You are arguing there are towns were "no kids can pass basic skills"...such as? I'm aware of private schools with that problem. Not public.
Assuming you mean "where 100% of crimes" it's probably the same number in NJ anyway where no one passes aka 0
OT: Any Burned Out Teachers in Here?
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You are arguing there are towns were "no kids can pass basic skills"...such as? I'm aware of private schools with that problem. Not public.
Assuming you mean "where 100% of crimes" it's probably the same number in NJ anyway where no one passes aka 0
there are links in the this thread to the worst performing schools. as a district
All six regular high schools run by the Paterson Board of Education had more than 90% of their students fail the state’s standardized math tests in 2023, according to data released last week.
So i an entire district can fail 90% of their kids.......
We get it, you hate cops
I think it is germane to the general topic in the sense that it partially explains why today's students are different than students of the past (I think the eroding respect for the teacher's authority in the classroom, encouraged by the attitudes of parents and lenience of administrators, is a bigger factor than the phones, though). It's more than the defiance and belligerence students show when asked to turn their attentions away from their phone, or, gasp, be asked to surrender it for a class period. I think it has affected the way people think and act (Captain Obvious here), which is especially impactful to younger people who are still finding their way and establishing their behavioral patterns.
To hopefully prevent generational warfare: us geezers often rag on young people for being so attached to their phones. But I'm 100% sure that kids of my and every other generation would be exactly the same way. If high school DConifer had a gadget in his hands that could do all the things a smartphone can do, he would also have treated it as though it was one of his kidneys. Also, there are plenty of boomers walking around staring at an electronic device in their palms as they walk into traffic...
Today, one of my students ran off the gated playground during recess. When the lunch aide went to get her, she ran away more. Eventually they got her to come back. They told me about it so I sent her to the office.....they did nothing. Not only was it an extreme safety hazard that's screaming lawsuit if something bad happens, but now I have to take care of the discipline. Total B.S.
You must have read my thoughts and/or heard my cries! I am a teacher, and I can say with a full throat that these are my exact sentiments!
According to the National Center for Educational Statistics, about 8% of teachers left public school teaching last year, about the same as 10 years ago. Private school teachers leaving was 12%. Some people leave the profession before retirement, but a lot simply retire. https://nces.ed.gov/whatsnew/press_releases/12_13_2023.asp
I've worked in the field for roughly half a century, and the same complaints made 50 years ago are made today. Amped up a bit to be sure, but as Will Rogers once said (in the 1930's), "The schools ain't what they used to be, and they probably never was."
I have a PhD student researching teacher attrition right now, and the #1 reason for leaving the profession (other than retirement) in her data was "school climate" followed by "work-related health issues" and "burnout."
It takes a ton of dedication to be a really good teacher, and it can be hard to keep that dedication up. It's not all that easy to even be a mediocre to poor teacher, but there are a number of folks at any given time who really should be shown the door. But if you want to improve schools, you have to make them positive places for both students and teachers. There are plenty of examples of such schools, but it isn't an easy proposition and it takes constant attention.
I went to school a long long time ago, but when I was in school, teachers were almost never absent, and most were really good. A large part of that reason, that often goes ignored, was that in the 50's and 60's, doors were not open very wide for really talented women to become anything other than teachers. Teaching had the corner on the market of smart, dedicated women. The women's movement changed all that (and absolutely for the beneift of society), but it came at a cost for education.
I've worked in the field for roughly half a century, and the same complaints made 50 years ago are made today. Amped up a bit to be sure, but as Will Rogers once said (in the 1930's), "The schools ain't what they used to be, and they probably never was."
I have a PhD student researching teacher attrition right now, and the #1 reason for leaving the profession (other than retirement) in her data was "school climate" followed by "work-related health issues" and "burnout."
It takes a ton of dedication to be a really good teacher, and it can be hard to keep that dedication up. It's not all that easy to even be a mediocre to poor teacher, but there are a number of folks at any given time who really should be shown the door. But if you want to improve schools, you have to make them positive places for both students and teachers. There are plenty of examples of such schools, but it isn't an easy proposition and it takes constant attention.
I went to school a long long time ago, but when I was in school, teachers were almost never absent, and most were really good. A large part of that reason, that often goes ignored, was that in the 50's and 60's, doors were not open very wide for really talented women to become anything other than teachers. Teaching had the corner on the market of smart, dedicated women. The women's movement changed all that (and absolutely for the beneift of society), but it came at a cost for education.
I never thought about the point that teaching was primary option for talented women back then. Sounds obvious repeating it but still.
How would you change public school education in US skills?
Had a freshman not return to Study Hall after an evacuation drill held 45 minutes before lunch yesterday. The kid had been previously suspended for minor drugs and we evacuate to an adjacent street, where his close friend lives.
Kids skipping out has been going on since forever but in today’s environment it’s me who’s on the hook if he gets himself into mischief. I went above and beyond to search for him, and notify the main office and security that he was missing, Given the opportunity I’d be most happy to be the one to mete out the discipline. He deserves more than he’s going to get from Admin.
Never understood how people teaching in NJ for a total of 180 days per year with probably 14-16 additional personal type days off annually still claim being”burnt out”… NY is maybe 189 days with similar personal time off. It’s a racket… a good one … but still a racket. I know they’re under duress, extraordinary pressures from above and kids are horrific . Yet most stay in the profession.
Burnout comes more from a lack of support, lost purpose, misalignment with values, etc. It’s not the same as being overworked or tired. If they were complaining about that, I’d agree with you. Burnout is a different animal and as we’ve seen with some good examples in this thread, pretty justified in many cases.
1. You don’t understand what leads to burnout in any occupation or endeavor.
2. You don’t know the math on number of days worked: The NJ public school work calendar is more than 180 days. Nor do teachers get 14-16 personal/sick days.
When people claim burnout the perception is they have given up. We get all you say but we are talking less than < 180 days per year. I have 2 teachers in the system from my family. I do sympathize but if you hate it that much … find another job where you can be off from June through September. Every job has its stresses, y
misalignments and frustrations . Most tier 1 or tier 2 are better off . Tier 3-4-5 or whatever maybe have an issue in the future.
Whether I have kids or not is not relative to the subject in question. I have 2 children ages 48-52… I was around when the peanut farmer F’d up the economy so I also saw teachers who made out quite well in the state of New Jersey with the new pay and pension scales. Some of those teachers are still collecting nice checks… some retired after 30 years…I will agree that today the clown show in the schools and educational system may lead to disappointment. Maybe teachers should question their administrators why that is ? Kids get very little discipline from their homes. Teachers who do care about order and rules are at the mercy of the group mentality which thinks being tough and task oriented is evil. They need to make a decision … suck it up or push back … the Teacher’s Unions won’t tolerate that at thought process.
Nobody understands most of what you say either, Bob, but we learn to push on.
Skill,
As a classroom teacher in 2024 having to compete with students having electronic messaging devices, music videos, video games and the World Wide Web at their fingertips and on their school issued laptops is a struggle that drains me like no other. I’d like to walk away but this is already my second career and the health benefits are still too good.
AND Florida made having phones out in the classroom illegal my district and school actually enforce it. Still, it’s a daily competition for their attention that our teachers never had to deal with. I’m friends with several of my high school teachers, most of whom taught well into the cell phone era, and they all admit they had it easier and don’t envy me at all. I have several students who violated the cell phone policy so many times they had out of school suspensions for that alone. That’s how damaged these kids are. It’s like oxygen to them.
And the admins with online doctorates in education want us to engage and entertain with new-fangled teaching strategies. How about these kids just pull their heads out of their asses and do some ****ing schoolwork instead?
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It is actually 100 percent relevant based on my upcoming response. Many teachers mention the double duty of parenting 20+ kids at school along with their own children at home as one of the main reasons for exhaustion and burnout.
Now before you say, "It's always been like this", I would like to point out that at no point in the history of U.S. education has there been more testing, more poor behavior, unruly parents, poverty and immigration to deal with. Many teachers that started 15-20 years ago are only midway through their careers and did not have this much daily drama on their plate. Obviously, they are not starting over career at this point, so they pine for the days of old and pray things improve. Unfortunately, with the state of America and it's people, it's never going to change. So they are frustrated and they are exhausted from raising their own children because it's a hard job.
Anyway, that's why I was asking you about if you had children. I can't relate to what it was like when you raised your children in the past, but I'm confident there were significantly less school based issues that were unsolvable like now.
In my observations from a distance about 75% additional school based issues are phones (social media included) and administrative bloat. There were always "those parents" though not quite as numerous and but more supportive administrators.
All excellent points, Boogie. Cell phones just got banned in all schools in New Zealand. Lunchtime and breaks as well. (We passed notes. That's how old I am!)
Good leadership is so essential in schools, and we don't have a very good process for identifying and supporting such leaders, nor a good way to get rid of the bad ones. In some respects, the leadership situation is worse here in NZ as each school is an independent entity. There are no school districts. Each school has it's own board who is in charge of hiring (and firing) the principal. The principal basically does everything, from buying fertilizer for the lawns to meeting with parents over discipline. And we have no requirements to become a principal other than having been a teacher.
There are a ton of small differences in education down here. For example, kids start school on their fifth birthday into what is called a "new entrants class". And there is no high school graduation. Kids can leave as soon as they have earned enough qualifications to go into whatever they want to do next (college, trade training, etc.). Also, kids have to pass tests to get credits for the courses they are in. Most of the academic courses have tests made by the Ministry of Education, who contracts it out to an ETS like organization. Kids can go to any school they want to if there is space there. Most schools, public and private, have uniforms. Also, we have four, ten-week, terms a year with two weeks off in between terms, except for the summer term (over Christmas of course) that is six weeks. Very little multiple choice testing. Mostly essay exams. As Dean of the College of Education, it was a bit new and different to me!
New teaching strategies can be a pain in the rear. So many of them are brought forward with next to no evidence that they work. I'm pretty old school when it comes to all that. Of course, my mentor was Ben Bloom, who invented the taxonomy of educational objectives (and mastery learning theory). Both have served us well in many situations.
Great post. 100% the other major problem. I have two early elementary aged kids.. it’s exhausting
And who caused those types of behaviors ? The same groups who run BOE… teachers unions from the late 70-80’s…some of those teachers were part of these declines. Who destroyed the typical nuclear family structure in society? The solution is either deal with the problem…push back as a group… or find another job.
Put that kid on a lease. Problem solved!
Right. Now your only worry is raising bail
My Mom taught 30+ years in Newark at the elementary level. For almost her whole career she had classrooms close to and sometimes more than 40 kids. Without an aide.
She drove 40+ miles 5 days a week from Monmouth County and had dinner for three kids almost every night. We did do pizza on Fridays and/or sometimes going to the Monmouth Mall to eat and for her to shop.
She would laugh at those in the thread complaining about teachers. Literally. LOL
When she asked my Wife (a physics teacher at a magnet HS school in Monmouth County - 4 mile commute) about her class sizes my Wife said 16. My Mom laughed and called that a “snow day.” LOL
Sadly, she said she would have loved the occasional parental involvement/interference as she was like the mother for some kids.
Once again … whose fault is it with kids? School systems, teachers, parents, BOE, politicians or the Administration? Here’s the answer …media access to Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook, or all the garbage on TV? Or those cell phones the 7-8 year olds have to have.kids aren’t the problem here. Adults are the issues.
I'm so grateful you found this thread to enlighten us with your wisdom about the education field.
Most important problem to fix.....tenure. End it immediately. It's just there to protect poor and mediocre teachers.
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