Seems the Big 12's desire (and probably their TV Partners FOX and ESPN) is to expand to new markets on/near the East Coast...so I doubt you will see BYU...let alone a long shot like Colorado State...as I don't see how anyway the Big 12 will go back to that state again.
Oklahoma President - Big 12 should Strive for 12 Teams
- Thread starter RURM85
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Its been reported in the past Oklahoma and OSU tried to join the B1G as a package deal when all the Big 12 schools were defecting. The B1G wasnt interested. But they are just saying what everyone knows. The Big 12 isnt ideal and neither is the longhorn network. Texas really screwed itself with that network.
You can also easily blame ESPN for being short-sighted in offering up the Longhorn Network to UT...because that has stifled any chance (at least till now) to start up a Big 12 TV Network that ESPN could have been a partner, which would have generated millions of $$$ for ESPN...vs ESPN stuck with an outflow $15 Million payment to UT annually for a team specific network that almost no one watches and provides zero profits back to the MotherShip.
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More coverage out of the Dallas Morning News last night as writer sums up yesterday's events/quotes.
OU’s Boren says Big 12 is ‘psychologically disadvantaged (at a 10 member conf)
http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews...f-conference-presidents-favor-expansion.html/
Now that the cat is out of the bag...seems that Big 12 Commish Bowlsby is now afraid to even ask what other Univ President's think or say on this topic.
During an appearance Friday on the “Paul Finebaum Show,” Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said he doesn’t sense that a majority of league presidents favor expansion, even though he hasn’t taken a vote and doesn’t plan one.
OU’s Boren says Big 12 is ‘psychologically disadvantaged (at a 10 member conf)
http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews...f-conference-presidents-favor-expansion.html/
Now that the cat is out of the bag...seems that Big 12 Commish Bowlsby is now afraid to even ask what other Univ President's think or say on this topic.
During an appearance Friday on the “Paul Finebaum Show,” Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said he doesn’t sense that a majority of league presidents favor expansion, even though he hasn’t taken a vote and doesn’t plan one.
Interesting tweet about the now vocal OU President who supports expansion from that same Dallas Morning News writer:
Any knowledge/information that the rest of the league is not aligned with the path Texas is taking is bad business for Bowlsby. He would rather shut his eyes and pretend there is harmony in the universe than deal with any contentious issues at hand. Where I thought it would be the ACC that gets eaten first, this continued Big 12 dysfunction will ultimately prove to be the demise of this conference.
I think any directional school comments are ridiculous. Northwestern, UCLA, USC, Cal-Berkely, are all directional schools. Why not pick on schools like Rutgers, Stanford, Duke, Clemson, too?
Just blow up the B12 and go to 16 in the other 4. 4 conference winners in playoff. Stop the BS.
Texas has "owned" Bowlsby (and all the other Big 12 Commissioners before him, let alone the entire conf) )when he came over from Stanford 3 years ago...but it seems that UT's stranglehold is slowly losing its grasp...while is why Bowlsby is afraid of the reality (i.e. other Big 12 schools have wishes and now a plan to help them reach their goals) and none of it will be what Texas (or Bowlsby) wanted.
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
Orlando is a small market ? Not to mention in one the USA top destination cities (Disney, Universal, Sea World, etc) and in maybe the most fertile HS football recruiting areas in the US.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037/
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037/
The minute the Big 8 Conference merged with the old Southwest Conference, The Big 12 was doomed. The Pac 12 had been after Colorado since the early 80s after they add Arizona and Arizona St. in the late 70s. Colorado always ignored it until the 2000s when they had enough of the Big 12 (Texas). Nebraska watched as Texas bullied them out of a leadership role in the Big 12. In the Big 8 it was Nebraska and Oklahoma. In the Big 12 NU watched their place in the pecking order disappear, then it became Texas and sidekick OU. Missouri always felt like the redheaded step-child and ran at the first chance. Texas doesn't respect anyone and it really kills them to see Texas A&M prosper more than them now. If given another chance OU is out, but remember they have to take Oklahoma St. with them.
Cincy is the # 34 in this top 100 TV market rankings
(http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets)
UCF is #19 ( don't think the Vitamins will take both UCF & USF, but USF is in the #13 market
Memphis is at #48.
BYU is in Provo, but sure they'd bring in the Salt Lake viewership which is ranked at #33
(UConn is in the #30 market, but doubt that will help them and their future will be tied to the AAC) )
But the question is, would the rest of the nation want to watch 2 of those teams play each other, if they were in the Big 12.
(http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets)
UCF is #19 ( don't think the Vitamins will take both UCF & USF, but USF is in the #13 market
Memphis is at #48.
BYU is in Provo, but sure they'd bring in the Salt Lake viewership which is ranked at #33
(UConn is in the #30 market, but doubt that will help them and their future will be tied to the AAC) )
But the question is, would the rest of the nation want to watch 2 of those teams play each other, if they were in the Big 12.
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Orlando is not a UCF town. Tampa is not a USF town. Cincinnatti is not a UC town.
We've been thorugh this so many times and have first hand experience. Compass point schools and urban schools who reside in states whose major State "U"s are sports powerhouses add no value to any conference. Why do you think the BE died?
We've been thorugh this so many times and have first hand experience. Compass point schools and urban schools who reside in states whose major State "U"s are sports powerhouses add no value to any conference. Why do you think the BE died?
I think the PAC might accept that to get OK, because if the PAC feels it needs to expand , the choices they have to go after are mighty
Cincy is a solid program (all sports), but will anyone in Ohio care? Still they are a safe pick.
UCF is building something solid in central Fla., so they made sense.
USF program is headed in the wrong direction with change not happening anytime soon.
BYU shot itself in the foot when they blew the Big 12 off with demands while in a weak position.
Memphis is just now starting to win at football. The thing that holds them back is their market. It's in the heart of SEC country and Memphis is an after thought. It's even worst than Cincy in B1G country.
UConn tries hard to be a part of the NYC market, but the true is they aren't even close to the Boston market. They have their own market and it's doesn't offer much of anything. They have excellent programs except for football and that drives the bus.
And NYC is not a college football town , let alone a RU Football town, yet Jim Delaney added RU. You are under estimating the awakening UCF in college football, and whoever among the Big12 or ACC doesn't snag UCF will be making a big mistake. Orlando is not only big, it's growing.
PS- how many Bowl games in Orlando now?
Also, from Sports Media Watch, look at UCF's games TV ratings, ranked 39 in D1 (ahead of Baylor TCU, Louiville, W Va, Maryland, Rutgers, yes Rutgers lol, etc etc etc)
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013...ge-football-tv-ratings-2014-texas-am-missouri
PS- how many Bowl games in Orlando now?
Also, from Sports Media Watch, look at UCF's games TV ratings, ranked 39 in D1 (ahead of Baylor TCU, Louiville, W Va, Maryland, Rutgers, yes Rutgers lol, etc etc etc)
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013...ge-football-tv-ratings-2014-texas-am-missouri
Slightly deceptive: this is from 2013, before we were playing against B1G teams. I can't find a similar aggregate for 2014, but I'd feel safe in assuming we're higher than UCF now.
EDIT: Unless your point is that when we were in the same conference we had similar viewership. Then that is also a noteworthy observation.
Rutgers is the flagship state U. If we were the University of Central Jersey and there was another flagship State U, we wouldn't have been given a 2nd thought.
Yet the ACC has remained in the Cartel by doing that at least in part. The difference between Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati and Memphis is their network contracts.
And I think you're wrong about Cincinnati and Orlando. You may be right about Tampa, but only because Tampa isn't a sports town at all (though the crowds were great when USF was good--same as the Bucs.)
The dividing of the pot, isn't that stilll an issue. Present schools don't want to add any school that won't add to share total. That has to be a prob w some of the possible additions, Memphis, Cinci, doubt if either would add enough.. Last best chance was L'ville in my opinion. WV is on an island and I can't think of why any ACC school would give up the ACC for a weak conf w a big daddy (Texas), in charge.
Reading the comments is comical? BTN network and LHN a failure?lol..No one watches? Article is a couple yrs old! "13"
Here's a podcast from today with FOXSports Bruce Feldman and Stewart Mandel with USA TODAY's George Schroeder in regards to Big 12 Expansion and how they would rank potential candidates in order.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...xas-longhorns-oklahoma-sooners-podcast-062615
FOX Sports Feldman ranked his top 4:
1) UCF
2) Cincinnati
3) Memphis
4) BYU
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...xas-longhorns-oklahoma-sooners-podcast-062615
FOX Sports Feldman ranked his top 4:
1) UCF
2) Cincinnati
3) Memphis
4) BYU
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
All big dumpster fire options are ugly...because there ain't no ****ing way they pry an existing acc team to that cluster****
:joy:
:joy:
"For example, Florida St. What would be the point of them moving to the Big 12 if they didn't make any more money than they get in the ACC?"
My only counter is - What if, for some un-Godly reason, the SEC wants two more teams to get east coast exposure - Say NC State and Va Tech (USCe won't allow Clemson and UF won't allow FSU) and the B1G come calling for UNC and VIR - Florida State and Clemson - better prepare for this.
I truly think the ACC is in a weaker position than the B12. The B12 just needs to hold on for the GOR to end.
ACC's GOR fee is much bigger than any other conference plus if you can't show their games on your network, what is the point?
Nothing will happen until the GOR runs out and even then nothing may happen.
Nothing will happen until the GOR runs out and even then nothing may happen.
Well, see that's the problem. That's more wishful thinking than reality. Really, you want the ACC to be in a weaker position, so you're throwing these scenarios against the wall, hoping something sticks.
Your own example proves the point. For you to get Florida St into the Big 12, you had to have a nightmare scenario where you have a bunch of teams leaving the ACC, and Florida St is just looking for a lifeboat. Well, that's not an endorsement of the Big 12. That's just them being at the mercy of fate. You don't have a scenario where the Big 12 could pull in a team like Florida St by their own accord.
That's my whole point. The Big 12 can't offer anything to entice good teams to come, because they can't offer more money. Aside from that, this idea about NC State to the SEC or North Carolina to the Big Ten don't really have any basis in reality. There hasn't been anything to indicate these schools are interested in moving. Message board rumors don't cut it. Besides, you are leaving out one big problem. For the ACC schools to leave, that means the GOR has to be overturned. If that's the case, it means the GORs for all the other conferences can be overturned. The Big 12 would have its own vulnerabilities if this was the case.
Additionally, if the Pac-12 decides (future) that they must bulk up to a 16 Team Conference, which Conference Schools (Geography/Travel/Time Zones etc.) will be first on their list (Big 12).
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Patrick - the question is - does it matter in THIS case.
It seems that according to the OP - the Big12 gets extra money for extra teams. So the new markets thing is meaningless. You want new markets because they increase the odds that the new team will be worth enough to a new contract to pay for themselves.
Then you are free to consider the other things. Will the team open recruiting grounds (yes to both Cincinnati and UCF - major recruiting states that the Big 12 has little presence in now.) Will they be good enough on the field to be interesting (again yes to both.)
Even if the B12 gets extra TV money for extra teams, it still needs to be considered that their guaranteed playoff money and Sugar Bowl money would be diluted.
Right now, the 10 schools split approximately $90 million from those sources. That means that any new addition needs to bring $9 million in additional revenue BEYOND the regular TV money, just for the current schools to break even.
Therefore, a 2 team expansion could work because it seems feasible that a conference championship game could approach the $18 million in revenue to offset the dilution.
Anyone proposing a larger expansion for the B12 is just showing everybody that they don't understand the subject.
The Big 12's contract states that if they go back to 12 teams that they (TV) will pay those two extra teams what everyone else is making but the current teams will not get paid more.
The Big 12 can also make extra money from staging a championship game.
TEXAS believes that since they won't make more money by bringing in two more teams, then what is the point?
Plus, the current teams would make LESS from bowl games and the playoffs.
The Big 12 can also make extra money from staging a championship game.
TEXAS believes that since they won't make more money by bringing in two more teams, then what is the point?
Plus, the current teams would make LESS from bowl games and the playoffs.
Cincinnati is behaving somewhat like RU did in the years when it looked as though we could be left out of the realignment process. It is refurbishing its stadium and spending money as though it knows it will end up somewhere. RU did the addition to our stadium based upon an implicit understanding that the B1G was very interested in us for its 12th team (till the Nebraska opportunity came along). We would have been the eastern partner for PSU in a 12-team league. Perhaps the B12 has given Cincy similar hopes of being WVU's partner.
As for UCF, I think the upside is quite good. It's still a relatively new program and its home is in a region where most of the people are from elsewhere so they come into Florida without the loyalties to UF and FSU that characterize northern Florida. UCF can build its fan base, especially if it will be bringing in major opponents like TX and OU. And unlike us, it has the advantage of having network TV right there in town, where it doesn't have to be shared with myriad other schools and programs.
As for UCF, I think the upside is quite good. It's still a relatively new program and its home is in a region where most of the people are from elsewhere so they come into Florida without the loyalties to UF and FSU that characterize northern Florida. UCF can build its fan base, especially if it will be bringing in major opponents like TX and OU. And unlike us, it has the advantage of having network TV right there in town, where it doesn't have to be shared with myriad other schools and programs.
nope.
Just something that the message boards made up due to their locations and AAU membership.
The ONLY schools I have heard named by the Big Ten people (not JD) were schools like Kansas, Vandy, Florida. Vandy and Florida both refuse to leave the SEC.
Texas did want to approach the Big Ten when the Big12 was falling apart.
So unless Texas and Kansas wants to join or UND, the Big Ten will not be expanding with full members anything soon.
Those two schools don't move the needle. Texas only wants BIG TIME schools like Notre Dame for example. They would never loose money just to add two lesser brands. That makes zero business sense.
Unless the PAC starts looking at OK & OK St , I think you're right about Texas blocking any thought of the B-12 expanding and I feel they are behind the Vitamins not trying to expand now .
But if OK ,OK St and maybe two other Big 12 schools start getting feelers from the PAC, Texas might start singing another tune and force the B-12 to expand , if doing so will keep the schools about to leave happy enough to stay.
Texas won't want the conference they have the most power in to be in jeopardy of losing P5 status, especially if the PAC refuses to let Texas enter on the terms Texas tries to dictate .
