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Ismael Massoud

It is extremely troubling that Pike continues not close even with the new practice facility at his back. UGH

To simplify basketball recruiting, it's extremely dirty and Hobbs has a mandate to run a clean program under the proper direction of Pike.

In my estimate 80-85% of recruits have an AAU connection to be steered to a school....not all AAU people have an incentive in recruiting but they work very hard and feel entitled to have a say in things.

In order for RU to continue to climb the standings, the recruits involved have to see the overall value of a B1G program, tristate area, new facilities and great staff....Mathis was the one recruit who was headed to UCONN, but talked out of it at the last minute with Ollie's status being very shaky.

There are enough clean recruits that have parents in complete control of their sons choices....and in most of those cases, RU will be up against programs who do not play the AAU game....the Wisconsin, Northwestern, Stanford, Notre Dame, Virginia's of the major conferences.

RU has plenty of options....I really wanted Massoud in Scarlet but not meant to be....the two names mentioned today fill the same role as stretch 4, who can shoot it....
 
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To simplify basketball recruiting, it's extremely dirty and Hobbs has a mandate to run a clean program under the proper direction of Pike.

In my estimate 80-85% of recruits have an AAU connection to be steered to a school....not all AAU people have an incentive in recruiting but they work very hard and feel entitled to have a say in things.

In order for RU to continue to climb the standings, the recruits involved have to see the overall value of a B1G program, tristate area, new facilities and great staff....Mathis was the one recruit who was headed to UCONN, but talked out of it at the last minute with Ollie's status being very shaky.

There are enough clean recruits that have parents in complete control of their sons choices....and in most of those cases, RU will be up against programs who do not play the AAU game....the Wisconsin, Northwestern, Stanford, Notre Dame, Virginia's of the major conferences.

RU has plenty of options....I really wanted Massoud in Scarlet but not meant to be....the two names mentioned today fill the same role as stretch 4, who can shoot it....

It is not a good sign after two last place finisheS in conference and heavy investment into facilities that we are already making the "we don't play that game excuse" for bad recruiting and lack of closing ability. Not to mention the "solution" is there are still 15-20% of recruits (yikes we are limiting our talent pool) that Rutgers will have to beat Stanford, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, UVA.....which is never going to happen! Ok so we will go dancing by beating out NW for basketball recruits maybe half of the time. YIKES
 
It is not a good sign after two last place finisheS in conference and heavy investment into facilities that we are already making the "we don't play that game excuse" for bad recruiting and lack of closing ability. Not to mention the "solution" is there are still 15-20% of recruits (yikes we are limiting our talent pool) that Rutgers will have to beat Stanford, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, UVA.....which is never going to happen! Ok so we will go dancing by beating out NW for basketball recruits maybe half of the time. YIKES
Bad recruiting??? What the f are you talking about?
 
To simplify basketball recruiting, it's extremely dirty and Hobbs has a mandate to run a clean program under the proper direction of Pike.

In my estimate 80-85% of recruits have an AAU connection to be steered to a school....not all AAU people have an incentive in recruiting but they work very hard and feel entitled to have a say in things.

In order for RU to continue to climb the standings, the recruits involved have to see the overall value of a B1G program, tristate area, new facilities and great staff....Mathis was the one recruit who was headed to UCONN, but talked out of it at the last minute with Ollie's status being very shaky.

There are enough clean recruits that have parents in complete control of their sons choices....and in most of those cases, RU will be up against programs who do not play the AAU game....the Wisconsin, Northwestern, Stanford, Notre Dame, Virginia's of the major conferences.

RU has plenty of options....I really wanted Massoud in Scarlet but not meant to be....the two names mentioned today fill the same role as stretch 4, who can shoot it....

So this recruitment is not on the up and up?
Is that why is he picking Wake?

And I thought his mom wanted him to stay local.
So much for that (unless mom is getting a cut).
 
Who knows how interested these kids really were in Rutgers (Strickland, Hyatt, Massoud). For all we know they just threw school names out there to play them against the schools they ultimately committed to.
 
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I like Pike but just as in football we deal from no position of strength on any level. No history of success. Facilities no better than most. A drab campus and city. Our greatest hope will be luck and timing just as it was in the mid 70's .
 
So this recruitment is not on the up and up?
Is that why is he picking Wake?

And I thought his mom wanted him to stay local.
So much for that (unless mom is getting a cut).

There are 2 paths in recruiting..family and AAU....somewhere along the way, most Top 100 immediate impact kids are going to get a free education and it's very rare that the family has 100% say on the school. It is much easier to recruit the one side that a school feels is the best path of success and in most cases, it will tell you which way a recruiting process will go. To be fair, Wake already has a Top 100-150 type recruit from the same AAU program last year (Mucius) so it could be just as simple as Wake having a more established relationship with their program....whether its Nike or Adidas etc

That is not implying that the parents have absolutely no say, but there is nothing inherently wrong with picking Wake Forest....the inital rumblings were that schools like LSU and Auburn, have lengthy reputations over decades of being willing to push the boundaries to get some recruits...and when Auburn was the reported leader and the one of the final 5 schools on a list where academics are considered to be a factor, it was clear to me that just being close to home wasn't the main factor....and neither was it solely academics, otherwise Harvard would be a stronger and longer term choice by the player, well beyond just basketball.

RU has done a tremendous job in recruiting and the recruits landed already (Baker, Mathis, Doucoure, McConnell, Kiss, Young, Harper Jr, Myles Johnson, Mulcahy etc), all are more than enough evidence that RU can recruit.

In some cases however if there are 4 excellent choices of basketball and academics in front of you and you can't really go wrong with any of them, these items do happen most (not all) but most of the time if the parents are fine with any of the options....and if it's a recruit at this level (Top 100 range).

There are enough good basketball players and recruitments where the staff, school, being in the B1G, tristate area, is more than enough for a recruit to decide that RU makes sense....but Wisconsin, Northwestern, Virginia, Notre Dame, Stanford, Harvard can stand alone and develop players and win games, without diving into this realm....i believe that this is truly the best path for a RU to take in recruiting and building a program vs the other route....

It will just take 3 to 4 hard working kids a year to get it rebuilt and i believe there are enough of those types of kids to get it done. I am certain Massoud fits that profile and was 100% worth the effort of recruiting him. But recruiting items that usually change so rapidly, happens for a reason.
 
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I wanted Massoud as much as the next guy but Greene is right... we're talking about a program that hasn't made the tournament since 1991 and hasn't had a winning season since 2006. A program that has finished last in the Big Ten four years out of four. We really can't get bent out of shape when a recruit, especially a 4* guy being courted by lots of other major programs, doesn't decide to come here.

Look I think it's a little weird (not "fishy," just weird) that he would apparently decide to go to Wake Forest BEFORE his visit, but that stuff happens. Danny Manning was up to see him a day or two after Pikiell was, and who knows what he said but let's remember that other coaches get paid lots of money to do the same job as Pikiell. I happen to think Manning isn't a very good coach, but he just went to the tournament two years ago and put John Collins in the NBA.

And just like in football, the new facility isn't going to automatically turn recruits on to us. It helps but it's a very small part of the picture in the grand scheme of things. We got recruits like Mike Rosario and Greg Echenique and Dane Miller and Myles Mack without flashy facilities. Hell the RAC didn't even have air conditioning in those days.

It really, really sucks that we've been the apparent runner-up so many times. But the rebuild of the program is a huge undertaking and despite progress it's still early on in the process. Not finishing last would be a step in the right direction. But the last 25+ years have been really rough that even a coach like Manning (who has never had a winning ACC record) and a school like Wake (which has only been to the tournament three times since 2005) is still miles ahead of Rutgers. They have Collins, like I said. They have Chris Paul. They have a Final Four in Massoud's lifetime (he would have been four years old, but still, banners are banners). It's an uphill climb.
 
The people on here complaining about recruiting DO NOT know what they are talking about. This is not like football. In basketball you are going to be rejected a lot. However, all you are looking for are 3-4 guys to say yes. At the same time, you’re going have a more say no. In the past, we had maybe one 4 star guy look at us each year. We have the attention of more than one four star guy these days. But go ahead and complain because Pike can’t close on everyone he wants
 
There are fans that are unaware or in general negative in nature and most are the ones that show up once the rebuild is done and are on the bandwagon. Which is fine and understandable. But it is also naive.

I mentioned for years, all the way back to sitting at a court club meeting on how RU needed these bells and whistles to recruit against the ACC and rest of the country with facilities and he was 100% right...but he placed the lack of recruiting success being sustained on RU not the staff or targeting the wrong players.

Pike and the staff are targeting the right kids that fit the culture you want to rebuild a program. It will take time for this roster in the next 2-3 years to develop. As a note, landing Mulcahy will payoff over the next 3 years on the court and in recruiting. He is wildly popular to the players in 2020, 2021 because he's a grinder and picked RU...just something to keep an eye on...similar to Geo Baker doing this in New England, Mulcahy will get some local kids to take a little longer look and consider RU.
 
This kid hasn't even verballed. Do the people that want to shit on the program get some weird early Google alert, or do they just stalk the board not posting until something goes wrong?

LOL..This!

After reading this thread I was googling to find out when he committed to Wake. Jesus! A few predictions go the other way and now all the sudden pike can’t recruit? Some people man.
 
Let's hope he makes it to the Rutgers visit and then let's see. Just want a chance with him on campus
 
I think a lot of people take stock in Russ’ opinion. I’m one of them. I sure do hope he’s wrong and I’m sure he does as well.
And I don't think he would've switched his prediction so quickly if there weren't good reason.
 
I think a lot of people take stock in Russ’ opinion. I’m one of them. I sure do hope he’s wrong and I’m sure he does as well.

If Russ and Hawk are saying it’s over, it’s over.

Thanks for the replies, Hawk.

It really sucks but on to the next one.
 
It's unfortunate, but we've already got our main target for this cycle (Mulcahy). Other than Alvarado two years ago, Pike has been good at securing his #1 targets (Mathis, Mulcahy) to date.

It's incorrect to say he's been a failure on the recruiting trail, and especially in basketball, you need to realize the recruiting game is played differently.

A. Expect to lose wanted recruits to non-power 5 teams. The power-5 distinction is not as meaningful in basketball as it is in football. At least a 1/4th to a 1/3 of the Rivals 150 each year commits to a non-power 5 school.
B. The Rivals 150 is not the be-all/end-all of recruiting. There are plenty of players just outside of the 150 that are nearly as talented as players from 100-150. This was the failure of Fred Hill (not targeting these players). Thus, he'd go from targeting a highly ranked player to having to pick up someone from Monmouth, since it's not easy to just poach a kid from an A-10 school like it is in football. Pike so far, makes sure players in this range feel the love so to speak (Geo Baker, Caleb McConnell) so even after top options fall through, we still get decent players.
C. Just like in football, system fit is important in basketball as well. You need to recruit players who fit what you want to do. If you want a slow deliberate team that drains the shot clock before taking a 3 - get players who are capable of passing the ball around and then hitting 3s. If you want a team full of plus defenders that score off transition buckets - you'll need athletic players who play with a lot of effort.
 
rusojo

lack of closing ability?

i dont think you have a realistic view of the challenges a Rutgers basketball coach faces right now.

He closed Mulcahy as his stock was trending down and beat out Northwestern.

He closed Mathis. That was good.

Carter. Good.

So maybe three of his guys had serious competition on the recruiting trail.

The guys that he developed relationships but had other offers by and large went elsewhere.

Bad recruiting??? What the f are you talking about?

Each class of Pikiells has been in the bottom third of the conference by avg player rating. That’s not good. It’s bad. No? Are people EXPECTING (not hoping) to get better by beating out Northwestern for recruits and finishing above Illinois in recruiting most years, if that?

To be clear, as I have always been, I am not down on Pike as a coach. I have heard first hand from other coaches who believe he is the real deal. But recruiting is not looking good. That’s not really debatebale based on the rankings. You would think a guy with that reputation and premier basketball facility at his back would capitalize on relationships instead of recruits jumping ship once another realistic option is made available later in the process.

I’m cautiously optimistic in Pike. But boy do must people here assume it’s a foregone conclusion he will win big.
 
He closed Mulcahy as his stock was trending down and beat out Northwestern.

He closed Mathis. That was good.

Carter. Good.

So maybe three of his guys had serious competition on the recruiting trail.

The guys that he developed relationships but had other offers by and large went elsewhere.



Each class of Pikiells has been in the bottom third of the conference by avg player rating. That’s not good. It’s bad. No? Are people EXPECTING (not hoping) to get better by beating out Northwestern for recruits and finishing above Illinois in recruiting most years, if that?

To be clear, as I have always been, I am not down on Pike as a coach. I have heard first hand from other coaches who believe he is the real deal. But recruiting is not looking good. That’s not really debatebale based on the rankings. You would think a guy with that reputation and premier basketball facility at his back would capitalize on relationships instead of recruits jumping ship once another realistic option is made available later in the process.

I’m cautiously optimistic in Pike. But boy do must people here assume it’s a foregone conclusion he will win big.

We've finished last in the Big Ten four years out of four. What makes you feel like we should be in the top half of the conference when it comes to recruiting?
 
He closed Mulcahy as his stock was trending down and beat out Northwestern.

He closed Mathis. That was good.

Carter. Good.

So maybe three of his guys had serious competition on the recruiting trail.

The guys that he developed relationships but had other offers by and large went elsewhere.



Each class of Pikiells has been in the bottom third of the conference by avg player rating. That’s not good. It’s bad. No? Are people EXPECTING (not hoping) to get better by beating out Northwestern for recruits and finishing above Illinois in recruiting most years, if that?

To be clear, as I have always been, I am not down on Pike as a coach. I have heard first hand from other coaches who believe he is the real deal. But recruiting is not looking good. That’s not really debatebale based on the rankings. You would think a guy with that reputation and premier basketball facility at his back would capitalize on relationships instead of recruits jumping ship once another realistic option is made available later in the process.

I’m cautiously optimistic in Pike. But boy do must people here assume it’s a foregone conclusion he will win big.

Well, to be sure, Pike is certainly recruiting better than EJ did, and seems to be in the mix with a TON of high-major kids.

But I guess you're right that, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE B1G, our recruiting is lagging behind. But people on this board see the way things were and can't help but see that Pike has this thing going in the right direction (including in recruiting).

This truly is a colossal undertaking. Pike is attempting to recruit at a school that hasn't made the NCAA tournament in 27 years, hasn't even had a winning record in more than a decade, was embroiled in a national scandal just a few years ago, and has some of the worst facilities of any "high major" school in the country. Perhaps some here are a little more forgiving of Pike for doing what he is doing under these difficult circumstances.

Based on the above, I would say Pike is doing a damn good job in landing Geo Baker, Mathis, Harper, Carter, Doucoure, and Mulcahy. It's not "concerning" just because he hasn't landed every 4-star player that he has targeted.
 
But I guess you're right that, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE B1G, our recruiting is lagging behind.

That is not correct. If you go by Rivals average star rating our 2018 class was tied for 5th best in the Big Ten. We ranked ahead of: Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Penn State. We are tied with Ohio State, Northwestern and Iowa. Only Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State and Indiana had a higher average star rating.
 
He closed Mulcahy as his stock was trending down and beat out Northwestern.

He closed Mathis. That was good.

Carter. Good.

So maybe three of his guys had serious competition on the recruiting trail.

The guys that he developed relationships but had other offers by and large went elsewhere.



Each class of Pikiells has been in the bottom third of the conference by avg player rating. That’s not good. It’s bad. No? Are people EXPECTING (not hoping) to get better by beating out Northwestern for recruits and finishing above Illinois in recruiting most years, if that?

To be clear, as I have always been, I am not down on Pike as a coach. I have heard first hand from other coaches who believe he is the real deal. But recruiting is not looking good. That’s not really debatebale based on the rankings. You would think a guy with that reputation and premier basketball facility at his back would capitalize on relationships instead of recruits jumping ship once another realistic option is made available later in the process.

I’m cautiously optimistic in Pike. But boy do must people here assume it’s a foregone conclusion he will win big.
 
I, too, am cautiously optimistic. Our recruiting has been at the bottom of the league but there has been an uptick this year. Part of that may be due to the fact that Harper was an under-the-radar recruit when we got him (which is probably why we did get him), and he kind of blew up this year. Mathis and Mulcahy were big for slightly different reasons.

I think he’s doing a nice job so far but I remember the way I felt right befor the B1G tournament, and it was nothing like how I felt afterwards. I remember thinking that Eugene was the only player who had improved last season.

I expect this to be a down (record wise) but fun year. Getting another 4 star type recruit for next season would be huge. The team is young and I’d be very happy with a team that improved over the season. (I didn’t see that last year, except for the last 3 games and a lot of that was Sanders). Then again, there are some who think Sanders was partially to blame for the team’s lack of improvement.

I hope for a record as close to .500 as possible this year and I would love it we could escape the B1G basement
 
The people here who don’t understand the positives around basketball recruiting need to take a lap. The quality of players we are going after now is leaps and bounds better than where we were 4 years ago. We are landing more B1G quality players. I keep hearing people say, “yeah, but we’re still ranked last in the the recruiting rankings.” Please compare Pike’s classes against previous RU classes. Their’s your answer. We’re starting to actually put together a roster that can compete. Dammit!! Why is that every time something good happens someone has to come piss on it. You people really suck. We beat Seton Hall last year. Yeah we had some tough losses, but we also didn’t have depth. We might actually have depth moving forward.
Btw, I noticed none of you naysayers mentioned Ron Harper. Are you going to give Pike credit for that? Or are we going to ignore how Pike found a three star guy who became a four star after the season
 
Please compare Pike’s classes against previous RU classes.

Sure. National ranking since Hill took over:

2007: 50
2008: 34
2009: 232
2010: 81
2011: 18
2012: 108
2013: 100
2014: 69
2015: 42
2016: 103
2017: 63
2018: 50

Pikiell is recruiting right in line with previous coaches. Now it's a good sign that there's an upward trend but there was for Eddie Jordan too, it just turned out he wasn't good at coaching or retaining what was here.
 
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Well, to be sure, Pike is certainly recruiting better than EJ did, and seems to be in the mix with a TON of high-major kids.

But I guess you're right that, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE B1G, our recruiting is lagging behind. But people on this board see the way things were and can't help but see that Pike has this thing going in the right direction (including in recruiting).

This truly is a colossal undertaking. Pike is attempting to recruit at a school that hasn't made the NCAA tournament in 27 years, hasn't even had a winning record in more than a decade, was embroiled in a national scandal just a few years ago, and has some of the worst facilities of any "high major" school in the country. Perhaps some here are a little more forgiving of Pike for doing what he is doing under these difficult circumstances.

Based on the above, I would say Pike is doing a damn good job in landing Geo Baker, Mathis, Harper, Carter, Doucoure, and Mulcahy. It's not "concerning" just because he hasn't landed every 4-star player that he has targeted.

Good post. Wish more people applied the same to Football but for some reason these very similar situations are views totally different.

Last year's Rutgers class was ranked ahead of Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa, Penn State, Nebraska and Wisconsin.

2018 B1G team recruiting rankings


Of course team recruiting rankings may change as more kids commits this cycle for currently Rutgers class is ranked ahead of Indiana, Northwestern and Wisconsin

2019 B1G team recruiting rankings

As I mentioned in my post, average player rating, not class rank, has been bottom third of the conference each year.
 
Sure. National ranking since Hill took over:

2007: 50
2008: 34
2009: 232
2010: 81
2011: 18
2012: 108
2013: 100
2014: 69
2015: 42
2016: 103
2017: 63
2018: 50

Pikiell is recruiting right in line with previous coaches. Now it's a good sign that there's an upward trend but there was for Eddie Jordan too, it just turned out he wasn't good at coaching or retaining what was here.

It's kind of telling that in the last 12 seasons, we've only had back-to-back Top 70 classes three times, and have never done it three times in a row. The last two times it's happened, the next class is ranked outside the Top 100. Hopefully 2019 breaks that trend.
 
Good post. Wish more people applied the same to Football but for some reason these very similar situations are views totally different.



As I mentioned in my post, average player rating, not class rank, has been bottom third of the conference each year.
That's completely inaccurate. Our star rating is 3.5 for 2018, which is tied for 5th in the conference on Rivals. If you go by "points" which includes number of players and a more specific ranking, we're 8th which is still top 2/3rds. Make your point, but why are you attempting to skew the ledger against Pikiell? Just annoyed people aren't happy with football?
 
It's kind of telling that in the last 12 seasons, we've only had back-to-back Top 70 classes three times, and have never done it three times in a row. The last two times it's happened, the next class is ranked outside the Top 100. Hopefully 2019 breaks that trend.

Don't quote me on this but the 2009 class may not have had an available scholarship and that's why it was ranked so low.
 
Sure. National ranking since Hill took over:

2007: 50
2008: 34
2009: 232
2010: 81
2011: 18
2012: 108
2013: 100
2014: 69
2015: 42
2016: 103
2017: 63
2018: 50

Pikiell is recruiting right in line with previous coaches. Now it's a good sign that there's an upward trend but there was for Eddie Jordan too, it just turned out he wasn't good at coaching or retaining what was here.
Keep in mind these rankings don’t include transfers. Our roster right now is better than anything Eddie Jordan brought in. The 42nd ranked class also includes someone who never made it here. Not enough Big10 quality players. We don’t think we’re going dancing. We just think we can actually be competitive. The fans here understand there’s a uphill battle.
 
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One problem is that we haven't been able to develop the 4* guys we have gotten into anything more than average starters at best. Or we've been taking the wrong 4* guys, like Corey Chandler.
 
One problem is that we haven't been able to develop the 4* guys we have gotten into anything more than average starters at best. Or we've been taking the wrong 4* guys, like Corey Chandler.
It also helps to put talented players around them. That will help them develop
 
If Russ and Hawk are saying it’s over, it’s over.

Thanks for the replies, Hawk.

It really sucks but on to the next one.
----
seems to mirror what happened to Hyatt.... I still hope that he visits down there and does not
feel it is right for him.... you never know....probably a pipe dream
 
Very optimistic about Rutgers future. I wish the best to Massoud. He is a local kid with seemingly a good head his shoulders. Good luck!
 
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That's completely inaccurate. Our star rating is 3.5 for 2018, which is tied for 5th in the conference on Rivals. If you go by "points" which includes number of players and a more specific ranking, we're 8th which is still top 2/3rds. Make your point, but why are you attempting to skew the ledger against Pikiell? Just annoyed people aren't happy with football?

That clown ( RUsojo) came in shooting off his gun with blanks in them. And it's obvious that he came in to be negative....saying that the Mulcahy get was only because he was trending down. Then down playing the Harper get.
 
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Sure. National ranking since Hill took over:

2007: 50
2008: 34
2009: 232
2010: 81
2011: 18
2012: 108
2013: 100
2014: 69
2015: 42
2016: 103
2017: 63
2018: 50

Pikiell is recruiting right in line with previous coaches. Now it's a good sign that there's an upward trend but there was for Eddie Jordan too, it just turned out he wasn't good at coaching or retaining what was here.

Plus Shaq Carter and Kiss who don’t factor. 2018 has the most talent infused into the program in one year since 2011 (Carter, Mack, Jack).
 
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