OT: WWII September 1, 1939, 85 Years Ago Today - The Invasion of Poland
- Thread starter MadRU
- Start date
When you read "Ukraine firing NATO missiles into Russia" it should really read US firing missiles into Russia. Ukraine is not able to access targeting and security protocols to fire missiles into Russia.
When "NATO" fired missiles from Finland weeks ago that was US doing the firing with Ukraine as a fig-leaf. US wants a war with Russia and has been provoking one awhile. Now Putin is dropping the hammer naturally.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and a reason people note WWIII already underway
www.cbsnews.com
When "NATO" fired missiles from Finland weeks ago that was US doing the firing with Ukraine as a fig-leaf. US wants a war with Russia and has been provoking one awhile. Now Putin is dropping the hammer naturally.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and a reason people note WWIII already underway
Putin says NATO will be "in the war" if U.S. or allies let Ukraine fire long-range missiles at Russia
"If this decision is made, it will mean nothing less than the direct participation of NATO countries, the United States, and European countries," Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
www.cbsnews.com
Interesting that you take Putin’s appraisal of the situation as fact. Putin is perhaps the world’s greatest liar, an art perfected in his many years in the KGB. Let’s be clear, Putin invaded a democratic country in Eastern Europe. Everything that NATO and the US does to make his pathetic life miserable should be welcome news to a US citizen.When you read "Ukraine firing NATO missiles into Russia" it should really read US firing missiles into Russia. Ukraine is not able to access targeting and security protocols to fire missiles into Russia.
When "NATO" fired missiles from Finland weeks ago that was US doing the firing with Ukraine as a fig-leaf. US wants a war with Russia and has been provoking one awhile. Now Putin is dropping the hammer naturally.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and a reason people note WWIII already underway
Putin says NATO will be "in the war" if U.S. or allies let Ukraine fire long-range missiles at Russia
"If this decision is made, it will mean nothing less than the direct participation of NATO countries, the United States, and European countries," Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
Fired from Finland? Targettong Russian soil or at drones and missiles in Ukrainian air space or approaching Finnish territory? A fact check of Putin wouldn't hurt
The US and other NATO members supply Ukraine with military supplies.When you read "Ukraine firing NATO missiles into Russia" it should really read US firing missiles into Russia. Ukraine is not able to access targeting and security protocols to fire missiles into Russia.
When "NATO" fired missiles from Finland weeks ago that was US doing the firing with Ukraine as a fig-leaf. US wants a war with Russia and has been provoking one awhile. Now Putin is dropping the hammer naturally.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and a reason people note WWIII already underway
Putin says NATO will be "in the war" if U.S. or allies let Ukraine fire long-range missiles at Russia
"If this decision is made, it will mean nothing less than the direct participation of NATO countries, the United States, and European countries," Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
Also put restrictions on some missiles sent and evaluate those restrictions on the basis of how the latest Russian aggression is affecting Ukraine civilian population and if using those missiles would be a deterrent to that Russian aggression and/or if using those missiles to attack Russian territory would help the Ukraine keep Russian troops at bay and make sure those Russian troops didn't take anymore Ukrainian territory than they already took possession of when they started this war.
I see people complain about America and it's NATO allies supplying the Ukraine with weapons that country needs to defend itself from Russia taking it over , but not one peep about China, North Korea and Iran supplying weapons meant to destroy Ukrainian sites military and civilian .
Ukraine is doing such a good job defending itself with the help it's receiving Russia can't go it alone supplying its war machine and like the Ukraine needs help to carry on its fight
So Putin puts out propaganda trying to scare Ukraine's allies away from helping them and useful idiots fall in line pushing his BS.
Vladimir is taking a page out of Adolph's playbook and making fools of those who fall for his BS.
WW3 won't be started by NATO members , Russia is just trying to scare the easily swayed because Putin is feeling the pressure from those within his government to end the war and take the best deal he can get .
Russia started this war looking for an easy win, Putin refuses to back down despite seeing how the Ukraine is thwarting his best efforts and Russia having to rely on outside sources for military supplies like the Ukraine has to do. So he's trying to scare the people that are easily influenced in America and NATO countries to itch a bitch about what Putin claims will happen and stop the Ukraine from receiving the tools to keep Russia from taking it over before members of the Russian government finally stand up to Putin and say enough is enough: end this war or else.
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The smart people know unelected US agency tools staged a Ukrainian color revolution (Maidan) in 2014. Zelensky is eventual result of that. Zel is US tool and helps with DC grift.
He wanted to join NATO and maybe get nukes. ALL things no leader would want on their border. US promised not to meddle and that Ukraine would be neutral. But US meddles in everything. Calling Ukraine "democratic" after US pulled rug out from voters is pretty funny.
Ukraine and Russia were having good peace talks (arranged by NATO member Turkey) in 2022. US and UK undercut and flushed those. Now a half billion+ casualties later Ukraine war is lost (again the smart people know this a long time).
US sanctions failed and Russia doing great while US out of ammo. The kooks in DC want a war for their own selfish reasons. They will lose and might like that.
Ukraine may seek nuclear weapons if left out of NATO: Diplomat
Kyiv’s ambassador to Germany calls on the transatlantic security alliance to grant Ukraine long-sought membership.
The smart people know unelected US agency tools staged a Ukrainian color revolution (Maidan) in 2014. Zelensky is eventual result of that. Zel is US tool and helps with DC grift.
He wanted to join NATO and maybe get nukes. ALL things no leader would want on their border. US promised not to meddle and that Ukraine would be neutral. But US meddles in everything. Calling Ukraine "democratic" after US pulled rug out from voters is pretty funny.
Ukraine and Russia were having good peace talks (arranged by NATO member Turkey) in 2022. US and UK undercut and flushed those. Now a half billion+ casualties later Ukraine war is lost (again the smart people know this a long time).
US sanctions failed and Russia doing great while US out of ammo. The kooks in DC want a war for their own selfish reasons. They will lose and might like that.
Ukraine may seek nuclear weapons if left out of NATO: Diplomat
Kyiv’s ambassador to Germany calls on the transatlantic security alliance to grant Ukraine long-sought membership.www.aljazeera.com
Please fact check half a billion casualties.
Please stop the apologies for authoritarians. “US pulled the rug out from voters”…what? Russia is doing terribly, they are losing people to the west and there is a lot of pressure internally on Putin, which he will try to quiet by the usual bullying. Putin is a cowardly bully like all authoritarians. They don’t like the modern world, democracy and diversity. They are incredibly egocentric, shallow , corrupt and belong on the ash heap of history. The dissidents who have been killed by Putin are 10 times the man that he is.The smart people know unelected US agency tools staged a Ukrainian color revolution (Maidan) in 2014. Zelensky is eventual result of that. Zel is US tool and helps with DC grift.
He wanted to join NATO and maybe get nukes. ALL things no leader would want on their border. US promised not to meddle and that Ukraine would be neutral. But US meddles in everything. Calling Ukraine "democratic" after US pulled rug out from voters is pretty funny.
Ukraine and Russia were having good peace talks (arranged by NATO member Turkey) in 2022. US and UK undercut and flushed those. Now a half billion+ casualties later Ukraine war is lost (again the smart people know this a long time).
US sanctions failed and Russia doing great while US out of ammo. The kooks in DC want a war for their own selfish reasons. They will lose and might like that.
Ukraine may seek nuclear weapons if left out of NATO: Diplomat
Kyiv’s ambassador to Germany calls on the transatlantic security alliance to grant Ukraine long-sought membership.
The smart people know unelected US agency tools staged a Ukrainian color revolution (Maidan) in 2014. Zelensky is eventual result of that. Zel is US tool and helps with DC grift.
He wanted to join NATO and maybe get nukes. ALL things no leader would want on their border. US promised not to meddle and that Ukraine would be neutral. But US meddles in everything. Calling Ukraine "democratic" after US pulled rug out from voters is pretty funny.
Ukraine and Russia were having good peace talks (arranged by NATO member Turkey) in 2022. US and UK undercut and flushed those. Now a half billion+ casualties later Ukraine war is lost (again the smart people know this a long time).
US sanctions failed and Russia doing great while US out of ammo. The kooks in DC want a war for their own selfish reasons. They will lose and might like that.
Ukraine may seek nuclear weapons if left out of NATO: Diplomat
Kyiv’s ambassador to Germany calls on the transatlantic security alliance to grant Ukraine long-sought membership.
Russian propaganda.
Biden is now playing with Fire. Dangerous Dangerous world...
tass.com
Biden accusing himself 17 years ago of an impeachable offense.
US missile defense base in Poland long among Russian armyâs targets â Foreign Ministry
Maria Zakharova stated that the US-NATO construction project, ongoing for nearly a decade with complete disregard to Russian security concerns, has consistently been a focus of Russia's attention
tass.com
Biden accusing himself 17 years ago of an impeachable offense.
Biden is now playing with Fire. Dangerous Dangerous world...
US missile defense base in Poland long among Russian armyâs targets â Foreign Ministry
Maria Zakharova stated that the US-NATO construction project, ongoing for nearly a decade with complete disregard to Russian security concerns, has consistently been a focus of Russia's attention
Biden accusing himself 17 years ago of an impeachable offense.
Quoting Tass is hardly the way to change minds.
Hope all realize what's really going on here.
The missiles cost money.
The missiles are bought from defense industry companies.
Investors and execs of those companies make money.
That money comes from your children and grandchildren and benefits the politically connected and elite investor class.
The fact that it costs Russian, Ukrainian, and North Korean (and possibly American and NATO) lives is beside the point.
The people in charge of all this know Trump will not be spending your children's and grandchildren's futures to help wage these wars. So they had to do it now.. wring every bit of profit out of it while they can.
The missiles cost money.
The missiles are bought from defense industry companies.
Investors and execs of those companies make money.
That money comes from your children and grandchildren and benefits the politically connected and elite investor class.
The fact that it costs Russian, Ukrainian, and North Korean (and possibly American and NATO) lives is beside the point.
The people in charge of all this know Trump will not be spending your children's and grandchildren's futures to help wage these wars. So they had to do it now.. wring every bit of profit out of it while they can.
Russia is going for grabbing more land
The Ukraine knows America will cut aid once Trump gets in office.and Zelenskyy is trying to be in the best possible position when Trump tells him to accept a truce and give up territory to Russia to end the war.
Putin knows he has Trump willing to allow him to keep the territory Russia took from the Ukraine and will tell Zelenskyy to give that up or expect no support from the USA
Russia holds about 20% of the Ukraine mainly in Eastern Ukraine and will demand to keep most of that land and the Ukraine controls a small section of Russian territory that they will have to give up to get a little of the section Russia controls.
Once US says it will stop the majority of aid America supplies :the Ukraine will be forced to settle and besides losing territory will be forced to give up joining NATO and NATO troops won't be allowed access to that country as part of the peace deal
The Ukraine also might have to give up applying to be a member of the EU to get Putin to withdraw his troops from the part of East Ukraine that Russia agrees to give back in exchange for Russian territory Ukrainian troops are holding when the peace talks begin .
Once Trump is in charge, game over for the Ukraine and Putin will get the land he invaded for and keep the Ukraine from turning to the West for allies while making moves to get Zelenskyy out of office and replace the Ukrainian government with a Russian friendly one
Biden is now playing with Fire. Dangerous Dangerous world...
US missile defense base in Poland long among Russian armyâs targets â Foreign Ministry
Maria Zakharova stated that the US-NATO construction project, ongoing for nearly a decade with complete disregard to Russian security concerns, has consistently been a focus of Russia's attention
Biden accusing himself 17 years ago of an impeachable offense.
And Putin didn't play with fire bringing North Korean troops to the fighting?
Yeah, I’m not in favor of appeasement to aggressor nations.
Especially when the aggressor nation is led by a brutal dictator, while the nation being attacked is a democracy.
Allrighty then whats the next escalation, our Ageis ashore missle defense system in Poland?
Whats our next move after that?
With a President who should have been removed by the 25th amendment long ago.
Tit fer tat, boom fer boom KABOOM FER KABOOM?
The next escalation's up to Putin. You seem to forget HE is the invader. And if he threatens Poland I have no problem providing them with a DEFENSIVE missile system
No I'm not forgetting anything, Have you forgotten the JAVELINS? HIMARS? M1 ABRAMS? BRADLEE FVS?
BRADLEE STINGER FV'S F16's? ATACEMS? These are Defensive systems?
The Biden administration allowed this to get to the point WE are now in.
The US has spent $61 Billion American tax dollars to give to Ukraine. What's the next step of escalation for the US, Blood letting?
They ARE defensive weapons when fired at an invading army, particularly when those invaders are on Ukrainian soil.
Russia and Ukraine were having peace talks sponsored by Turkey in March of 2022 - just weeks after hostilities over Zel's announced desire for nukes and NATO membership (long known as a Russian red line even before Putin). Biden crew and Boris in UK forbade the talks - opting for an escalation that eventually got half million Ukrainians decimated. Of course US bureaucrats staged a color revolution (Maidan Uprising) in Ukraine in 2014 in order to undermine democratically elected gov.
US broke its own border for subversive purposes and the idea they care about Ukraine's is farcical. Factions in US and EU want to take Ukraine over for themselves - BlackRock already has the contracts to rebuild the US financed destruction ( https://qz.com/blackrock-jpmorgan-private-investors-ukraine-fund-1851334929 ). Kiev was actually spared destruction but now the kooks will cause that
Obviously Joey Marbles isn't calling the shots (mental decay a reason for kicking him off ballot late in the game). Col Macgregor explains just how serious this deliberate mess is.
Russia's demands in 2022 were Ukraine's recognition of Russian-occupied Crimea, independence for separatist-controlled Luhansk and Donetsk.
In other words the Ukraine surrender the land Russia invaded and occupied
>In other words, Vladimir Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state.<
www.atlanticcouncil.org
Biden wasn't going to be another Neville Chamberlain,and force the Ukraine to agree to terms that were just about an unconditional surrender to the Russia invaders.
Once that happened Putin wouldn't stop until the Ukraine was a satellite nation and Russia would just start looking for another country to do a land grab claiming it was Russian territory they are bringing back to the fold.
Putin has taken a page out of Hitler's playbook and appeasing him is a Neville Chamberlain move.
Biden knew that and in 2022 refused to let Putin win in the Ukraine like Chamberlain did for Hitler in Czechoslovakia .
Putin had annexed the Crimean Peninsula from the Ukraine without much opposition and watching other countries pout but really do nothing about it , just like Hitler made Austria part of Germany without other countries doing more than protesting that move then accepting it .
In other words the Ukraine surrender the land Russia invaded and occupied
>In other words, Vladimir Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state.<
Putin’s 2022 ‘peace proposal’ was a blueprint for the destruction of Ukraine
New details of talks between Russia and Ukraine during spring 2022 confirm that Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state, writes Peter Dickinson.
www.atlanticcouncil.org
Biden wasn't going to be another Neville Chamberlain,and force the Ukraine to agree to terms that were just about an unconditional surrender to the Russia invaders.
Once that happened Putin wouldn't stop until the Ukraine was a satellite nation and Russia would just start looking for another country to do a land grab claiming it was Russian territory they are bringing back to the fold.
Putin has taken a page out of Hitler's playbook and appeasing him is a Neville Chamberlain move.
Biden knew that and in 2022 refused to let Putin win in the Ukraine like Chamberlain did for Hitler in Czechoslovakia .
Putin had annexed the Crimean Peninsula from the Ukraine without much opposition and watching other countries pout but really do nothing about it , just like Hitler made Austria part of Germany without other countries doing more than protesting that move then accepting it .
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That has nothing to do with what I said.
I said the reason WE are encouraging this.. funding this.. is because it lines particular peoples pockets.
But, if you want to get into motivations of the parties in Ukraine and Russia, you need to ask yourself why we worked to throw over teh legitimate government of Ukraine in 2014.
Why did we get involved? What did we claim.. the president at the time as corrupt? What a joke. That president was too pro-Russian?
The term "Balkanization" was applied to Tito and Yougoslavia to describe how he broke up ethnic and regionally nationalistic groups by forcing enough of them to move into other regions. Stalin did the same thing. This is why Russians live in Ukraine and Ukrainians live in Russia. Same for Georgians, etc etc etc. The idea was to have everyone identify ONLY with teh new state... the new Empire.. they were no longer to be Ukrainians.. they were Soviet Comrades.
The nice side effect.. for Stalin.. was that it was harder, say, for Ukrainians to band together to declare independence because there would be Russians among them as well as Ukrainians who agreed with teh Soviet plan and Identity.
So.. that's what's going on here.
In 2014 you had a Ukrainian president who did not want to be in NATO.. who wished for a peaceful relationship with Russia.. who tried to respect the rights of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
So we made sure he was prosecuted as corrupt and replaced him with a comedian who would do what he was told by those who wanted Ukraine.. and its resources.. in Nato and aligned with the West against Putin and Russia. Oh.. and he had to be okay with laundering US aid money to Ukraine to pay off US Senators and their friends and sons of future presidents.
Have you ever wondered how every politician on both sides of the aisle invests so well and comes out of their time in DC far far wealthier than when they arrived? How do they all get lucrative book deals from publishing arms of international conglomerates? No one reads those books.. no one buys them.
Well, they borrow from future generations, print money now, give it away to foreign entities, and get a piece of the pie on the back end. The more aid they give the more wealthy they and their friends and family become.
So Zelensky starts allowing ethnic-Russian Ukrainian property to be seized and so on. So those ethnic Russians looked for aid from Putin.. and they got it.
Eventually, the western interests get their war.. where the REAL money can start being made.
And, of course, control of the media helps in painting the picture that the maniac Putin just wants to seize land before he dies.. he wants to put back together the USSR..
Let me ask you all this.. if the media lied to you about "fine people" and Trump being a Russian stooge in 2016 and that Hunter's laptop was a Russian op... why wouldn't they lie to you about Putin and Russia?
More ethnic Russians lived in Crimea than Ukrainians. The other provinces discussed less so, but they were persecuted once Zelinsky assumed power because THAT would help bring about a profitable conflict for certain interests.Russia's demands in 2022 were Ukraine's recognition of Russian-occupied Crimea, independence for separatist-controlled Luhansk and Donetsk.
In other words the Ukraine surrender the land Russia invaded and occupied
>In other words, Vladimir Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state.<
Putin’s 2022 ‘peace proposal’ was a blueprint for the destruction of Ukraine
New details of talks between Russia and Ukraine during spring 2022 confirm that Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state, writes Peter Dickinson.
Biden wasn't going to be another Neville Chamberlain,and force the Ukraine to agree to terms that were just about an unconditional surrender to the Russia invaders.
Once that happened Putin wouldn't stop until the Ukraine was a satellite nation and Russia would just start looking for another country to do a land grab claiming it was Russian territory they are bringing back to the fold.
Putin has taken a page out of Hitler's playbook and appeasing him is a Neville Chamberlain move.
Biden knew that and in 2022 refused to let Putin win in the Ukraine like Chamberlain did for Hitler in Czechoslovakia .
Putin had annexed the Crimean Peninsula from the Ukraine without much opposition and watching other countries pout but really do nothing about it , just like Hitler made Austria part of Germany without other countries doing more than protesting that move then accepting it .
Ukraine became independent in 1991.
Putin was first PM in 1999.
Russia was okay with Ukrainian administration of Crimea. and Russia's Black Sea Naval Base location for 20 years. Putin was okay with it for 15 years.
Then we pulled off the coup in 2014 and Putin said, NO, a Ukraine run by a western puppet cannot control Crimea.. it would lose an important Naval base. So they took it. And they needed land access from Russia so they took that.. but it was very tenuous.
Then Putin and Russia sees all this talk about adding Ukraine to NATO and THAT was too much. To have NATO land right on their border and that close to Moscow. So they wanted a buffer zone.
Now.. tell me.. if that were happening in Mexico or Canada.. say, China and North Korea teams to overthrow Trudeau in Canada (not that they need to) and installed a puppet (not that he is not already a puppet) and Canada joined an alliance against NATO and the USA.. you think we should do nothing about that? What if a bunch of Canadians asked for our help to fight Chinese control of their land and property say, in British Columbia between Washington and Alaska? What if China was going to use Toronto as a naval base and put an air base in Ottowa?
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Crimea's population is almost entirely Russian and over 80% of them like being under Russian administration.Russia's demands in 2022 were Ukraine's recognition of Russian-occupied Crimea, independence for separatist-controlled Luhansk and Donetsk.
In other words the Ukraine surrender the land Russia invaded and occupied
>In other words, Vladimir Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state.<
Putin’s 2022 ‘peace proposal’ was a blueprint for the destruction of Ukraine
New details of talks between Russia and Ukraine during spring 2022 confirm that Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state, writes Peter Dickinson.
Crimea used to be part of USSR and fell away with mess of disintegration.
Russians are a minority in Ukraine (just over 17%) and not particularly well treated by rest of population.
Crimea fell to Russia as a result of the Maidan Revolution's US machinations.
There was no real war to take Crimea and US/UK went along.
The Atlantic Council is old fossil group that espouses "Atlanticism" and takes a lot of funding from NATO and members
Crimea in blue at bottom - they are Russian and not "prisoners" wanting liberation
The rationalization that because there is a significant ethnic population in a neighboring sovereign country can be used as a pretext for invasion or annexation by an autocratic regime is pure Nazi philosophy. See Germany’s annexation of Austria (The Anschluss), Czechlosavakia (The Sudetenland) , Poland (Danzig). Remarkable that seemingly intelligent, informed folks would buy into the Russian view of the situation. But then again, Germany in the 1920s had one of the most advanced, literate and cultured populations in Europe , yet enough of them supported a thug movement led by a deranged psychopath, only resulting in the destruction of the European continent and about 60 million deaths.
Beyond that, the invasion was designed to seize the entire country and not merely Crimea. The first place they went for was Kiev. And the Russian treatment of the civilian population in the occupied areas, mainly ethnic Ukranian, was definitely not liberator-like.
And knowing Putin, on deck were (and perhaps are) the Baltics.
The rationalization that because there is a significant ethnic population in a neighboring sovereign country can be used as a pretext for invasion or annexation by an autocratic regime is pure Nazi philosophy...except for when it happens in Texas.
Where are the front lines now?Crimea in blue at bottom - they are Russian and not "prisoners" wanting liberation
How far west has Russia advanced?
Sure.. project a future that supports anything you want. Why didn't teh Baltic States come first for Putin? Why shouldn't Ukraine have been "next on deck". The Baltics are easier to do, right? No NATO neighbors.
Upon the breakup of the USSR, Russia wanted normalization with the west. They were promised that NATO would not spread to their borders. Then in 2014, the USA and UK helps oust a Russian-friendly PM in Ukraine and installs a NATO puppet with talk of Ukraine joining NATO.
WE did this.
This war is our fault.
This is not an example of Putin suddenly becoming Hitler and an expansionist. That is the story WE tell to justify anything we want to do. And what WE want to do is have our corporations control Ukraine's assets and then oust Putin and do the same thing in Russia.
How many times do we have to see this same thing happen before we say to our government to just knock it off. Stop mortgaging our children's future to enrich business interests today (while those business interests pay off the politicians, and even the military leaders, to make it all happen).
CHINA is truly expansionist. Are we funding any wars against them on behalf of Tibet, the Uyghurs in East Turkmenistan, Bhutan, Japan or the Philippines? We won't even state outright that an attack on Taiwan will resort in war. Ukraine has assets our business interests want to control. So did Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya... you name it. So does Iran.
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Didn't go after the Baltics first because the Baltics have been in NATO since 2004. They didn't need NATO neighbors. Also, since this started they now DO have NATO neighbors. And while Yeltsin might have wanted normalization that was nowhere near a universal opinion, and certainly wasn't Putin's and the remnants of the KGB.
Ahh.. so they did not attack them first because they are in NATO.. but they will now after attacking Ukraine. Right.
Or, it could be that assuming they would just attack the Baltic States after Ukraine.. stating that.. could help justify going to war with Russia, first by proxy in Ukraine and then directly.
Gotcha.
Yes.. I knew the Baltics were in NATO but making that "mistake" highlighted that WE had gone back on our word about NATO expansion to Russia's borders before and no invasion occurred. But Ukraine was too much and Putin did something about it this time. Think of Putin as having been a first-term President in 2004.. 5 years in. He probably did not know how to resist NATO expansion. Heck.. perhaps that expansion in 2004 was the first attempt to force a war with Russia.
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There was significant opposition to the annexation of Texas in the US and the Federal Government, especially by the Whig party. The annexation was originally voted down, there was opposition to adding the Texas Republic as a pro slavery territory and there was hard core opposition to the emerging Mexican - American war. There are plenty of examples in US history of very undemocratic policy and behavior. Numerous examples of violations of individual and civil liberties. The Nazis in fact, closely studied the US segregation policies which existed in the American south from 1870 - 1965 as a model for some of their policies.
Russia maintains 4 oblasts in the east but territory hasn't been the main goal (one reason they let Kiev alone), Russian style Military strategy focuses on destroying enemy forces. They use "kettling" or "pocketing" were targeting troops are surrounded and contained and then they destroy them with artillery, thermobaric weapons and such.
Pocket (military) - Wikipedia
US media get things wrong a lot because Russia will kettle and smash a portion of Ukrainian soldiers and then leave the area. When Ukrainian forces move back into the destroyed area, US media will report it as "a successful counter-offensive" which it never was.
US news is essentially "puppet media" fed by US blob. Obama advisor Ben Rhodes described them as youngsters easy to manipulate because most only cover campaigns and know little about foreign affairs. Rhodes conned them over Iran.
US military experts like Doug Macgregor say Putin hasn't been going as hard as he could have. He wanted to avoid destruction of Ukraine (he sees Kiev as a special place) and creating the larger war of opportunity that NATO types want. Kiev is where the reporters and foreign politicians stay. There is electric, internet, heating etc and people still party and live normal. There never was a "battle for Kiev" that was won by Ukraine.
The war began with an attempt to depose the unpopular Zelensky in Kiev. Chechens were supposed to get into Kiev while a bunch of low trained recruits drove around in 1980s/90s vehicles as distractions. The Turkish drones and NATO trained forces did better than expected and the mission was a flop. Then US and others made it all into an "invasion of conquest" and sack of Kiev. Putin just wanted Ukraine neutral and free from foreign installed governments seeded by NATO.
The Hitler/Nazi stuff is a device the media and blob use.
Putin is also portrayed as a communist dictator like Stalin but he's not a communist or like Stalin.
Even Obama crew weren't taking Crimea annexation as "an invasion" of great weight.
Empires are recognized as destructive burdens (USSR was a victim).
Putin isn't interested in new USSR as media suggests - he wanted Ukraine neutral as US/NATO promised after the fall.
US/NATO are the provocateurs and Russia was not going to let NATO/Nukes in Ukraine.
Imagine US breaking-up and losing CA with Russia and China and Iran trying to take over.
"Former President Obama on Thursday defended his response to Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, saying that circumstances were different then compared to Russia’s military invasion of Ukraine last year.
“Ukraine of that time was not the Ukraine that we’re talking about today,” Obama said in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour. “There’s a reason there was not an armed invasion of Crimea, because Crimea was full of a lot of Russian speakers, and there was some sympathy to the views that Russia was representing.”
Russia illegally held an election and annexed the Crimean peninsula of Ukraine in 2014. In response, the U.S. and European allies led a sanctions campaign which fell far short of its goals in weakening Russia and preventing further action in Ukraine."
2021 Just Before War - this was the provocation following 2014 Maiden meddling by US
Ukraine may seek nuclear weapons if left out of NATO: Diplomat
Kyiv’s ambassador to Germany calls on the transatlantic security alliance to grant Ukraine long-sought membership.
So still mostly orange or not?Russia maintains 4 oblasts in the east but territory hasn't been the main goal (one reason they let Kiev alone), Russian style Military strategy focuses on destroying enemy forces. They use "kettling" or "pocketing" were targeting troops are surrounded and contained and then they destroy them with artillery, thermobaric weapons and such.
Pocket (military) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
US media get things wrong a lot because Russia will kettle and smash a portion of Ukrainian soldiers and then leave the area. When Ukrainian forces move back into the destroyed area, US media will report it as "a successful counter-offensive" which it never was.
US news is essentially "puppet media" fed by US blob. Obama advisor Ben Rhodes described them as youngsters easy to manipulate because most only cover campaigns and know little about foreign affairs. Rhodes conned them over Iran.
US military experts like Doug Macgregor say Putin hasn't been going as hard as he could have. He wanted to avoid destruction of Ukraine (he sees Kiev as a special place) and creating the larger war of opportunity that NATO types want. Kiev is where the reporters and foreign politicians stay. There is electric, internet, heating etc and people still party and live normal. There never was a "battle for Kiev" that was won by Ukraine.
The war began with an attempt to depose the unpopular Zelensky in Kiev. Chechens were supposed to get into Kiev while a bunch of low trained recruits drove around in 1980s/90s vehicles as distractions. The Turkish drones and NATO trained forces did better than expected and the mission was a flop. Then US and others made it all into an "invasion of conquest" and sack of Kiev. Putin just wanted Ukraine neutral and free from foreign installed governments seeded by NATO.
