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OT: Real Estate Question - Toms River/Brick and area

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People who have not spent any time in the various parts of Arizona, have no idea how diverse the terrain and climate is throughout the state. It gets cold in the desert at night! I related the story here that in early December 2023, we got stranded at Chase field after a concert, and we walked 4 miles back to our car. It was freezing in Phoenix. Holbrook is due East of Flagstaff, where it gets very cold, and they get a lot of snow. One other thing that is a running joke in our family. Years ago I related to some older dude who was from the South, and he asked me why the heck anyone would want to live in Arizona because "they ain't got no trees there!" Whenever we are out on a hike in a forest area in Arizona, we bring that line up.

San Diego is a special place, and I'm talking about the city, but I'm sure the surrounding areas are great too. Closest one can get to a near perfect climate. The nice part about visitors, as fsg2 said is that you get to meet a lot of people from all over the country. In Sedona, I think we have run into people from every other B1G team. Mostly folks from Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin.
Back when we were going to OV’s with Kevin- Fall of 04-early 05…everywhere we went- weather sucked. Rained in Florida both visits, snowed in Atlanta, etc…so, Valentine’s Day 05- I decided to surprise the Mrs on a 4 day weekend to the one place with perfect weather. Booked the Hotel Del Coronado. First class flight.
We get there and it was the worst rain they saw in a decade…non stop rain 3 of the 4 days. 9 inches of rain…go figure
 
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Was able to get rid of all the Eagles crap that came with the house- they left a round var table stand with 2 bar stools with the eagle logo( brand new condition) a framed Jersey and maybe 3-4 nice photos framed on the wall.
Our Stanley Steamer guy was there yesterday and he and his Dad are huge fans.
Got an extra $250 off the price of doing the Hardwood floors and carpets in exchange..,and he helped me carry a huge glass dining room table top out to the garage so I can sell it too!
Move in day is this Friday
 
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I will have to tell her she does not know what she is talking about.

That has always been one of my favorite hobbies since we were kids.


LOL. She will appreciate it.

SH and Avalon are actually pretty similar. Problem with SH is it is half the size of Avalon but the two towns always try to match or one up each other. The smaller town will always lose when it comes to spending.

One problem with most shore towns is 95%+ of the tax payers dont live in town and can't vote. It is a handful of locals who actually control everything. One advantage of absentee owners is the schools have so few students and the town saves a ton on police in the off season. SH only had 39 kids in the school last year.

There have been some debacles but I see a lot of the same chit in WW, SH, Avalon, and SIC. Locals love spending other people's tax money.
 
Noticed my typing/spelling has been horrific lately. Sheesh- hear/here.

Phoenix downtown is boring. Like Cincinnati's downtown. The action in Arizona is well north. Flagstaff is a great small/medium sized city, but it gets cold and snowy there. We enjoy Sedona, but there is zero night life there. As I said, no place is perfect. Not sure if true for Phoenix, but the Sedona area and surrounding areas (Cottonwood/Prescott) is now over run with California expats, and they are special. We blend out there (at least we think we do), get into our hiking and mountain biking, and enjoying one of the most beautiful parts of the country. Sedona gets hot, but not crazy like Phoenix.

We are spoiled living in NJ. It costs a lot, and we have all 4 seasons (which some like, though maybe not this week). But there's probably like 100 interesting downtowns and many good places with nightlife, and expats are mostly international bringing delicious food. Even the NY and PA ones, lol.
 
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My Family migrated to Middletown a few yrs ago to a 55+. They landed just over the canal. Insane to see the explosion of himes over there. They love everything about it except the food. Restaurants and grocery stores are weak.
 
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My Family migrated to Middletown a few yrs ago to a 55+. They landed just over the canal. Insane to see the explosion of himes over there. They love everything about it except the food. Restaurants and grocery stores are weak.
yeah- it is scary when you even look at uber eats and the top rated in almost every category is a chain. Though, downtown Middletown on Mainstreet looks like it may have a few nice places? Though, good news is if you go an hour in any direction - you do have NJ, Phily and Balt
 
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there were a few decent spots nearby. Cantwell and la casa pasta are the two I've enjoyed. Theres some good waterfront spots in Chesapeake city as well
 
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Here is one for you



It is probably a when not if as demographics change in the towns.

Why would it change because that city would become the most populated city in the State and the group that controlled power would be the most powerful city in the State
That proposal is so poorly written. Has a zero percent chance of becoming reality in that capacity. No chance that Lakewood would be able to merge with surrounding towns.

They would be better off continuing to be a drag on all of the surrounding towns (brick Toms River etc…)than attempting to merge and be forced to share resources and dilute their demographic dominance.

Interesting they have 5 bullet points in the proposal and they have fought to be excluded from being accountable to all of these over the years.
 
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That proposal is so poorly written. Has a zero percent chance of becoming reality in that capacity. No chance that Lakewood would be able to merge with surrounding towns.

They would be better off continuing to be a drag on all of the surrounding towns (brick Toms River etc…)than attempting to merge and be forced to share resources and dilute their demographic dominance.
Was that proposal written for the Onion?
 
If demographics continue to change and the leaders of the Orthodox determine it is in their interest to have one city, it will change.

Voters decide and you do not need the majority of the population to make changes you need the majority of the voting population.

It really depends on when the voting population in each town changes to Orthodox control and what Orthodox leadership determines is best.
 
If demographics continue to change and the leaders of the Orthodox determine it is in their interest to have one city, it will change.

Voters decide and you do not need the majority of the population to make changes you need the majority of the voting population.

It really depends on when the voting population in each town changes to Orthodox control and what Orthodox leadership determines is best.
Do you really think any of those towns in the proposed merger would want anything to do with Lakewood?
 
If demographics continue to change and the leaders of the Orthodox determine it is in their interest to have one city, it will change.

Voters decide and you do not need the majority of the population to make changes you need the majority of the voting population.

It really depends on when the voting population in each town changes to Orthodox control and what Orthodox leadership determines is best.
So you think one of the largest municipalities in the state in Toms River is going to roll over and allow themselves to be annexed? Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhtttt!!!!
 
I think you are missing the part where I say once the Orthodox are the voting majority in those towns.

And if Orthodox leadership wants it to happen
 
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I think you are missing the part where I say once the Orthodox are the voting majority in those towns.
You posted a proposal with an immediate call to action. Meaning the intention is now. The orthodox will not be voting majority in Jackson Toms River or Brick any time soon. The issue is you can only claim anti semitism when you are the minority. When you become the majority the rules you have skirted for many decades, you are now accountable.

This would be the absolute worst case scenario for everyone involved. Most specifically the Lakewood orthodox community.
 
You posted a proposal with an immediate call to action. Meaning the intention is now. The orthodox will not be voting majority in Jackson Toms River or Brick any time soon. The issue is you can only claim anti semitism when you are the minority. When you become the majority the rules you have skirted for many decades, you are now accountable.

This would be the absolute worst case scenario for everyone involved. Most specifically the Lakewood orthodox community.
Did you miss that with that post I wrote -
It is probably a when not if as demographics change in the towns.

Why would it change because that city would become the most populated city in the State and the group that controlled power would be the most powerful city in the State.

I never said it will happen immediately because I don't think it will. I posted to show the idea is out there and in the future is possible.
 
Did you miss that with that post I wrote -
It is probably a when not if as demographics change in the towns.

Why would it change because that city would become the most populated city in the State and the group that controlled power would be the most powerful city in the State.

I never said it will happen immediately because I don't think it will. I posted to show the idea is out there and in the future is possible.
Of course the idea is out there. It’s written about in the Old Testament. Just because they want it doesn’t mean that it has any chance of happening. All you need to do is look at the addendum to the article. They didn’t even know that Howell is not in the same county as Lakewood. You have a better chance of this ending in violence than court proceedings. People do strange things when family and property are threatened.
 
You posted a proposal with an immediate call to action. Meaning the intention is now. The orthodox will not be voting majority in Jackson Toms River or Brick any time soon. The issue is you can only claim anti semitism when you are the minority. When you become the majority the rules you have skirted for many decades, you are now accountable.

This would be the absolute worst case scenario for everyone involved. Most specifically the Lakewood orthodox community.

It seems like in Jackson it's got to be a sizeable number

In TR and Brick you have decent number of people with second homes registered elsewhere which creates a different dynamic

Howell you have enough people who live nowhere near Lakewood that would block it

I was reading in Loch Arbour they had a big showdown and a bunch of voters with second homes moved registration to NJ from Brooklyn.
 
It seems like in Jackson it's got to be a sizeable number

In TR and Brick you have decent number of people with second homes registered elsewhere which creates a different dynamic

Howell you have enough people who live nowhere near Lakewood that would block it

I was reading in Loch Arbour they had a big showdown and a bunch of voters with second homes moved registration to NJ from Brooklyn.
Toms River and brick do not have large transient populations. Most people that have homes in Toms River and brick are full time residents. And both have huge 55 an over populations that would Vote in vast numbers against any of this. Loch arbour voting registrations is being investigated for voter fraud. As stated earlier Howell is a no go to be included in this nonsense because it is in Monmouth county.

Toms River and Jackson are huge geographic and populations that do not align with the needs and will of Lakewood.

Not saying I like the mayor in Toms River think he’s self serving but this is a recent article about his approach to being forced to bend the knee to others.

 
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Wasn't there a proposal floating around about the donut hole towns a few years ago? NJ has had many times complained about having to many municipalities. I realize the 5 northern Ocean County towns are not usually considered in that discussion but if the property tax issue rises its head again and the discussion about having more towns than needed is a hot issue you never know what is on the table.

The new town would most likely be a republican town anyway and if the Orthodox say we want this and if we do not get it, then send their voters to vote democratic it is possible. Heck the Assembly District voted out a republican assemblyman and the new assemblyman is a democrat who happens to be Orthodox. I would say he is more Orthodox than democrat.
 
Wasn't there a proposal floating around about the donut hole towns a few years ago? NJ has had many times complained about having to many municipalities. I realize the 5 northern Ocean County towns are not usually considered in that discussion but if the property tax issue rises its head again and the discussion about having more towns than needed is a hot issue you never know what is on the table.

The new town would most likely be a republican town anyway and if the Orthodox say we want this and if we do not get it, then send their voters to vote democratic it is possible. Heck the Assembly District voted out a republican assemblyman and the new assemblyman is a democrat who happens to be Orthodox. I would say he is more Orthodox than democrat.
Do you think costs are down and property taxes are getting better in Lakewood? Combining towns would just cause the financial problems to spread. Best to hold the line and keep the damage contained as much as possible.
 
I don’t know any towns that would voluntarily want to merge with Lakewood

As stated before, that town has been ruined many times over
 
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Do you think costs are down and property taxes are getting better in Lakewood? Combining towns would just cause the financial problems to spread. Best to hold the line and keep the damage contained as much as possible.
None of that matters if the Orthodox leaders want it and there are enough Orthodox voters in the 5 towns. What are the demographics at some future date will decide that.

I think you would need about 150,000 Orthodox voters between the 5 towns based on current population and voter registrations.
 
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None of that matters if the Orthodox leaders want it and there are enough Orthodox voters in the 5 towns. What are the demographics at some future date will decide that.
Your take on all things Lakewood/Orthdox are bizarre to me. Toms River, Brick, Jackson are some of the largest townships in the state geographically. Their populations are not hurting either. Toms River and Jackson have both been in the news lately regarding some financial issues within the town. I speak regulary with politicians that represent those towns. They do not want anything to do with Lakewood. They all pretty much point to that town and that demographic as being the issue why these towns are having a fiscal shortfall.

Adding weight to the 200lb anchor dragging them down would do nothing more than force multiple towns into insolvancy.
 
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The doughnut thing allows municipalities to merge if they both pass a referendum. The Princeton's did this a few years back. Murphy also spoke boldly about consolidation of school boards if a muni had more than one ie: Fair haven k-8 & Rfh would he consolidated w Rumson to make a unified k-12. This never got legs unfort. Trump EO'd a school choice act which may bring forward some semblance of that, time will tell.

Back to lakewood, no neighboring town will merge w lakewood. Given the geography of neighboring towns, it won't happen. If it was next to Allenhurst or loch arbor or some 1 sq mile muni maybe. If towns nearby were smart they would he passing anti dormitory bills that would quash expansion into their muni before it even started. It's too late for Jackson, brick, TR and Howell. But if I'm an elected official in Freehold, wall, Manalapan, etc I'd have passed something years ago. There's simply no stopping the expansion of that community. And sadly, they operate with the faith that Jewish law trumps our domestic law.
 
The doughnut thing allows municipalities to merge if they both pass a referendum. The Princeton's did this a few years back. Murphy also spoke boldly about consolidation of school boards if a muni had more than one ie: Fair haven k-8 & Rfh would he consolidated w Rumson to make a unified k-12. This never got legs unfort. Trump EO'd a school choice act which may bring forward some semblance of that, time will tell.

Back to lakewood, no neighboring town will merge w lakewood. Given the geography of neighboring towns, it won't happen. If it was next to Allenhurst or loch arbor or some 1 sq mile muni maybe. If towns nearby were smart they would he passing anti dormitory bills that would quash expansion into their muni before it even started. It's too late for Jackson, brick, TR and Howell. But if I'm an elected official in Freehold, wall, Manalapan, etc I'd have passed something years ago. There's simply no stopping the expansion of that community. And sadly, they operate with the faith that Jewish law trumps our domestic law.
Mostly agree, but being in Monmouth County will at least slow down their expansion there, as opposed to some of the other towns in Ocean County where it's a full-blown invasion
 
I think what you are missing is the possibility that at some future time these current politicians are no longer being elected because the Orthodox community and the towns are now the voting majority even if they are not the population majority.

Everything that exists now will be subject to a different voting bloc and that voting block decides. When that happens what does that bloc want.

I was speaking to both a long time Jackson pol and a business owner who told me once the Orthodox have 10 -15,000 voters they will win most elections in Jackson. And in some elections, they will still vote in a non-Orthodox as long as that person delivers for them.
 
I think what you are missing is the possibility that at some future time these current politicians are no longer being elected because the Orthodox community and the towns are now the voting majority even if they are not the population majority.

Everything that exists now will be subject to a different voting bloc and that voting block decides. When that happens what does that bloc want.

I was speaking to both a long time Jackson pol and a business owner who told me once the Orthodox have 10 -15,000 voters they will win most elections in Jackson. And in some elections, they will still vote in a non-Orthodox as long as that person delivers for them.
That is truly a scary thought
 
The doughnut thing allows municipalities to merge if they both pass a referendum. The Princeton's did this a few years back. Murphy also spoke boldly about consolidation of school boards if a muni had more than one ie: Fair haven k-8 & Rfh would he consolidated w Rumson to make a unified k-12. This never got legs unfort. Trump EO'd a school choice act which may bring forward some semblance of that, time will tell.

Back to lakewood, no neighboring town will merge w lakewood. Given the geography of neighboring towns, it won't happen. If it was next to Allenhurst or loch arbor or some 1 sq mile muni maybe. If towns nearby were smart they would he passing anti dormitory bills that would quash expansion into their muni before it even started. It's too late for Jackson, brick, TR and Howell. But if I'm an elected official in Freehold, wall, Manalapan, etc I'd have passed something years ago. There's simply no stopping the expansion of that community. And sadly, they operate with the faith that Jewish law trumps our domestic law.
It seems there are a lot of religions that feel their religious laws trump our domestic laws.
 
Not really that is how all elections work.
Tom stop being obtuse, you’re smarter than that
You and I both know that they’ve completely ruined Lakewood, no matter how bad you try to spin it

Now they’re looking to do the same thing to these neighboring towns, once thriving communities that will absolutely go to shit if these Neanderthals get their hands on the local laws

I’m not being anti-semantic, I’m not being an asshole, nor am I being untruthful… But these villains have literally ruined everything they have touched, and it is a damn shame that they’re getting away with it all the name of twisting religion to suit their own selfish agenda at the expense of every other law abiding citizen
 
Tom stop being obtuse, you’re smarter than that
You and I both know that they’ve completely ruined Lakewood, no matter how bad you try to spin it

Now they’re looking to do the same thing to these neighboring towns, once thriving communities that will absolutely go to shit if these Neanderthals get their hands on the local laws

I’m not being anti-semantic, I’m not being an asshole, nor am I being untruthful… But these villains have literally ruined everything they have touched, and it is a damn shame that they’re getting away with it all the name of twisting religion to suit their own selfish agenda at the expense of every other law abiding citizen
I said that is how all elections work not that I like how Lakewood is governed.

We live with candidates we do not support and having policies we don't like all the time.

It happens on a national level. It happens on a state level. Why would it not happen on a municipal level?
 
I said that is how all elections work not that I like how Lakewood is governed.

We live with candidates we do not support and having policies we don't like all the time.

It happens on a national level. It happens on a state level. Why would it not happen on a municipal level?
I’m not arguing with that, I’m saying if Lakewood were to take over these other municipalities, that would be a scary thought
 
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I’m not arguing with that, I’m saying if Lakewood were to take over these other municipalities, that would be a scary thought
To many people yes but not to the people who would vote for it. As I said same as any other election.
 
To many people yes but not to the people who would vote for it. As I said same as any other election.
To any sensible person concerned w preserving their community, living according to social norms and following laws, it would be absolute nightmare
 
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