At this point, Greg's ego would love to turn this program around. The argument could be made that Rutgers is perceived to be even worse now, than when he took it over in 2001.
I’ll relent on Schiano
- Thread starter vkj91
- Start date
6 win ceiling? C'mon, even Flood won 8 with Greg's players in our first year in the B1G.
He may find a way to 8 wins every 4-5 years or so but he will be a 5-7 win guy on the norm.
To be fair that is most likely the ceiling for ANY coach we bring in unless we are going to steal away a Myer type guy. If Schiano came here and got us to 8 wins I think his recruiting with the big ten behind him would go through the roof.
How can you say 5-7 win seasons without any evidence to back it up?
Schiano has a proven track record of beating Big 10 teams when he was recruiting the Big East. He went 3-0 against B10 opponents (Maryland in Acc at the time, Illinois, and Michigan State) from 2005 forward.
A Schiano led team would certainly lose some wtf games to the lower half of the league, but he would be able to pull off some wtf wins. His teams were always ready for the big games.
Schiano has a proven track record of beating Big 10 teams when he was recruiting the Big East. He went 3-0 against B10 opponents (Maryland in Acc at the time, Illinois, and Michigan State) from 2005 forward.
A Schiano led team would certainly lose some wtf games to the lower half of the league, but he would be able to pull off some wtf wins. His teams were always ready for the big games.
His 06-09 teams could have been respectable in any conference. Quite honestly, it was his coaching that helped us get there but also stopped us from taking that next step. I will also say that during many of those years, the BE was very top heavy and the bottom half were never real slouches either. But, the conference lacked Great HC’s.
What makes his ceiling higher this time?
The 2006 team was a 10 win team no matter where they played and the 07-09 teams were 7-8 win teams if they played in this conference.
I'd say the norm would be 6-8 wins with a peak of 9 or 10 every 6-8 yrs. I'm good. Can he start tonight?
Get to 5-7 wins regularly and you can recruit a bit better and maybe you go to 6-8 wins and then you can recruit a bit better and all of a suddent you can compete with almost anyone on any given day.
Going to a bowl pretty much EVERY year. Remember those days?
There is no other coach that can hype Rutgers like Schiano. Coaching 40% and Recruiting 60% is needed.
He also had 4 OOC games then (1 FCS, WSU and Tulane (both 3-9 that year), and Navy) and a "so bad the coach got fired" year from Michigan. We almost managed to knock off a scholarship-reduced Nitwit team, too, but blew it.
Schiano games against current B1G teams:
2009 @ Maryland (2-10) - W
2007 vs. Maryland (6-7) - L
2006 vs. Illinois (2-10) - W
2005 @ Illinois (2-9) - L
2004 vs. MSU (5-7) - W
2003 @ MSU (8-5) - L
Overall (3-3)
vs. teams with winning records (0-1)
vs. teams with more than 2 wins (1-2)
You got me. Thought we won that Maryland game in 2007 and didn't remember some of those other games. Was working off of memory and not actual research.
You just proved my point that 7-8 wins should be doable most years under Schiano, not 6. No reason Schiano wouldn't be expected to assemble teams as good as in those years or his last year and Flood's first couple of years.
If we don't get another win by the end of October, he should be off the sideline by Wisky.
No, but assuming the admin reads the board, they would know that is the first time (I've been here since 07) that this board has basically agreed on
1) The coach (Ash) should be canned
2) On a replacement (GS)
Which is saying something because no one here can agree on anything.
Seems very Ash-like right now. Also Schiano had quite a few wtf loses such as UWV, Buffa-Nova and UNH. Ash is piling those up now. Eerie similarities.
Bro you’re way too emotionally connected to this. You just said his ceiling is 6 wins and then followed it up by saying from 2006-2009 his teams would be anywhere from 7-10 wins.
And you need to stop thinking Rutgers is taking that next step. We are not. You need to have years and years and years of success like Schiano was building before you take the next step.
A lot of selective memory on this board as it relates to Greg Schiano. Big games?
Schiano's RU teams went 4-18 vs. T25 opponents.
Here's the list of Big East and major conference teams that Schiano beat that finished the season with a winning record:
2006 USF, Louisville, Kansas State
2007 USF
2008 UConn, Pitt, USF
2009 UConn, USF
2010 UConn
2011 Cincinnati
That's it. That's the entire list. Know how many of those teams finished the season with 10+ wins? Two. In 11 years at Rutgers, Schiano won only three games against teams that (a) finished that season above .500 and (b) are currently in a P5 league.
In his career at RU against teams that today are in P5 leagues, Schiano went 22-46.
This too looks Ash-like at this point on the trajectory. I think the biggest issue is Flood was Terry Shea, Part Deux.
Schiano cleaned up against weak competition--although even there sometimes he had his baffling losses. On the flip side, we never had wtf upsets over better teams except one time. Schiano at the helm means being permanently lodged in the second tier of the Big Ten East just like we were permanently lodged in the second tier of the Big East. So many of these posters are remembering things as being so much better than they were, including in-state recruiting where even after 2006 he struggled and sometimes did downright terribly.
Just looking at our 2018 schedule.... I don't think we need Urban Meyer to beat Tx St, Kans, Buff, Indy, Illinois, MD, and NorthW.
The top of our schedule is rough, but there's plenty of winnable games on there too. Not to mention, we've dropped (or are in the process of dropping) every decent team on our OOC schedule.
2019 Schedule
UMass
Liberty
BC
MD
Illinois
Minn
Indiana
Iowa
MSU
Michigan
PSU
OSU
Yea plenty of fawning over years where most of the time this board was ready to send him packing.
I usually defended him, because as frustrating as his WTF losses were, I feared something like this season would happen. Basically full stadium, winning bowl games, things weren't bad. I understand that "In Year 10", as they always said, we expected to take a step to really contend for BCS games, but at least we weren't a national punchline.
By the time Greg left there were many RU Fans tired of winning enough to go to a bowl, but not enough for a good one.
There was a vocal he must go just before he left and claims of being overpaid and a micro-manager were being thrown at Schiano and the years without making a BCS bowl
I was a big fan of Greg because of the way he made RU FB a respected program from the joke it was when he took over, but even I was getting impatient when it came to his not being able to move Rutgers from a minor bowl program into one that could be expected to make a BCS bowl game on a constant bases.
Now I think it might be time to give Schiano another shot, but doubt he'll be available when Hobbs is given the green light to buy Ash out.
I feel that will be after the 2020 season.
Barchi isn't going to pay for a buyout of 3 years and I doubt boosters will put in enough to convince him.
We were weak competition! We were perennial losers! It took Schiano about 5-6 years before it looked like we would actually make it out of the woods. Some people on this board think he inherideted a top 20 program.He did a great job selling and building the brand.But we sucked Big Time!!!
Cleaning up on weak competition? That's a joke right?
Agree. Once he turned it around from 2005 on he was right around 500 against current p5 teams counting bowls. We were consistently a 30-40 ranked team with two outliers one bad one good. That was recruiting in the big east throwing out stats counting the first four years are just fing stupid. Oh and Guess what when you are an 8-9 win team you don’t beat a lot of teams with winning records. If you do your a 10-11 win team ranked in the top 15 or so. Math is hard.
From 2005-2011, Schiano's teams went 4-7 against T25 teams and 19-21 against teams that are currently in P5 leagues. Keep in mind, of those 19 wins, only three came against teams that finished with a winning record (Louisville and Kansas State in 2006, Pitt in 2008).
The bottom line on Schiano as a head coach is that he deserves a ton of credit for the way he brought RU to respectability, but he never really accomplished anything tangible. And that was in a watered down Big East. Given RU's current conference situation, an argument could be made that if Schiano were to take the job now, he'd actually be facing a tougher situation than in 2001.
This is 100% spot-on. Greg has his flaws, but so does the "opportunity" we offer any potential candidate. If we are being honest with ourselves, we are not doing better than him.
This is not accurate. With maybe the exception of the wild knight year very few were dissatisfied with Schiano and he was on the verge of signing his best class when he suddenly left. Vast majority of fans were not happy he left.
perception that RU is one of the worst power five programs in country currently?
Maybe you're right but I remember a lot of posts on this board complaining about Schiano being a micromanager and how it was hurting the program, then there were the accusations of Greg being a poor gameday coach.
Also charges were made he wasn't worth the salary he was making compared to the results being shown by the team. Lack of championships and BCS Bowl games were reasons given for results not reaching the heights expected.
I agree with the way miketd put Schiano's support when he left ,but also agree most ( if not all ) were pissed he left.
Some who wanted him to leave were pissed because of the timing of his exit.
Others because they felt he would get it done and make RU a top program
To say he never accomplished anything tangible is beyond idiotic. Are you a penn state troll or another weirdo that gets banned and comes back periodically or just an idiot.
Idiotic? Schiano won a share of one conference title after Miami, Virginia Tech, etc. had left the Big East. He won Texas, International, PapaJohns.com, St. Petersburg and Pinstripe bowls. And he only finished one season ranked in the top 25. What am I missing? Because that's not exactly a Hall of Fame resume.
Like I said, I give him credit for the way he was able to sell high school kids on Rutgers and build the program to a level where it was respectable. He's also a good defensive coach. But he is an average at best head coach who would struggle to get Rutgers over that six- or seven-win hump on any sort of consistent basis in the B1G East.
In my opinion RU needs to do one of two things to make significant progress: (a) invest immensely in the program once the B1G full share kicks in and not use that money simply to offset the subsidy, and in doing so hire a proven head coach that will be able to recruit high-level talent in NJ and the Mid-Atlantic; or more likely, (b) identify a young, up-and-coming offensive mind to install a system that can get those same recruits excited and be effective enough to give elite programs problems on any given Saturday. With the former, there really is no ceiling; the latter still can result in consistent bowl games and sometimes more, whereas Schiano would be a short-term fix that likely yields mediocrity.
I don't completely disagree with a lot of this. And I am not the biggest Schiano fan, I think I have fallen more into line with the OP and say I'll relent and take Schiano. I did not want him after Flood because I though there were several available coaches who would have brought us forward and looked like they were ready for success (Ash is not one of the guys I liked because I wanted an offensive head coach whose expertise gives us a schematic advantage where he is able to do more with less). However, we are not in the same place now as we were several years ago. Now, more than ever, we need to dance with the devil we know. I think level-headed people can see the clear floor-to-ceiling range that would come with Schiano at the helm. I don't think there's too much uncertainty with how it would go and I think it would stabilize this program and move us in a positivie direction, both in football terms and in publicity terms (in NJ and in national football media).
Yes, I would still love the young up and coming offensive mind that will catapult us to the other end of offensive statistics and would put us in spots to pull off the upsets we crave. But right now, this program can't afford another miss. I don't know that the 'big name' G5 coaches are coming here (Brown, Norvell, Littrell), maybe Satterfield (whom I love but think is going to stay south) and maybe Candle (whom I also like very much)...but otherwise we're looking at Offensive Coordinators and I don't know that we can afford another couple years of learning on the job. Even if it's a risk we can take, who is it gonna be that is ready to be a head coach at Rutgers? Jake Spavital might make some sense, he was a finalist for Cal when they hired Wilcox. Otherwise, I think many of those kinds of guys that were around a couple of years ago have gotten to their first job and not sure they're ready to move on or displayed they're ready to be a B1G head coach.
Agree with this. After extending Ash it makes sense that Hobbs wants to keep Ash for at least a few more years. Fans can vote by their attendance the rest of the season.
Ash needs a W in a big way soon.
The counter argument is... Greg Schiano wasn't a good enough game-day coach. The guys you know are a bunch of fools if they think this is as good as it gets in the state of New Jersey.
Similar threads
