COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

[wisr01]

Great find. Buy me some of that stock.
That is the key to stop this infection..at the receptor site which will then prevent the cascade which leads to the pneumonia phase of infection and then the phase that looks like high altitude pulmonary edema/pulmonary hypertension because they have different treatments depending on which presentation the patient has at what phase of the illness. Some look like typical pneumonia and just need some oxygen for a while and some look like complicated pneumonia with ARDS and some look like high altitude pulmonary edema where some sort of ultra-inflammatory reaction is set off and the blood vessels are involved and you get a lot of what we call ventilation perfusion mismatch and lung damage from using too high of peep as we try to force high pressurized O2 into inflamed like a vasculitis thickened microcirculationof the alveoli. It's this phase where I think the donor serum could be helpful if pooled from enough donors from the same geographical area. By the way I haven't seen any antibody test that's without its faults and you can have a cross-reactivity with other Corona viruses so you're not going to be able to identify donors with an antibody test at this time.

I found that link while trying to search for existing receptor site research. I found some articles that led to that site. It has been a long time since my days on the bench but truth be told I miss it badly. Sure I moved out and up and made plenty of money but the most enjoyment/satisfaction I had in my career was on the bench.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

If that is true, then I agree. But would that not let DiBlasio off the hook? To some extent at least?

well.. those sources never said do the OPPOSITE of sensible virus avoidance.. and you have a timing issue here.. DiBlasio did that AFTER Trump cut off flights from China.. which is the day after WHO warned of a pandemic.. which, by definition.. is a world-wide possible threat. Trump thought that if he cut off travel from China he was probably good to go... and we were better off for it.. but the damage was already done.. China was allowing people from the affected area to fly.. anywhere outside of China... how EVIL is that? How could we know that?

 

[RU-05]

Both of you have valid points. Cases should be going down because of distancing, and probably are, however, there's no way to tell how widespread infection still is without more testing. Drive thru testing sites are still limited to a few hundred a day, and only for those showing symptoms that are serious enough to concern medical professionals. So that potential number of infections reported in NJ are kind of capped by the number of tests processed per day. My cousin just recovered from the virus after 11 days in the hospital. My uncle tested positive as well, but was at home. My aunt and other cousin showed some symptoms, but were told that they weren't serious enough to test, but should assume they have it. Their numbers do not get included in the daily report of new cases.

The tests may not be able to keep up, but the hospitalizations don't lie, we are no longer seeing the rapid increase, ICU cases were actually down in NY.

 

[RU-05]

well.. those sources never said do the OPPOSITE of sensible virus avoidance.. and you have a timing issue here.. DiBlasio did that AFTER Trump cut off flights from China.. which is the day after WHO warned of a pandemic.. which, by definition.. is a world-wide possible threat. Trump thought that if he cut off travel from China he was probably good to go... and we were better off for it.. but the damage was already done.. China was allowing people from the affected area to fly.. anywhere outside of China... how EVIL is that? How could we know that?

I don't really know what information was given DiBlasio, but if the fed's had information which said holding such festivals was a bad idea, then they should have been sure that DiBlasio and Cuomo, and all the other governors and big city mayors were aware. If they did, then that makes DiBlasio look even worse then he does(and I think he looks bad no matter how little they told him) if they didn't, then that does take a fair amount of the heat off of DiBlasio, though not all of it.

But NYC, just by how compact it is, how much interaction happens on the streets, in the subways, in stores and restaurants, everyday, not just festivals, and by the fact that it is such an int'l travel hub, it was likely going to get hit pretty hard by this.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I don't really know what information was given DiBlasio, but if the fed's had information which said holding such festivals was a bad idea, then they should have been sure that DiBlasio and Cuomo, and all the other governors and big city mayors were aware. If they did, then that makes DiBlasio look even worse then he does(and I think he looks bad no matter how little they told him) if they didn't, then that does take a fair amount of the heat off of DiBlasio, though not all of it.

But NYC, just by how compact it is, how much interaction happens on the streets, in the subways, in stores and restaurants, everyday, not just festivals, and by the fact that it is such an int'l travel hub, it was likely going to get hit pretty hard by this.

Here's NYC's Health Commissioner.. was da mayuh getting his advice from her?

 

[RU-05]

Here's NYC's Health Commissioner.. was da mayuh getting his advice from her?

View embedded media

Again, if the Fed's had credible info to say don't do this, then they should have stepped in and said so.

If they did, then bad on NYC, if they didn't......

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Again, if the Fed's had credible info to say don't do this, then they should have stepped in and said so.

If they did, then bad on NYC, if they didn't......

It is not the feds job to monitor what every state, city and town is doing. It is up to those states, cities and towns to do the right thing.

Bloomberg reports from Feb 1.. NYC had a CoVid patient.. the day prior to her statement.. Bottom line: this NYC public health official got it wrong.. badly wrong

 

[AntiG]

I don't really know what information was given DiBlasio, but if the fed's had information which said holding such festivals was a bad idea, then they should have been sure that DiBlasio and Cuomo, and all the other governors and big city mayors were aware. If they did, then that makes DiBlasio look even worse then he does(and I think he looks bad no matter how little they told him) if they didn't, then that does take a fair amount of the heat off of DiBlasio, though not all of it.

But NYC, just by how compact it is, how much interaction happens on the streets, in the subways, in stores and restaurants, everyday, not just festivals, and by the fact that it is such an int'l travel hub, it was likely going to get hit pretty hard by this.

https://ny.eater.com/2020/4/8/21213598/nyc-coronavirus-warnings-deblasio-cuomo-nytimes
https://www.propublica.org/article/...lator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block

 

[Wolv RU]

I don't really know what information was given DiBlasio, but if the fed's had information which said holding such festivals was a bad idea, then they should have been sure that DiBlasio and Cuomo, and all the other governors and big city mayors were aware. If they did, then that makes DiBlasio look even worse then he does(and I think he looks bad no matter how little they told him) if they didn't, then that does take a fair amount of the heat off of DiBlasio, though not all of it.

But NYC, just by how compact it is, how much interaction happens on the streets, in the subways, in stores and restaurants, everyday, not just festivals, and by the fact that it is such an int'l travel hub, it was likely going to get hit pretty hard by this.

Anyone have an understanding as to what has gone so wrong in Michigan that it is suffering so much relatively to other states?

 

[RUinPinehurst]

Anyone have an understanding as to what has gone so wrong in Michigan that it is suffering so much relatively to other states?

Cold Weather + Socio-Economics + Lack of Initial Response = Michigan Suffering

... just a guess, though....

 

[RUfubar]

Thanks for both of your replies. I was reading a treatment protocol that was put out by a hospital system down in Virginia (can't remember which one) and they were talking about liberal use of anticoagulants. Also mentioned vitamin C, zinc, HCQ, zith, steroids...I'll have to see if I can find it. This disease is horrifying and fascinating at the same time.

Here's the treatment protocol I'm referring to. Would be interesting to know how this compares to what is being done at your hospitals.

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...cine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

That link is extraordinary and puts together what we are doing and what we should be doing. I have been so tempted to use more liberal steroids but it depends on what phase they are at and sometimes difficult to do all that data collecting on a continual basis- in fact it's almost impossible. Bravo whoever put that comprehensive info together in that way.
We have already run out of vitamin c and zinc infusions.

 

[wisr01]

That link is extraordinary and puts together what we are doing and what we should be doing. I have been so tempted to use more liberal steroids but it depends on what phase they are at and sometimes difficult to do all that data collecting on a continual basis- in fact it's almost impossible. Bravo whoever put that comprehensive info together in that way.We have already run out of vitamin c and zinc infusions.

:cry:

 

[Big boy stan]

It is not the feds job to monitor what every state, city and town is doing. It is up to those states, cities and towns to do the right thing.

Not sure why you guys are arguing which party is to blame. There is plenty of blame on both of them. With that said, predicting the events of the last couple of weeks is not easy. I am not sure what leader anywhere in the world you could point out as having stopped this before it broke out. Even Silvers who is getting a lot of love for being one of the first to shut down a major organization (NBA) didn't do it until he had publicly sick employees.

 

[cohwx]

That link is extraordinary and puts together what we are doing and what we should be doing. I have been so tempted to use more liberal steroids but it depends on what phase they are at and sometimes difficult to do all that data collecting on a continual basis- in fact it's almost impossible. .

Can only imagine what it's like in the hospitals in NYC and other heavily impacted areas. I volunteered in a trauma center about 25 years ago (was thinking about med school) and watching the trauma teams handle patients was remarkable, everything so choreographed, everyone with a specific task. No matter how severe or unusual the case, it ran smoothly and there was never any panic. The current conditions must be the complete opposite.

This is why it's so important to maintain the social distancing to keep down the number of patients requiring hospital care. Too many patients and the care to each suffers.

Thanks for giving us a frontline viewpoint and stay safe!

 

[UMRU]

I wonder if it would simply be easier to go right to the antibody test, especially since we know the PCR viral test is not particularly sensitive, meaning people with low, but non-zero viral loads will still be donating, even if they have negative viral tests


Absolutely, great points. Still much we don't know about antibody levels and neutralizing antibodies (and memory B cells and more), including are our tests discriminatory enough and even if they are, do we know how much of which component is key to immunity and for who long and in which patients, etc., etc.. The Scientific American article provides an easier to read, but still pretty insightful, overview of many of the issues and the 2nd one has a deeper take on the science.

That's why I'm simply so curious to see the results of the trials of the plasma therapy, i.e., can we at least confirm remission of very serious viral infections, as was seen in the two small Chinese studies (with 5 and 10 seriously ill patients, including on ventilators)? If that is confirmed and that's all it does (i.e., even if it doesn't confer long term immunity), even that is huge and scalable for 10,000 seriously ill patients in the US. If it's much more effective early in the infection, then scalability would be more difficult with obviously many more patients.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-immunity-to-covid-19-really-means/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/vox.12926

From limited interactions with one major pharmaceutical company, they seem to be very focussed on generating a protective T cell response. T cell responses, such as CD8 "killer" T cells can directly kill virally infected cells. However, it is much more difficult to measure a protective T cell response and, probably more importantly, protective T cell responses are not as durable as protective antibody responses (months, maybe years for T cells, whereas antibody protection can last decades or more).

 

[UMRU]

Very early trial of the Gilead drug, Remdesivir, just came out in the New England Journal of Medicine. Remdesivir was recently shown to function by sticking itself into the viral RNA as it is being. This prevents the rest of the RNA from made by the RNA polymerase. This is a very interesting and powerful new approach that has been shown to be effective in pre-clinical models. Pre-clinical models usually means "tested in non-human animals", which is a huge step beyond the in vitro studies published for other drugs (in vitro means cell lines in "petrie" dishes).

Frustratingly, the NEJM study was very small and primarily showed that the drug was reasonably well tolerated, although it did potentially cause some liver toxicity. My back of the envelope calculations suggest that the % of people getting better with the drug was about what would be expected without the drug.

Nonetheless, I am still very hopeful for this approach. It really seems like the drug most likely to have a quick impact.

 

[RUBOB72]

Again, if the Fed's had credible info to say don't do this, then they should have stepped in and said so.

If they did, then bad on NYC, if they didn't......

Individual states are responsible to govern and make decisions for theIr own citizens before the government should interfere. The Federal government is there to act as an advisor or make suggestions. Individual states have autonomy to govern. Only when they do not act appropriately or ask for direction by the Fed should they give up that right. If the Federal government overtook the virus infected states from the outset, there would be outrage not only by the governors and state politicians but the media hounds would have a field day claiming over governance by Trump.

 

[cohwx]

Very early trial of the Gilead drug, Remdesivir, just came out in the New England Journal of Medicine. Remdesivir was recently shown to function by sticking itself into the viral RNA as it is being. This prevents the rest of the RNA from made by the RNA polymerase. This is a very interesting and powerful new approach that has been shown to be effective in pre-clinical models. Pre-clinical models usually means "tested in non-human animals", which is a huge step beyond the in vitro studies published for other drugs (in vitro means cell lines in "petrie" dishes).

Frustratingly, the NEJM study was very small and primarily showed that the drug was reasonably well tolerated, although it did potentially cause some liver toxicity. My back of the envelope calculations suggest that the % of people getting better with the drug was about what would be expected without the drug.

Nonetheless, I am still very hopeful for this approach. It really seems like the drug most likely to have a quick impact.

There were supposedly relatively large-scale tests of this drug (and others) in China, right? And we should be getting some results from those shortly if I recall correctly. We need to get away from these small scale and anecdotal "results" that people are pushing. (I don't mean you)

 

[RU2055]

There were supposedly relatively large-scale tests of this drug (and others) in China, right? And we should be getting some results from those shortly if I recall correctly. We need to get away from these small scale and anecdotal "results" that people are pushing. (I don't mean you)

https://seekingalpha.com/news/35599...ows-positive-effect-in-covidminus-19-patients

Two Phase 3 studies are in process (Gilead sponsor) with topline data from one, SIMPLE, expected this month. (The other in May)

A China-based study (this was the April 3 one, unfortunately - so, inconclusive - also this was Chinese sponsored so who knows - maybe they kept data for themselves) in severely ill COVID-19 patients has been terminated due to low enrollment while another (also Chinese sponsored, but at this point, just wait for the Gilead data) in mild-to-moderately ill patients in ongoing.

Italics mine

 

[ArminRU]

Very early trial of the Gilead drug, Remdesivir, just came out in the New England Journal of Medicine. Remdesivir was recently shown to function by sticking itself into the viral RNA as it is being. This prevents the rest of the RNA from made by the RNA polymerase. This is a very interesting and powerful new approach that has been shown to be effective in pre-clinical models. Pre-clinical models usually means "tested in non-human animals", which is a huge step beyond the in vitro studies published for other drugs (in vitro means cell lines in "petrie" dishes).

Frustratingly, the NEJM study was very small and primarily showed that the drug was reasonably well tolerated, although it did potentially cause some liver toxicity. My back of the envelope calculations suggest that the % of people getting better with the drug was about what would be expected without the drug.

Nonetheless, I am still very hopeful for this approach. It really seems like the drug most likely to have a quick impact.

I wonder what the rate of people getting off vents is vs those who do not. I read the paper too, hard to tell if they are good or not.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Don't know if this was posted here already but came across this article about BCG vaccine for TB. Bacteria vs virus but theory is it could create some sort of off target effects for the immune system to lessen the severity of COVID-19. Some think it's a hail mary pass but trials are being done in Australia and the Netherlands and soon in Massachusetts. One study said countries with mandatory TB vaccines have fewer deaths than those without in a possible correlation.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/health/tuberculosis-bcg-vaccine-coronavirus/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/health/coronavirus-bcg-vaccine.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ths-seen-in-countries-that-mandate-tb-vaccine

 

[charliem24]

Individual states are responsible to govern and make decisions for theIr own citizens before the government should interfere. The Federal government is there to act as an advisor or make suggestions. Individual states have autonomy to govern. Only when they do not act appropriately or ask for direction by the Fed should they give up that right. If the Federal government overtook the virus infected states from the outset, there would be outrage not only by the governors and state politicians but the media hounds would have a field day claiming over governance by Trump.

Agree that states should have control over when to end or reduce quarantine but the resources of the federal government are needed to develop and mass produce tests and to provide guidance as to how and when states can lift quarantines.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Cold Weather + Socio-Economics + Lack of Initial Response = Michigan Suffering

... just a guess, though....

We still do not know where all those Chinese and internationals who fled Wuhan went. We do suspect that northern Italy was hit hard because of imported Chinese labor from Wuhan for their garment industry. The places hit hardest could simply be because that is where travelers from Wuhan went. It could be because locals who traveled and returned home got infected by those fleeing Wuhan on connecting flights, in airports, etc.

It might the interesting to find out, but then again, can't we just assume that's what happened at this point? Maybe take Michigan's case and backtrack everything for those infected early? Then again, even that becomes very hard to do because of the people who are carriers but are otherwise unaffected.

 

[RUevolution36]

We still do not know where all those Chinese and internationals who fled Wuhan went. We do suspect that northern Italy was hit hard because of imported Chinese labor from Wuhan for their garment industry. The places hit hardest could simply be because that is where travelers from Wuhan went. It could be because locals who traveled and returned home got infected by those fleeing Wuhan on connecting flights, in airports, etc.

It might the interesting to find out, but then again, can't we just assume that's what happened at this point? Maybe take Michigan's case and backtrack everything for those infected early? Then again, even that becomes very hard to do because of the people who are carriers but are otherwise unaffected.

It's pretty clear that it spread thru international travel, whether from Chinese nationals going overseas, or others traveling to China and going back to their home countries. Realistically, it will be near impossible to fully trace back every step, so the focus should be on contact tracing for the currently diagnosed known cases to try and contain additional spread. The scientists can trace origins in general, i.e., Wuhan -> rest of China -> Italy -> US, but to be able to pinpoint exact origins of individual or small clusters would take more effort than can be expended right now.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Not sure why you guys are arguing which party is to blame. There is plenty of blame on both of them. With that said, predicting the events of the last couple of weeks is not easy. I am not sure what leader anywhere in the world you could point out as having stopped this before it broke out. Even Silvers who is getting a lot of love for being one of the first to shut down a major organization (NBA) didn't do it until he had publicly sick employees.

Not really what I am doing.. I am saying that everyone got this wrong early on. There is plenty of evidence for that. The criticisms that the federal government should have gotten it right, while its medical experts, including Dr. Fauci, got it wrong while not having that same criticism for NY State and NYC officials is playing politics, imho. So, to counter that argument you must delve into the realm of politics.

 

[DJ Spanky]

At this point, there's a lot of blame to go around, but, in truth, the human race hasn't faced something like this since 1918. And the world is totally different from back then. If China had been open about this from the get-go instead of denying it and punishing those who reported it, we might have gained another 1-2 months to prepare for this. But either way we were going to face this one way or another.

 

[bac2therac]

bingo...the blame game is wrong on both sides. Unfortunately its not going to stop because neither side wants it too. The MSM and Dems and people that hate Trump will use this politically yet at the same time the other side can blame inaction by Fauci, the CDC, the WHO, former administrations for not stockpiling, and nyc officials and hospitals for not being ready at all

How about stop blaming. Its a pandemic, we all know things could have been done better. Analysis needs to focus on how it was mitigation once it was clear the virus was going to overrun our country...and I think all sides have done a great job since March 10

 

[cohwx]

At this point, there's a lot of blame to go around, but, in truth, the human race hasn't faced something like this since 1918. And the world is totally different from back then. If China had been open about this from the get-go instead of denying it and punishing those who reported it, we might have gained another 1-2 months to prepare for this. But either way we were going to face this one way or another.

True, and for the current situation it doesn't really matter what China did or didn't do back in November/December. The virus is everywhere and we have to deal with it. There were failures across the board, international level (WHO), federal govt level, state and local level. Current administration and previous administrations (remind me again, what was all that pandemic planning for?) It is what it is. We just have to make sure we don't allow it to get completely out of control again, like it has in the NYC area.

It's pretty clear that it spread thru international travel, whether from Chinese nationals going overseas, or others traveling to China and going back to their home countries. Realistically, it will be near impossible to fully trace back every step, so the focus should be on contact tracing for the currently diagnosed known cases to try and contain additional spread. The scientists can trace origins in general, i.e., Wuhan -> rest of China -> Italy -> US, but to be able to pinpoint exact origins of individual or small clusters would take more effort than can be expended right now.

Right now it really doesn't matter where each contry's outbreak or major clusters originated. What we need to be able to do is, once the current outbreak is brought down to reasonably low levels, use extensive testing/contact tracing/quarantines to keep it from getting out of control. (Of course we need to be doing that now as well but need more testing capacity) I don't know how well that is going to work but we're going to have to do our best, at least until a vaccine or effective drug treatment becomes available. That could be a long time.

 

[wisr01]

https://www.technologyreview.com/20...ow-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/

They found that 2% of residents were actively infected by the coronavirus and a total of 14% had antibodies, indicating a prior infection. This group of people, they say, “can no longer be infected with SARS-CoV-2,” as the virus is known to scientists.

As the virus spreads, it sends a certain percentage of people to the hospital and a few of those to ICUs; a portion of those will die. One of the biggest unanswered questions is exactly what percentage of infected people the coronavirus is killing.

From the result of their blood survey, the German team estimated the death rate in the municipality at 0.37% overall, a figure significantly lower than what’s shown on a dashboard maintained by Johns Hopkins, where the death rate in Germany among reported cases is 2%.

 

[RU-05]

Individual states are responsible to govern and make decisions for theIr own citizens before the government should interfere. The Federal government is there to act as an advisor or make suggestions. Individual states have autonomy to govern. Only when they do not act appropriately or ask for direction by the Fed should they give up that right. If the Federal government overtook the virus infected states from the outset, there would be outrage not only by the governors and state politicians but the media hounds would have a field day claiming over governance by Trump.

I'm not fully saying the fed's should have stepped in and taken control, but they should be telling states they have this information that say's there is a serious issue, do I think the Fed's were doing that? No. Do I expect city health officials to have a better understanding of world wide health concerns then fed's? No I do not.

All over the country there were large gatherings going on. The NBA and NHL were still having game's in states all across the country. NCAA basketball was still having games. Mega churches still having gatherings. Concerts. Presidential campaign rallies.

To say DiBlasio and Cuomo(aand Murphy too) were looking to carry on business as usual while the rest of the country were beginning to hunker down is a false narrative. Heck we still saw states allowing all sorts of gatherings well into the timeline even after the spread of the virus in NYC.

 

[RU-05]

I'm going to say my store is still at about %5 people trying to come in without a mask.

Another 5% people who have a mask but it either doesn't cover their nose and mouth, or remove it to talk.

 

[RUPete]

I'm going to say my store is still at about %5 people trying to come in without a mask.

Another 5% people who have a mask but it either doesn't cover their nose and mouth, or remove it to talk.

I love seeing folks outside with the mask hanging around their neck smoking a cigarette.

 

[RU#1fan]

This.
US Intelligence Department had been telling the Federal Government / White House about the dangers of the pending Pandemic back in January. Fake news was the response.
The States take the lead from our Federal leaders. Which was zero.

 

[RUPete]

I'm not fully saying the fed's should have stepped in and taken control, but they should be telling states they have this information that say's there is a serious issue, do I think the Fed's were doing that? No. Do I expect city health officials to have a better understanding of world wide health concerns then fed's? No I do not.

All over the country there were large gatherings going on. The NBA and NHL were still having game's in states all across the country. NCAA basketball was still having games. Mega churches still having gatherings. Concerts. Presidential campaign rallies.

To say DiBlasio and Cuomo(aand Murphy too) were looking to carry on business as usual while the rest of the country were beginning to hunker down is a false narrative. Heck we still saw states allowing all sorts of gatherings well into the timeline even after the spread of the virus in NYC.

And if Gobert doesn’t happen, all sports probably keep going for a while adding to the problem. As much as it breaks my heart that RU couldn’t go, playing even the first round of the NCAAs with crowds would have been a disaster.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

...To say DiBlasio and Cuomo(aand Murphy too) were looking to carry on business as usual while the rest of the country were beginning to hunker down is a false narrative. Heck we still saw states allowing all sorts of gatherings well into the timeline even after the spread of the virus in NYC.

You watch.. every state should be looking at getting back to work soon for a very good reason... state governments tax income is hurting.. they cannot spend money.. their political power often stems from controlling government spending. That's why Cuomo didn't buy those respirators in 2015.. he had better spending to do, re: political power, upstate. Very soon the political implications of less tax income will become evident.. and a political problem. Instead of PPE and respirators.. the asks will be about money... because only the feds can print money to throw at problems.

 

[RU-05]

This.
US Intelligence Department had been telling the Federal Government / White House about the dangers of the pending Pandemic back in January. Fake news was the response.
The States take the lead from our Federal leaders. Which was zero.

These are the 2 main pillars of my point.

1)The US Intelligence Department (as well as other federal agenices) should have a much better grasp on world affairs then the NYC health inspector.

2)Because of 1 above, these calls need to be made at the federal. If NYC should be shut down because of the potential of a worldwide pandemic entering into our cities, I feel that has to come from the federal level.

Now do the fed's get let off the hook a bit because of false information coming out of China and from the WHO? I think that is very possible, but if that let's the fed's off the hook, then that certainly lets others down the food chain like mayors and city health officials off the hook as well.

 

[RU-05]

You watch.. every state should be looking at getting back to work soon for a very good reason... state governments tax income is hurting.. they cannot spend money.. their political power often stems from controlling government spending. That's why Cuomo didn't buy those respirators in 2015.. he had better spending to do, re: political power, upstate. Very soon the political implications of less tax income will become evident.. and a political problem. Instead of PPE and respirators.. the asks will be about money... because only the feds can print money to throw at problems.

I'll leave the politcal power part out of the equation, but yeah, figuring out how to reopen this economy is a central part of this. Super important that it get's open as soon as possible, for the country as a whole, not just for the states. The question is: when is as soon as possible?

 

[UMRU]

I wonder what the rate of people getting off vents is vs those who do not. I read the paper too, hard to tell if they are good or not.

Yeah, I agree with you - hard to tell. I'm very surprised the NEJM let them publish this paper with the results seemingly so obscured. The overall impression the paper seems to give is that the drug is working, but I don't believe that is what the results show and to the authors' credit, they never say that.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I'll leave the politcal power part out of the equation, but yeah, figuring out how to reopen this economy is a central part of this. Super important that it get's open as soon as possible, for the country as a whole, not just for the states. The question is: when is as soon as possible?

I dunno when ASAP is.. there are good arguments on all sides... its a pay me now/pay me later kinda thing. The thing is, it is the economy that allows us to have resources to address crises.. permanent damage to the economy.. and world economy.. needs be avoided. The cost would be way more than deaths from CV19.

 

[UMRU]

There were supposedly relatively large-scale tests of this drug (and others) in China, right? And we should be getting some results from those shortly if I recall correctly. We need to get away from these small scale and anecdotal "results" that people are pushing. (I don't mean you)

So true. However, ~85% or more people recover from COVID-19 with no or only supportive treatment. Therefore, definitive trials will take a huge numbers of people - thousands with treatment and thousands as control. That's why any actual clinical trial typically cost millions of $$ and take a long time.