OT: Any Burned Out Teachers in Here?

[dconifer]

I'm not a teacher, but I know many of them. Are there any here?

It seems that so many are leaving the profession. From what I know (anecdotally), it's hard to blame them. It's becoming an undoable job. Administrators are forced to weigh them down with non-teaching, time-wasting activities according to the latest trends, state regulations, and whatever the current buzz words are. In many cases, actual teaching time is being slashed via trendy scheduling models, constant drills and assemblies and so much other stuff. More and more students do nothing in class except raise their hands to be excused to fill their water bottles and go to the bathroom. Many can't be bothered to do anything except stare at their phones during class time, and when phones are taken away, they go berserk (as do many parents). There have been some impressive methods for cheating devised, using the latest technology. For a teacher who is truly interested in educating kids, I can see how frustrating that would be.

There are plenty of excellent schools, sensible administrators, solid teachers, and kids who are there with the intention of learning. But it seems like it's getting less so.

Hopefully, if this post isn't deleted, it won't be barraged by "Teachers are commie libs!" or "kids today suck!" responses, which can be tiresome. Just wonder if there are any frustrated teachers here, and if anybody agrees with me about some of the ways we may have made a wrong turn in education.

FYI, I am a nerdy computer programmer, although it may sound like I'm a teacher based on this...

 

[newell138]

My daughter is a Kindergarten teacher in her 3rd year so no burn out yet but she did say its amazing to her that a large portion of the older teachers are very negative and are constantly telling the younger ones what a mistake they made by choosing this career. I guess not surprising but maybe its a good thing so many of the older ones are retiring. I would also imagine what district you are in plays a large role in the attitude of staff and students. I couldn't imagine trying to teach HS or MS in this day and age of social media and every kid's life revolving around their phones
Like any profession there are great, good and bad.

 

[RUBubba]

Not me, but my wife. Thankfully she is almost done. Can't really disagree with much of what you said. She teaches young kids, so the phones are not an issue, but other parts are spot on.

Too many administrators and "supervisors", many of whom have very little classroom experience. Work three years, move on to become a supervisor, then try to tell my wife with her 25 years experience how to run a classroom. Nope.

Also, one supervisor will go to a seminar, see some new fantastic revolutionary teaching program, then force the teachers to use it. Then another supervisor goes to a different seminar and sees some other new fantastic revolutionary teaching program and forces the staff to use. Wash, rinse, repeat...

Factor in the parents that go between the ones that feel little Johnny is a genius and should be treated as so and the ones that feel little Mary needs and IEP because she's falling behind. In so many of the cases, neither is accurate.

 

[toby83]

buddy teaches at Colonia HS and you repeated some verbatim of what's he said in last couple years

though he's very content to keep collecting his check , pension, unmatched job security (as long as you are not a kid toucher), spectacular benefits with minimal contribution, and summers off. he is as stress free as ever.

 

[Steveriknight]

Meh. The grass is always greener.

I'm a school administrator and worked in private sector for the first half of my career, so I have perspective. So many teachers are lazy bums with bad attitudes.. and they take for granted the luxuries they've enjoyed during their career. The ones that come right out of college and into the union environment of teaching get tenure and then settle in... and in time they get complacent and develop a warped view of "work". They've never been kicked in the ass by "at-will employment" of private sector work where your attitude or performance could cost you your career.

It's a family friendly career and it's a nice life. Makes me sick to hear entitled teachers complain about grading papers after 3pm...

 

[RU Cheese]

I get the premise of the thread, but struggle to grasp the term "burnt out" for people who have summers off...

 

[yesrutgers01]

I get the premise of the thread, but struggle to grasp the term "burnt out" for people who have summers off...

so- you have never taught or been related to a teacher?

 

[yessir321]

Not personally a teacher however I've had 3 close friends leave the profession in the last 8 years. For reference these are my peers and I am currently in my mid 30's. I'm also buddies with another teacher who is 6 years away from retirement and he cannot wait to get out. In his words "The minute my 30 years is up they'll never see me again".

 

[yesrutgers01]

Not personally a teacher however I've had 3 close friends leave the profession in the last 8 years. For reference these are my peers and I am currently in my mid 30's. I'm also buddies with another teacher who is 6 years away from retirement and he cannot wait to get out. In his words "The minute my 30 years is up they'll never see me again".

My SIL is this tiny little thing and she somehow made it through 25 years of teaching middle school math at a public school.
And most teachers will tell you- middle school kids are the worst. lol

 

[yessir321]

Meh. The grass is always greener.

I'm a school administrator and worked in private sector for the first half of my career, so I have perspective. So many teachers are lazy bums with bad attitudes.. and they take for granted the luxuries they've enjoyed during their career. The ones that come right out of college and into the union environment of teaching get tenure and then settle in... and in time they get complacent and develop a warped view of "work". They've never been kicked in the ass by "at-will employment" of private sector work where your attitude or performance could cost you your career.

It's a family friendly career and it's a nice life. Makes me sick to hear entitled teachers complain about grading papers after 3pm...

Honestly sounds like you're exactly the kind of administrator as to why Teachers are leaving

 

[yessir321]

My SIL is this tiny little thing and she somehow made it through 25 years of teaching middle school math at a public school.
And most teachers will tell you- middle school kids are the worst. lol

My best friends wife made it 4 years as a HS chemistry teacher. Girl is a total rockstar, Undergrad in Chemestry and Masters in teaching from Deleware, 4.0 GPA through college.

Wasn't the kids at all why she left, it was the parents and administration. It's much like why little leagues can't find Umpires and referee's anymore, no one wants to deal with the adults

 

[RUBubba]

Yes, there are teachers that complain about grading papers or doing anything after 3:00. That is an issue, and one of the worst parts of the tenure system. My wife has set many younger ones straight when it comes to that. It is part of the job, but homework has diminished over the years anyway. Little Billy doesn't have time to do "busy work" because he has karate from 4:00-5:00, then baseball from 5:30-8:00 and Susie goes from dance to piano lessons, then jujitsu....
There are many supervisors who fail to stand up for their staff and simply cater to the squeaky wheel parents out of a threat of a lawsuit (another big issue unto itself!).

 

[mdk01]

And most teachers will tell you- middle school kids are the worst. lol

Absolutely. Even when it was junior high school 50+ years ago. My sister, mother of 3 who are now adults and married described it as "too old to be children, too young to be adults, just right to be assholes". And that was before phone issue.

 

[e5fdny]

Meh. The grass is always greener.

I'm a school administrator and worked in private sector for the first half of my career, so I have perspective. So many teachers are lazy bums with bad attitudes.. and they take for granted the luxuries they've enjoyed during their career. The ones that come right out of college and into the union environment of teaching get tenure and then settle in... and in time they get complacent and develop a warped view of "work". They've never been kicked in the ass by "at-will employment" of private sector work where your attitude or performance could cost you your career.

It's a family friendly career and it's a nice life. Makes me sick to hear entitled teachers complain about grading papers after 3pm...

Teach and then move to admin or admin from the get go?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

My wife is will be entering year 19 in September

Same sentiments - kids out of control, parents to blame, administrators with no backbone not giving kids real discipline

I tell her the same thing every time we talk about it
Smile, cash paychecks and give them back in June

The benefits are great and pension is also nice
It's the only reasons we're still living in New Jersey

Once she hits 52, we're out

 

[mikebal9]

I'm in year 22. My wife is in year 21. I have 9 more to retire, and I'll make it. I'm still trying to motivate every kid to see their potential and go for it. My wife teaches special Ed. She's great at her job, but she's burnt out.
The students are easy. Parents, admins, and the general disrespect by the public is enough to make someone quit. The turnover is alarming. Even worse, there's a shortage of teachers coming out of college, so the workload is increasing.

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

I wonder if AI will experience burnout once it takes over academia…

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

I wonder if AI will experience burnout once it takes over academia…

I wonder if Jimbo experienced burnout at A & M...

 

[Joey Bags]

Zero financial incentive to become a teacher out of college nowadays.

No pension, benefits are abysmal and no longer rich/subsidized like they used to be, horrific pay with no merit/COLA adjustment.

My wife is a teacher of 10 years post college and will be leaving the profession after this year. My merit raise (non-promotion) this year was larger than all of her raises for the last 10 years combined. From 2020 to current she has only seen a 0.8% increase in pay pursuant to their contract, which, when factoring in inflation and wage growth in the private sector since then, is a joke.

 

[toby83]

Zero financial incentive to become a teacher out of college nowadays.

No pension, benefits are abysmal and no longer rich/subsidized like they used to be, horrific pay with no merit/COLA adjustment.

My wife is a teacher of 10 years post college and will be leaving the profession after this year. My merit raise (non-promotion) this year was larger than all of her raises for the last 10 years combined. From 2020 to current she has only seen a 0.8% increase in pay pursuant to their contract, which, when factoring in inflation and wage growth in the private sector since then, is a joke.

i work for a small company with 75-100 employees

if you want to see abysmal benefits with family plan medical give me a call

 

[ashokan]

In 6 yrs of college (MA included) summers, I worked roofing, cement, moving, post office, foundry and carpentry. Most exhausting job I ever had was subbing after I left uni. I never wanted to be a teacher and never did any of the requirements so I started cold.

Special Ed kids were the nicest but they couldn't sit still. Honor society guys were the worst. Had to break-up jacked 14 yr old girls fighting. Many teachers never left plans. Some kids shared fathers but different mothers and they could hate each other. One kid killed himself after school. Once science class had an explosion (not my class). I would get home and fall asleep in 20 minutes from the drain.

One thing I tell people who want to teach is get in a good district and don't go over 4th grade if you can. Skip middle school. I did K-12 and a lot of the grades were the same work. Teachers in lounge talked a lot about the kids they hated and their summer travel plans and investments. The star teachers really really liked kids and kids new it.

The HS was 65% white, 27% black and the rest from Puerto Rico . Now its 6% white 16% black and the rest are from migrations over the last 20 yrs. When I was there everybody got along well for most part (nobody rich or poor) and the current Ecuadoran kids are golden. They just hold the schools back (language) and cost a lot more. The admins are crooks, the teachers mostly dull, the board useless.

I know education depts in college are often full of radicals that dont really teach anything legit. People say private schools are better and some probably are but they can be pretty messed-up too (I mean look at the Ivy League) .

 

[tom1944]

Drastically under paid in comparison to jobs of similar requirements.

Glad I never considered it.

 

[RU at the shore]

Administrators are forced to weigh them down with non-teaching, time-wasting activities according to the latest trends, state regulations, and whatever the current buzz words are. In many cases, actual teaching time is being slashed via trendy scheduling models, constant drills and assemblies and so much other stuff.

Isn't this similar type of thing true in many professions ?

 

[yesrutgers01]

Zero financial incentive to become a teacher out of college nowadays.

No pension, benefits are abysmal and no longer rich/subsidized like they used to be, horrific pay with no merit/COLA adjustment.

My wife is a teacher of 10 years post college and will be leaving the profession after this year. My merit raise (non-promotion) this year was larger than all of her raises for the last 10 years combined. From 2020 to current she has only seen a 0.8% increase in pay pursuant to their contract, which, when factoring in inflation and wage growth in the private sector since then, is a joke.

I have to ask if this is something that has drastically changed. My SIL has been teaching since 89 and I believe she hit 6 figures early 2000's and now, somewhere around 157k - This is in "upstate" NY- not really upstate, but everyone says so- Arlington SD in Poughkeepsie...but has always made pretty good money- great pension. I think "most" NJ SD's are similar.

i work for a small company with 75-100 employees

if you want to see abysmal benefits with family plan medical give me a call

I have worked with these types of companies since the late 90's when I left IBM. And have been in sales- no pension and many of the medical plans really have sucked. Anyone pulling even a decent pension is in a great spot. For the rest of us- we have had to find a way to put our retirement on our own backs- talk about burnt out. lol

 

[RUaMoose]

Glad I was educated in the 70s & early 80s. Do they even teach long division anymore? I bet most of the brain dead “teachers” don’t know how. Weird this is happening in NJ with all those “great schools” I hear about in those magazines.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

I have to ask if this is something that has drastically changed. My SIL has been teaching since 89 and I believe she hit 6 figures early 2000's and now, somewhere around 157k - This is in "upstate" NY- not really upstate, but everyone says so- Arlington SD in Poughkeepsie...but has always made pretty good money- great pension. I think "most" NJ SD's are similar.

I have worked with these types of companies since the late 90's when I left IBM. And have been in sales- no pension and many of the medical plans really have sucked. Anyone pulling even a decent pension is in a great spot. For the rest of us- we have had to find a way to put our retirement on our own backs- talk about burnt out. lol

A regular teacher making 157k in unheard of
Principals, VP, Supervisor, super indendant, etc. yes, but that's nuts if she's pulling in that type of money

My wife can top out around 103k in 4 years; she has a Masters plus 30.
Masters plus 60 is around 109k

Mid 40's with a 9 year old daughter, football crazed husband and maybe 10 more years of teaching = no desire to get those 30 extra credits

The pension is invaluable but they pay a ton into it
Massive portion of the paycheck goes into that

Re. benefits, up until about 7-8 years ago, they were free
Christie then said no mas (and rightly so), but didn't tier up - just said you go from paying nothing to paying a lot

So we went from paying zero to over $600/paycheck

Which goes back to the point of raises for teachers which aren't commensurate with inflation (most jobs aren't); however, when they signed up to teach, they signed up for free benefits, then had to pay into them, and didn't get compensated on the back end salary wise and weren't tiered up in that process

Still, overall it's a good gig
Working 8 months year (including breaks, days off, etc.) for 100k isn't a bad gig

I wouldn't get into it now as the parents enable the hell out of their kids and administrators kiss the parents ass, but my wife snuck in right before the old rules changed (25/55)

She'll probably bow out by 52, but not access the pension until 55 so we don't lose 3 % per year (Roughly 1k out of 5k monthly)

 

[MADHAT1]

looks like the lets call teachers lazy, overpaid and incompetent movement has started.
Too often those feeling unappreciated for what they do take aim at others in order to feel like they are worth more than someone in another profession.
I've seen that time and time again on this boars, when it was Scarlet Nation and now in TKR.
Next lazy bum attack: will it be Law Enforcement or Firemen.
Could be the type of disrespect some show those professions that are shown here is one reason for the burn out along with amateur experts not knowing what it takes to do the best you can do, but judging you on an ignorant opinion of what it takes to be a good teacher, police officer or fireman

 

[RU Cheese]

so- you have never taught or been related to a teacher?

No, I have, and I stated that I understand the point of the thread. I’ve always heard the term in reference to long hours that people can’t continue to put in, which I don’t associate with teachers.

Edit - Not crapping on them by any means - it’s a challenging job and requires special type of person. Was just not picking terminology.

 

[RU Cheese]

Isn't this similar type of thing true in many professions ?

Yes, literally every job or profession other than owning your own company

 

[Rutgers Chris]

No, I have, and I stated that I understand the point of the thread. I’ve always heard the term in reference to long hours that people can’t continue to put in, which I don’t associate with teachers.

Doesn’t necessarily need to be long hours. If I love what I do I could put in crazy hours and not get burnt out. Conversely, if I had a job that I hated, working even limited hours could cause burnout. As noted above, many teachers seem to be struggling with aspects of the job out of their control that is leading to burnout. Not all that uncommon for any job really.

 

[Rhuarc]

As a 22 year teacher and an association rep in my building I hear about burn out a lot. Some of it is because of legit reasons, some of it is self-inflicted. This year, I dealt with a young teacher that didn't get a great score on an evaluation and wanted to know what she could do about it. I read the evaluation and told her, "do what the principal wants you to do". It was spelled out right in front of her. Another teacher has a VERY difficult autism class. A student is violent and harms all the adults in the room with biting, punching, pinching and throwing stuff. He's been there 145 days and he's just now getting sent to special school. They won't say it, but a 6 figure price tag with a lack of spaces available in specialized schools made the district reluctant to do anything.

Admins, resources and shifting curriculum take a toll on most teachers. Not getting enough support is up there too.

I am not burnt out. I do a lot in my school and take on new challenges that keep me motivated and fresh. Have a student teacher for the first time since Covid and the end of EDTPA and it's helped me take it easy a bit but also gives me a new challenge to work on. - helping others. If I have a bad day, and trust me my class is pretty rough, I just come back the next day and try again. I appreciate my salary, benefits and my summers off. I was also named Teacher of the Year last year so that made me feel appreciated and vindicated for busting my a$$. And trust me, there's a lot of crap to get done.

So yes, it's real but depends upon your school district and bosses much like many jobs out there.

 

[RUJohnny]

Schools are a reflection of public life, of the society in which they operate. As we regress as a society, so does our schooling. And we certainly are regressing.

 

[dconifer]

looks like the lets call teachers lazy, overpaid and incompetent movement has started.
Too often those feeling unappreciated for what they do take aim at others in order to feel like they are worth more than someone in another profession.
I've seen that time and time again on this boars, when it was Scarlet Nation and now in TKR.
Next lazy bum attack: will it be Law Enforcement or Firemen.
Could be the type of disrespect some show those professions that are shown here is one reason for the burn out along with amateur experts not knowing what it takes to do the best you can do, but judging you on an ignorant opinion of what it takes to be a good teacher, police officer or fireman

I agree with you, but mostly the comments in this thread have been constructive, even the "toughen up, buttercup" ones. Well-done (in my opinion), TKR...

 

[dconifer]

Schools are a reflection of public life, of the society in which they operate. As we regress as a society, so does our schooling. And we certainly are regressing.

Yeah, I look at things in that way as well...

 

[dconifer]

Isn't this similar type of thing true in many professions ?

It isn't really true in mine. I think there's more emphasis in the private sector on streamlining and efficiency. Not sure, though. Maybe I have a blind spot...

 

[Steveriknight]

Teach and then move to admin or admin from the get go?

No, never was a teacher.. started directly as an admin. I'm a CPA and used to work in Hedge fund/Private equity accounting and finance, but got really tired of commuting to the city and working weekends and typically 60+ hours a week.. plus I was missing out on important family time with my kiddos.

Now I'm a school business administrator at a large K-12 school district.... which is like the CFO/COO. Love what I do, and although there are serious challenges.. it's a spectacular career and I'm happy and thankful to be where I am. For me, after working my absolute ass off for years it's hard to listen to folks working till 3-4pm with the summers off, and a pension and tenure complain. Top of the guide teachers typically make $100k-130k depending on the district and they get there in 20 years usually. There's also opportunities to make extra money with coaching stipends, extra period pay, etc. Sure, you can make more money doing private sector work but that comes with very different risks and zero statutory job protection.

I know professional people that are currently laid off that are struggling to find work. People with families and mortgages, worried their whole life will fall apart soon. My older brother was balling in I.T. for many years, but has been unemployed for almost a year now and is worried he won't be able to land a similar job at his age. There's a major tech recession going on and he is about to turn 50 unemployed. People in serious crisis. These are struggles complaining teachers take for granted that they never have to experience with their tenure protection.

I don't often interface with teachers... but I'm familiar what their work life looks like and I'm extremely familiar with their comp and benefits. Teaching isn't for everyone, and I personally wouldn't want to do it either. But own your decisions, stop complaining, and focus on the positive.

Also, and I think perhaps most teachers don't know this, but the value of their pension is often worth multiple millions of dollars to an equivalent 401k. If you take a retiring teacher and calculate the net present value of a future annuity on their pension payment, most of the time it's worth millions of dollars. I think that gets taken for granted as well. Those teachers are walking around as multimillionaires.

 

[RUTGERS95]

they can learn to code

or

they can learn to coal

 

[DC8690]

I know plenty of teachers and yes the all do complain about how hard their jobs are, but I also know a lot of realtors, nurses, attorneys, corporate workers, doctors and accountants all say they same thing. Guess what? Most people don’t like their jobs or bosses.

 

[e5fdny]

No, never was a teacher.. started directly as an admin. I'm a CPA and used to work in Hedge fund/Private equity accounting and finance, but got really tired of commuting to the city and working weekends and typically 60+ hours a week.. plus I was missing out on important family time with my kiddos.

Now I'm a school business administrator at a large K-12 school district.... which is like the CFO/COO. Love what I do, and although there are serious challenges.. it's a spectacular career and I'm happy and thankful to be where I am. For me, after working my absolute ass off for years it's hard to listen to folks working till 3-4pm with the summers off, and a pension and tenure complain. Top of the guide teachers typically make $100k-130k depending on the district and they get there in 20 years usually. There's also opportunities to make extra money with coaching stipends, extra period pay, etc. Sure, you can make more money doing private sector work but that comes with very different risks and zero statutory job protection.

I know professional people that are currently laid off that are struggling to find work. People with families and mortgages, worried their whole life will fall apart soon. My older brother was balling in I.T. for many years, but has been unemployed for almost a year now and is worried he won't be able to land a similar job at his age. There's a major tech recession going on and he is about to turn 50 unemployed. People in serious crisis. These are struggles complaining teachers take for granted that they never have to experience with their tenure protection.

I don't often interface with teachers... but I'm familiar what their work life looks like and I'm extremely familiar with their comp and benefits. Teaching isn't for everyone, and I personally wouldn't want to do it either. But own your decisions, stop complaining, and focus on the positive.

Also, and I think perhaps most teachers don't know this, but the value of their pension is often worth multiple millions of dollars to an equivalent 401k. If you take a retiring teacher and calculate the net present value of a future annuity on their pension payment, most of the time it's worth millions of dollars. I think that gets taken for granted as well. Those teachers are walking around as multimillionaires.

That’s good advice.

 

[yesrutgers01]

A regular teacher making 157k in unheard of
Principals, VP, Supervisor, super indendant, etc. yes, but that's nuts if she's pulling in that type of money

My wife can top out around 103k in 4 years; she has a Masters plus 30.
Masters plus 60 is around 109k

Mid 40's with a 9 year old daughter, football crazed husband and maybe 10 more years of teaching = no desire to get those 30 extra credits

The pension is invaluable but they pay a ton into it
Massive portion of the paycheck goes into that

Re. benefits, up until about 7-8 years ago, they were free
Christie then said no mas (and rightly so), but didn't tier up - just said you go from paying nothing to paying a lot

So we went from paying zero to over $600/paycheck

Which goes back to the point of raises for teachers which aren't commensurate with inflation (most jobs aren't); however, when they signed up to teach, they signed up for free benefits, then had to pay into them, and didn't get compensated on the back end salary wise and weren't tiered up in that process

Still, overall it's a good gig
Working 8 months year (including breaks, days off, etc.) for 100k isn't a bad gig

I wouldn't get into it now as the parents enable the hell out of their kids and administrators kiss the parents ass, but my wife snuck in right before the old rules changed (25/55)

She'll probably bow out by 52, but not access the pension until 55 so we don't lose 3 % per year (Roughly 1k out of 5k monthly)

She cracked 6 figures just around 2000- Arlington School District NY. She left last year over 150k...I believe she told me 157.
No different- my best friend was a Sargent in the Town of Poughkeepsie and his last year- 2010- he was making $170k. Retired and went on to be a professor at New Paltz
Maybe, it is just Poughkeepsie NY that took care of their people.
I cant talk for anyone else- but she is now doing some part time consulting and her pension and bene's are incredicle.