I were wrong.
 
Unfortuneately I don't think this lasts much longer, deaths have always lagged cases by a couple weeks, and the cases are now taking off.

I think Gottlieb has a point about treatments lowering fatality rates, and they are likely doing a better job of fortifying LTC's, but the rate of case increase that we are seeing is going to lead to a jump in fatalities, I don't see anyway around it.

Texas is already seeing their fatalities increase.
 
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You made a post implying strongly that a 6-person "study" was proof of leronlimab's safety and efficacy. That's wrong and you know it. That's all one can take from your post. If you don't want people to think that's what you meant, then add more details to your post.

If you want to get into a debate on the safety of some other study, then post about that other study. Also, while the 800-person study in HIV patients might say that it's safe in HIV patients, that study does not necessarily translate to it being safe in COVID patients (although it makes it more likely). We all want leronlimab to succeed, but we need to see the data first. I'll be very surprised if it has more than modest efficacy, but it would be a very pleasant surprise if I were wrong.
You will be wrong and when you are, and gleaming from the tone of your posts, only then when the trials smack you in the face , will your flippant tone change. This is a Rantes disease as identified by Dr. Patterson and his paper is being peer reviewed as we speak .His company, Incelldx, just filed for a patent on the diagnostic assay that can measure all levels of Ig6, T4, T6, T8 and numerous other cell levels, so not only that Leronlimab will be given, but when and at what dose. I get your skepticism because it is not FDA approved yet, but the only Covid use has been EIND for 180 patients with tremendous results so far. I get you , you do not want to hear about it until the trials are done and until
The FDA approves it, but other people come to this site to learn of promising drugs that can therapeutically treat Covid , so we can get back to some sort of normalcy and watch our teams again . Guarantee it will be the safest drug out there being tested for treatment of Covid now.
 

Yep, the other possible reason for the decrease in deaths is that a higher percentage of the most vulnerable contracted the virus in the first wave. That and possibly convalescent plasma is having an impact (it has been used on 20,000 patients since mid-April and the Mayo clinic folk keep saying it's "promising."
 
You will be wrong and when you are, and gleaming from the tone of your posts, only then when the trials smack you in the face , will your flippant tone change. This is a Rantes disease as identified by Dr. Patterson and his paper is being peer reviewed as we speak .His company, Incelldx, just filed for a patent on the diagnostic assay that can measure all levels of Ig6, T4, T6, T8 and numerous other cell levels, so not only that Leronlimab will be given, but when and at what dose. I get your skepticism because it is not FDA approved yet, but the only Covid use has been EIND for 180 patients with tremendous results so far. I get you , you do not want to hear about it until the trials are done and until
The FDA approves it, but other people come to this site to learn of promising drugs that can therapeutically treat Covid , so we can get back to some sort of normalcy and watch our teams again . Guarantee it will be the safest drug out there being tested for treatment of Covid now.

Sorry, but you simply need more than "the doctors at Cytodyn/Incelldx tell me it's great" to convince me and most other folks that this is going to be the gamechanger you say it will be. Show us some data beyond the 11 patient study preprint from the EIND - have you actually seen any data from the larger set of 180 patients (you shouldn't have, really) or is there something published we haven't seen? If you end up being right, that'll be great, but until then do you expect people to simply take your word for it?
 
I'm still skeptical of this given NY is still decreasing.

I mean, it makes sense, but why would some states with protests see massive spikes, while others decline?
Because the positivity rate in NYC was at 1% during the protests and not at 20% like it was 6 weeks ago. If the protests happened 6 weeks ago, you would most likely seen a huge spike. NY tested 79,000 yesterday, which is absolutely amazing and only 796 positives or 1%. Better yet , the rate has been about the same for the last 10-14 days so protesters , because they were outdoors, and most but not all wore masks, have very few spreaders among them. On the other hand, the other 140 cities around the country that had protests, likely had higher positivity rates, but being outside and wearing masks reduces the transmission in those cities as well.
 
Because the positivity rate in NYC was at 1% during the protests and not at 20% like it was 6 weeks ago. If the protests happened 6 weeks ago, you would most likely seen a huge spike. NY tested 79,000 yesterday, which is absolutely amazing and only 796 positives or 1%. Better yet , the rate has been about the same for the last 10-14 days so protesters , because they were outdoors, and most but not all wore masks, have very few spreaders among them. On the other hand, the other 140 cities around the country that had protests, likely had higher positivity rates, but being outside and wearing masks reduces the transmission in those cities as well.
Agree 100% with this - good post. Very low infection rates, currently + most wearing masks + far less "infectable targets" (as NYC has ~20% with antibodies vs. <5% in most or the rest of the US) = little to no spike in NYC.
 
China intends to share any successful vaccine with the world - they're clearly trying to usurp the US's long-time position as world leader on efforts like this and, frankly, are doing better at it than we are, as the US has withdrawn from the world stage with regard to vaccines, cooperation on virus research in China and funding the WHO. We're starting to look like a petulant child internationally, instead of the confident, altruistic leader we've been for generations.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/07/c_139121625.htm

On the flip side, China has a very checkered history with pharmaceutical products, including vaccines, although the vaccine problems have mostly been internal to China, since much of the rest of the world only trusts them to do earlier chemistries/processing and not as much on final drug products and especially vaccines. Below is an excerpt on the quality/business issues a couple of the Chinese vaccine manufacturers had. So, yeah, I'd want to any vaccine they produce that might be marketed here to have completely transparent safety/efficacy data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/business/coronavirus-china-vaccine.html

The Wuhan institute was involved in a 2018 scandal in which defective vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough and other conditions were injected into hundreds of thousands of babies. China imposed a $1.3 billion fine on another virus maker involved, Changchun Changsheng. The scandal led to the firing of dozens of officials and pledges of a swift industry cleanup.

Sinovac Biotech had also been involved in a bribery scandal, according to court documents. From 2002 to 2014, a court in Beijing said, the general manager of Sinovac Biotech gave China’s deputy director in charge of drug evaluations nearly $50,000 to help the firm with drug approvals. Sinovac was not charged.
They cant they are too busy trying to destroy our economy and our superpower staus while they try to expand their boundaries on multiple directions while everyone is busy screwing around with covid
 
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Love affair? You clearly haven't read any of my posts on China. I've been very harsh on their behavior up through the Hubei lockdowns with regard to hiding the outbreak and providing clearly false (and very low) estimates on cases/deaths. However, their economy has been hammered by this outbreak, too, even if a few select industries might be doing ok. To think that China would "want" this pandemic is ludicrous. Having said that, though, they've clearly handled it way better than the US has wjhich is embarrassing, especially when they had very little warning, unlike us.
Know much about China?
 
Love affair? You clearly haven't read any of my posts on China. I've been very harsh on their behavior up through the Hubei lockdowns with regard to hiding the outbreak and providing clearly false (and very low) estimates on cases/deaths. However, their economy has been hammered by this outbreak, too, even if a few select industries might be doing ok. To think that China would "want" this pandemic is ludicrous. Having said that, though, they've clearly handled it way better than the US has wjhich is embarrassing, especially when they had very little warning, unlike us.

You went full retard.
 
Sorry, but you simply need more than "the doctors at Cytodyn/Incelldx tell me it's great" to convince me and most other folks that this is going to be the gamechanger you say it will be. Show us some data beyond the 11 patient study preprint from the EIND - have you actually seen any data from the larger set of 180 patients (you shouldn't have, really) or is there something published we haven't seen? If you end up being right, that'll be great, but until then do you expect people to simply take your word for it?
The results of the 180 EIND patients that have been given Leronlimab are known and been reported at UCLA, in Georgia, in North Carolina, in New York. You keep on saying 11 patients. It is 180, which isn’t enough , and I am sure means nothing to you , but when you hear testimonials from the treating doctors and the ill patients that recovered from all over the country, from Mexico, from the UK , it is no longer isolated, but still anecdotal, but with tremendously positive results. The science makes sense. There is no drug that stops the cytokines storm, reduces the viral load, and brings the immune system into homeostatis, all 3 things. Plus it is safe in all 180 patients with no adverse side effects. Those are the facts. Ignore if you insist.
 
Sobering graphic below, showing how much worse the US is now doing vs. our European counterparts with regard to case rates, since the first big wave. This is from a very good WaPo article. What's really so sad is how we're now being looked at with essentially pity by so many others, especially given that US science was critical to informing these other countries on how to deal with the pandemic.

Commentators and experts in Europe, where cases have continued to decline, voiced concerns over the state of the U.S. response. A headline on the website of Germany’s public broadcaster read: “Has the U.S. given up its fight against coronavirus?” Switzerland’s conservative Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper concluded, “U.S. increasingly accepts rising covid-19 numbers.”

Whereas the U.S. response to the crisis has at times appeared disconnected from American scientists’ publicly available findings, U.S. researchers’ conclusions informed the actions of foreign governments. “A large portion of [Germany’s] measures that proved effective was based on studies by leading U.S. research institutes,” said Karl Lauterbach, a Harvard-educated epidemiologist who is a member of the German parliament for the Social Democrats, who are part of the coalition government. Lauterbach advised the German parliament and the government during the pandemic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...bay-experts-watch-us-case-numbers-with-alarm/

HW9rS0G.png
 
The results of the 180 EIND patients that have been given Leronlimab are known and been reported at UCLA, in Georgia, in North Carolina, in New York. You keep on saying 11 patients. It is 180, which isn’t enough , and I am sure means nothing to you , but when you hear testimonials from the treating doctors and the ill patients that recovered from all over the country, from Mexico, from the UK , it is no longer isolated, but still anecdotal, but with tremendously positive results. The science makes sense. There is no drug that stops the cytokines storm, reduces the viral load, and brings the immune system into homeostatis, all 3 things. Plus it is safe in all 180 patients with no adverse side effects. Those are the facts. Ignore if you insist.
Are you really this thick? If it's been "reported" share the data on these 180 patients. Is that too much to ask? I'm not ignoring anything - I just haven't seen anything.
 
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You went full retard.
I'm clearly talking about the period after they acknowledged (very late) the outbreak. They went to a much harsher lockdown than we did, which I'm sure would not have gone over well here, but it was certainly effective and they've kept cases/deaths to a minimum since. However, if we had learned from them and South Korea/Taiwan and had the testing/tracing/isolating and mask-wearing in place we could have had (which was in our own damn pandemic playbook), we might not have even needed our shutdowns (or they could've been a lot shorter).
 
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China intends to share any successful vaccine with the world - they're clearly trying to usurp the US's long-time position as world leader on efforts like this and, frankly, are doing better at it than we are, as the US has withdrawn from the world stage with regard to vaccines, cooperation on virus research in China and funding the WHO. We're starting to look like a petulant child internationally, instead of the confident, altruistic leader we've been for generations.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/07/c_139121625.htm

On the flip side, China has a very checkered history with pharmaceutical products, including vaccines, although the vaccine problems have mostly been internal to China, since much of the rest of the world only trusts them to do earlier chemistries/processing and not as much on final drug products and especially vaccines. Below is an excerpt on the quality/business issues a couple of the Chinese vaccine manufacturers had. So, yeah, I'd want to any vaccine they produce that might be marketed here to have completely transparent safety/efficacy data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/business/coronavirus-china-vaccine.html

The Wuhan institute was involved in a 2018 scandal in which defective vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough and other conditions were injected into hundreds of thousands of babies. China imposed a $1.3 billion fine on another virus maker involved, Changchun Changsheng. The scandal led to the firing of dozens of officials and pledges of a swift industry cleanup.

Sinovac Biotech had also been involved in a bribery scandal, according to court documents. From 2002 to 2014, a court in Beijing said, the general manager of Sinovac Biotech gave China’s deputy director in charge of drug evaluations nearly $50,000 to help the firm with drug approvals. Sinovac was not charged.
Take it to the CE board.. this reeks of politics.
 
Warning - very long post trying to summarize many things about COVID-19...

Seems like a lot of people are underplaying this, presumably because they simply don't fully understand the fundamental science of infectious disesases, the epidemiology of viral infections, and the risks involved in the face of high uncertainties on transmission rates and mortality rates - some similarities exist to deterministic numerical weather prediction models with there being a range of outcomes out in time that become more uncertain the further out in time one goes. However, this is not a "chaotic" system, like weather, so there are a much narrower set of outcomes possible. Here's my attempt to try to explain why this is not the flu and why the risks of inaction or poorly executed actions are far greater than for the flu or SARS/MERS.

The bottom line for everyone is that SARS-CoV2 has a significantly greater transmission rate than influenza (R-naught is 2-3 vs. about 1.3 for the flu, meaning without intervention, each infected person would be expected to infect 2-3 others for coronavirus and only 1.3 others for influenza) and has significantly greater mortality (and I'll get to this in a second) and hospitalization rates than influenza, such that if we treated it like the flu, i.e., did essentially nothing, we'd see many more deaths than the 30-60K we have each year in the US (and more hospitalizations). How effective we'll be in the US in making this less impactful than influenza is an open question.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/study-highlights-ease-spread-covid-19-viruses

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30567-5/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR0LaDqifJTW9mENQXL6olEkj7jkEBarsm_cYLlTXpj88rALqP9Vz5gBljo

Fortunately, we have epidemiologists and infectious disease scientists who actually know stuff, which is why every country in the world, including even the US, despite elements of our government leadership downplaying this, is taking moderate to very aggressive steps to contain the burgeoning outbreaks in order to greatly reduce transmission rates (since mortality rates are mostly constant, until and unless we get some medical treatment breakthroughs - and vaccines aren't "treatment" - they're only prevention and we won't have any until at least next winter), so that the actual outcomes aren't worse than the flu or even that close, if we do this right.

So, let's talk about mortality rates. Yes, the overall currently reported mortality rates of 2-5% are inflated, because the denominator of total infections is not well known in most countries, largely due to far from comprehensive testing. A much more likely eventual mortality rate is about 0.5-1.0%, based on the ~0.7% seen so far in South Korea, where they've tested 10X more people than anyone and close to 1000X more people (per capita) than the US. Even at 0.5% that's 2.5-5X the average overall influenza mortality rate of 0.1-0.2% (depending on severity that season) worldwide and at 1.0% that would be 5-10X the mortality rate of influenza. Those are the mutlipliers (or more we'd likely see if we did nothing at all). Also, the mortality rate on that floating coronavirus experiment, the Diamond Princess, showed an overall mortality rate of about 1% (close to the SK number and the number postulated in the link below), with all the deaths being in those over 80.

https://slate.com/technology/2020/0...wRWmsoZJ8PHkgyHu6WDNkDwVRsvZ-cdQZd-pV2OwP6PQ0

Now let's talk about age group mortality rates. The best data on that is still from China, given how large and long lasting their outbreak has been - of course these might be a bit high vs. "true" mortality rates, when compared to SK, assuming SK has close to the "true" rates, as the overall rate in China has been reported to be anywhere from 1.4-3.4% but they're at least illustrative.

Older adults have been hit the hardest. The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%, whereas it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69, 1.3% for 50 to 59, 0.4% for those 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. Even if these were cut by half or by 2/3, they're still well beyond what we see for influenza, where mortality rates in those over 65 is about 1% of those infected and is about 0.02% for those under 40, giving the overall rate of 0.1-0.2%.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

Finally, given the ongoing pandemic, what do we do about it? Well, as I've posted several times, I think the answer lies in South Korea. The most important element of their programs is that they've been testing like crazy (over 190,000 tests so far vs. about 7500 confirmed cases) and practicing effective social distancing/self-quarantining, including not allowing large crowds to gather (but not in full lockdown); in addition, finding out positive cases early on means both better treatment outcomes and self-quarantining of infected people, greatly reducing transmission rates.. They've essentially flattened the Farr's Law epidemiological curve, as per the first graphic, below, to reduce the peak "height" of max number of cases, so that health systems can keep up with infections, rather than being overwhelmed as occurred in Wuhan and is occurring in Iran and Italy - and I think is likely to occur here, at least in very densely populated areas like the DC-Boston corridor.

89770615_10218427592675163_4267245025861042176_n.jpg


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...hundreds-of-thousands-to-fight-virus-outbreak

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Without such testing, as has largely been the case here, there are likely many infected, but asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic people walking around taking no precautions and infecting other people, some of whom are likely in much higher risk age/condition groups - so even though people under 40 are unlikely to be seriously impacted (although fatality rates in China were still above those of influenza, except for children), they can still have a large impact by simply being carriers, especially since the median incubation time from infection to symptoms is 5 days - hence the need for testing and social distancing.

And while SK has 7500 cases, most of that originated early on when travel from China was not restricted. However, recently, the case rate is decreasing, plus their mortality rate is much lower than anywhere else (0.7% vs. 2-5% elsewhere), partly because of early identification/treatment and partly because the denominator is likely close to the real denominator, since they're finding mildly symptomatic people others aren't - and in fact the "true" mortality rate is probably close to SK's, but that's impossible to know without a lot more testing in these other countries.

Unfortunately, the US is not taking SK's approach, having completely bungled testing, which continues, as we've tested 1000X less people, per capita than SK (see table below). It's unconscionable - this lack of testing is putting us at real risk of an Italy-style outbreak, especially in highly densely populated areas like DC to Boston, including NJ/NY, obviously. So, think about all of this when you get annoyed at that school closing or event being cancelled or having to work from home. Hopefully we'll start to see a lot more proactive efforts here at home soon, because if we don't it's going to get ugly fast.

88982670_10218422250781619_4379613194369368064_n.jpg


https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-testing-covid-19-tests-per-capita-chart-us-behind-2020-3

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-testing-diagnostic-covid19-united-states

Once again, this is not influenza - it's much more dangerous, even if the outcomes, worldwide, end up showing far less deaths than influenza, due to countries realizing the risks and implementing interventions to reduce transmission rates, since "true" mortality rates should be a constant. Kind of like Y2K, where billions were spent to prevent a potential catastrophe and then when the catastrophe didn't occur because of those efforts, many people said we wasted our efforts.

As an aside, I've never worried about any infections before, but I'm worried about this one - we've been in near lockdown for the past 8 days (some asthma and other issues). I'm not worried much about me, but I also don't want to go out and catch the virus and infect my wife and son or anyone else, really) and we have about a month's worth of non-perishable food.

One more thing. We also don't know yet if this will be seasonal, like the flu and die down in spring - one would think it should be, given virus sensitivity to heat/UV and increased humidity reducing transmission rates (more effective mucus and less "travel"/resuspension in air of viruses when it's humid) and less people being confined from the cold. However, SARS petered out before spring and MERS started in September in Saudi Arabia, so we don't know the seasonal behavior of those coronaviruses. In addition, it's becoming more likely that this virus will be around for awhile.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-this-epidemiologist-is-more-worried-about-coronavirus-than-he-was-a-month-ago-2020-03-09

Ok last thing: I'd love to know what's going on in Germany. 1565 cases and only 2 deaths (0.1-0.2% mortality rate). Data problem, weird outlier, lack of reporting?

3/11 Edit: Not surprisingly, many experts are giving credit to Germany's aggressive testing approach (see link), which is not surprising since the Germans were the ones who developed the WHO-approved test in late January that much of the world uses (but not the US). Also, it should be noted that Germany is the oldest country in Europe (older even than Italy), so high fatality rates, like Italy has seen (6%) are not necessarily a given, due to an aging population. Having said that, though, it's still too early in the evolution of this situation to declare "victory" in Germany, but it's definitely worth paying attention to.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/03/09/world/europe/ap-eu-virus-outbreak-germany.html

It's quite possible there is some vulnerability/exposure bias early on in the outbreak, but it's almost impossible to imagine this could get the IFR (infection fatality ratio) below 0.5%, let alone down to 0.2%, as per below. Also, as I said to T2K before, he'll never provide any data or analysis supporting his 0.2% number - he just says stuff. And for those who don't read all my posts, I'll repeat the basics here. Look at NYC or NY State, where we actually have seroprevalence data on who has antibodies to the virus from past infection, meaning we actually can calculate reasonably accurate infection fatality ratios.

Being conservative, let's just look at deaths through 5/1, when the antibody testing was completed (in actuality deaths for at least the next week or two would've been from infections prior/up to 5/1). The antibody testing (shared on 5/2) showed 12.3% of NY (2.46MM of 20MM) with antibodies and 19.9% of NYC (1.67MM of 8.4MM) with antibodies, while as of 5/1, there were 24.1K fatalities in NY and 18.3K fatalities in NYC (using the Worldometers data). It's simple math to then calculate the IFR for NY of 1.0% and an IFR for NYC of 1.1%. And we also have a strong piece of corroborating data now, as Spain has ~5% with antibodies (46.7MM people, as of testing last week and 27.2K deaths at that time for an IFR of 1.2%.

The thought that NY's or Spain's IFR could be 0.2% eventually is unrealistic. If one assumes 60% of the population eventually becomes infected (herd immunity: most estimates on that range from 50-80%), then NY's IFR if nobody else dies between now and then would be 28,300 deaths (current)/12MM (60% of NY) or 0.25%, which is already greater than 0.2%. I do think it's likely the IFR will come down some from the 1.0-1.1% we're seeing in NY/NYC, due to early bias towards more of the most vulnerable being infected and perhaps other demographic reasons, which is why I've been saying I think the eventual IFR could be in the 0.5-1.0% range (but more likely towards the 1% side of that range). But let's just say 0.5-1.0% IFR for argument's sake and that's still horrible.

And if the IFR is 0.5-1.0% and ~60% eventually become infected in the US, which will happen without a vaccine and will happen over 6-24 months depending on interventions and population density (those things only affect transmission rate, which affects when 60% infections is achieved, not the endpoint reached), then the estimated US deaths is a simple calculation of 0.5-1.0% x 60% x 330MM which equals 0.99-1.98MM US deaths, eventually (assuming no vaccine or cure for this analysis).

Note that Worldometers in the link below calculates a NYC IFR of 1.4%, as they also count in "excess deaths" (as per the CDC analysis) and assume those are due to coronavirus. I'm only using the confirmed + probable deaths in my calculations, as these are more conservative. If one used only confirmed deaths for NY/NYC, the IFR would be about 0.8% and it's hard to imagine that dropping below 0.5%.

The only way 0.2% IFR is even close to in play is if somehow herd immunity is far less than 60% as a few have speculated or if a large percentage of people have "built-in" immunity to the virus without having antibodies for it yet (the cross reactivity I posted about last night); both of these are very unlikely though.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

Been saying for quite some time, as per the 3/10 and 5/17 posts above, that I thought the eventual fatality rate would end up being around 0.5-1.0%, based on Fauci's early guess in late February of <1%, plus data from the Diamond Princess cruise ship and South Korea's early data. Then by mid-April when antibody testing became available for NY, it showed the true infection fatality rate was around 1%. Then several weeks later, Spain's antibody prevalence and deaths indicated their IFR was around 1.2%. Considering that both areas probably had a higher percentage of more vulnerable people hit, plus medical treatments were bound to get better, I've been thinking that those IFRs would drop into the 0.5-1.0% range.

Well, now comes an article published in Nature in which it's becoming clearer that the ultimate IFR will likely be somewhere in the 0.5-1.0% range, based on a number of researchers evaluating reasonably well documented records of deaths vs. serological (antibody) studies and/or from models. Keep in mind that the IFR can and will change and there are a few experts (and the CDC) who think it will be as low as 0.25-0.4%, but even that is much greater than the 0.05% of the flu (the flu's symptomatic IFR is 0.1%; when counting all infections, it's about 0.05%; also flu hits 10% of the US every year while CV2 could hit 55-80%).

These estimates generally assume no cure/vaccine or very effective treatments to reduce mortality (we'll likely see these) and also assume the virus will not weaken considerably (possible, but no sign of it yet) or that there isn't widespread native immunity in the population (unlikely but possible and very hard to determine). Obviously, any of the preceding would seriously reduce the eventual IFR vs. the "inherent IFR" without any reductions.

However, for public health professionals, governments and us regular folks, having a good estimate of the "inherent IFR" is critical, since once we have that, credible worst case (no cure, vaccine, interventions, etc.) projections can be made, where the math is pretty simple. Assuming 55-80% become infected eventually (over 1-2 years, assuming no interventions - total time depends on pop density and the actual R0 transmission rate, which is not known, for sure yet), for the US, that's 180-260MM infected x 0.5-1.0% who die which equals about 0.9MM-2.6MM US deaths. Eventually.

As many other countries have shown, there are interventions (once again: testing, tracing, isolating, augmented by masking/distancing, which if done well allows close to a normal society, apart from the masks everywhere) that can slow transmissions down so much that it would take decades to reach 55-80% infected (and some have completely eradicated the virus with interventions), obviously buying time for a cure/vaccine. If we had followed that path, which was well-documented in our pandemic playbook, we'd likely have 1000-2000 deaths right now, not 120,000 and counting. And we could still choose to follow that path from here on out and greatly reduce cases, serious illnesses and deaths, but we would need engaged, aligned leadership from the POTUS on down to achieve that. Below is an excerpt and graphic from the article.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2

Data from early in the pandemic overestimated how deadly the virus was, and then later analyses underestimated its lethality. Now, numerous studies — using a range of methods — estimate that in many countries some 5 to 10 people will die for every 1,000 people with COVID-19. “The studies I have any faith in are tending to converge around 0.5–1%,” says Russell.

But some researchers say that convergence between studies could just be coincidence. For a true understanding of how deadly the virus is, scientists need to know how readily it kills different groups of people. The risk of dying from COVID-19 can vary considerably depending on age, ethnicity, access to healthcare, socioeconomic status and underlying health conditions. More high-quality surveys of different groups are needed, these researchers say.

IFR is also specific to a population and changes over time as doctors get better at treating the disease, which can further complicate efforts to pin it down.

Getting the number right is important because it helps governments and individuals to determine appropriate responses. “Calculate too low an IFR, and a community could underreact, and be underprepared. Too high, and the overreaction could be at best expensive, and at worst [could] also add harms from the overuse of interventions like lockdowns,” says Hilda Bastian, who studies evidence-based medicine, and is a PhD candidate at Bond University in the Gold Coast, Australia.

jMQ5H4L.png

 
With all of the back and forth on leronimab and my own bias that it is the success of some therapeutic intervention that has the potential to really change the game, I did some digging to see if I could figure out where things stood with it. I had originally been skeptical of GORU7’s optimism, but time had passed and I was hoping there was new, good news. (And maybe even a stock pick to be made).

What I discovered is that there may well be a stock pick, but it would be pure short-term speculation at this point. I think #s is right and we simply have to wait for the next ~5-10 days to see what happened with the actual clinical trial.

Here is the key finding from the initial study on 10 critically ill COVID-19 patients study in NY which led to the double-blinded clinical study being performed.

Given medical triage resulting in patient death, we cannot comment on the impact of leronlimab on clinical outcome in these patients. While anecdotal evidence of clinical improvement in COVID-19 patients following leronlimab treatment have been reported, randomized clinical trials are required to determine efficacy for COVID-19. … In summary, we show here for the first time, involvement of the CCL5-CCR5 axis in the pathology of SARS-COV-2, and present evidence that inhibition of CCL5 activity via CCR5 blockade represents a novel therapeutic strategy for COVID-19 for both immunological and virologic implications.


Moving on to more recent news:

On June 11, Dr. Nader Pourhassan (Ph.D.) President and CEO of CytoDyn announced that the 75 patient enrollment goal in the double blinded Phase 2 study for mild-moderate cases has been met. The Company expects the evaluation clinical patient data to be available two weeks after the last patient is enrolled. Because there are more patients who have been screened for enrollment, final enrollment is expected to exceed 75. Dr. Pourhassan, commented, “Based upon our understanding of clinical outcomes from severe and critically ill COVID-19 patients, we are guardedly optimistic about the potential results from the mild-to-moderate patients”.

From both societal and stock picking perspectives, efficacy in mild-moderate patients would be great news. And there is reason to be hopeful, but it is no slam dunk.
 
Sounds good, but would be nice to see them publish something on this to back up their claims...

Not sure how this is different than my Garmin watch or a Whoop strap.

It also just predicts "symptoms" not the virus.
My watch also "predicts" a storm coming if barometric pressure drops over 4 hours.

Most players are already tracking this stuff in much better ways.
 
Been saying for quite some time, as per the 3/10 and 5/17 posts above, that I thought the eventual fatality rate would end up being around 0.5-1.0%, based on Fauci's early guess in late February of <1%, plus data from the Diamond Princess cruise ship and South Korea's early data. Then by mid-April when antibody testing became available for NY, it showed the true infection fatality rate was around 1%. Then several weeks later, Spain's antibody prevalence and deaths indicated their IFR was around 1.2%. Considering that both areas probably had a higher percentage of more vulnerable people hit, plus medical treatments were bound to get better, I've been thinking that those IFRs would drop into the 0.5-1.0% range.

Well, now comes an article published in Nature in which it's becoming clearer that the ultimate IFR will likely be somewhere in the 0.5-1.0% range, based on a number of researchers evaluating reasonably well documented records of deaths vs. serological (antibody) studies and/or from models. Keep in mind that the IFR can and will change and there are a few experts (and the CDC) who think it will be as low as 0.25-0.4%, but even that is much greater than the 0.05% of the flu (the flu's symptomatic IFR is 0.1%; when counting all infections, it's about 0.05%; also flu hits 10% of the US every year while CV2 could hit 55-80%).

These estimates generally assume no cure/vaccine or very effective treatments to reduce mortality (we'll likely see these) and also assume the virus will not weaken considerably (possible, but no sign of it yet) or that there isn't widespread native immunity in the population (unlikely but possible and very hard to determine). Obviously, any of the preceding would seriously reduce the eventual IFR vs. the "inherent IFR" without any reductions.

However, for public health professionals, governments and us regular folks, having a good estimate of the "inherent IFR" is critical, since once we have that, credible worst case (no cure, vaccine, interventions, etc.) projections can be made, where the math is pretty simple. Assuming 55-80% become infected eventually (over 1-2 years, assuming no interventions - total time depends on pop density and the actual R0 transmission rate, which is not known, for sure yet), for the US, that's 180-260MM infected x 0.5-1.0% who die which equals about 0.9MM-2.6MM US deaths. Eventually.

As many other countries have shown, there are interventions (once again: testing, tracing, isolating, augmented by masking/distancing, which if done well allows close to a normal society, apart from the masks everywhere) that can slow transmissions down so much that it would take decades to reach 55-80% infected (and some have completely eradicated the virus with interventions), obviously buying time for a cure/vaccine. If we had followed that path, which was well-documented in our pandemic playbook, we'd likely have 1000-2000 deaths right now, not 120,000 and counting. And we could still choose to follow that path from here on out and greatly reduce cases, serious illnesses and deaths, but we would need engaged, aligned leadership from the POTUS on down to achieve that. Below is an excerpt and graphic from the article.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2

Data from early in the pandemic overestimated how deadly the virus was, and then later analyses underestimated its lethality. Now, numerous studies — using a range of methods — estimate that in many countries some 5 to 10 people will die for every 1,000 people with COVID-19. “The studies I have any faith in are tending to converge around 0.5–1%,” says Russell.

But some researchers say that convergence between studies could just be coincidence. For a true understanding of how deadly the virus is, scientists need to know how readily it kills different groups of people. The risk of dying from COVID-19 can vary considerably depending on age, ethnicity, access to healthcare, socioeconomic status and underlying health conditions. More high-quality surveys of different groups are needed, these researchers say.

IFR is also specific to a population and changes over time as doctors get better at treating the disease, which can further complicate efforts to pin it down.

Getting the number right is important because it helps governments and individuals to determine appropriate responses. “Calculate too low an IFR, and a community could underreact, and be underprepared. Too high, and the overreaction could be at best expensive, and at worst [could] also add harms from the overuse of interventions like lockdowns,” says Hilda Bastian, who studies evidence-based medicine, and is a PhD candidate at Bond University in the Gold Coast, Australia.

jMQ5H4L.png

Do we know what the IFR is for people who are young and healthy?
 
yea, bailed on Maine. Same deal with VT and NH. Even if not enforced, why worry that locals will give you a hard time based on your plates. Will you enjoy the vacation with that on your mind ?
I did wonder if the "stigma" would be worthwhile tbh. I'm still considering Maine personally but it may have to wait another year.
 
Yeah I’d like to see that too. I have a feeling it’s not much worse for young and healthy, but considerably worse for elderly and compromised.
coronavirus-death-rates-by-age-new-york-city.jpg


This graph is just the overall death rates by age group in NYC and not IFR. However, you can make inferences from it. The death rate in 18-44 is roughly one tenth of the overall which would suggest around 0.1%. That assumes the infection rate is similar between overall and 18-44. I would guess that some of those in the 18-44 are not healthy and have some comorbs so I would guess the IFR for healthy people 18-44 would be some fraction of 0.1%.
 
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Agreed, which is why I've always advocated the South Korea/Taiwan approach of aggressive early testing, tracing and isolations, augmented by masks and social distancing, which was able to achieve 1/100th the case/death rate we have without draconian lockdowns. This was in our own pandemic playbook, but we failed to follow it. China had to do draconian lockdowns because they didn't know what was coming; other countries, including the US did - some just planned/responded much better.
It's also nonsense to try and compare the US vs. countries like Taiwan and So Korea regarding this covid outbreak. First the geographics and demographics couldn't be more different. The U.S. is 99x larger in land mass vs So Korea and 723x the size of Taiwan. Why would So Dakota need to respond like NY? It might be fair to compare the response of some US states to So Korea and Taiwan, but not this country at-large. Don't forget Cuomo and deBlasio for example resisted almost every response recommended by Trump into March.

In addition those much smaller Far East countries had the infrastructure in place and had live experience responding to this pandemic after the Sars outbreak from China in 2002-04. And then of course we have the problem with WHO that first reported that covid was not transmitted human-to-human, later to declare a regional pandemic for Asia, and finally declaring a global pandemic on March 11, 2020 after months of, at a minimum, missteps, but possibly a cover-up, in aiding and abetting China's misdeeds in alerting the world to this danger.
 
It's also nonsense to try and compare the US vs. countries like Taiwan and So Korea regarding this covid outbreak. First the geographics and demographics couldn't be more different. The U.S. is 99x larger in land mass vs So Korea and 723x the size of Taiwan. Why would So Dakota need to respond like NY? It might be fair to compare the response of some US states to So Korea and Taiwan, but not this country at-large. Don't forget Cuomo and deBlasio for example resisted almost every response recommended by Trump into March.

In addition those much smaller Far East countries had the infrastructure in place and had live experience responding to this pandemic after the Sars outbreak from China in 2002-04. And then of course we have the problem with WHO that first reported that covid was not transmitted human-to-human, later to declare a regional pandemic for Asia, and finally declaring a global pandemic on March 11, 2020 after months of, at a minimum, missteps, but possibly a cover-up, in aiding and abetting China's misdeeds in alerting the world to this danger.

Despite China's lies and lack of transparency in the early days of the outbreak, in particular, it was known by late January that this virus was transmitted human to human (and earlier, according to US intelligence reports) and it was known how horribly deadly and transmissible it was by then, too, given the draconian shutdown of Hubei/Wuhan. Some countries took this seriously, like SK, Taiwan, and many others and had aggressive testing, tracing and isolating in place by the time it hit there hard (before it hit here hard). We did not.

Our Federal government, which is charged with responsibility for National Security (and our pandemic playbook and 2018 pandemic simulations all agree on that) did essentially nothing until about mid-March, when it was too late. The CDC and the Administration completely bungled testing and even then we still could have obtained test kits from other countries using the German-developed, WHO approved test, but we didn't. They also did nothing to proactively expand our inventory of medical supplies and PPE and we had a POTUS who downplayed the seriousness of the virus from late Jan through mid-March and continues to do so. The only thing they did right was the travel ban from China, but missed doing the same from Europe, where the vast majority of cases came to the US from (especially in the NE US). @RU4Real wrote a great post on the incompetence of the Administration in planning for and responding to the pandemic.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/ot-good-news-on-cv-19-treatment.198410/#post-4610960

We watched SK respond to a major outbreak in mid/late Feb with massive testing, tracing and isolating, controlling the outbreak by early March. And the Seoul area is as densely populated with as much total population as NYC Metro, so clearly they showed how it could be done in areas like that. But we ran zero tests in NY/NJ through early March (and close to zero everywhere else) and we now know we had tens of thousands of undetected cases by then in our area and were in the midst of the most explosive exponential growth seen, to date, for the entire planet.

Yes they had experience with SARS, but we all knew what the response to a pandemic should be and they executed on it, while we didn't. End of story. If we had followed our own playbook and started massive testing in late Feb instead of mid-March, we very likely would be looking at a few thousand deaths in the US instead of 120K and counting. And they did all this without any major lockdowns and continue to be able to control any flare-ups. And if you're looking for larger countries that have done far, far better than the US, look no further than Japan (who mostly did it with 100% mask wearing and a very good tracing/isolating program) and China, both of whom have similar, very low deaths per capita (1/100th of ours, roughly). So don't say it's due to geography or demographics.

And despite the mountains of evidence of how shitty a job we've done with this pandemic, we're doubling down in many states by reopening prematurely and not requiring masks in public, which is astonishingly irresponsible.
 
Do we know what the IFR is for people who are young and healthy?
Obviously dying is a stat to think about but the other thing that crosses my mind are the people who don't die but have long term lingering or worse effects. I'm not sure if there are any stats on those kind of outcomes.
 
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