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OT: Chance of a minor snowfall Thurs night/Fri am (3/3-4; go to end of thread)

RU848789

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Debated starting a thread on this for the past couple of days, but since it's been getting some play in the media, figured it was time to start one, especially since many are touting this as a big snowstorm. While a big snowstorm for the I-95 corridor is still possible, it's looking very unlikely; the more likely scenario is a bit of initial snow, followed by mostly rain for the I-95 corridor (maybe ending as snow, as more cold air comes in); well inland would be some snow, still followed by rain in this scenario.

Models over the last day or two were snowier than last night's model runs (or this morning's - although only some of the models run at 6Z) and in the weather game, the most recent runs should be more accurate, as one is closer to the event, with less time for errors to propagate - although having said that, the pieces of energy that will eventually form a storm over the Gulf states, which then turns north (either inland or along the coast), are still offshore and not well sampled, meaning data sparse initial conditions fed into the models, which means high uncertainty - which is why a major snowstorm can't be 100% ruled out right now.

As is often the case 4-5 days before the event starts, model spread is quite high, showing solutions from a cutter that goes west of the Apps (would be all rain, even for interior sections and even for New England/NY ski resorts) to a coastal hugger that comes right up the coast (a few inches of snow to mostly rain for I-95 with more snow than rain well inland, like the Poconos/NW NJ/Hudson Valley). Our "problems" with regard to not getting much snow are both the likely inland track, as well as the lack of cold air.

This may sound a bit like what we had earlier this week with snow to freezing rain and then rain, but the big difference is we don't have very cold air in place at the start - the cold air at the start is marginal for snow, meaning there could be some initial snow (if we get the coastal hugger track), followed by a quick transition to rain, unlike this week, where the cold air held on stubbornly and we had ice after the snow.

We then have the opposite case with next week's storm. Fresh cold air may arrive late in the storm (this week's storm had a huge surge of warm air at the end), changing the rain back to snow, but this type of scenario often doesn't pan out, as the precip often dries up before it's cold enough for snow on the back end.

Also, there is the chance of a rain to snow minor event Sunday night into Monday morning. Looking mostly wet for I-95 with maybe a bit of snow at the end, but this could still change to bring an inch or so of snow to I-95 if enough cold air arrives (and a few inches well N/W of I-95).

Here are some of the usual links...

http://forecast.weather.gov/product...&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

http://forecast.weather.gov/product...&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/47755-february-2016-forecastsdiscoobs/page-24

Original thread title was: "Winter storm Tues (2/23) thru Thurs (2/25) - tornado watch/severe t-storms Weds night" - changed 3/1...
 
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Thanks for a new thread! Mike Wood didn't mention the possibility of snow in the forecast this morning and just said rain, but it is still early. Temps are predicted to be in upper 30's, so it could go either way.
 
5star-Copy-630x280.jpg

Thanks for a new thread! Mike Wood didn't mention the possibility of snow in the forecast this morning and just said rain, but it is still early. Temps are predicted to be in upper 30's, so it could go either way.
Daniel Perry would be proud. Mike Woods is possibly even worse than Lonnie Quinn and Amy Freeze (cue bac running to his girlfriend's defense) - none of these folks have meteorology degees and it shows. He was calling for snow earlier, prematurely, and is now calling for all rain, again, prematurely. It's not entirely his fault, as they only give these guys a couple of minutes and trying to explain the range of possibilities and uncertainties this far out in the 30 seconds someone probably has to talk about a storm 5 days out, out of a 2-minute forecast, is tough (although guys like Nick Gregory and Lee Goldberg manage to do it reasonably well).

Speaking of conveying the range of possibilities and not giving in to the "windshield wiper effect" (models going back and forth), I've been watching Bernie Rayno's (AccuWeather) videos this winter and I like his approach, as he gets into several models and breaks them down. He's still holding to a track just along the coast and thinks the cold air is being underestimated, such that he sees mostly snow inland and a mix along I-95 and mostly rain at the coast. Worth a look...

http://videowall.accuweather.com/de...to-impact-east-coast-next-week?autoStart=true
 
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Graphics at this point may be fun to look at, but any single representation of what's likely to happen will likely be wrong at this point. Now, there are some good graphics out there on potential tracks and looking at a suite of graphics can convey the range of possibilities, but I personally don't think all of that is worth posting in a football board thread on the weather - that's why I post the links to other sources which usually contain that info (like the AmericanWx thread) if people want to explore. But in Tango's defense, when we're close to the storm he does find/post some nice graphics (maybe a little overkill, but that's just my opinion).
 
March 1st is the first day of supervised practice for spring sports in high schools, at least it used to be.
You don't want to see their fields and the kids fun curtailed by snow do you numbers?
 
March 1st is the first day of supervised practice for spring sports in high schools, at least it used to be.
You don't want to see their fields and the kids fun curtailed by snow do you numbers?

It doesn't matter what I want, as what I want has no bearing on the outcome - not worth getting into that discussion, as it tends to derail these threads - would prefer to keep the discussion about the storm, although I can't stop you from trying to bait me.
 
It doesn't matter what I want, as what I want has no bearing on the outcome - not worth getting into that discussion, as it tends to derail these threads - would prefer to keep the discussion about the storm, although I can't stop you from trying to bait me.
I wasn't trying to bait you and I have no bad intent. Obviously you have no control or bearing on the outcome. I was just thinking of the kids...the reality is they have plenty of fun in the snow and March snow goes away quickly anyway.
 
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#s - curious if there is anything on the radar for a bit further out. Flying back into JFK a week from today. Thanks.
 
Daniel Perry would be proud. Mike Woods is possibly even worse than Lonnie Quinn and Amy Freeze (cue bac running to his girlfriend's defense) - none of these folks have meteorology degees and it shows. He was calling for snow earlier, prematurely, and is now calling for all rain, again, prematurely. It's not entirely his fault, as they only give these guys a couple of minutes and trying to explain the range of possibilities and uncertainties this far out in the 30 seconds someone probably has to talk about a storm 5 days out, out of a 2-minute forecast, is tough (although guys like Nick Gregory and Lee Goldberg manage to do it reasonably well).

Speaking of conveying the range of possibilities and not giving in to the "windshield wiper effect" (models going back and forth), I've been watching Bernie Rayno's (AccuWeather) videos this winter and I like his approach, as he gets into several models and breaks them down. He's still holding to a track just along the coast and thinks the cold air is being underestimated, such that he sees mostly snow inland and a mix along I-95 and mostly rain at the coast. Worth a look...

http://videowall.accuweather.com/de...to-impact-east-coast-next-week?autoStart=true
You are just jealous of Woods--how many weathermen have a six pack:
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Bernie Rayno WAS AN EPIC FAIL on the blizzard predicted just 3-6 for NYC a day before it hit

Amy Freeze has outlined the potential that it could snow but as modeled now looks like rain but plenty of time for change.

I wouldn't expect any forecaster to get into a long depth analysis for a 3 three minute weather spot 5 days out considering most of the models are not currently showing a snowstorm for NYC metro
 
It's supposed to be 43 degrees on Tuesday and 45 degrees on Wednesday. And it's predicted to be this warm or warmer for the next 2 weeks. Looks like winter is over!
 
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Bill Evans infuriates me with his over exaggerations.
I think he's quite knowledgable, but his predictions and timeline are atrocious.
Bill is the STAR of ruining peoples outdoor planned activities, I can't tell you how many times I've played a completely dry round of golf after watching his morning "bring all your rain gear" forecast.

Plus his wife tried to sever his penis…LOL
 
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It's supposed to be 43 degrees on Tuesday and 45 degrees on Wednesday. And it's predicted to be this warm or warmer for the next 2 weeks. Looks like winter is over!

Honest question: doesn't it bother you just a little to know that many people don't quite see that you're trolling and actually believe that you're a moron? Once again you've posted something that will likely turn out wrong (just like the last weather thread I started where you said it would be warm and it wasn't and you said we wouldn't get any snow and we did - oh yeah, let's not forget your 4-6" prediction for the January blizzard). While the coming week (after this weekend, which will be quite mild as everyone knows) looks to be close to normal (highs in the mid-40s), the outlook for 8-14 days out is for below normal temps, overall, as per the CPC graphic below - and colder than normal temps are the first step towards - you guessed it - snow.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/


814temp.new.gif
 
I wasn't trying to bait you and I have no bad intent. Obviously you have no control or bearing on the outcome. I was just thinking of the kids...the reality is they have plenty of fun in the snow and March snow goes away quickly anyway.
Yeah, I remember being torn by my love for snow and my love for baseball in March (especially in HS, where we started in early March; if I recall correctly, Little League started in April), growing up, but you're right, most March snowfalls do melt pretty quickly.
 
Bill Evans was the official team weather advisor for Schiano if I remember correctly. Big supporter of RU.
 
Mike Woods is possibly even worse than Lonnie Quinn and Amy Freeze (cue bac running to his girlfriend's defense) - ...
Hey, he's just defending her large..........tracts of land.
 
Graphics at this point may be fun to look at, but any single representation of what's likely to happen will likely be wrong at this point. Now, there are some good graphics out there on potential tracks and looking at a suite of graphics can convey the range of possibilities, but I personally don't think all of that is worth posting in a football board thread on the weather - that's why I post the links to other sources which usually contain that info (like the AmericanWx thread) if people want to explore. But in Tango's defense, when we're close to the storm he does find/post some nice graphics (maybe a little overkill, but that's just my opinion).

Thankyou
 
I wasn't trying to bait you and I have no bad intent. Obviously you have no control or bearing on the outcome. I was just thinking of the kids...the reality is they have plenty of fun in the snow and March snow goes away quickly anyway.
Rain wouldn't help that either. Ground is pretty saturated right now.
 
Bill Evans infuriates me with his over exaggerations.
I think he's quite knowledgable, but his predictions and timeline are atrocious.
Bill is the STAR of ruining peoples outdoor planned activities, I can't tell you how many times I've played a completely dry round of golf after watching his morning "bring all your rain gear" forecast.

Plus his wife tried to sever his penis…LOL
What?????????
 
One time that the snow didn't melt quickly was after the storm of April 6,1982.The Yankees had to postpone their Opening Day from Tuesday until Sunday.
 
While I'd be glad to see winter over, it isn't like we haven't just seen it goes from the forties and fifties into single digits. Just reach 50 degrees doesn't mean much...
 
Daniel Perry would be proud. Mike Woods is possibly even worse than Lonnie Quinn and Amy Freeze (cue bac running to his girlfriend's defense) - none of these folks have meteorology degees and it shows. He was calling for snow earlier, prematurely, and is now calling for all rain, again, prematurely. It's not entirely his fault, as they only give these guys a couple of minutes and trying to explain the range of possibilities and uncertainties this far out in the 30 seconds someone probably has to talk about a storm 5 days out, out of a 2-minute forecast, is tough (although guys like Nick Gregory and Lee Goldberg manage to do it reasonably well).

Speaking of conveying the range of possibilities and not giving in to the "windshield wiper effect" (models going back and forth), I've been watching Bernie Rayno's (AccuWeather) videos this winter and I like his approach, as he gets into several models and breaks them down. He's still holding to a track just along the coast and thinks the cold air is being underestimated, such that he sees mostly snow inland and a mix along I-95 and mostly rain at the coast. Worth a look...

http://videowall.accuweather.com/de...to-impact-east-coast-next-week?autoStart=true


Mr G on Pix11 is pretty good
 
Bill Evans infuriates me with his over exaggerations.
I think he's quite knowledgable, but his predictions and timeline are atrocious.
Bill is the STAR of ruining peoples outdoor planned activities, I can't tell you how many times I've played a completely dry round of golf after watching his morning "bring all your rain gear" forecast.

Plus his wife tried to sever his penis…LOL

Bill Evans pumped up forcast is as pumped up as he is.
 
Debated starting a thread on this for the past couple of days, but since it's been getting some play in the media, figured it was time to start one, especially since many are touting this as a big snowstorm. While a big snowstorm for the I-95 corridor is still possible, it's looking very unlikely; the more likely scenario is a bit of initial snow, followed by mostly rain for the I-95 corridor (maybe ending as snow, as more cold air comes in); well inland would be some snow, still followed by rain in this scenario.

Models over the last day or two were snowier than last night's model runs (or this morning's - although only some of the models run at 6Z) and in the weather game, the most recent runs should be more accurate, as one is closer to the event, with less time for errors to propagate - although having said that, the pieces of energy that will eventually form a storm over the Gulf states, which then turns north (either inland or along the coast), are still offshore and not well sampled, meaning data sparse initial conditions fed into the models, which means high uncertainty - which is why a major snowstorm can't be 100% ruled out right now.

As is often the case 4-5 days before the event starts, model spread is quite high, showing solutions from a cutter that goes west of the Apps (would be all rain, even for interior sections and even for New England/NY ski resorts) to a coastal hugger that comes right up the coast (a few inches of snow to mostly rain for I-95 with more snow than rain well inland, like the Poconos/NW NJ/Hudson Valley). Our "problems" with regard to not getting much snow are both the likely inland track, as well as the lack of cold air.

This may sound a bit like what we had earlier this week with snow to freezing rain and then rain, but the big difference is we don't have very cold air in place at the start - the cold air at the start is marginal for snow, meaning there could be some initial snow (if we get the coastal hugger track), followed by a quick transition to rain, unlike this week, where the cold air held on stubbornly and we had ice after the snow.

We then have the opposite case with next week's storm. Fresh cold air may arrive late in the storm (this week's storm had a huge surge of warm air at the end), changing the rain back to snow, but this type of scenario often doesn't pan out, as the precip often dries up before it's cold enough for snow on the back end.

Also, there is the chance of a rain to snow minor event Sunday night into Monday morning. Looking mostly wet for I-95 with maybe a bit of snow at the end, but this could still change to bring an inch or so of snow to I-95 if enough cold air arrives (and a few inches well N/W of I-95).

Here are some of the usual links...

http://forecast.weather.gov/product...&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

http://forecast.weather.gov/product...&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/47755-february-2016-forecastsdiscoobs/page-24

Models are still all over the place, with several of them now showing two separate events, one on Tuesday afternoon into Weds morning and one Weds night through Thursday. Regardless, most of the models are now showing this to be a rainstorm for the I-95 corridor, with maybe a little snow to start, and a mostly rainstorm for the interior, as there just doesn't seem to be enough cold air available for snow.

However, until and unless the Euro caves - it still shows snow to mix and then rain for I-95 and significant snow inland of I-95 - I'd say wintry weather is still possible, although unlikely as every other model is showing a track just inland to way inland (west of the Apps), all of which would bring essentially all rain for everyone (except way N/W like the Poconos to the Catskills, which would get some snow then mostly rain).

NWS still very unsure but leaning heavily towards a mainly rain event...

THE NEXT BIG WEATHER MAKER IN THE FORECAST LOOKS TO ARRIVE SOMETIME
LATE TUESDAY/WEDNESDAY AND THEN EXIT THE AREA BY LATE
WEDNESDAY/THURSDAY. THERE IS CONSIDERABLE DISPARITY IN THE MODEL
GUIDANCE WHICH STILL LEAD TO DIFFERING SOLUTIONS IN REGARDS TO THE
TRACK AND TIMING OF TWO LOWS MOVING UP FROM THE GULF COAST REGION.
THE ONE THING THAT THEY SEEM TO SHOW THOUGH IS THAT TEMPERATURES
LOOK TO BE ON THE WARMER SIDE WHICH WOULD LEND MORE CONFIDENCE TO A
MAJORITY RAIN EVENT, AND IN MANY AREAS IT COULD END UP BEING HEAVY
RAIN. SOME SNOW OR WINTRY MIX WILL REMAIN POSSIBLE AT THE ONSET OF
THE PRECIPITATION AND MAINLY TO THE NORTH AND WEST OF PHILADELPHIA,
ESPECIALLY TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY AS THE TEMPERATURES MAY DROP
ENOUGH TO ALLOW SOME MIXING TO OCCUR. PRECIPITATION COULD START
MOVING IN AS EARLY AS TUESDAY MORNING ACROSS OUR SOUTHERN AREAS, AND
OVERSPREADING THE AREA THROUGH THE AFTERNOON AND EVENING. RAIN IS
THEN EXPECTED TO CONTINUE THROUGH TUESDAY NIGHT AND INTO WEDNESDAY,
ENDING FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE THE SECOND LOW ARRIVES WEDNESDAY
NIGHT.

IT IS CERTAINLY LOOKING LIKE THE LATE TUESDAY THROUGH EARLY THURSDAY
TIME FRAME WILL BE FAIRLY UNSETTLED AND MANY DETAILS STILL NEED
TO BE WORKED OUT OVER THE COMING DAYS.
 
Models are still all over the place, with several of them now showing two separate events, one on Tuesday afternoon into Weds morning and one Weds night through Thursday. Regardless, most of the models are now showing this to be a rainstorm for the I-95 corridor, with maybe a little snow to start, and a mostly rainstorm for the interior, as there just doesn't seem to be enough cold air available for snow.

However, until and unless the Euro caves - it still shows snow to mix and then rain for I-95 and significant snow inland of I-95 - I'd say wintry weather is still possible, although unlikely as every other model is showing a track just inland to way inland (west of the Apps), all of which would bring essentially all rain for everyone (except way N/W like the Poconos to the Catskills, which would get some snow then mostly rain).

NWS still very unsure but leaning heavily towards a mainly rain event...

THE NEXT BIG WEATHER MAKER IN THE FORECAST LOOKS TO ARRIVE SOMETIME
LATE TUESDAY/WEDNESDAY AND THEN EXIT THE AREA BY LATE
WEDNESDAY/THURSDAY. THERE IS CONSIDERABLE DISPARITY IN THE MODEL
GUIDANCE WHICH STILL LEAD TO DIFFERING SOLUTIONS IN REGARDS TO THE
TRACK AND TIMING OF TWO LOWS MOVING UP FROM THE GULF COAST REGION.
THE ONE THING THAT THEY SEEM TO SHOW THOUGH IS THAT TEMPERATURES
LOOK TO BE ON THE WARMER SIDE WHICH WOULD LEND MORE CONFIDENCE TO A
MAJORITY RAIN EVENT, AND IN MANY AREAS IT COULD END UP BEING HEAVY
RAIN. SOME SNOW OR WINTRY MIX WILL REMAIN POSSIBLE AT THE ONSET OF
THE PRECIPITATION AND MAINLY TO THE NORTH AND WEST OF PHILADELPHIA,
ESPECIALLY TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY AS THE TEMPERATURES MAY DROP
ENOUGH TO ALLOW SOME MIXING TO OCCUR. PRECIPITATION COULD START
MOVING IN AS EARLY AS TUESDAY MORNING ACROSS OUR SOUTHERN AREAS, AND
OVERSPREADING THE AREA THROUGH THE AFTERNOON AND EVENING. RAIN IS
THEN EXPECTED TO CONTINUE THROUGH TUESDAY NIGHT AND INTO WEDNESDAY,
ENDING FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE THE SECOND LOW ARRIVES WEDNESDAY
NIGHT.

IT IS CERTAINLY LOOKING LIKE THE LATE TUESDAY THROUGH EARLY THURSDAY
TIME FRAME WILL BE FAIRLY UNSETTLED AND MANY DETAILS STILL NEED
TO BE WORKED OUT OVER THE COMING DAYS.

The Euro "caved" showing a track towards Cleveland, which is all rain for everyone up to Canada, but a couple of other models moved east, so while I'd say wintry weather from this storm is becoming very unlikely, we have seen stranger shifts and we're still 4 days out, so will continue to track this one - if it looks like this tomorrow night, when I think all the players are on the table, I'd say we're done.
 
Well it's been 19 hours - no update? C'mon slacker!
 
Well it's been 19 hours - no update? C'mon slacker!

Been a little busy, lol. Went to the hoops game for some masochistic reason I can't quite fathom, went to my accountant to check out my taxes for this year, did a huge food shop with the wife, made a nice dinner (lamb chops and noodles, with lots of fresh fruit), and am now relaxing. Checked in earlier today and the snow threat is just about over.

The only reason I hesitate in putting the final nail in the coffin is that the energy for the 2nd part of the storm (Weds/Thurs) is still in the North Pacific and won't be on shore until tomorrow evening, so there's always a chance of a decent shift once we have much better initial conditions. But that's admittedly grasping at straws a bit. I will say, though, that we've seen 250+ mile shifts from 4-5 days out (once in awhile, not regularly) and that's what we'd need for there to be significant snow for I-95.

bac - what you don't get is that half the fun for the weather folks is in the tracking. It's like a soap opera: intrigue, surprise, drama, reprisals, redemption and more (would think people on just as meaningless sports boards would get that)...
 
Been a little busy, lol. Went to the hoops game for some masochistic reason I can't quite fathom, went to my accountant to check out my taxes for this year, did a huge food shop with the wife, made a nice dinner (lamb chops and noodles, with lots of fresh fruit), and am now relaxing. Checked in earlier today and the snow threat is just about over.

The only reason I hesitate in putting the final nail in the coffin is that the energy for the 2nd part of the storm (Weds/Thurs) is still in the North Pacific and won't be on shore until tomorrow evening, so there's always a chance of a decent shift once we have much better initial conditions. But that's admittedly grasping at straws a bit. I will say, though, that we've seen 250+ mile shifts from 4-5 days out (once in awhile, not regularly) and that's what we'd need for there to be significant snow for I-95.

bac - what you don't get is that half the fun for the weather folks is in the tracking. It's like a soap opera: intrigue, surprise, drama, reprisals, redemption and more (would think people on just as meaningless sports boards would get that)...

Almost every model shows an inland solution now, from east of the Apps to friggin' Detroit, lol, except for the Canadian, which shows a track basically over NYC and gives a little front end snow to areas north of I-80, with a bit more north of I-84, but all rain south of 80 - the other models give all rain for the entire area and even up to Canada, with snows being pretty far west (Ohio). It would be a pretty epic reversal at this point to get snow for NJ, but I'll remain only 99% convinced until tomorrow night's models, which will include all the pieces of energy over land.
 
Almost every model shows an inland solution now, from east of the Apps to friggin' Detroit, lol, except for the Canadian, which shows a track basically over NYC and gives a little front end snow to areas north of I-80, with a bit more north of I-84, but all rain south of 80 - the other models give all rain for the entire area and even up to Canada, with snows being pretty far west (Ohio). It would be a pretty epic reversal at this point to get snow for NJ, but I'll remain only 99% convinced until tomorrow night's models, which will include all the pieces of energy over land.
Will it be rain or snow in Vermont? My brother has to travel in Southern Vermont on Wednesday.
 
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