The CLA is a strong car - but again, you have to ask yourself what you're looking for. It's competing against the A3, where is loses in absolutely every category except "Is it a Mercedes?".
OT: Midsize Luxury Cars
- Thread starter theRU
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The CLA is a strong car - but again, you have to ask yourself what you're looking for. It's competing against the A3, where is loses in absolutely every category except "Is it a Mercedes?".
Strong car? Every review i read basically says the ride sucks, under powered, tacky infotainment, but its cheap, looks good and has an MB badge. If you slapped a ford badge on it nobody would buy the damn thing.
I drove one, I thought it was fine. It's definitely underpowered. Merc's infotainment systems suck across the entire lineup.
If definitely looks good (at the cost of rear seat headroom). People buy Mercs for the badge. There isn't anything about the CLA that will discourage Daddy buying one for Buffy's graduation.
For you? No. Don't do that.
If definitely looks good (at the cost of rear seat headroom). People buy Mercs for the badge. There isn't anything about the CLA that will discourage Daddy buying one for Buffy's graduation.
For you? No. Don't do that.
Im def not looking at them. I just wanted your opinion on (in todays market) a 32-38K MB will cause long term damage to a brand. They have to cheap out somewhere, and should premium brands be putting out cars that don't cut it from a quality standpoint?? Its what got GM into trouble. In 20 years could we be looking at these cars as their version of the Chevette.
I don't get your point. Mercedes has always had an entry-level model. It used to be the C-class, which was moved up market, the same way Audi moved the A4 and Cadillac moved the CLS. Luxury brands have to have entry-level models, for two reasons - one, they attract new buyers to the showrooms and build build brand loyalty and, two, they're generally the high volume vehicles.
girlfriend has one, not underpowered by any stretch, great ride etc etc.... There are things I don't like about it but it's nothing like the reviews you describe here (imho)
The CLA 250 is absolutely underpowered. You've been driving the wrong cars.
Have you been driving hondas all your life? If the answer is yes, then you dont know what power is.
http://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz/cla-class
Having entry level models is important, but i think they've gone a step lower than in the past IMO
these entry level cars are also a great way to put the underpowered higher fuel economy engines in to meet CAFE standards. if MB can move 10% of it's monthly sales in CLA's with the 26/38 MPG fuel economy numbers and another 10% in the GLA with similar numbers, they can still put out those monster V8's that sell at much lower volumes. add in what RU4Real mentioned before about building brand loyalty. get someone in a CLA at age 30, watch them graduate to a C or an E class, add in a GLE once they have kids, and maybe an SL or SLK in retirement...and you have a customer for life.
I'm fairly confident I know what power is and the lack thereof feels like. I think the car is geared towards women, it's perfect for them. I've driven it numerous times and dont' feel it's underpowered for what it is. It's a cheap Mercedes geared towards women and/or cost conscious individuals who want a 'marquee' name
I love the Jag however and recently test drove the R coupe which was pretty nice. I also like the 4 door XF.
I'm a walking example of brand devaluation. I have no business having a Mercedes (my wife wanted it), but the lease was only about $150 more per month than the RAV 4 I was turning in and she would. not. shut. up. about it. I wanted a Nissan Rogue (I saw one for $99 a month and 0 down).
To add to my devaluation point. These premium brands are becoming all to common. I think BMW is actually starting to hurt for sales because they've fallen into the old GM trap of need to sell tons of cars. Its an issue when a 3 series is as common as an accord. I was also surprised that when i was shopping cars at BMW and MB and even Audi, i didnt' even have to negotiate and they were already marking cars down 10% off sticker on the 3, 4, 5 series, The C the E and GLE, The A6 For audi.
I could be wrong but i'm sensing some trouble down the road for them if they keep this up.
What trouble?
In europe those same companies make or used to make everyday drivers. So BMW and MB made everything from really cheap cars to 6 figure high end stuff.
BMS and MB never brought those cars to the US market before because they felt no one wanted a cheap BMW or MB, Nowadays, every "luxury" maker has an entry level car except for the true luxury brands that start at 6 figures.
The market has changed. Before if you wanted an affordable BMW or MB you just brought a used one for the price of a Honda or Toyota, now you can lease a brand new one for just $150 more or less a month with near zero maintenance.
i guess you didnt read my post. Its not a good sign when your dealerships have to discount by 10% before you even open your mouth. Thats what GM was doing in the 90s to keep volume high. It catches up long term and isn't sustainable.
Can't compare what happens in Germany to the US. People buy german cars because they think they're better and are a status symbol. In germany they buy german because they feel they're the best and they're german.
Once the status symbol aspect is gone in the us market, they will lose sales. As for whether or not that happens is debatable. Call me a nationalist for wanting (expecting) domestic auto makers to step up and show the world what American Luxury is all about.
You're guilty of a basic math error. Sales are up for all the German brands, Audi is through. the. roof.
For the dealers it's all about moving units. They have an invoice cost they have to hit, out the door, but they're mostly compensated on units sold - the more units sold, the higher the manufacturer holdback number per unit.
also, to the devaluation point...
if you leave the Northeast and the wealthy areas of the country, BMW's, Benzes and Audi's are much rarer to see on the road. Hell, even when I was out in Pittsburgh for work, German luxury cars aren't ubiquitous at all.
if you leave the Northeast and the wealthy areas of the country, BMW's, Benzes and Audi's are much rarer to see on the road. Hell, even when I was out in Pittsburgh for work, German luxury cars aren't ubiquitous at all.
but that lends to add credibility to his post as the brand gets devalued this way by increasing the number on the road disproportionate for what is normally considered luxury. Unless you are buying a 7 series BMW or the select MB, how anyone considers them luxury high end is beyond me. I see more beamers and mb's on the road than chevies. These two are becoming 'cherokee like' in terms of eyeballs on the road.
I do agree with you assessment on out the door goals for the dealer however, they just want to move product
respectfully, you think a place like Pittsburgh is going to have a lot of foreign cars on the road? That town is run by unions and towns typically run by unions do not have high foreign sales
Am I? I'm just observing that this sounds alot like the 90's. The dealers are making money yes. But what happens to long term values when you are slashing prices like this? Your consumers start to expect these sales and rebate levels. BMW is now offering 0% for 72 months on CPO demo cars. You get to a point where you are significantly devaluing your product. Its not sustainable. When the resale values get hurt to a point because the used car market is over saturated with your cars, Those leases no longer stay cheap and affordable. You then find yourself slashing prices even more because you still desire to keep volume high. Its a viscous cycle and exactly the same thing that i remember killing Detroit.
It may not manifest itself in the next 5 years, but long term my outlook would be very bearish.
As far as how VW ( Audi) keep selling cars in the US is mind boggling. I still for the life of me can't understand how the american consumer is allowing them to get away with fraud.
there's a lot more places in the country like Pittsburgh than like the I-95 corridor or SF to San Diego stretch of I-5...so yea, you're not going to see nearly as many foreign cars on the road in most of the country. that's my point. you only see it as devaluation because they're common in the richest parts of the country.
think about that for a second......
you are not devaluing your brand in middle America and you are not making your nut in middle America. You will devalue your brand in the high populated, higher income and higher cost areas of the country. The only places I've seen a noticeable lack of these kinds of cars is in heavy union towns/cities.
regardless, it's a good discussion with points on both sides. :)
The whole conversation about "devaluing the brand" is stupid. Every high-production manufacturer has entry-level cars and halo cars. A CLA 250 doesn't "devalue" Mercedes and it doesn't discourage the few people who have the coin for an S 550. The A3 doesn't discourage people who are thinking about an R8 anymore than a Sonic discourages would-be 'Vette customers.
And you don't "see more beamers and mb's on the road than chevies". Again - please do math before you position yourself into the conversation.
Thanks for reminding me why i had you on my ignore list. You can't have a disagreement without turning into a pompous arrogant asshat fitting of the audi you drive. Later loser.
MODS. I'll gladly take a ban for calling him out. Its worth every minute. Thank you!
lol... You can disagree all you want, I maintain that it's a stupid discussion. To suggest that the brands are being devalued would more than imply - it would, in fact, require - that sales, showroom visits, average sale price, etc., are in decline. They are not. The luxury car brands, at least the Germans, are doing great business.
You're just wrong. Sorry.
And TBH, I'm proud of you forsaking the golf cart for some entry-level German iron. Damn proud.
Hey if you are going to go with an alternative manufacturer, you should consider an American made vehicle. Perhaps one of these? You will never have to fight for a prime parking spot or worry about snowy roads:
Oh, I forget this was about mid-size not full size. So perhaps this instead? you can probably get a used one from your local SWAT team.
What is the MPG on these?
Mercedes is the top of the luxury tier - it is its own ultra-premium brand (funnily enough considering who returned to posting in this very thread). It won't be devalued because of the CLA. That car will earn it young, long-lasting customers, though. Come back when it starts selling a blocky Scion knockoff for $15K and maybe you'll have an argument.
That's just a dime-a-dozen Eurohatch. They love those as much as weird, high-roof combis.
I'm thinking something more "urban" with tinted windows standard.
I'm thinking something more "urban" with tinted windows standard.
I guess their marketing really worked on you! LOL
In Germany, they sell cars that start in the $20,000's, a few models at that. They just are not released over here. Plus they do make Smart cars in the states to complete with the BMW made mini.
Not just in Germany, but all over Europe. It's a very good point to be made that the least expensive Audis, BMWs and Mercs sold here are not the least expensive cars they make.
If anyone is interested, this Car & Driver comparison test between the A3, CLA 250 and 228i is a really good read. Spoiler Alert - they trashed the last-place Mercedes.
No, not marketing, product. Mercedes has models above the other luxury brands, product that competes with Bentley and Rolls.
We're not talking about Germany ... or Smart, which is a separate badge. We're talking about Mercedes' US branding.
Mercedes also has utility vans and some of the most rugged off-roaders in the world, both of which are known here to some extent. It's still the top of the pack in luxury branding.
Yes, the highest end MB can complete with the "entry level" Bentley and Rolls, but those companies start at that point and go up from there. That is apples and oranges. You shouldn't even go there. That is the world where the Acura NSX which starts at $167,000 is consider a good "bargain", since it is so much cheaper than other supercars.
A middle class person can afford a MB or BMW, few people can afford Bentley,Lambo, Aston Martin, etc. Those are the cars of the ultra rich. Comparing the two is like comparing Red lobster to a michelin star seafood restaurant. Sure they both sell lobsters but it is not really the same thing.:sunglasses:
It also has nothing to do with any car that anyone here could ever afford in their lifetimes or Rutgers Stadium would be named after them :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Obviously, you haven't seen the S Class Maybach trim levels.
The Pullman might just be the most luxurious car on the market, with the pedigree to match.
I'm not sure that your point has anything to do with what we're talking about. TheRU's point was about image and branding, not about what the majority of people are buying.
ASTON martin released a rebadged Toyota subcompact a few years ago. Do you think less of the brand because of that? No, because the rest of its line has defined the brand and that was just a very xlear way of meeting fleet emissions standards. Halo cars offset any image problems entry level models might create, to a point. Mercedes has nothing to worry about. American brands, oth, don"t have that halo product, though Caddy is getting there ... years later.
The Pullman might just be the most luxurious car on the market, with the pedigree to match.
I'm not sure that your point has anything to do with what we're talking about. TheRU's point was about image and branding, not about what the majority of people are buying.
ASTON martin released a rebadged Toyota subcompact a few years ago. Do you think less of the brand because of that? No, because the rest of its line has defined the brand and that was just a very xlear way of meeting fleet emissions standards. Halo cars offset any image problems entry level models might create, to a point. Mercedes has nothing to worry about. American brands, oth, don"t have that halo product, though Caddy is getting there ... years later.
