In my opinion the treaty and its results were the biggest cause of WWII.
OT: WWII September 1, 1939, 85 Years Ago Today - The Invasion of Poland
- Thread starter MadRU
- Start date
We'd had wartime conditions for almost 4 years, to continue would have caused great stress at home. A good chance the American people wouldn't have supported it. That was one of the factors that went into the decision to drop atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima: that there was waning enthusiasm and support for a long, bloody, drawn-out invasion of Japan by conventional means.
NATO allies got their economies wrecked with sanctions that backfired (and Germany's pipeline blown-up by US just before winter). Certain elements in US/EU want Ukraine for themselves (US staged a coup in Ukraine 10 yrs ago for the kick-off).
The US Revolution and Constitution were populist. Now the 1A is being gutted and they want the 2A, electoral college and SCOTUS gutted (gangs outside justice homes aren't "populist") . They've been running lawfare for 6 years while denying real scandals and persecuting anyone not complying (currently Musk is main target). Mike Benz (formerly State Dept) explained how US intel designed for foreign surveillance was turned on citizens using EU, Australia and others. Anything true becomes 'misinformation"
The border was intentionally destroyed .
The US might lose a war with China, congressional commission says
Insufficient industry, readiness, innovation, and funding hamper military’s ability to prevail in conflict, key experts find.
www.defenseone.com
America Is a Heartbeat Away From a War It Could Lose
Global war is neither a theoretical contingency nor the fever dream of hawks and militarists.
foreignpolicy.com
Yeah.. I was thinking of adding the nuke factor into what I had said.. we could live in a world now where teh USA dropped atomic bombs on Russian manufacturing centers or even teh front lines tank battalions in Germany and Poland. Then did the same like MacArthur wanted vs China during the Korean War... because if we dropped more on Russia.. why not a few more to finish off the scourge of Communism?
Seems to be pretty clear that the military-industrial complex.. and I'll add that the "complex" includes DC politicians and Wall Street firms and the international investor class... want war.. want chaos that causes wars... and crimes of all kinds.. like terrorism and CoVid.. because they can then just print money and take their cuts (both legally and illegally.. aka un-auditable spending)... get beyond rich now off the debt of future taxpayers.NATO allies got their economies wrecked with sanctions that backfired (and Germany's pipeline blown-up by US just before winter). Certain elements in US/EU want Ukraine for themselves (US staged a coup in Ukraine 10 yrs ago for the kick-off).
The US Revolution and Constitution were populist. Now the 1A is being gutted and they want the 2A, electoral college and SCOTUS gutted (gangs outside justice homes aren't "populist") . They've been running lawfare for 6 years while denying real scandals and persecuting anyone not complying (currently Musk is main target). Mike Benz (formerly State Dept) explained how US intel designed for foreign surveillance was turned on citizens using EU, Australia and others. Anything true becomes 'misinformation"
The border was intentionally destroyed .
The US might lose a war with China, congressional commission says
Insufficient industry, readiness, innovation, and funding hamper military’s ability to prevail in conflict, key experts find.
America Is a Heartbeat Away From a War It Could Lose
Global war is neither a theoretical contingency nor the fever dream of hawks and militarists.
What drove the decision to drop the nukes was the possibility of almost as many KIA as the US had suffered thus far in the war and hundred of thousands of wounded. Even with rationing the US home front was not suffering significantly up to that point
I've been arguing about things like this since the Sixties and my days at Rutgers. One thing I've learned is that when someone starts spouting nonsense like you just did...it's time to talk about Rutgers football.
To quote the comedian Ron White...."You can't fix stupid."
Yeah.. my father and some of his brothers and the fathers of many posters here would have most likely paid the ultimate price in any invasion of Japan. So, the use of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki has always been a tough one for me.
Yeah... I see you follow your own advice about your nonsense regarding some distinction between declaring war and attacking Germany.
So.. the tactic now is to declare victory in an argument without bothering to make an argument? That's typical.
I was trying to be nice. I really wanted to say that I learned long ago not to waste my time with idiotic conspiracy nonsense from dumbasses.
As a person of Polish decent, its quite clear cut really - Russia has never wanted an independent Poland (I don't want to get into a CE board debate, but there are parallels to Ukraine today). From 1795, to the Polish-Soviet War in 1920, to the Katyn Massacre of 1940, to the failure of the 1944 Warsaw Uprising, the selling out of the Yalta Conference, and finally the denial of allowing Polish Veterans to march in the London Victory Parade of 1946.
Western Betrayal
London Victory Parade
oh.. it was not because you had no response? Okay.. let hear it.
oh.. I see.. you are ignoring the declaring war meant nothing crap you said and instead focussing on whether there is or is not a military-industiral complex.. corruption in government... people who made a fortune over CoVid... you are sweeping that all up in the "conspiracy nut" charge.
yeah.. guilty as charged. I think there are many conspiracies in government corruption circles.
Never a good idea to overly punish your former adversary (dating back to at least the 1st and 2nd Punic Wars). The US/UK did very well with Germany and Japan after WW2. The US could have done a lot better after the Cold War with Russia. That was a historic wasted opportunity.
Again.. how far should the Allies have gone to thwart Soviet aggression and territorial control demands? The Soviet Army was in Germany, never mind Poland. From the Soviet point of view, why wouldn't they want a cushion of territory so that Moscow couldn't be threatened so quickly from the west.
Was it fair to Poland.. no. But go talk to Russia and whatever left of the USSR about that. As for teh invitation to the Victory parade.. wow.. so many different takes on this out there. What seems most logical is that the USSR pressuring both the UK Government AND the Poles in Britain who had family in Soviet-controlled Poland... seems like it was a sticky issue and maybe it worked out for the best.
Poland is in good shape now and did not have to suffer another war across its lands. Feelings hurt? Small price to pay.
No, it only had to suffer another 50 years behind the Iron Curtain. You just don't get it apparently.
I have a NYC newspaper from June of 1940 with the headline:
HITLER AND MUSSOLINI MEET TO DISCUSS FRANCE.
HITLER AND MUSSOLINI MEET TO DISCUSS FRANCE.
They had estimated around 600K casualties to take Japan by conventional means. Once they occupied Japan and saw how heavily defended it was along with the people's fanatical devotion to the emperor, they upped those casualty estimate to between 2 and 3 million.
Tell that to the 2 generations which were born and raised behind the Iron Curtain for 45 years.
My father was training for Operation Downfall, the invasion of mainland Japan. He would have been in the initial wave. Always said Truman saved his life.
At the beginning of August my dad was a month away from being deployed to the Pacific Theater as a navigator in a B-29.
When my dad returned to New London Connecticut, from Southern France and Northern Africa.
They all thought they were going to be shipped to the Pacific
They all thought they were going to be shipped to the Pacific
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My dad was a navigator on a B29 based out of Tinian. Flew many bombing missions over Japan. Still have most of his gear on shelves and in his locker trunk.
No neither A-bomb run. Have a couple dollar bills when he wrote the date and bomb site from each run.
You have to listen to Mike Benz who worked cyber for State Dept.
The CIA is joined at the hips with DOD and State.
Together with the military they initially worked to secure US business interests/dominance.
As time went on the pols wanted in and everyone was going for dollars.
US agencies and UK, EU, Australia et al all came to get in bed with each other,
They came to see populism as a threat to their arrangements.
"Democracy" got redefined and its not about the people's government but the institutions and bureaucracies that make the gov up.
US cant officially spy on its people but foreign agencies can
US relies on them to do their dirty work.
They use things like phone calls to Russia to rubber stamp investigations.
The Brazilians going after Musk and the French going after Turov and Telegram are part of international web that's risen globally. NATO is the hub were global political movements are hatched monitored
Check Mike Benz while he's still alive/free - the guy knows where all the bodies are buried (and he knows who controls Soros who is an asset and not a free agent).
The fact that this load of hyper-partisan political crap is allowed to remain in this thread speaks volumes.NATO allies got their economies wrecked with sanctions that backfired (and Germany's pipeline blown-up by US just before winter). Certain elements in US/EU want Ukraine for themselves (US staged a coup in Ukraine 10 yrs ago for the kick-off).
The US Revolution and Constitution were populist. Now the 1A is being gutted and they want the 2A, electoral college and SCOTUS gutted (gangs outside justice homes aren't "populist") . They've been running lawfare for 6 years while denying real scandals and persecuting anyone not complying (currently Musk is main target). Mike Benz (formerly State Dept) explained how US intel designed for foreign surveillance was turned on citizens using EU, Australia and others. Anything true becomes 'misinformation"
The border was intentionally destroyed .
The US might lose a war with China, congressional commission says
Insufficient industry, readiness, innovation, and funding hamper military’s ability to prevail in conflict, key experts find.
America Is a Heartbeat Away From a War It Could Lose
Global war is neither a theoretical contingency nor the fever dream of hawks and militarists.
Sigh. Seek mental health counseling. conspiracy piled on conspiracy. What a strange world view.
Yeah well these days not putting tampons in the boy's rooms is hyper-partisan.
Zuckerberg himself confirmed the "conspiracies."
The Blob (Ben Rhodes term) wants to arrest/destroy Musk now - "No free speech for you!"
Toxic hate and revenge impulses are what created 1930s Germany and WWII. That people dont really learn from history is the main lesson of history.
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Our military is more fragile than people think. Weak links (global weapon sourcing, realiance on satelite for targeting and comms) can be exploited that would blunt its effectiveness. Also, keep in mind our navy still seems to be preparing for the last war, not the next one by continuing to build giant vulnerable aircraft carriers for the next 12 years. IMO, the bureaucracy of the military is simply not evolving quickly enough to respond to new threats.
Looking for it on Amazon. Need a good beach book. Thanks
No. You don't get it. What would have happened had a war vs the USSR been fought to free Poland?
You think on that. You may be willing to sacrifice an untold number of lives to save Poland 50 years of suffering as a Soviet satellite state but, apparently, the Allies were not and 50 years later Poland is free without that war. How many Americans and Poles and others would have died and their children and grandchildren and great-grand-children never to be born had that war been fought then?
I just responded to HP~.. at what price was Poland's freedom for 50 years worth? They always say blood and treasure.. forget the cost in treasure.. focus on the blood. Poland survived and today they care more about their heritage and ethnicity than every other western European nation, it seems, where caring about such things gets you called an evil "nationalist". Should a war have been fought then so many Poles alive today never would have been born.. nor would many Americans and Brits and Francs and Russians (not that anyone cares about them).
Read Churchill's war by David Irving. In fact, read all of his books if you're interested in WWII
Oh.. the Mike Benz Tucker interview is very enlightening. You should track down Tucker's Alex Jones interview. I know, I know.. boogeyman conspiracy nut Alex Jones.. I bought that description of him too... until I saw that interview. So did Tucker.. until he saw something that caused him to rethink it all and he invited Jones on. I think a lot of people would be surprised while watching that Tucker interview... same for his Benz interview. The Sachs interview.. cannot recommend that.. I cannot decide if Sachs is honestly as peace-loving as he sounds and brainwashed or if he is just on the take from the internationalists and China.
The CIA (OSI) modeled after the Brit's intelligence outfits and those were all about social class.. pulling from the "nobility". Here they went to elite schools... the Ivies... the wealthy families sent their kids there and that's what the CIA was controlled by.. the elites. The difference is here, you can become an elite.. the Obama's have.. the Clintons have.. etc.
Sure.. during the war years they may actually have been doing their part to make sure the good guys won. But afterward? They serve the interests of the elites.
IMHO.. we need a "reset" all right.. but not the way the left thinks is a good idea. We need to reset the DC Swamp's vice-grip control of everything. Rebuild these organizations from scratch with clear and PUBLIC goals in mind. Retire all those laws that allow these organizations to infringe on our constitutional rights.. Patriot Act stuff would be a good start. Shrink the federal government, reduce the tax burden and red tape. Defend organizations like the EPA and FDA and CDC from regulatory capture by industry. Shut down the revolving door between federal government positions and industry.
We simply cannot go on as we have been.
You are probably one of the people I argued with about WMD in Iraq. While I still think the information I saw at that time supported such arguments.. and logic and rationale thinking about things as well (like, why would Saddam SECRETLY have destroyed all his WMD instead of doing it for all the world to see)...
BUT... so much has changed since them.. so much "known" information has been proven to be purposeful lies.. we have no reason to stay in those places for so long.. Obama's surge in Afghanistan made no sense.. his lack of withdrawal made no sense... hell, Bush should have got us out.. 3 years was more than enough.. Trump should have gotten us out before his term was over.. Trump got played by Swampers in his administration (GOPers too!) and among his advisers again and again.. hoping his upgrade of advisers changes that this time.
Scott Adams (Dilbert creator guy and big Mike Benz fan) has a thought that all governments are basically criminal organizations like the mob. And thus all citizens are part of that criminal organization.. so.. has America's criminal activities around the globe helps its crime organization.. its people? yeah.. you'd have to say it is pretty good at what it does.
And, yeah, I suppose we could put a stop to all that criminal activity.. interfering in foreign elections and so on.... however.. we are not teh ONLY criminal nation out there. Every nation seeks its best interests like a criminal organization... so if we stop doing that evil *stuff*.. who will take our place and how will that affect Americans?
