Holiday tourneys

[ruinac]

For the sake of argument let‘s assume RU goes 10-10 in the B1G next year. Would you rather have an OOC with two games against only two majors and a bunch of patsies, or 4-5 majors?

Go 0-2 and you‘re out of the dance. 1-1 is a maybe. You have to go 2-0. I‘d rather give myself the chance to to 3-2 or 3-1.

 

[RU72]

For the sake of argument let‘s assume RU goes 10-10 in the B1G next year. Would you rather have an OOC with two games against only two majors and a bunch of patsies, or 4-5 majors?

Go 0-2 and you‘re out of the dance. 1-1 is a maybe. You have to go 2-0. I‘d rather give myself the chance to to 3-2 or 3-1.

Can we may try to nuance the narrative that the Big Ten is a gauntlet or even more strange the toughest league in the country. It is neither. There are some undoubtedly difficult venues in which to compete. There are also 2 patsies in Nebraska and Minnesota and no matter what some opine about the portal,Penn State will be way down from last season. I would argue that the middle is stronger than all but the Big 12, but that the very top is not nearly at the level of the Big 12,SEC or Big East.At some point no matter how random the tourney is and it is random and luck is certainly at play,the performances in 21,22 and 23 needs to be viewed as a body of work subject to serious scrutiny. With that in mind and a strong possibility that 8 bids will be the norm,you can't afford 6-0 against 6 patsies from 300-350. Not a sustainable model in my opinion.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Can we may try to nuance the narrative that the Big Ten is a gauntlet or even more strange the toughest league in the country. It is neither. There are some undoubtedly difficult venues in which to compete. There are also 2 patsies in Nebraska and Minnesota and no matter what some opine about the portal,Penn State will be way down from last season. I would argue that the middle is stronger than all but the Big 12, but that the very top is not nearly at the level of the Big 12,SEC or Big East.At some point no matter how random the tourney is and it is random and luck is certainly at play,the performances in 21,22 and 23 needs to be viewed as a body of work subject to serious scrutiny. With that in mind and a strong possibility that 8 bids will be the norm,you can't afford 6-0 against 6 patsies from 300-350. Not a sustainable model in my opinion.

Totally agree AND we're getting better players, so let's play a better schedule

 

[rubigtimenow]

Maybe to Pike’s home. Or a teammate’s home. Or out with friends. They’re 20 years old. At that age most of them would be just as happy to share Thanksgiving dinner with the whole team in a destination city. It’s usually the parents who want the college kids home for Thanksgiving. Many kids who I’ve known, who went out of state for college, stopped coming home for Thanksgiving after freshman year.

These kids you’ve known…. were they high level D1 athletes that miss almost all “family” activities for about 9 months out of the year?

 

[e5fdny]

Win those patsy conference games (Minny and Nebraska) this past season and the thread has a different tone.

 

[ruinac]

These kids you’ve known…. were they high level D1 athletes that miss almost all “family” activities for about 9 months out of the year?

Yes, a couple were D1 athletes. A few more were D2.

 

[ruinac]

Win those patsy conference games (Minny and Nebraska) this past season and the thread has a different tone.

I’m not one to keep writing the same thing 100 times but I’ve been consistent in saying that our OOC schedule has left us with little room for error every year. This year it finally bit us in the ass. My opinion on that would not have changed had we beaten Minny and gone to Dayton.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Maybe to Pike’s home. Or a teammate’s home. Or out with friends. They’re 20 years old. At that age most of them would be just as happy to share Thanksgiving dinner with the whole team in a destination city. It’s usually the parents who want the college kids home for Thanksgiving. Many kids who I’ve known, who went out of state for college, stopped coming home for Thanksgiving after freshman year.

I think both has occurred. Pike makes sure they have a place.

 

[bac2therac]

People are looking to blame our schedule for not getting in to the tournament. We had too many losses, plain and simple.

You are wrong about the NBA, but you are 100% right here.

Our ooc sucked and the committee said as much. If there was a win over Texas in there Ru would dance

 

[bac2therac]

This is insane

There are multiple posters continuing to be fine with a non conference sos of
320 every year

What the ****

 

[RUInsanity]

But we aren't beating them. We are losing with a terrible OOC.

22-23: We lost to SHU, Temple, Miami.
21-22: We lost to Layafette and UMass.
20-21: No losses but only 4 game OCC
19-20: We lost to St. Bonaventure and Pitt (13th ACC).

Doesn't matter how much you upgrade if we keep losing to bad teams.

Setting previous years aside,

Miami was not a bad loss....especially away.

SHU is like a rivalry game so there will always be extra juice and unpredictable outcomes.

Temple was not a game we should have played at a neutral site in the middle of nowhere.

To me the problem is notnthese 3 games, its too many of the Coppin St / Central Conn. St / Columbia type games in a single season.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I say this every year, but we should be hosting a "NYC Championship" Christmas tournament at MSG with invites going out to local teams like St. Johns, Seton Hall, Syracuse, Iona, Sienna, Manhattan, St. Bonaventure, etc. Vignettes of the Rutgers team in front of the Christmas Tree at 30 Rock, or with the Rockettes, or getting food in Little Italy, or posing for photos with the Knicks, or walking around Times Square played coming in and out of television time outs is how you brand a school like ours as "NYC's team."

 

[ScarletKid2008]

I think the lack of a holiday tournament over the many years is holding back RUs brand . These games are on ESPN and the like during a highly watched TV time of the year.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

We are arguing two different things here

The schedule model we should have after next year when we go to 22 league games
Is


11 big ten home games
11 big ten road games
Seton hall home and home
Power 6 home and home opposite of seton hall
Power 6 game at MSG
6 RAC bought home games

Just get the RAC power games not to be all 300 plus games and make sure we get one of the two game not names Seton hall to be legit …

And if going to the Bahamas replaced the game in the garden and the other power 6 game …that’s okay

You don’t need more than this

Personally …I’m done with the hall . Even if we win the next few, it’s past it’s importance .

That’s the game to sacrifice to get in the tourneys , and get in the garden

 

[e5fdny]

I’m not one to keep writing the same thing 100 times but I’ve been consistent in saying that our OOC schedule has left us with little room for error every year. This year it finally bit us in the ass. My opinion on that would not have changed had we beaten Minny and gone to Dayton.

Dayton is still not the NIT.

It’s not so much the OCC, it’s not winning every OCC and the conference games you should win…especially when up by double digits.

 

[rubigtimenow]

We are arguing two different things here

The schedule model we should have after next year when we go to 22 league games
Is


11 big ten home games
11 big ten road games
Seton hall home and home
Power 6 home and home opposite of seton hall
Power 6 game at MSG
6 RAC bought home games

Just get the RAC power games not to be all 300 plus games and make sure we get one of the two game not names Seton hall to be legit …

And if going to the Bahamas replaced the game in the garden and the other power 6 game …that’s okay

You don’t need more than this

Personally …I’m done with the hall . Even if we win the next few, it’s past it’s importance .

That’s the game to sacrifice to get in the tourneys , and get in the garden

I was with you fully until you mentioned dropping seton hall.
Biggest rivalry we have (in any sport?). Legendary and I do mean legendary games against them in the past 25 years. Without a doubt this game should be played every year.

 

[njxchange]

if we win the games we are suppose to win, we dance...
We couldnt even beat Minn. who had to suit up their waterboys and bandaid guys for the game because all their players were out. Its same story every year... Dont matter if we play strong or non strong OCC, lets win our winable games before saying we didnt make it because of schedule... or schedule is killing us... blah blah
We need to get over this hump and we can rise to being consistent top #25 team

 

[bac2therac]

The schedule is horrible and the committee is basically saying its horrible

 

[MCKnight2004]

Charleston classic has an opening according to rothstein tweet tonight, no big ten team in it, do it Pike

LSU
Houston
St. Johns
Utah
Dayton
North Texas
Towson
TBD

 

[biazza38]

Let me just say, I want to see RU up their OOC schedule, but not with these early season tournaments. These tournaments absolutely blow. There’s maybe 3 of them where people show up. There’s zero atmosphere in almost all of them. You play back to back days and you know RU is gonna get screwed with their opponents
You then come home all out of wack, just primed to be picked off by a lesser opponent. Up the OOC schedule, but I’d stay clear of these uneventful tournaments

 

[FinalFourOrBust]

90% of all other high major schools have no problem dealing with the scheduling of these tournaments but I guess Rutgers isn’t capable of being one of them

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The schedule is horrible and the committee is basically saying its horrible

They are saying don’t lose to quad 3 teams. Not don’t schedule them

 

[bitnez]

90% of all other high major schools have no problem dealing with the scheduling of these tournaments but I guess Rutgers isn’t capable of being one of them

This . Everyone plays in them except us.

 

[shields]

Just think if Miami game had been home and we won that game. That game bugs me because 3 games we played down there.

 

[bac2therac]

Charleston classic has an opening according to rothstein tweet tonight, no big ten team in it, do it Pike

LSU
Houston
St. Johns
Utah
Dayton
North Texas
Towson
TBD

Yes please

 

[bac2therac]

They are saying don’t lose to quad 3 teams. Not don’t schedule them

320

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

320

Did you use those 2.5 lb weights?

Do you honestly think we make the tournament the last 2 years with a tougher OOC?

If we replaced Seton Hall with Rider on our schedule last year I’ll bet we would have made the NCAAs

 

[MiloTalon13]

Did you use those 2.5 lb weights?

Do you honestly think we make the tournament the last 2 years with a tougher OOC?

If we replaced Seton Hall with Rider on our schedule last year I’ll bet we would have made the NCAAs

Rider finished at 206 on Kenpom
CCSU = 339, Coumbia = 340, Sacred Heart=326, Coppin St = 338, Bucknell 303
It's absurd to have 5 games like that, I can see 1 or 2 as first two games but 5?
Not just for NCAA purposes, but what does the team get out of playing that many non-competitive games?

 

[rutgershoopsinsider]

2019-20 Bryant(NEC) Niagara(MAAC) Drexel(CAA)
2020-21 Sacred Heart(NEC) FDU(NEC) Hofstra(CAA)
2021-22 Lehigh(Pat) Merrimack(NEC) NJIT(AEC)
2022-23 Columbia(Ivy) Sacred Heart(NEC) UMass Lowell(AEC)
This is how we have opened the last 4 years.

Maybe we should have a prediction thread on which 3 teams he will pick in this year's exempt home tournament after we wait too long on one of these neutral court tournaments.

It looks like he will pick an NEC team, their headquarters are in Somerset, NJ.
Another team that probably loses a lot of seniors/portal or a young team.
And get a little challenge in the third game.

Likely it will open with with low rated NEC, Ivy, Pat, or AEC teams

 

[rutgershoopsinsider]

Rider finished at 206 on Kenpom
CCSU = 339, Coumbia = 340, Sacred Heart=326, Coppin St = 338, Bucknell 303
It's absurd to have 5 games like that, I can see 1 or 2 as first two games but 5?
Not just for NCAA purposes, but what does the team get out of playing that many non-competitive games?

Nothing, they serve as tune up games for Pikiell to get a feel for the roster.

 

[bac2therac]

Did you use those 2.5 lb weights?

Do you honestly think we make the tournament the last 2 years with a tougher OOC?

If we replaced Seton Hall with Rider on our schedule last year I’ll bet we would have made the NCAAs

i dont know maybe it makes us better....you do realize that in any case we are getting in the tourney by the seat of our pants...and have no non conference wins of note when the committee is screaming non conference matters but resist

 

[ruinac]

Nothing, they serve as tune up games for Pikiell to get a feel for the roster.

I’m glad we have Pike. He’s done a great job. But I would love to hear his answer to this question - what is unique about RU or your coaching methods that RU/you need more patsies than anyone else to be able decide on your player rotations?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

i dont know maybe it makes us better....you do realize that in any case we are getting in the tourney by the seat of our pants...and have no non conference wins of note when the committee is screaming non conference matters but resist

It is small, but it is another game where we are playing extended minutes. It is my belief we ask more from our players than other programs.

Did you get my 320 joke? I think only way you can lift 320 is with 2 2.5s

 

[RUJMM78]

Nothing, they serve as tune up games for Pikiell to get a feel for the roster.

Playing perceived easy opponents doesn't give a real measure of the roster.It gives a false measure that the team is better than they really are.Competing in a tournament against opponents with higher level talent will give a far better indication of team strength and weakness .

 

[njxchange]

I'm sure there is alot more thought process than just booking any easy opponents.

Remember, we werent picking up 4/5 star guys. we were picking up guys that was under recruited but Pike believed in them. They still need to be battle tested before going up against teams with 4/5 star guys.

I believe Pike will start upgrading OCC as we start collecting 4/5 stars as recruits. Pike is a lot smarter than we think or we dont think. Reason why he is a college coach and we are all bunch of internet dorks... lol

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

They are saying don’t lose to quad 3 teams. Not don’t schedule them

Except we’ve sucked worse than against Q1s against them historically so in our case - if we’re only putting 4 real games on the calendar it would serve us better not to pick a Temple with no chance at the NCAAs and a Wake that wasn’t projected to be good in a rebuild year for SHU (where they are coming to us). Just doesn’t seem smart. May as well make those 4 games against the best so that if we win one, it’s a signature win.

I’m against removing the SHU game at all costs so I’ll deal with whatever they turn out like competition wise. It will fluctuate and that’s fine. Every major conference team should maintain an in state rivalry game. Getting rid of that would be foolish in my opinion.

 

[e5fdny]

Except we’ve sucked worse than against Q1s against them historically so in our case - if we’re only putting 4 real games on the calendar it would serve us better not to pick a Temple with no chance at the NCAAs and a Wake that wasn’t projected to be good in a rebuild year for SHU (where they are coming to us). Just doesn’t seem smart. May as well make those 4 games against the best so that if we win one, it’s a signature win.

I’m against removing the SHU game at all costs so I’ll deal with whatever they turn out like competition wise. It will fluctuate and that’s fine. Every major conference team should maintain an in state rivalry game. Getting rid of that would be foolish in my opinion.

+1

It’s not so much the opponent as compared to the results…win the games you’re supposed to.

 

[RUBlackout]

+1

It’s not so much the opponent as compared to the results…win the games you’re supposed to.

Exactly win the games you are supposed to win!!! End of story

Had we played a few tougher opponents than some of the lower ranked teams we played we prob add a few more losses and then we are all up in arms over our record and if that will hold us out. Look at Michigan this year--they had bulky losses and a mediocre record

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Except we’ve sucked worse than against Q1s against them historically so in our case - if we’re only putting 4 real games on the calendar it would serve us better not to pick a Temple with no chance at the NCAAs and a Wake that wasn’t projected to be good in a rebuild year for SHU (where they are coming to us). Just doesn’t seem smart. May as well make those 4 games against the best so that if we win one, it’s a signature win.

I’m against removing the SHU game at all costs so I’ll deal with whatever they turn out like competition wise. It will fluctuate and that’s fine. Every major conference team should maintain an in state rivalry game. Getting rid of that would be foolish in my opinion.

I here you, but there is no way you know how a team is going to be when you schedule them.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Exactly win the games you are supposed to win!!! End of story

Had we played a few tougher opponents than some of the lower ranked teams we played we prob add a few more losses and then we are all up in arms over our record and if that will hold us out. Look at Michigan this year--they had bulky losses and a mediocre record

I’m in complete agreement about leaving the Q4s alone. That’s fine.

For whatever reason though, Q3s have never been automatic for us. I think it’s the style we play where we will win a higher percentage than average against Q1s but also lose more often to Q3s. Strong defense gives you a chance against the best but also puts you at risk when mediocre teams simply get hot from long range and you can’t match the offense (or you play another strong defense and their offense on that given day is just a little better - see SHU).

Whatever the reason - history says our strategy should be to schedule the best 3 opponents we can find plus SHU. Temple and Wake don’t fit this blueprint,