COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

The Administration have thrown HHS and CDC under the bus since late-Feb at least; though both agencies / departments are run by the White House’s nominations.

Here we go smh--Jackie Smith dropped a wide open TD pass in the endzone that cost Dallas SB XIII-it hit him right in the breadbasket. Was the OC or head coach to blame for calling that play to Smith?

C'mon you're beating a dead horse. Go ahead and blast the career government scientists and health officials that botched the testing kit development in the CDC lab. And why was there never any apparent consensus among career health officials and scientists about the threat urgency in Jan-Feb? I'm fine with getting real answers there--suspect Chicom's cover-up was a huge part of the problem.

 

[RUBOB72]

What?? My point is that many would eat themselves into obesity if it meant they'd be supported for life by the government.

Like I answered back earlier....sorry ... if that was it my bad... you would lose 1/2 of Rutgers fans based upon what I have seen for years...in fact we would lose 1/2 of the B1G schools fans... Midwest is not a healthy lot.

 

[Wolv RU]

ask and ye shall receive:

About 41% of adults may be at higher risk for severe Covid-19 infection due to underlying conditions

From CNN’s Jen Christensen

In the United States, about 41% of adults had at least one underlying medical condition that may put them at a higher risk for severe Covid-19 outcomes, according to a new report published Thursday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The research, published in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly report, looked at five conditions that tend to put people at greater risk for more severe disease from the coronavirus: chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic kidney disease and obesity. It did not include other conditions, such as sickle cell disease or organ transplants.

What the study found was that the numbers of adults with these conditions varied by county –– from almost 1 in 4 adults to as many as two-thirds of adults in a county.

In half of US counties, almost 1 in 2 adults were estimated to have an underlying condition.

There were higher proportions of people with these health conditions living in rural areas, and in Appalachia and in the Southeast.

The most common underlying condition was obesity, followed by diabetes, COPD, heart disease and chronic kidney disease.

What this means: The CDC authors said the data on these conditions is limited at the county level. They hope the report can help public health leaders use the information to help them make decisions about what areas might need more health resources that may be overlooked otherwise.

Rural areas, that already had been struggling with a lack of health care resources prior to the pandemic, for example, may need even more help. These areas may have smaller populations, but they have communities that have more people with underlying health conditions that may put them at greater risk of needing to be hospitalized for the disease.

Perhaps I'm missing it, but where does this give the breakdown as to what people have been or are currently hospitalized with Covid and what their characteristics are?

 

[bac2therac]

Calling people idiots for wanting to stay healthy or not spread their disease?

Classy.

No..its about normalizing masks in non corona times

If you are sick stay home away from the public

But you know its not about the sick wearing..you know what will be suggested ..just wait

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Here we go smh--Jackie Smith dropped a wide open TD pass in the endzone that cost Dallas SB XIII-it hit him right in the breadbasket. Was the OC or head coach to blame for calling that play to Smith?

C'mon you're beating a dead horse. Go ahead and blast the career government scientists and health officials that botched the testing kit development in the CDC lab. And why was there never any apparent consensus among career health officials and scientists about the threat urgency in Jan-Feb? I'm fine with getting real answers there--suspect Chicom's cover-up was a huge part of the problem.

1) China and WHO deserve blame in this crisis
2) What arrives on our doorstep from overseas is our responsibility to manage, and there must be accountability at home for the outcome between our shores.
3) I’m not going to address the head coach / coordinators thing again, I did so earlier in this thread. All I’ll say is that you have no evidence the right plays are being called; the evidence we do have, what the President has put in the public record himself, suggests the opposite.

 

[m1ipabrams]

Perhaps I'm missing it, but where does this give the breakdown as to what people have been or are currently hospitalized with Covid and what their characteristics are?

this news snippet doesn't have it but I am sure the CDC research that it is discussing does.

 

[RUBOB72]

Perhaps I'm missing it, but where does this give the breakdown as to what people have been or are currently hospitalized with Covid and what their characteristics are?

This is not new so why post ..if you have been alive the past 5 months then you realize almost everyone who vet age 40 has an underlying condition...some have multiple issues.

 

[RU-05]

No..its about normalizing masks in non corona times

If you are sick stay home away from the public

But you know its not about the sick wearing..you know what will be suggested ..just wait

So you think that mask wearing, by those with a cold, is a bad thing? A sign of an overbearing gov't?

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

1) China and WHO deserve blame in this crisis
2) What arrives on our doorstep from overseas is our responsibility to manage, and there must be accountability at home for the outcome between our shores.
3) I’m not going to address the head coach / coordinators thing again, I did so earlier in this thread. All I’ll say is that you have no evidence the right plays are being called; the evidence we do have, what the President has put in the public record himself, suggests the opposite.

We'll have agree to disagree on #3. Considering how deeply the chicomvirus had silently seeded in the U.S. during Jan-Feb, the plays we have run as described in my Post #2433 are going to win the game for us.

Obviously you have made this political at this point, so I feel justified to ask you to evaluate Biden's "playbook" for dealing with the pandemic--even with 20/20 hindsight-- that he tried to explain recently if, gasp, he is in the WH next January.

 

[brad1218]

So you think that mask wearing, by those with a cold, is a bad thing? A sign of an overbearing gov't?

I can’t believe I am saying this but I somewhat side with bac here. In normal times he is saying if you are sick you should stay home. Masks shouldn’t be necessary because if you know you are sick don’t go to work. The one exception would be if you are going to pick up medicine then wear a mask.

 

[ArminRU]

No..its about normalizing masks in non corona times

If you are sick stay home away from the public

But you know its not about the sick wearing..you know what will be suggested ..just wait

Nobody is saying this will be pushed by the government. But if some people want to wear masks in the future, who cares?

 

[fsg2]

No..its about normalizing masks in non corona times

If you are sick stay home away from the public

But you know its not about the sick wearing..you know what will be suggested ..just wait

Normalized ...like they are in Asia, the place that has handled CV better all along?

What nefarious benefit does anyone gain here? Still waiting ...

 

[RU-05]

I can’t believe I am saying this but I somewhat side with bac here. In normal times he is saying if you are sick you should stay home. Masks shouldn’t be necessary because if you know you are sick don’t go to work. The one exception would be if you are going to pick up medicine then wear a mask.

So we want people with colds to stay in their houses? This is less overbearing then just wanting them to wear masks when they go out?

 

[RU-05]

Nobody is saying this will be pushed by the government. But if some people want to wear masks in the future, who cares?

I'm guessing it rings of political correctness, and we know that many bristle against that pressure.

But I for one think that the days of going out sans mask, while sniffling, coughing and sneezing should be behind us.

 

[RUJohnny]

So you think that mask wearing, by those with a cold, is a bad thing? A sign of an overbearing gov't?

I think it'd be a bad thing. I am not too eager to see Americans slip further into the mental quicksand of collectivism. That was the stepping stone that we crossed to get to the unfortunate sociopolitical climate that we are in today. It's about groups and collections, not about people. America has traditionally been about individuals. I'm not sure if it is anymore. I'm not sure if it will be going forward. So the idea of we > me that is the norm in Asia.... no thanks.

 

[RUkrazy89]

I think it'd be a bad thing. I am not too eager to see Americans slip further into the mental quicksand of collectivism. That was the stepping stone that we crossed to get to the unfortunate sociopolitical climate that we are in today. It's about groups and collections, not about people. America has traditionally been about individuals. I'm not sure if it is anymore. I'm not sure if it will be going forward. So the idea of > me that is the norm in Asia.... no thanks.

Based on the fact that we have 70k cases a day here and can't agree on if wearing a masks is "worth it" (not just for me, but others) pretty sure Americans put themselves before the good of others every time.

 

[RU848789]

More great stuff on masks. Read the whole thread - some solid, albeit anecdotal, evidence in there.

View embedded media

Nice article, thanks. Have discussed this for months in this thread, but never hurts to remind people of the importance of masks for everyone when distancing isn't possible. One of my favorite toxicology books is the now famous (in tox circles, lol), "The Dose Makes the Poison." Just like for toxic chemicals, the viral dose one receives for any respiratory infection can have a major impact on the severity and progression of that infection. This has been shown in many controlled animal studies and even some controlled human studies with benign infections, as per the link - with COVID, such testing would be unethical, however.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

 

[RU848789]

I think it'd be a bad thing. I am not too eager to see Americans slip further into the mental quicksand of collectivism. That was the stepping stone that we crossed to get to the unfortunate sociopolitical climate that we are in today. It's about groups and collections, not about people. America has traditionally been about individuals. I'm not sure if it is anymore. I'm not sure if it will be going forward. So the idea of > me that is the norm in Asia.... no thanks.

I think there's a middle ground, even for those of us who highly value individualism over collectivism (I'm fairly libertarian - more libertarian than leftist on those tests). I've never worn a mask before and have no intention of wearing one after this is over (I also don't go to work when I have the flu, so little risk of infecting others), but I'll wear one during this pandemic every time I'm out in public (and it's obvious keeping distance could be an issue).

In the future, though, one change for me would be that when the next pandemic is looking like it could be underway (say, similar to late January here, when Wuhan was shut down), you can bet your ass I'll start wearing a mask starting on that day. Given the lack of good scientific literature out there on masks when this all started, I didn't start to become a proponent of universal masking until early March. That won't be the case next time. And there will be a next time.

 

[bac2therac]

Normalized ...like they are in Asia, the place that has handled CV better all along?

What nefarious benefit does anyone gain here? Still waiting ...

you mean China who let the virus escape and then lied to the world about it...yes please side with them and be like them..move there too while you are at it.

 

[bac2therac]

I think there's a middle ground, even for those of us who highly value individualism over collectivism (I'm fairly libertarian - more libertarian than leftist on those tests). I've never worn a mask before and have no intention of wearing one after this is over, but I'll wear one during this pandemic every time I'm out in public (and it's obvious keeping distance could be an issue).

In the future, though, one change for me would be that when the next pandemic is looking like it could be underway (say, similar to late January here, when Wuhan was shut down), you can bet your ass I'll start wearing a mask starting on that day. Given the lack of good scientific literature out there on masks when this all started, I didn't start to become a proponent of universal masking until early March. That won't be the case next time. And there will be a next time.

true or not, in all other pandemics masks were not recommended for those that were not sick...Ive seen studies and journals from prior years on masks and what the WHO was recommending

 

[RocktheRac]

Fools if you wear a mask after this is over. We have something called an immune system. People have gotten colds since forever. If you are that bent out of shape stay home if you are worried about giving someone a cold. Wearing masks forever? Im fing rolling on the floor.

 

[fsg2]

you mean China who let the virus escape and then lied to the world about it...yes please side with them and be like them..move there too while you are at it.

Lmao. No, "Asia" and "China" are not synonymous.

I'm much happier here than you, thanks. Maybe you should move ...if you can find a location that's trapped in the 1970s, like your tastes and views. Good luck.

 

[fsg2]

Fools if you wear a mask after this is over. We have something called an immune system. People have gotten colds since forever. If you are that bent out of shape stay home if you are worried about giving someone a cold. Wearing masks forever? Im fing rolling on the floor.

Literally no one said wearing masks forever. You might actually be the dumber brother.

 

[RocktheRac]

Literally no one said wearing masks forever. You might actually be the dumber brother.

People were talking about wearing a mask afterwards. And please say that to my face . Just reading some of your posts. Man ....you must have a 50 lb sledgehammer lodged up your ass. Can you make one post with criticizing one's opinion?

 

[fsg2]

People were talking about wearing a mask afterwards. And please say that to my face .

Yes, not universally and not "forever."

Isn't that your face on your profile, ya mutt.

 

[RocktheRac]

Yes, not universally and not "forever."

Isn't that your face on your profile, ya mutt.

And right on cue.

 

[RU848789]

true or not, in all other pandemics masks were not recommended for those that were not sick...Ive seen studies and journals from prior years on masks and what the WHO was recommending

Every other pandemic was influenza-related and people typically don't start becoming infectious with the flu until the day they have symptoms (or at most, 1 day before), whereas COVID patients can become infectious 2-4 days before symptoms set in and even in asymptomatic patients who never get symptoms. That's a huge difference and why masks are recommended for healthy people, since many "healthy" people can be infected and not know it and transmit it. That was much less unlikely with any flu outbreaks, which is likely why masks were recommended for the symptomatic (and I'm not even sure much was known about asymptomatic flu cases before the last 20 years or so).

 

[rutgersguy1]

128 days in hospital and 51 on ventilator..64 year old man finally returns home.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/us/miracle-larry-leaves-hospital-covid-19-trnd/index.html

 

[fsg2]

People were talking about wearing a mask afterwards. And please say that to my face . Just reading some of your posts. Man ....you must have a 50 lb sledgehammer lodged up your ass. Can you make one post with criticizing one's opinion?

Looking at your posts leads one to believe you have a 50-lb sledgehammer lodged deep in your skull. Can you say anything coherent and factual?

 

[Wolv RU]

Great list by @RutgHoops. The biggest obstacle to universal masking has been the POTUS. He's constantly belittled or mocked people wearing masks and made it clear that he supported those fighting against mask-wearing on "freedom" grounds. He didn't need to issue any executive order to get people to wear masks (although it likely would've helped) - he simply needed to become a champion for mask wearing back in early April when the CDC finally conceded that mask-wearing was a very important way to reduce transmissions.

Most people on the left and in the center already were going that direction, based on the science, but large numbers on the right were not (and happy to see that you see the value, but you're an exception), as shown by that Pew survey I shared last week. Those are the people who listen to Trump and the right wing media over most scientists and he could've made a huge impact on national mask-wearing. As per the article below, if he loses the election, a big part of it will be how he has handled the pandemic, with his lack of support of masking being the most visible element of that (along with all the early downplaying), especially since most people recognize that not going to universal masking prior to reopening is the biggest reason we're seeing the 2nd wave and tens of thousands of lives unnecessarily lost.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/trump-masks-coronavirus/index.html

Mods - this is obviously political, so feel free to delete, but I thought the point needed to be made.

Scientifically, if you are correct, then I'd expect we'd see mainly surges in zip codes that mostly voted for Trump. Is this the case? What neighborhoods are having these flare ups? At least some states are breaking down their cases by zip code so this data should be available.

I'd suggest that isn't what is happening, though I don't know for sure. The mask/no-mask is really much more complicated than your hypothesized political divide. The U.S., for preventable and less-preventable reasons, is in some ways the perfect storm for this virus, starting with the fact that (1) its population is much more susceptible to it due to certain more prevalent health conditions, (2) supplies that come from a hostile country that itself hoarded them at the outset, (3) largely free travel within and through its borders, (4) an election year, (5) distrusted media and government due to a charged political atmosphere, (6) an entire separate huge story in the middle of it that gave the impression that the pandemic was over, and (7) the virus spread being (at least presently) largely caused by those who themselves are not at risk for it. These are really just some of the complicating factors.

Trump has had several predictable missteps in this, especially in messaging, but he wasn't changing any of the above 7 factors in March 2020 no matter what he did.

 

[RU848789]

you mean China who let the virus escape and then lied to the world about it...yes please side with them and be like them..move there too while you are at it.

Ridiculous post. First off, he said Asia, not China, and yes, China behaved very badly, as I've said, but even if China had been fully transparent it would've only delayed the pandemic, not stopped it, since there would've still been hundreds of thousands of people traveling from China to other countries before they could've figured out what was going on with a novel virus and some of them would've been infected and seeded outbreaks everywhere else. Given how badly we responded to the initial outbreak, I have a hard time seeing a different outcome, other than it being delayed by weeks or a month or so.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

you mean China who let the virus escape and then lied to the world about it...yes please side with them and be like them..move there too while you are at it.

Mask wearing had nothing to do with the virus lol. If China figured out that peanut butter and celery prevented and cured Covid, you wouldn’t eat it because they were responsible for the virus in the first place?

Anyways, cultural adoption of masks stretches beyond China. Not saying it will or won’t happen here, but China’s role in the virus’ origin will have nothing to do with people’s mask preferences.

 

[LC-88]

A federal mandate for masks would be challenged constitutionally. A health issue mandate like this is clearly under the constitutional purview of the states, and obviously more readily implemented at that level. And I don't have a problem with state/local mandates, but iirc NYC tried it--maybe still has it--but the cops weren't allowed to enforce it. Anyway, face coverings are so basic, commonsense and of such minor effort/inconvenience in this crisis it is embarrassing as a country that some citizens wouldn't comply without a governmental order.

Isn't NY implementing contact tracing (another state health issue)? How is it working out? Is the Fed government not supporting state actions? Which states aren't?

As for PPE, where or what are the specific shortfalls?

The testing in the US is better than anywhere in the world right now. No?

Dr Birx , Redfield and even Fauci have all spoken at press conferences. Fauci is still all over the TV on his own so it's not like nobody hears from him even if he's not part of recent WH pressers.

Your list is fine but it's mostly already being done, other than a national mask mandate for the reasons already pointed out.

Interesting that you bring up The Constitution. Would state imposed travel restrictions run afoul of the interstate commerce clause if the feds wanted to force the issue?

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Great list by @RutgHoops. The biggest obstacle to universal masking has been the POTUS. He's constantly belittled or mocked people wearing masks and made it clear that he supported those fighting against mask-wearing on "freedom" grounds. He didn't need to issue any executive order to get people to wear masks (although it likely would've helped) - he simply needed to become a champion for mask wearing back in early April when the CDC finally conceded that mask-wearing was a very important way to reduce transmissions.

Most people on the left and in the center already were going that direction, based on the science, but large numbers on the right were not (and happy to see that you see the value, but you're an exception), as shown by that Pew survey I shared last week. Those are the people who listen to Trump and the right wing media over most scientists and he could've made a huge impact on national mask-wearing. As per the article below, if he loses the election, a big part of it will be how he has handled the pandemic, with his lack of support of masking being the most visible element of that (along with all the early downplaying), especially since most people recognize that not going to universal masking prior to reopening is the biggest reason we're seeing the 2nd wave and tens of thousands of lives unnecessarily lost.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/trump-masks-coronavirus/index.html

Mods - this is obviously political, so feel free to delete, but I thought the point needed to be made.

Mods-please preserve this post no matter how obviously political it is. It's hilarious. So many laughs. Like why would a certain poster reply to another poster with his pom-poms flying for a different tagged poster that couldn't address any of the so-called points of his supposed "great" post? I mean that "great list" was about as informative and enlightening as Joe Biden's checklist he read off the teleprompter on the Joy Reid show. And then the CNN article supporting all this political groupthink. It's a classic! Congrats ####s.

 

[hoochie302]

you mean China who let the virus escape and then lied to the world about it...yes please side with them and be like them..move there too while you are at it.

Looks like somebody needs a Snickers bar.

 

[RU848789]

Scientifically, if you are correct, then I'd expect we'd see mainly surges in zip codes that mostly voted for Trump. Is this the case? What neighborhoods are having these flare ups? At least some states are breaking down their cases by zip code so this data should be available.

I'd suggest that isn't what is happening, though I don't know for sure. The mask/no-mask is really much more complicated than your hypothesized political divide. The U.S., for preventable and less-preventable reasons, is in some ways the perfect storm for this virus, starting with the fact that (1) its population is much more susceptible to it due to certain more prevalent health conditions, (2) supplies that come from a hostile country that itself hoarded them at the outset, (3) largely free travel within and through its borders, (4) an election year, (5) distrusted media and government due to a charged political atmosphere, (6) an entire separate huge story in the middle of it that gave the impression that the pandemic was over, and (7) the virus spread being (at least presently) largely caused by those who themselves are not at risk for it. These are really just some of the complicating factors.

Trump has had several predictable missteps in this, especially in messaging, but he wasn't changing any of the above 7 factors in March 2020 no matter what he did.

I was certainly oversimplifying things, since the info you mentioned is unlikely to be readily available. I also am not sure it would help much, since our states, cities and counties aren't monoliths with regard to political party. Plenty of Trump supporters in the cities and plenty of lefties in the country. And it only takes a modest subset of the population in any area not wearing masks and congregating in groups (especially indoors) to lead to outbreaks.

Plus a variable I didn't mention, but probably should have, is age: far more younger people, independent of party are not following masking guidance, since the young often don't want to listen to "authority" anyway, plus they know they're not at much risk. My larger point remains, though, that I think far more people would be wearing masks if the POTUS had been a strong champion for them from day one (or at least since early April, when the CDC came out for them).

Also, I have no great disagreement on your 7 points (minor quibbles maybe, but not worth arguing here), but, as I've said hundreds of times now, the biggest factor enabling our horrific start to the pandemic was the lack of testing. No tests at all in NY/NJ through 3/3 and less than 1000 per day through mid-March, by which time we had tens of thousands, if not over 100,000 infected people participating in the most densely populated/most dense commuting culture in the US, at least (with, by far, the biggest influx of infected people from Europe in the US), prior to things starting to shut down on 3/16. If we had the testing we needed in place, we'd have seen similar numbers 2 weeks earlier and likely could've shut down 2 weeks earlier and avoided 75-90% of cases/deaths.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Interesting that you bring up The Constitution. Would state imposed travel restrictions run afoul of the interstate commerce clause if the feds wanted to force the issue?

Hmmm...do the state travel restrictions apply to business/commerce activities? My guess is a nonbusiness out-of-state visitor would be subject to the state restrictions (i.e. vacationer, visiting relatives, personal). I would probably have to defer to a pro like @camdenlawprof for clarifications.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

I was certainly oversimplifying things, since the info you mentioned is unlikely to be readily available. I also am not sure it would help much, since our states, cities and counties aren't monoliths with regard to political party. Plenty of Trump supporters in the cities and plenty of lefties in the country. And it only takes a modest subset of the population in any area not wearing masks and congregating in groups (especially indoors) to lead to outbreaks.

Plus a variable I didn't mention, but probably should have, is age: far more younger people, independent of party are not following masking guidance, since the young often don't want to listen to "authority" anyway, plus they know they're not at much risk. My larger point remains, though, that I think far more people would be wearing masks if the POTUS had been a strong champion for them from day one (or at least since early April, when the CDC came out for them).

Also, I have no great disagreement on your 7 points (minor quibbles maybe, but not worth arguing here), but, as I've said hundreds of times now, the biggest factor enabling our horrific start to the pandemic was the lack of testing. No tests at all in NY/NJ through 3/3 and less than 1000 per day through mid-March, by which time we had tens of thousands, if not over 100,000 infected people participating in the most densely populated/most dense commuting culture in the US, at least (with, by far, the biggest influx of infected people from Europe in the US), prior to things starting to shut down on 3/16. If we had the testing we needed in place, we'd have seen similar numbers 2 weeks earlier and likely could've shut down 2 weeks earlier and avoided 75-90% of cases/deaths.

How have you assured yourself that NY/NJ/CT would have all those tests completed and results fully available for the tri-state governors to implement the appropriate shelter-in-place strategies in your hypothetical scenario to avoid 75-90% of cases/deaths?

 

[RUevolution36]

I can’t believe I am saying this but I somewhat side with bac here. In normal times he is saying if you are sick you should stay home. Masks shouldn’t be necessary because if you know you are sick don’t go to work. The one exception would be if you are going to pick up medicine then wear a mask.

While most would agree in principle re: staying home when sick, think of all the inconsiderate jagoffs who show up at work with a full blown flu or bronchitis or strep because they think the world will end if they don't show up to the workplace. Then tell everyone that they're not sick, they just have a sniffle or the heat is just bothering them.

 

[bac2therac]