OT: Real Estate Question - Toms River/Brick and area

[kupuna133]

What cop is making 200K I'll wait

You do know that this is public information correct?

NJ Public Employee Salaries | DataUniverse - APP.com, part of the USA TODAY NETWORK

Search the salaries of NJ public employees at the local, county, state and school levels, brought to you by DataUniverse and the Asbury Park Press.

content-static.app.com

NJ Public Employee Salaries | DataUniverse - APP.com, part of the USA TODAY NETWORK

Search the salaries of NJ public employees at the local, county, state and school levels, brought to you by DataUniverse and the Asbury Park Press.

content-static.app.com

That is base pay without overtime, pension etc... It is not uncommon for police to increase income by $100k on minimal outside job coverage.

 

[RUTGERS95]

And people have been leaving NJ for the past several decades due to taxes (which is why we keep bleeding congressional seats). So yes, it's not new but the morons in Trenton now are actually accelerating the problem. They are not even pretending to give a crap about solving it.

states need to be allowed to go bankrupt so the rates on the debt more accurately reflect the risks. Do that and it's a new ballgame in this regard

 

[T2Kplus20]

states need to be allowed to go bankrupt so the rates on the debt more accurately reflect the risks. Do that and it's a new ballgame in this regard

Completely agree. There needs to be direct consequences for poor fiscal management of states.

 

[Knight Shift]

Sounds delightful in Delaware. Once they force upgrades to a public sewer system, the taxes and expenses will rise.

We built a house in far western NY many years ago with a septic system. The engineer who designed our system also happened to be the town official who approved the design. After we sold, there was an issue with the septic system and the buyer called for some information and was incredulous that the approval was by the same person who designed the system. It really stinks!

Human waste found in Southern Delaware waterways may correlate with home septic systems

Homeowners are not required to inspect their septic systems until they sell their home, meaning deteriorating systems could go unnoticed.

whyy.org

Sewer systems are expensive.

Plumsted said it needed $32M sewer plant to stay alive; now bills are killing residents

Plumsted's $32 million wastewater treatment plant is an engineering marvel. But it's also more than doubling sewer bills for some customers.

www.app.com

 

[RU205]

Completely agree. There needs to be direct consequences for poor fiscal management of states.

If you have time you should read about NJ government decisions in the early to mid 90s. That’s where the NJ budget problems started to spiral. Income taxes cuts lead to significant property tax rates. NJ governor raided the pension fund. Whitman borrowed money from wall street. It was a mess and the state has not dug out of it.

 

[NotInRHouse]

West Belmar was the final frontier of affordability. No more. The issue over there is when the wind changes direction and SMRSA odors permeate.

Disagree on 18. Not being parochial about it either. Route 34 from the Parkway down to the Route 35 Bridge over the Mansaquan RIver is bad enough as it is. Can't imagine dumping more traffic on the interchange--it gets particularly clogged from the interchange to the river because it chokes down to 2 lanes and gets forced through down town Point Pleasant Beach. No easy solution.

But IIRC, where 18 was supposed to go through will now be the site of a lot of affordable housing in the area bounded by 34/Lakewood/35 and Valley Park Professional Center. Careful what you wish for, I guess.

If I'm going south on 18 towards PP, and now I can't get down to the bridge on 18....aren't I getting onto local roads?

 

[NotInRHouse]

What kids starting out can afford southern Monmouth County. You move where you can afford. Not everyone needs to have a $750k starter home. After college I had roomates and lived a greater distance from my job because I could not afford to live in NYC/. One year of commuting into the city. I decided my time was more important and moved into the city. There are sacrifices. I am all for affordable housing. But it does not need to come at a ridiculous mandate.

I have many family members that are police. 2 in their mid to late 20's with less than 5 years on. They are both taking home greater than 100k.

No doubt...my point is nowhere even remotely proximate. Also, even say 150. Typically it's recommended you spend 3x income on a home. That is 450k, which is maybe a small 2 bedroom condo if you are lucky.

I am talking if people want to start a family (which young folks are told they need to take more seriously). If you want to move to Hoboken or JC and have a roommate, it's doable, and fun. I am also responding to the idea that people cannot move back where they came from. To me, that seems bad. Also seems bad to be a cop or teacher in a community but then be essentially shut out of it.

 

[T2Kplus20]

If you have time you should read about NJ government decisions in the early to mid 90s. That’s where the NJ budget problems started to spiral. Income taxes cuts lead to significant property tax rates. NJ governor raided the pension fund. Whitman borrowed money from wall street. It was a mess and the state has not dug out of it.

Whitman definitely f'ed up quite a bit, but the lies and mismanagement started well before her. Remember when the state passed sales and income taxes with the promise of "solving" the property tax problem. Yeah, LOL! The pigs in Trenton just began to feed from the trough as property taxes spiraled.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Aren't Wall cops making six figures?

Yes, but I think you'd need to be approaching 200k to make it affordable which would probably only apply to more senior folks.

 

[S_Janowski]

You do know that this is public information correct?

NJ Public Employee Salaries | DataUniverse - APP.com, part of the USA TODAY NETWORK

Search the salaries of NJ public employees at the local, county, state and school levels, brought to you by DataUniverse and the Asbury Park Press.

content-static.app.com

NJ Public Employee Salaries | DataUniverse - APP.com, part of the USA TODAY NETWORK

Search the salaries of NJ public employees at the local, county, state and school levels, brought to you by DataUniverse and the Asbury Park Press.

content-static.app.com

That is base pay without overtime, pension etc... It is not uncommon for police to increase income by $100k on minimal outside job coverage.

Some cops may be pulling in $200K total in North Jersey or select towns.. but I doubt that’s the norm, or average across the state.

The average is probably closer to $150K.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I can see this happening in resort communities. Like ski places.

But if there is no room to build (for whatever reason - land, inventory, etc.), then I can see something happening down the road.

My Parents commute was an hour each way for ~40yrs. It got longer as they did better and moved to places they wanted to be. Mine is similar for almost 30.

If you want to live where you work or be close to it, decisions have to be made.

First off, there is A LOT of land to build in that area. Secondly, people will make decisions, no doubt, but it will make a lot of decisions that overlap with the complainers on affordable housing. More young people will want to work remotely. They will not return to their hometowns. They will visit their parents less and less.

I really struggle with the idea that building condos, making them an affordable price, and putting a deed restriction like "public employee" or "grew up in town" will be ruinous. But not my issue. I could afford to move back where I'm from...but wouldn't barring an exigent circumstance. And, a kid where I live has teachers and public servants that have options on where to live. I was heartened though that the mayor realized it's a problem. Eventually more will.

 

[NotInRHouse]

What cop is making 200K I'll wait

At $279k, High Paid Toms River Chief Cries Defunding, Mayor Rodrick Says Saving Lives Matters, Not Promotions

TOMS RIVER, NJ - With a salary of $279,651 a year, Toms River Police Chief Mitch Little is one of the highest-paid public employees in the state of New Jersey

www.shorenewsnetwork.com

 

[NotInRHouse]

And people have been leaving NJ for the past several decades due to taxes (which is why we keep bleeding congressional seats). So yes, it's not new but the morons in Trenton now are actually accelerating the problem. They are not even pretending to give a crap about solving it.

LOL. How many seats were lost in 2020?

So completely clueless.

NJ's populations keeps increasing, as well.

 

[RUTGERS95]

If you have time you should read about NJ government decisions in the early to mid 90s. That’s where the NJ budget problems started to spiral. Income taxes cuts lead to significant property tax rates. NJ governor raided the pension fund. Whitman borrowed money from wall street. It was a mess and the state has not dug out of it.

once again, gov'ts inability to stop spending creates issues

 

[NotInRHouse]

Some cops may be pulling in $200K total in North Jersey or select towns.. but I doubt that’s the norm, or average across the state.

The average is probably closer to $150K.

Not that South Jersey is cheap, but relative to areas further north, it is definitely much easier to afford.

When people say they can't afford to live in NJ, I don't think they are talking about Cumberland or Salem County, never mind even a nicer place like Cherry Hill or Voorhees.

If people felt very strongly they must stay in NJ, they could definitely move to South Jersey but my guess is, from a cultural perspective, the thought is that Delaware is the same thing and cheaper still, fair or not.

 

[e5fdny]

Sounds delightful in Delaware. Once they force upgrades to a public sewer system, the taxes and expenses will rise.

We built a house in far western NY many years ago with a septic system. The engineer who designed our system also happened to be the town official who approved the design. After we sold, there was an issue with the septic system and the buyer called for some information and was incredulous that the approval was by the same person who designed the system. It really stinks!

Human waste found in Southern Delaware waterways may correlate with home septic systems

Homeowners are not required to inspect their septic systems until they sell their home, meaning deteriorating systems could go unnoticed.

whyy.org

I see what you did there. 👍

 

[Knight Shift]

I see what you did there. 👍

On the flip side, as I noted above, the odors (and sometimes overflow) from SMRSA stink too.

 

[e5fdny]

At $279k, High Paid Toms River Chief Cries Defunding, Mayor Rodrick Says Saving Lives Matters, Not Promotions

TOMS RIVER, NJ - With a salary of $279,651 a year, Toms River Police Chief Mitch Little is one of the highest-paid public employees in the state of New Jersey

www.shorenewsnetwork.com

Apples vs. oranges.

He’s in charge of a dept of over 100 regular cops and not sure how many supervisor above them.

The article also mentions the boss to regular cop ratio is 1 to 3. That is well within the norm of ICS (Incident Command System). Normal is 3 to 7 with 5 being ideal.

As for the salary:

1. It’s a big dept
2. It’s a big area the cover
3. Someone or some people approved this. It’s not like he did it on his own.

Be mad at #3 if you don’t like the salary, not so much for #1 and #2.

 

[e5fdny]

On the flip side, as I noted above, the odors (and sometimes overflow) from SMRSA stink too.

I never noticed it for years, until one day I did. 🤷‍♂️

 

[kupuna133]

No doubt...my point is nowhere even remotely proximate. Also, even say 150. Typically it's recommended you spend 3x income on a home. That is 450k, which is maybe a small 2 bedroom condo if you are lucky.

I am talking if people want to start a family (which young folks are told they need to take more seriously). If you want to move to Hoboken or JC and have a roommate, it's doable, and fun. I am also responding to the idea that people cannot move back where they came from. To me, that seems bad. Also seems bad to be a cop or teacher in a community but then be essentially shut out of it.

A single person making $150k should only be paying $450 on a home. And if that buys you a 2 BR condo what else do you need? Now if you add an additional income, bringing the income to $200+ you are now talking $600k and you can afford many starter homes within Wall and the surrounding area (10 miles). Trust me I know I live in this area. My niece who is a cop in Mercer county purchased a home (by herself in the last 2 years) in this area had no issues finding more than enough options within her price range of $400-500k. Its not perfect but she knows its an entry point home.

 

[e5fdny]

First off, there is A LOT of land to build in that area. Secondly, people will make decisions, no doubt, but it will make a lot of decisions that overlap with the complainers on affordable housing. More young people will want to work remotely. They will not return to their hometowns. They will visit their parents less and less.

I really struggle with the idea that building condos, making them an affordable price, and putting a deed restriction like "public employee" or "grew up in town" will be ruinous. But not my issue. I could afford to move back where I'm from...but wouldn't barring an exigent circumstance. And, a kid where I live has teachers and public servants that have options on where to live. I was heartened though that the mayor realized it's a problem. Eventually more will.

If you’re talking about Wall and not ski country, sure there is but maybe the folks in Wall don’t want to pay for another elementary, middle or even another high school. Along with paying for the teachers and support staff that come with it.

That’s not even considering the additional PD or Public Works folks that will probably be needed too.

 

[kupuna133]

Some cops may be pulling in $200K total in North Jersey or select towns.. but I doubt that’s the norm, or average across the state.

The average is probably closer to $150K.

Punch in your town. It's right there for you. Thats base salary. Not including overtime, outside jobs, pension contributions, health insurance etc...

I have been down this rabbit hole multiple times.

 

[Knight Shift]

I never noticed it for years, until one day I did. 🤷‍♂️

I think it hits West Belmar the worst. IIRC, they had an overflow situation several years ago. .

 

[kupuna133]

First off, there is A LOT of land to build in that area. Secondly, people will make decisions, no doubt, but it will make a lot of decisions that overlap with the complainers on affordable housing. More young people will want to work remotely. They will not return to their hometowns. They will visit their parents less and less.

I really struggle with the idea that building condos, making them an affordable price, and putting a deed restriction like "public employee" or "grew up in town" will be ruinous. But not my issue. I could afford to move back where I'm from...but wouldn't barring an exigent circumstance. And, a kid where I live has teachers and public servants that have options on where to live. I was heartened though that the mayor realized it's a problem. Eventually more will.

Why does all available land need to be built upon? Why do you need high density housing? If you want to see bad public planning drive along Rt1 between Princeton and New Brunswick. That was farmland up until the 90's when COAH took effect. You know what happened? It went to police and fire and moderate income first go around. Then it was open market.

It is fine if Jimmmy and John don't return to their home town at 23. The last thing I wanted to do was live in Central Jersey after college. I also couldn't afford to "buy" a house anywhere at 23. But you know what? After 15 years of living in the city I wanted to move to the suburbs. Guess what I could afford it at 40.

I took a public planning class at RU in mid 90's and the professor said then, the modern slum is the suburban sprawl of condos. He was not wrong.

 

[tom1944]

If you have time you should read about NJ government decisions in the early to mid 90s. That’s where the NJ budget problems started to spiral. Income taxes cuts lead to significant property tax rates. NJ governor raided the pension fund. Whitman borrowed money from wall street. It was a mess and the state has not dug out of it.

What Whitman did was to counter the claim that her income tax cut would lead to property tax increases she borrowed money and used those funds to take on the following local budget items- all of the social security employer payments for teachers, the cost of health care for retired teachers and the employer contribution for teacher's retirement. She used the bond money to make the contribution of all those items but the obligation to the State of covering those costs created a budget issue in every State budget since.

 

[S_Janowski]

Punch in your town. It's right there for you. Thats base salary. Not including overtime, outside jobs, pension contributions, health insurance etc...

I have been down this rabbit hole multiple times.

I have punched them in and most are making around $100K.

The average cop isn’t pulling in $100K in OT.

Show your work if you think this is accurate. Otherwise it’s just a major assumption.

 

[yesrutgers01]

What cop is making 200K I'll wait

I'm not sure about NJ but I have a buddy that retired as a cop in the Town of Poughkeepsie NY about 12 years ago and in his last year- made around $170K with overtime and maybe another $20-30 with side jobs he got - some of them directly through the force that allowed him to be in full uniform.

 

[kupuna133]

I have punched them in and most are making around $100K.

The average cop isn’t pulling in $100K in OT.

Show your work if you think this is accurate. Otherwise it’s just a major assumption.

How is it an assumption. The data is right there for you. And I agree the average is more like $150 pretty much what I said. With overtime and outside jobs that number goes way up. So middle of the pack 10 year in officer should/could be taking home well more than 200k.

I am sure I can put in a podunk town in Cumberland County. But the discussion was about Wall Township specifically and Monmouth County as an extension.

Outside jobs and overtime it is not very hard to get to that 100k number. I have 5 police officers in my immediate family. The amount they make in outside jobs. Especially when they are starting out more than doubles their salary. i shared Wall and Edison pay in the links above and in previous threads where this has come up.

I have 5 family members that are police in various departments in 3 counties. All started at a competitive rates and within 5 years their base pay was in the 100k range. Within 10-15 it is 125-30. that is without overtime and outside jobs.

Don't go down the Edison rabbit hole, where more than 50% of their department makes over $125k base.

“Side jobs are assigned at the discretion of "several different individuals within the department," Carey said. Officers can make over $100,000 a year from side jobs alone, in addition to their base pay and overtime. “
From below article.

Edison Cop From Bedminster Paid For Work He Didn't Do: Prosecutor

Brian Rossmeyer, 41, of Bedminister served as a Sergeant in Edison and has been charged with official misconduct and theft.

patch.com

 

[RU205]

How is it an assumption. The data is right there for you. And I agree the average is more like $150 pretty much what I said. With overtime and outside jobs that number goes way up. So middle of the pack 10 year in officer should/could be taking home well more than 200k.

I am sure I can put in a podunk town in Cumberland County. But the discussion was about Wall Township specifically and Monmouth County as an extension.

Outside jobs and overtime it is not very hard to get to that 100k number. I have 5 police officers in my immediate family. The amount they make in outside jobs. Especially when they are starting out more than doubles their salary. i shared Wall and Edison pay in the links above and in previous threads where this has come up.

I have 5 family members that are police in various departments in 3 counties. All started at a competitive rates and within 5 years their base pay was in the 100k range. Within 10-15 it is 125-30. that is without overtime and outside jobs.

Don't go down the Edison rabbit hole, where more than 50% of their department makes over $125k base.

Edison Cop From Bedminster Paid For Work He Didn't Do: Prosecutor

Brian Rossmeyer, 41, of Bedminister served as a Sergeant in Edison and has been charged with official misconduct and theft.

patch.com

Edison police have been a problem for over 50 years.

 

[S_Janowski]

How is it an assumption. The data is right there for you. And I agree the average is more like $150 pretty much what I said. With overtime and outside jobs that number goes way up. So middle of the pack 10 year in officer should/could be taking home well more than 200k.

I am sure I can put in a podunk town in Cumberland County. But the discussion was about Wall Township specifically and Monmouth County as an extension.

Outside jobs and overtime it is not very hard to get to that 100k number. I have 5 police officers in my immediate family. The amount they make in outside jobs. Especially when they are starting out more than doubles their salary. i shared Wall and Edison pay in the links above and in previous threads where this has come up.

I have 5 family members that are police in various departments in 3 counties. All started at a competitive rates and within 5 years their base pay was in the 100k range. Within 10-15 it is 125-30. that is without overtime and outside jobs.

Don't go down the Edison rabbit hole, where more than 50% of their department makes over $125k base.

“Side jobs are assigned at the discretion of "several different individuals within the department," Carey said. Officers can make over $100,000 a year from side jobs alone, in addition to their base pay and overtime. “
From below article.

Edison Cop From Bedminster Paid For Work He Didn't Do: Prosecutor

Brian Rossmeyer, 41, of Bedminister served as a Sergeant in Edison and has been charged with official misconduct and theft.

patch.com

I may have misunderstood the statement, but I thought it was being said that a cop in NJ is taking in $200K.

While I’m sure there are cops who are raking in $200K + (police chiefs, long tenured cops who pound OT, cops in select few towns such as Edison)…I don’t think the average cop in NJ is taking in anywhere close to $200K.

While it’s normal for cops to pull OT and side jobs, not all cops want to give most of their lives away all year for maximum pay. If a cop has a base of $90K-$120K, it would take an awful lot to get to $200K.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I may have misunderstood the statement, but I thought it was being said that a cop in NJ is taking in $200K.

While I’m sure there are cops who are raking in $200K + (police chiefs, long tenured cops who pound OT, cops in select few towns such as Edison)…I don’t think the average cop in NJ is taking in anywhere close to $200K.

While it’s normal for cops to pull OT and side jobs, not all cops want to give most of their lives away all year for maximum pay. If a cop has a base of $90K-$120K, it would take an awful lot to get to $200K.

Most do those crazy shifts and hours over their last few years to max out pensions.

 

[kupuna133]

I may have misunderstood the statement, but I thought it was being said that a cop in NJ is taking in $200K.

While I’m sure there are cops who are raking in $200K + (police chiefs, long tenured cops who pound OT, cops in select few towns such as Edison)…I don’t think the average cop in NJ is taking in anywhere close to $200K.

While it’s normal for cops to pull OT and side jobs, not all cops want to give most of their lives away all year for maximum pay. If a cop has a base of $90K-$120K, it would take an awful lot to get to $200K.

It’s really not that difficult to get to those numbers. With a base of 90-120 it’s only an extra couple hours a day. Or one extra shift/outside job a week. With most departments using a pitman schedule it makes it much easier and still have free time.

 

[tom1944]

Most do those crazy shifts and hours over their last few years to max out pensions.

In NJ overtime is not considered in the pension

It is in NY and the Port Authority but not NJ

 

[yesrutgers01]

In NJ overtime is not considered in the pension

It is in NY and the Port Authority but not NJ

Ahhh didn’t know that. Most of my buddies I grew up with that became cops are in NY.
They all did crazy hours. Best thing for them, most started in their early 20’s so they were still just in their 40’s and 60+ hours a week wasn’t a big deal.

 

[S_Janowski]

Most do those crazy shifts and hours over their last few years to max out pensions.

I may be mistaken, but wouldn’t a Pension exclude OT and extra jobs, and calculated off base salary?

I would imagine this depends upon the state and pension system.

 

[BossNJ]

The ironic part about this is that many who game the system in this way are the same ones who are against union benefits for other people.

Great for me but not for thee.

“Socialism!!!”

 

[e5fdny]

Most do those crazy shifts and hours over their last few years to max out pensions.

In NJ overtime is not considered in the pension

It is in NY and the Port Authority but not NJ

Ahhh didn’t know that. Most of my buddies I grew up with that became cops are in NY.
They all did crazy hours. Best thing for them, most started in their early 20’s so they were still just in their 40’s and 60+ hours a week wasn’t a big deal.

I may be mistaken, but wouldn’t a Pension exclude OT and extra jobs, and calculated off base salary?

I would imagine this depends upon the state and pension system.

As @tom1944 mentioned, yes for NY but not for NJ.

But depending on the jurisdiction or pension tier, there is a cap.

 

[tom1944]

TYPES OF RETIREMENT The following types of retirement benefits are calculated using your Years of Service and Final Compensation. • Years of Service means the amount of membership service you have credited to your account. • Final Compensation — For a PFRS Tier 1 member enrolled on or before May 21, 2010, Final Compensation means the salary upon which contributions were based in the last 12 months of creditable service preceding retirement. For a PFRS Tier 2 member enrolled after May 21, 2010, and on or before June 28, 2011, or a PFRS Tier 3 member enrolled after June 28, 2011, Final Compensation means the average salary upon which pension contributions were based for the last three years of service or any three fiscal years of membership preceding retirement that provides the largest possible benefit. Final Compensation does not include extra pay for overtime or large increases in compensation paid primarily in anticipation of retirement.

 

[Knight Shift]

TYPES OF RETIREMENT The following types of retirement benefits are calculated using your Years of Service and Final Compensation. • Years of Service means the amount of membership service you have credited to your account. • Final Compensation — For a PFRS Tier 1 member enrolled on or before May 21, 2010, Final Compensation means the salary upon which contributions were based in the last 12 months of creditable service preceding retirement. For a PFRS Tier 2 member enrolled after May 21, 2010, and on or before June 28, 2011, or a PFRS Tier 3 member enrolled after June 28, 2011, Final Compensation means the average salary upon which pension contributions were based for the last three years of service or any three fiscal years of membership preceding retirement that provides the largest possible benefit. Final Compensation does not include extra pay for overtime or large increases in compensation paid primarily in anticipation of retirement.

Yes, for those that missed it that the Police Fire Retirement System--there are quite a few police officers and firefighters enrolled pre May 21, 2010 who are not subject to the overtime limit.

 

[rutgersdave]

At $279k, High Paid Toms River Chief Cries Defunding, Mayor Rodrick Says Saving Lives Matters, Not Promotions

TOMS RIVER, NJ - With a salary of $279,651 a year, Toms River Police Chief Mitch Little is one of the highest-paid public employees in the state of New Jersey

www.shorenewsnetwork.com

Everybody crying about budget deficit while this police force average $300,000. Everybody is afraid to say anything and the union controls the mayor. Couple more years they will average $400,000,