Pretty obvious to anyone with a clue. Kids are much more often than not in position to make plays.
In those critical moments, they don't. Or the other team makes a better one. All about talent.
If you have any doubts as to where the problem lies
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Pretty obvious to anyone with a clue. Kids are much more often than not in position to make plays.
In those critical moments, they don't. Or the other team makes a better one. All about talent.
Moose is absolutely certain that if we had Al Golden, our OL would be splitting the Heisman trophy between them by now. :)
Nuts, read somewhere that Cole is grading well at LT. Others on this board may be able to chime in as to how real that may be. However, LG and RG may be more the issue. Just seeing plays they seem to get destroyed on the interior. As for TEs, blocking is not their strength and without a FB, its getting the QB and RBs killed.
Biggest issues are our guards. They have played very badly all year.
Cole replaced Lumpkin and has been our best OL all season. Our OL problems are not from losing Lumpkin. As stated by gef, guard play has been a struggle all year. Here is a quote from PFF recently:
There hasn’t been a lot of positives for Rutgers this season but this is Cole’s second time on the Team of the Week as he had a clean day on 37 pass protection snaps while grading well as a run blocker.
This is the reason I believe it is an option play. We purposely leave 94 unblocked.
Muller has struggled all year. Gef do you think it is physical problem or he is having trouble with the new scheme.
I personally think he is struggling with the scheme. His step is very slow and had his face crossed a lot this year. He also was not where he needed to be on pulling. He also would allow his feet to die on contact and the DL would get penetration off of him. Maybe he is hurt? Maybe he put on too much weight? To me it just seemed like he has struggled with out blocking scheme all year.
Agree regarding Muller. Not necessarily a bad lineman, but rather not adjusted to this scheme. Miller is more puzzling as I thought we would do well in this scheme. How does his play grade? Would he be better suited for Center next year where his experience and intelligence can be more effectively leveraged?
I would have to sit down and watch game film to really grade a player out. Like end zone shot and side line shot not zooming in and out like on TV. A slow first step would be very bad at center, in my opinion, but his leadership could be good.
I don't know crap about grading out a player in football. But Miller, who was a wrestler, has a very quick first step. If that's not showing up on game day, then there's some unusual reason for it (injury, discomfort with the scheme, bad habit - I don't know what).
He got beat laterally a lot this season as well as when he pulled. I think he was asked to do some things that he was not comfortable with doing.
Well, pass-catching surely isn't their strength. Perhaps they don't have a strength.
The issue is talent as compared to B1G opponents not just citing the number of 3 star recruits.Position by position there was no discernible evidence that any unit got better as the season progressed and in fact some got far worse.Games are won at the line of scrimmage and Rutgers got man handled both offensively and defensively.The absence of playmakers also is glaring which makes it difficult to stay in games and more importantly win in the forth quarter.
Make all the Al Golden jokes you want. I think it's safe to say our offense wouldn't be dead last in the nation under The Tie.
No it doesn't mean they're poorly coached, it means they need more time and reps until the new schemes become second nature. There's no shortcut to learning a new skill, especially if your roster isn't full of 5* first round picks.
Illinois does not have superior talent and athleticism. Iowa does not have superior talent and athleticism. Same for Minnesota.
Sure, OSU, Michigan, PSU, those guys have better talent, (though I do question if the disparity of the scores of those games is equal to the disparity in talent) we have had a brutal schedule which plays into this mess of a season, but there are games on the schedule in which we match up fairly well in terms of overall talent level.
Iowa has a good qb better lines better linebackers better tight ends better kickers the best safety in the country and a better running back than we have
Wasn't the only lineman we lost from last year was Lumpkin ? How do you return 4 starters on the OL and the Offense goes from Average in FBS to dead last .....128 out of 128. You guys are giving the OC to much of a break. He is accountable for this mess.o
And our Offense last year ranked higher than PSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Maryland, and Purdue. No way the loss of only Lumpkin and Carroo sends this Offense to the rock bottom.
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Offense was below average. 82nd and that was with caroo and grant Bergen and lumpkin. Against good defenses the offense was horrible.
RU's OL has seemingly under-preformed for years and this season is no exception.
For those saying it's lack of talent , you're probably right but: how much blame should AJ get for the way RU's OL is playing under him? Is it that he can't coach them to play above their talent and provide decent blocking, or that no matter what he tries the talent they face is too much for them to handle no matter what Blaze tries to teach them?
For those saying it's lack of talent , you're probably right but: how much blame should AJ get for the way RU's OL is playing under him? Is it that he can't coach them to play above their talent and provide decent blocking, or that no matter what he tries the talent they face is too much for them to handle no matter what Blaze tries to teach them?
Could be. He was one of the brighter spots on the OL last season, but has struggled some this season for sure.
Impossible to know. So for now, I will stick to the Al Golden jokes. Who knows, in a few years, you might be proven right about Ash. But Al Golden ain't never coming here (thank God).
I think it was 2009... despite having several OL who would later go on to play in the NFL we put up only 130 total yards to a 3-7 Syracuse team playing a lot of 2nd stringers having just booted a bunch of players.
Got that? They were 3-7 and we were 7-3 when we played them. And we had just shut out a ranked USF team, 31-0.
That Syracuse team exposed the Rutgers offense... created by co-OC Flood btw. The zone-blocking scheme of never firing out, just standing the turning defenders to create points of attack.. it denied our OL its advantage in drive-blocking. That Syracuse team showed that a defense that attacked to a spot 5 yards behind center.. would arrive just in time to see a hand-off or a pass.. by a QB whose back was to the LOS most of the time... no time to see who would be open when he turned around.
It was a ridiculous scheme that never punished a defense for run/pass blitzing and did not give the RBs, QBs or OL anything to help them win their battles. And that was with an OL who could block.
So, no, I do not trust that this offense is failing because the OL cannot block. I think the scheme and play-calling doesn't help the OL and I don't think practice is effective because no one seems to execute well. How much of the OL's failures are not being coached up properly? Yeah, we've seen a couple OL get mauled and over-powered.. that's on them. But that is not as much the norm as missing assignments... a lack of execution, a lack of figuring out the blocking scheme pre-snap. That's coaching.
Got that? They were 3-7 and we were 7-3 when we played them. And we had just shut out a ranked USF team, 31-0.
That Syracuse team exposed the Rutgers offense... created by co-OC Flood btw. The zone-blocking scheme of never firing out, just standing the turning defenders to create points of attack.. it denied our OL its advantage in drive-blocking. That Syracuse team showed that a defense that attacked to a spot 5 yards behind center.. would arrive just in time to see a hand-off or a pass.. by a QB whose back was to the LOS most of the time... no time to see who would be open when he turned around.
It was a ridiculous scheme that never punished a defense for run/pass blitzing and did not give the RBs, QBs or OL anything to help them win their battles. And that was with an OL who could block.
So, no, I do not trust that this offense is failing because the OL cannot block. I think the scheme and play-calling doesn't help the OL and I don't think practice is effective because no one seems to execute well. How much of the OL's failures are not being coached up properly? Yeah, we've seen a couple OL get mauled and over-powered.. that's on them. But that is not as much the norm as missing assignments... a lack of execution, a lack of figuring out the blocking scheme pre-snap. That's coaching.
We turned the ball over 5 times against Illinois
Lost to Iowa by 7
Minnesota by 2
You mkaneit like teams will similar talent raped us
Wow - let's get some terminology correct here. Different blocking schemes just means different rules a lineman follows as to who to block under what conditions. Additionally, different schemes may require different gaps between lineman and different percentages of plays where a lineman pulls or pass protects. But in all schemes, all lineman will block the guy over them, or in the play side or back side gap as well as linebackers or blitzing db's. Most of them will pull and all will pass block.
It's the same shit in every scheme, only the rules change. Please stop pretending it's the scheme that these guys can't grasp. If that's the case you are admitting it's coaching. Implementing a new blocking scheme in a new offense is not brain surgery.
For those in the camp that the coaching staff is competent, you might want to change your tune to the OL sucks and get off the complecated scheme crap because that doesn't hold water.
It's the same shit in every scheme, only the rules change. Please stop pretending it's the scheme that these guys can't grasp. If that's the case you are admitting it's coaching. Implementing a new blocking scheme in a new offense is not brain surgery.
For those in the camp that the coaching staff is competent, you might want to change your tune to the OL sucks and get off the complecated scheme crap because that doesn't hold water.
I find this Al Golden love highly amusing. The guy couldn't win with exceptional talent at a selector school.
But he would do well at Rutgers with horrible talent. Makes perfect sense.
But he would do well at Rutgers with horrible talent. Makes perfect sense.
As I stated in a different thread, If Bob Kraft thought that way he wouldn't have hired Hoodie who's last HC gig before that was less than successful. People learn from bad experiences and make adjustments the next time they're given the opportunity. Instead we have a guy with no experience learning on the job and it's painful to watch. It reminds me of Shea or to a lesser extent Rich Rod at Michigan and both of those guys had HC experience.
Golden would have been perfect: Jersey guy with (presumably) FL connections and two HC stints, one successful one not so much. Further we'd still be running a pro stye offense which is our bread an butter. I have no doubt we'd have more than two wins at this point and recruiting would be going just as good if not better.
Hobbs hired a guy who impressed him with a good Power Point presentation. He's inexperienced and got hoodwinked.
Talent or coaching, coaching or talent? Mike Leach does a lot with a little talent at WSU, but it took two 3-9 seasons in his first three years before he started to produce, and put his team in the running for the PAC12 championship.
IT TAKES TIME--GOT IT MOOSE?
Leach's starting OL?
Cole Madison- 3 star, no offers other than WSU
Eduardo Middleton- 3 star, two other P5 offers
Riley Sorenson- 3 star, two other P5 offers
Cody O'Connell- 3 star, no other P5 offers, only other offer was Idaho
Andre Dillard- 3 star, no other P5 offers
Note what the article says below about O'Connell and Dillard-who are the stars of the line--2 guys most of the talent-tards on this board would laugh and scoff at. On this point, why the hell is Tariq Cole our most talented player? Coaching? Talent? Maybe it's personal development and commitment too?
Here is what Pro Football Focus had to say about WSU's OL:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/co...tate-offense-so-dangerous-air-raid-luke-falk/
Arguably the most overlooked aspect of Washington State’s offensive success is the play of its offensive line. Washington State’s offensive line is far and away Pro Football Focus’ highest-graded pass-blocking unit in college football. The rate of hits, sacks and hurries allowed is fantastic, and this is a credit to the large splits they employ along with their patience in pass protection. Here’s an example of their effectiveness in pass protection:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/02/offensive-line-the-key-to-wsus-recent-success/
That counts as effusive praise from a coach who complained during his 2012 debut season at WSU that his offensive line could not handle Utah’s two-man rush, and that his five linemen would get whipped in an alley fight by two of the Utes defensive linemen.
And where this unit has been is what makes part of its dominance so amazing. In Leach’s first year, the Cougars barely had enough offensive linemen to field a team, and they barely weighed enough to be called offensive linemen. This line really is not that far removed from those days.
Center Riley Sorenson saw his first snaps in 2013, just one year after the Utah debacle. Right tackle Cole Madison has been starting since 2014, a year in which the Cougars went 3-9 and saw starting quarterback Connor Halliday’s season end on one of the 36 sacks the team surrendered that year.
Last year the offensive line was good, but it also had a lynchpin player in left tackle Joe Dahl, who now suits up for the NFL’s Detroit Lions. The Cougars also lost his left-side battery mate, guard Gunnar Eklund.
Yet the pair of Andre Dillard and Cody O’Connell have been an undeniable upgrade, so far. Dillard has the athleticism to handle premier rushers, and O’Connell is knocking around defenders in the run game.
Madison, Sorenson and Eduardo Middleton have been starting games for a long time, but are showing that last year’s solid performance was a plateau, not a ceiling.
AND THIS IS AFTER THEIR SEASON OPENER DEBACLE at EWU:
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...e-problems-stemmed-from-communication-issues/
IT TAKES TIME--GOT IT MOOSE?
Leach's starting OL?
Cole Madison- 3 star, no offers other than WSU
Eduardo Middleton- 3 star, two other P5 offers
Riley Sorenson- 3 star, two other P5 offers
Cody O'Connell- 3 star, no other P5 offers, only other offer was Idaho
Andre Dillard- 3 star, no other P5 offers
Note what the article says below about O'Connell and Dillard-who are the stars of the line--2 guys most of the talent-tards on this board would laugh and scoff at. On this point, why the hell is Tariq Cole our most talented player? Coaching? Talent? Maybe it's personal development and commitment too?
Here is what Pro Football Focus had to say about WSU's OL:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/co...tate-offense-so-dangerous-air-raid-luke-falk/
Arguably the most overlooked aspect of Washington State’s offensive success is the play of its offensive line. Washington State’s offensive line is far and away Pro Football Focus’ highest-graded pass-blocking unit in college football. The rate of hits, sacks and hurries allowed is fantastic, and this is a credit to the large splits they employ along with their patience in pass protection. Here’s an example of their effectiveness in pass protection:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/02/offensive-line-the-key-to-wsus-recent-success/
That counts as effusive praise from a coach who complained during his 2012 debut season at WSU that his offensive line could not handle Utah’s two-man rush, and that his five linemen would get whipped in an alley fight by two of the Utes defensive linemen.
And where this unit has been is what makes part of its dominance so amazing. In Leach’s first year, the Cougars barely had enough offensive linemen to field a team, and they barely weighed enough to be called offensive linemen. This line really is not that far removed from those days.
Center Riley Sorenson saw his first snaps in 2013, just one year after the Utah debacle. Right tackle Cole Madison has been starting since 2014, a year in which the Cougars went 3-9 and saw starting quarterback Connor Halliday’s season end on one of the 36 sacks the team surrendered that year.
Last year the offensive line was good, but it also had a lynchpin player in left tackle Joe Dahl, who now suits up for the NFL’s Detroit Lions. The Cougars also lost his left-side battery mate, guard Gunnar Eklund.
Yet the pair of Andre Dillard and Cody O’Connell have been an undeniable upgrade, so far. Dillard has the athleticism to handle premier rushers, and O’Connell is knocking around defenders in the run game.
Madison, Sorenson and Eduardo Middleton have been starting games for a long time, but are showing that last year’s solid performance was a plateau, not a ceiling.
AND THIS IS AFTER THEIR SEASON OPENER DEBACLE at EWU:
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...e-problems-stemmed-from-communication-issues/
Moose, on one hand, I admire your tenacity in sticking to your position. ON the other hand, you need to give it a rest and give it some time. Examples can be cited on both sides. See the info in my post above about Mike Leach. His teams SUCKED in years 1 and 3. In years 4 and 5, he has his team rolling.
Oh, and your example, Belichick, went 5-11 in his first year.
Who did he replace? Some loser named Pete Carroll, who had a better record at NE in the three previous years. And Carrolll sucked in his first two years at Seattle.
I tend to think its a combination of the three: injured talent, the scheme hasn't been grasped as quickly as we'd like, and people haven't been coached as effectively as we'd like. seeing many more fundamental errors with regards to missed assignments and missed tackles this year compared to previous years. I also think that people are playing slow because they're not sure of what they're doing.
But I think they expected all this. with better coaching, maybe we get one or two more wins. So they decided to take their lumps with relatively new coaches so they could pay them less. Next year will probably be more of the same, but our talent will be better. but for year 3, Ash is going to have to make a determination and release those coaches who aren't hacking it and replace them with more experienced/effective coaching talent. by then our roster should be in much better shape.
I think by year 5, we'll be where we want to be, which is why I've always seen this situation as a 5 year plan.
Are you saying zone blocking can not be effective? I tried to stay with your point but am not sure.
Its not just rules that change its responsibilities that change and that can be a huge difference between what a linemen does well and what he does not do well.
A good case in point on this is Washington State, which I posted above. Also, I recall our OL saying their communication was not good. This doomed Washington State in their loss to Eastern Washington this year.
It is not the same in every scheme. Some is man blocking, some is zone blocking, some is double team zone blocking, some schemes require hinge blocking, some schemes require pullers to get deep as opposed to attacking right down the line. I coached a team that was very successful because we ran zone blocking schemes. If we had gone to step into our gap and block the man in front of you there is no way we win the amount of games we won.
Responsibilities are defined by rules. Semantics. If they don't know their responsibility it's coaching. If they can't handle their responsibility it's skill. I'll give these guys the benefit if the doubt and say that in a pro-set offense they need road plows so their body types were built up to support that. In a read option, they need to be more nimble and the inability to perform may be a function of their current body type and not overall skill.
All I'm saying is that it's way too long to be blaming scheme. These guys don't ride the short bus. It's not that hard.
And I assume you successfully taught zone blocking techniques to hs kids practicing a few hours a day. Not to kids going to college for free studying football 365 days a year.
It's skill not scheme.
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