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OT: Cost of shore rentals - will people continue to pay?

One of the “unluckiest” were my Mom’s kids (ME! - LOL) and grandkids as she was offered a house in Bayhead in the early 60’s for a song. And turned it down.

Whenever we go for a ride and dinner at Charlie’s, my kids always say…”Why, Grandma! WHY?” LOL

Btw, the house in question survived Sandy and is probably worth about $3M now.
Not to mid direct the thread- but talk about unlucky. After WW2 my dad was stationed in Alaska. When leaving the service- late 40’s early 50s. He had a homesteading opportunity but he just wanted to get home. A couple of his buddies stayed the extra few years required and each claimed something like 200 acres. A few years later- both were bought out by developers for nearly a million each. We are talking in the 50’s. Why Dad Why…
 
Flipped a condo in Newport, Jersey City. Signed contract in 2005 with Lefrak because I knew they would deliver the building on time, unlike many other condo developers. For some reason, Lefrak was selling the condos at 10% below what I estimated the market value to be. Newport renters were given preference. Then Lefrak opened up sales to the public.

Contract banned flipping or renting for one year, so I marketed it quietly using defunct Hoboken & Jersey City real estate website called Kannekt. Huge amount of interest from Korean buyers. Not Americans of Korean descent, but people in Korea. I negotiated the sale with a woman who didn't speak English. She bought it so her son and his friend could live there. Her son translated the negotiations.

Similar condos trading hands at 2x what I sold it for in 2007. Then, real estate market was beginning to crash so I sold it for a small gain rather than take a chance with renters. Unlike most of the country, Newport condo prices didn't crash.
In 2008/2009, every condo crashed.
 
In 2008/2009, every condo crashed.
Ironically, the condo tower was called The Shore. During the crash, Lefrak was closing hundreds of units at an identical second tower at higher prices the first tower.
 
Know spring lake very very well. In spring lake this is the weakest year for rentals since 2019. And off season rentals are not happeneing.

Everyone in Europe this summer.

It's weird because shore properties are up massively post covid but rents this year are down to almost pre covid levels. . No brainer to rent vs buy.
 
Ironically, the condo tower was called The Shore. During the crash, Lefrak was closing hundreds of units at an identical second tower at higher prices the first tower.
That’s probably because people put up hard deposits.
 
Were doing Marco Island in mid august

Cons - Very Hot, have to fly & rent car

Pros - White sand beaches, warm water, lots to do (wave runners, boat rides, parasailing, etc)

2k for 8 nights for a 2 bedroom fully furnished beachfront condo with a kitchen

Flights for 3 people = $800
Car = $300

Figure dinners, food, activities = $1500 (estimating high)

So that’s $4,500 all in - not cheap, but not crazy expensive

Note, we’d get bored at the jersey shore after 2/3 days, and won’t drive anymore than 3 hours

Briefly considered OCMD, Delaware beaches and Lake George but decided against it

Was also considering Destin but it’s remote and no direct flights
I’ve gone to Marco island the last 3 years. Really not anymore to do there than the jersey shore. Don’t get me wrong, I really liked it but it’s pretty boring town. And the marriot was a boatload to stay at for 8 days
 
I’ve gone to Marco island the last 3 years. Really not anymore to do there than the jersey shore. Don’t get me wrong, I really liked it but it’s pretty boring town. And the marriot was a boatload to stay at for 8 days
We looked there and it was definitely super pricey

I’ve been once, and it was super sleepy, so I’m anticipating getting out at least one day to go to Miami, take a boat ride another day, and do the Everglades tour another day

I like that they also have wave runners associated water sports nearby as well
 
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We looked there and it was definitely super pricey

I’ve been once, and it was super sleepy, so I’m anticipating getting out at least one day to go to Miami, take a boat ride another day, and do the Everglades tour another day

I like that they also have wave runners associated water sports nearby as well
We chartered fishing boat a few times. That was cool. Then you can take the fish to a number it local bars/restaurants and they cook it up for like 13$
 
We chartered fishing boat a few times. That was cool. Then you can take the fish to a number it local bars/restaurants and they cook it up for like 13$
Nice yeah that’s definitely something we are considering. Was it pricey? Is it the book?
 
Nice yeah that’s definitely something we are considering. Was it pricey? Is it the book?
No it wasn’t crazy. Not cheap but not insane. We went twice in the backwater and then once about 30 min out into ocean. Caught the same crap though and we found the backwater fishing in the mangroves to be more fun. Just go to the marina. There are guys everywhere to hire and I’d take them to the snook Inn to get them cooked up
 
No it wasn’t crazy. Not cheap but not insane. We went twice in the backwater and then once about 30 min out into ocean. Caught the same crap though and we found the backwater fishing in the mangroves to be more fun. Just go to the marina. There are guys everywhere to hire and I’d take them to the snook Inn to get them cooked up
Def will do that
Heard the Snook got crushed w the last hurricane there
Loved that place
 
Very possible. We were there last summer so…..
Ever been to Tin City in Naples? Fun for an afternoon/evening with the kids.

Not even sure if it’s still there after the hurricane?
 
Know spring lake very very well. In spring lake this is the weakest year for rentals since 2019. And off season rentals are not happeneing.

Everyone in Europe this summer.

It's weird because shore properties are up massively post covid but rents this year are down to almost pre covid levels. . No brainer to rent vs buy.
Not according to the guest list at some of the parties this weekend.

Unless you meant visitors?
 
Ever been to Tin City in Naples? Fun for an afternoon/evening with the kids.

Not even sure if it’s still there after the hurricane?
Lol yes. I’d say it was fun for 45 seconds. It’s like a flea market in tin can.
 
Lol yes. I’d say it was fun for 45 seconds. It’s like a flea market in tin can.
I liked the alligator thing where you can hold them (they all looked stoned, same with the guy running it - lol), some of the restaurants weren’t bad and the same for the ice cream place.

But the funnest part for the kids could be that jet boat ride.

And yes, I was exaggerating about the amount of time. 😜
 
I liked the alligator thing where you can hold them (they all looked stoned, same with the guy running it - lol), some of the restaurants weren’t bad and the same for the ice cream place.

But the funnest part for the kids could be that jet boat ride.

And yes, I was exaggerating about the amount of time. 😜
Ice cream place definitely was good. I didn’t see alligators or jet boats. Maybe it was me and I rushed everyone route. Lol.
 
Know spring lake very very well. In spring lake this is the weakest year for rentals since 2019. And off season rentals are not happeneing.

Everyone in Europe this summer.

It's weird because shore properties are up massively post covid but rents this year are down to almost pre covid levels. . No brainer to rent vs buy.
I think it really depends on the town. In South Jersey we bought a house last year, we used the old rents from the previous seller. Did some redecorating before the 22 season, new pics, upped prices by 15% and all 18 weeks were booked by end of Oct for 2023. Year 1 was cost neutral.

2023 - second year is projected at a slight profit even with us using 2 weeks. We plan to do some more upgrades, raising rent again 15% for 24' season and half our weeks are already booked. We started getting calls in Feb 23 for Summer of 24.

2024 we are projected to break even and that's with us using 3 weeks.

Additionally, we love the off season and are down there all the time, much more than we ever imagined.

Could things cool off? Absolutely. But I was able to look up the history on the house for its entire rental history and rates never went down year to year, even after the 2008 recession. Additionally, in our town owners listing homes to rent since covid, is down close to 50%. Most new buyers are not renting they are using them. Now with WFH changing I'm sure that will adjust.
 
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I think it really depends on the town. In South Jersey we bought a house last year, we used the old rents from the previous seller. Did some redecorating before the 22 season, new pics, upped prices by 15% and all 18 weeks were booked by end of Oct for 2023. Year 1 was cost neutral.

2023 - second year is projected at a slight profit even with us using 2 weeks. We plan to do some more upgrades, raising rent again 15% for 24' season and half our weeks are already booked. We started getting calls in Feb 23 for Summer of 24.

2024 we are projected to break even and that's with us using 3 weeks.

Additionally, we love the off season and are down there all the time, much more than we ever imagined.

Could things cool off? Absolutely. But I was able to look up the history on the house for its entire rental history and rates never went down year to year, even after the 2008 recession. Additionally, in our town owners listing homes to rent since covid, is down close to 50%. Most new buyers are not renting they are using them. Now with WFH changing I'm sure that will adjust.
Do you know the rough age of the families booking? What town?
 
I’ve gone to Marco island the last 3 years. Really not anymore to do there than the jersey shore. Don’t get me wrong, I really liked it but it’s pretty boring town. And the marriot was a boatload to stay at for 8 days
JW or Crystal Shores? We stayed at the latter twice. Nice place, plenty of room in the villas.
 
We were looking at that place for next winter but I heard it’s a battle for lounge chairs on the beach. Opted for a VRBO a little further south from there
Crystal Shores didn't have a beach overcrowding issue when we were there, but it's possible. However, we normally move around quite a bit. During each of our trips, we did 2 private charters to Keywaydin, which we love. We also enjoy the Tigertail beach area, so we don't spend too much time at the resort beach. We book Crystal Shores because we love the villas and like that section of the island (for restaurants and stores).
 
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Crystal Shores didn't have a beach overcrowding issue when we were there, but it's possible. However, we normally move around quite a bit. During each of our trips, we did 2 private charters to Keywaydin, which we love. We also enjoy the Tigertail beach area, so we don't spend too much time at the resort beach. We book Crystal Shores because we love the villas and like that section of the island (for restaurants and stores).
Our trip there a few years ago was canceled because of one of the hurricanes but this is probably Marriott Vacation Club’s top property. I’ve stayed at maybe 15 of them with our ownership and I hear nothing but rave reviews. Can’t beat the villas you can get through them at all of their properties.
 
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Our trip there a few years ago was canceled because of one of the hurricanes but this is probably Marriott Vacation Club’s top property. I’ve stayed at maybe 15 of them with our ownership and I hear nothing but rave reviews. Can’t beat the villas you can get through them at all of their properties.
+1
This is a trip that is somewhat unlucky for us as well. We have gone twice, but two other planned trips got cancelled due to a hurricane (Irma?) and then COVID (spring break 2020). So, we are only batting .500 with Marco Island!
 
I think people severe underestimate the gargantuan amount of liquid assets people have laying around.

Shore prices have room to move a LOT higher, at least 1-2k over the next 5 years
 
I think people severe underestimate the gargantuan amount of liquid assets people have laying around.

Shore prices have room to move a LOT higher, at least 1-2k over the next 5 years
Though, it is funny how $500k of liquid assets can look big when you are 35 with 2 kids under 10. So, dropping 20k for a week at the shore and then anther 10-20 for a winter vaca to a Caribbean island does't seem like a big deal. Until college shows up and then the count down to retirement.
 
My friends moved to Naples from North Jersey several years ago. I'd be very leary of vacationing there in July or August. The beaches have been plagued with the red tide the past several years which causes massive fish kills and terrible resulting stink. It's so bad that it can evern irritate your eyes and nose. Even if there is no red tide, most people can't tolerate the heat on the beach past noon.
I would take that over going into fecal bacteria waters that you can’t see your toes in two feet of it then to add the insult to injury of actually having to pay to access the beach. Don’t even want to talk about parking.

Having grown up in NJ, never understood the summer craze to go “down the shore” to sit in traffic for “meh” beaches. I can think of 50 other beaches up and down the east coast or a 2-3 hour plane ride away that gives you greater value in a number of ways for the money spend on you and family. Don’t get me wrong enjoyed going to visit Belmar, Pt. Pleasant, Wildwood and Cape May when crowds were bearable midweek but I’d rather drive to Del, VA beach, OBX, SC, South FL, or fly to Caribbean any day of the week than pay premium for mediocre beach culture driven up in price by Manhattanites.

GO RU
 
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I would take that over going into fecal bacteria waters that you can’t see your toes in two feet of it then to add the insult to injury of actually having to pay to access the beach. Don’t even want to talk about parking.

Having grown up in NJ, never understood the summer craze to go “down the shore” to sit in traffic for “meh” beaches. I can think of 50 other beaches up and down the east coast or a 2-3 hour plane ride away that gives you greater value in a number of ways for the money spend on you and family. Don’t get me wrong enjoyed going to visit Belmar, Pt. Pleasant, Wildwood and Cape May when crowds were bearable midweek but I’d rather drive to Del, VA beach, OBX, SC, South FL, or fly to Caribbean any day of the week than pay premium for mediocre beach culture driven up in price by Manhattanites.

GO RU
driving to SC or S FL? no effing way. Del, Va Beach and Del are within driving distance.
 
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driving to SC or S FL? no effing way. Del, Va Beach and Del are within driving distance.
NJ beaches are fine. Locals know where to go to avoid crowds and problems. Gulf Coast beaches are pretty at sunset but boring AF. And the same types of problems exist as in NJ beaches from Miami to Ft Lauderdale. The propensity of Jersey people to shit on Jersey is funny
 
NJ beaches are fine. Locals know where to go to avoid crowds and problems. Gulf Coast beaches are pretty at sunset but boring AF. And the same types of problems exist as in NJ beaches from Miami to Ft Lauderdale. The propensity of Jersey people to shit on Jersey is funny
I was in Seaside Park mid-July for a week and was literally swimming next to schools of sting rays in clean aquamarine waters on a clean beach.

Joe P.
 
NJ beaches are fine. Locals know where to go to avoid crowds and problems. Gulf Coast beaches are pretty at sunset but boring AF. And the same types of problems exist as in NJ beaches from Miami to Ft Lauderdale. The propensity of Jersey people to shit on Jersey is funny
Some will always try to show they're above it all.
 
I would take that over going into fecal bacteria waters that you can’t see your toes in two feet of it then to add the insult to injury of actually having to pay to access the beach.

You do realize our water is not blue/green and murky because it's dirty, right? Instead, you do know it's nutrient rich (like plankton) because it's cooler. Where as Carribean waters are basically ocean deserts devoid of any nutrients. Also, our Ocean floor is a fine dark silt as opposed to a coarse light-colored coral. Not only color differences but, fine silt kicks up during waves and is suspended the other does not. You knew all this right?
 
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I was in Seaside Park mid-July for a week and was literally swimming next to schools of sting rays in clean aquamarine waters on a clean beach.

Joe P.
Water did seem more clear this year. Are you sure it’s sting rays? I think it’s flounders. people were fishing off the beach and catching them.
 
I need you to book my next vacation - 6 people shorehouse $4k...6 people Caribbean - same money??? That 4k would be each and not include airfair.
Was just looking, you can’t get a decent 4bd house in lbi for under $6k.

And for $6k the place is kinda junky with no view and walk to the beach.
 
Was just looking, you can’t get a decent 4bd house in lbi for under $6k.

And for $6k the place is kinda junky with no view and walk to the beach.
How much for a "decent" house? Maybe standards have been raised, and to each their own, but could not imagine dropping $4K, and certainly never $6K for a one week rental.
 
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I was in Seaside Park mid-July for a week and was literally swimming next to schools of sting rays in clean aquamarine waters on a clean beach.

Joe P.
Stone Harbor beaches were beautiful this season (water and sand). Seven Mile island had a replenishment project earlier this year.
 
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Was just looking, you can’t get a decent 4bd house in lbi for under $6k.

And for $6k the place is kinda junky with no view and walk to the beach.
I think what happened is during and post pandemic people weren't traveling and if they took a vacation it was close to home. The shore real estate folks used that to charge ungodly prices for rentals. Now people are vacationing far away from home again but owners are refusing to bring prices back to pre pandemic levels.
 
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