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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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Some experts seems to think this self quarantine shit will be necessary for 18 months.

How long do you think it would need to be before public opinion goes to the side of "**** it, let what happens happen"?
 
They’ll have a vaccine in 18 months.....nobody is quarantining for that long
 
A little history which helps explain why clowns are in charge of the circus:

"It began in April 2018 — more than a year and a half before the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the disease it causes, Covid-19, sickened enough people in China that authorities realized they were dealing with a new disease.

The Trump administration, with John Bolton newly at the helm of the White House National Security Council, began dismantling the team in charge of pandemic response, firing its leadership and disbanding the team in spring 2018.

The cuts, coupled with the administration’s repeated calls to cut the budget for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other public health agencies, made it clear that the Trump administration wasn’t prioritizing the federal government’s ability to respond to disease outbreaks."

The cart is before the horse. The tail is wagging the dog. However you want to term it. I sure hope I am wrong, but we are moving towards a very ugly scene soon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/
 
I've posted about this several times - have you read those? The professionals are very likely right and wrong. The masks don't do much to prevent a healthy person from getting the virus, since they're so often misused, but they actually do a good job at their primary task - they're used by doctors to prevent the healthy doctors from infecting patients in surgery and in infection wards (and docs know how to use them very well and it helps protect them in infection wards too).

Mask use is mostly about preventing healthy, but infected (or mildly symptomatic) people from infecting others. Every country that's been successful in containment has a population where everyone has adopted use of masks. Unlikely coincidence. We haven't had them, so they haven't been an option. If they were available everyone should wear them during this time.

Latest from Italy, suggesting more than half of positive cases are asymptomatic and some are contagious, so infection and re-infection is going on, including from doctors/nurses to patients (since they don't know it). Here's the translation. This is not "peer-reviewed" medical literature, but it's clearly breaking news from the front from medical professionals. Further reason for everyone to stay in quarantine or if they venture outside, to wear masks, mostly so infected but asymptomatic (or mildly symptomatic) people don't keep infecting others.

ROME - "The vast majority of people infected with Covid-19, between 50 and 75%, are completely asymptomatic but represent a formidable source of contagion". The Professor of Clinical Immunology of the University of Florence Sergio Romagnani writes this at the top of the Tuscany Region, in anticipation of a strong increase in cases also in the Region, on the basis of the study on the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo where the 3000 inhabitants of the country are been subjected to swab. The immunologist explains that the data provided by the study carried out on all the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo highlight two very important information: "the percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is very high and represents the majority of cases above all, but not only that, among young people; and the isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and the severity of the disease ".

For Romagnani, what is now crucial in the battle against the virus is "trying to flush out asymptomatic people who are already infected because nobody fears or isolates them. This is particularly true for categories such as doctors and nurses who frequently develop an infection. asymptomatic by continuing to spread the infection between them and their patients. " And again: "It is being decided not to swab doctors and nurses again unless they develop symptoms. But in light of the results of Vo 'study, this decision can be extremely dangerous; hospitals risk becoming areas of high prevalence of infected in which no infected is isolated ". In Vo '- Romagnani points out - with the isolation of infected subjects, the total number of patients fell from 88 to 7 (at least 10 times less) within 7-10 days.

The isolation of the infected (symptomatic or non-symptomatic) was not only able to protect other people from contagion, but also appeared to protect against the serious evolution of the disease in infected subjects because the cure rate in infected patients, if isolated, was in 60% of cases equal to only 8 days.


https://www.repubblica.it/salute/me...ArbXrCIy2EkiGesR-LB9XeqvqWmKxTJCo5MzJcBuvQwRc

As an aside, I posted about this days ago somewhere, but the Diamond Princess data showed similar outcomes, in which 17% of 3700 passengers were positive (everyone was tested on the big floating virus transmission experiment), but of those nearly half were asymptomatic. We've known the DP data for weeks now. The report below just confirms that.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate

Edit: @RUfubar - thought you'd find this interesting, as an MD on the front lines. Testing and masks, testing and masks. Are there other MDs on the board? Thought there were a couple but can't recall.
 
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Some experts seems to think this self quarantine shit will be necessary for 18 months.

How long do you think it would need to be before public opinion goes to the side of "**** it, let what happens happen"?

Effff that. It’s day 1 and I’m already stir crazy.
 
Right, the report basically says that the social distancing would be necessary until the vaccine is ready.


just like others stuff like measles and polio it becomes part of life, it will become part of life until a vaccine is found...that is the new reality we will live through..we weathered stuff like this before, we will again until the vaccine comes
 
You want to believe the experts who brushed aside the severity of this virus when it was about to and/or hitting our shores? Then dragged their feet with the testing process? The government response was abominable.

You are saying you know more than the cdc and medical scholars.... love it
 
bac/let's go et al - I'm not a mod, but my opinion is arguing over the effectiveness of masks for asymptomatic patients is fair for this thread, but arguing about what happened in the CDC over a year ago is better on the CE threads, where those are being discussed. And yes, I know I've occasionally argued a few poltiical points in this thread, but mostly about what's happening now or very recently which seems much more relevant for this thread where the mods have tried to keep it focused on current info. Just my two cents
 
You are saying you know more than the cdc and medical scholars.... love it

I'm glad you do and thank you. You are failing to digest the information at hand. I never said I knew more than the CDC or medical scholars. But it doesn't take much to realize how this was severely mishandled. You honestly believe masks are not appropriate? Based on who? Should I believe the head of the Covid-19 pandemic Mike Pence? Whats his medical training? Maybe it's a babbling president who can even get his thoughts straight. Oh, or Debbie Birx who referred to late pregnancy as the "third trisemester". Or good ole Debbie pawning of a question to her mentor on stage today while they snickered back and forth to each other while America is undergoing this problem. It was like a bad PTA meeting but in front of a national audience. No, I might not have more education, but I outweigh most of them in practical frontline experience. Are you listening to the physicians on TV who are pleading for masks? Are they not credible enough for you? Instead you hedge your bets on a replacement, skeleton crew who has made many wrong decisions from the start. Guess what...they are too late to stop this now. If you cant decipher how bad this was botched by the almighty CDC and the experts, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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Saw a report of this drug possibly being an effective treatment for CV

https://www.drugs.com/hydroxychloroquine.html
It's being used right now as are a number of antivirals like remdesivir and the various HepC, HIV, chicken pox and other anti-virals and I can guarantee you not just the big ones, but some minor ones that may find a new use for CV2. I've seen reports in the medical literature and in social media from front line doctors on this. Let's hope we get a hit on one or maybe a combo of these.
 
Latest from Italy, suggesting more than half of positive cases are asymptomatic and some are contagious, so infection and re-infection is going on, including from doctors/nurses to patients (since they don't know it). Here's the translation. This is not "peer-reviewed" medical literature, but it's clearly breaking news from the front from medical professionals. Further reason for everyone to stay in quarantine or if they venture outside, to wear masks, mostly so infected but asymptomatic (or mildly symptomatic) people don't keep infecting others.

ROME - "The vast majority of people infected with Covid-19, between 50 and 75%, are completely asymptomatic but represent a formidable source of contagion". The Professor of Clinical Immunology of the University of Florence Sergio Romagnani writes this at the top of the Tuscany Region, in anticipation of a strong increase in cases also in the Region, on the basis of the study on the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo where the 3000 inhabitants of the country are been subjected to swab. The immunologist explains that the data provided by the study carried out on all the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo highlight two very important information: "the percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is very high and represents the majority of cases above all, but not only that, among young people; and the isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and the severity of the disease ".

For Romagnani, what is now crucial in the battle against the virus is "trying to flush out asymptomatic people who are already infected because nobody fears or isolates them. This is particularly true for categories such as doctors and nurses who frequently develop an infection. asymptomatic by continuing to spread the infection between them and their patients. " And again: "It is being decided not to swab doctors and nurses again unless they develop symptoms. But in light of the results of Vo 'study, this decision can be extremely dangerous; hospitals risk becoming areas of high prevalence of infected in which no infected is isolated ". In Vo '- Romagnani points out - with the isolation of infected subjects, the total number of patients fell from 88 to 7 (at least 10 times less) within 7-10 days.

The isolation of the infected (symptomatic or non-symptomatic) was not only able to protect other people from contagion, but also appeared to protect against the serious evolution of the disease in infected subjects because the cure rate in infected patients, if isolated, was in 60% of cases equal to only 8 days.


https://www.repubblica.it/salute/me...ArbXrCIy2EkiGesR-LB9XeqvqWmKxTJCo5MzJcBuvQwRc

As an aside, I posted about this days ago somewhere, but the Diamond Princess data showed similar outcomes, in which 17% of 3700 passengers were positive (everyone was tested on the big floating virus transmission experiment), but of those nearly half were asymptomatic. We've known the DP data for weeks now. The report below just confirms that.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate

Interesting. I wonder if these asymptomatic cases likely remain asymptomatic or just have a really long incubation period before symptoms set in?
 
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1. Novel virus, never been found in humans before, so no immunity
2. High viral loads
3. Asymptomatic carriers shed said high viral loads
4. Bad hygienic practices

5. Very long incubation period -- 2-14 days. Some reports say even up to 21 days.
 
It's being used right now as are a number of antivirals like remdesivir and the various HepC, HIV, chicken pox and other anti-virals and I can guarantee you not just the big ones, but some minor ones that may find a new use for CV2. I've seen reports in the medical literature and in social media from front line doctors on this. Let's hope we get a hit on one or maybe a combo of these.

Dont forget HIV drug Kaletra. Data in July tho. But next to remdesivir and chloroquin, it's the third banana to be heavily utilized for compassionate use in China and I suppose now, all over.

https://life4me.plus/en/news/covid19-6042/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Australian-researchers-CURE-coronavirus.html



.
 
How come the virus seem muted in some densely populated countries like India and Brazil? Tropical warm weather a factor?
 
How come the virus seem muted in some densely populated countries like India and Brazil? Tropical warm weather a factor?
See my post above about the weather - there's no way it can be a factor yet, just based on US data. And while India and Brazil are low, Iran has the 3rd most infections. Far more likely the variability we're seeing is due to how many infected people traveled to these countries and then how many "superspreaders" were infected.
 
I'm glad you do and thank you. You are failing to digest the information at hand. I never said I knew more than the CDC or medical scholars. But it doesn't take much to realize how this was severely mishandled. You honestly believe masks are not appropriate? Based on who? Should I believe the head of the Covid-19 pandemic Mike Pence? Whats his medical training? Maybe it's a babbling president who can even get his thoughts straight. Oh, or Debbie Birx who referred to late pregnancy as the "third trisemester". Or good ole Debbie pawning of a question to her mentor on stage today while they snickered back and forth to each other while America is undergoing this problem. It was like a bad PTA meeting but in front of a national audience. No, I might not have more education, but I outweigh most of them in practical frontline experience. Are you listening to the physicians on TV who are pleading for masks? Are they not credible enough for you? Instead you hedge your bets on a replacement, skeleton crew who has made many wrong decisions from the start. Guess what...they are too late to stop this now. If you cant decipher how bad this was botched by the almighty CDC and the experts, I don't know what to tell you.

Fos..you think you know more than medical doctors..the women who was instrumental in the hiv fight...i will go with what she says

And you know what..the humor is appreciated by them...its called being human
 
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Interesting. I wonder if these asymptomatic cases likely remain asymptomatic or just have a really long incubation period before symptoms set in?
There's a range; some remain asymptomatic, while some develop mild to serious symptoms - haven't seen exact percentage on those, but am convinced that testing, testing, testing to ID these people and quarantine them is the biggest key to slowing this down, without having to shut the world completely down, although if every person in the country self-quarantined for 14 days, we'd be done with the outbreak.
 
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There's a range; some remain asymptomatic, while some develop mild to serious symptoms - haven't seen exact percentage on those, but am convinced that testing, testing, testing to ID these people and quarantine them is the biggest key to slowing this down, without having to shut the world completely down, although if every person in the country self-quarantined for 14 days, we'd be done with the outbreak.

And it looks like that is what the Bay Area did earlier today - shelter-in-place orders that are even more aggressive than the programs in NY/NJ - basically, almost everybody has to stay at home (with some exceptions for essential services/jobs) until April 7th. This will work, but only if everyone in the country does it or at least the vast majority with at least a few cases.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Bay-Area-must-shelter-in-place-Only-15135014.php
 
I wonder if Rock and I will be allowed to start out cleanups and mulchings. We are outside and have very little human contact..plus that grass will grow knee high by the beginning of May
 
I wonder if Rock and I will be allowed to start out cleanups and mulchings. We are outside and have very little human contact..plus that grass will grow knee high by the beginning of May
It would be stupid to prevent that kind of work, especially if you are not working closely with other people.
 
Yeah the only contact we really have is at the gas station and our nursery supplier. We almost never see our customers and try to hide from them if they are home
 
Yeah the only contact we really have is at the gas station and our nursery supplier. We almost never see our customers and try to hide from them if they are home
I hope that the landscaping business is allowed to work. I don't want to see my neighbors' lawns look like hell in a few weeks. I think that 4 out of 35 houses in my neighborhood take care of their own yard.
 
Sobering interview with Dr. Gottlieb, former FDA Commissioner, basically saying we need to start locking things down now in many places or else face a major epidemic and reactive quarantines, like in Italy. Things are very likely about to start getting very difficult around these parts.

DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, we have an epidemic underway here in the United States. There's a very large outbreak in Seattle. That's the one we know about, probably one in Santa Clara or maybe other parts of the country, other cities. And so we're past the point of containment. We have to implement broad mitigation strategies. The next two weeks are really going to change the complexion in this country. We'll get through this, but it's going to be a hard period. We're looking at two months probably of difficulty. To give you a basis of comparison, two weeks ago, Italy had nine cases. Ninety-five percent of all their cases have been diagnosed in the last 10 days. For South Korea, 85 percent of all their cases have been diagnosed in the last 10 days. We're entering that period right now of rapid acceleration. And the sooner we can implement tough mitigation steps in places we have outbreaks like Seattle, the- the lower the scope of the epidemic here.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-on-face-the-nation-march-8-2020/

And if anyone doubts what I've been saying about the US likely following Italy's trajectory and being where they are in 1-2 weeks, just have a look at this graphic, which shows how eerily close the US progression has been for the past week or so, compared to the early days of the outbreak in Italy. That's why I've been saying the US will likely have 5000+ cases in another week or so. So, please, start thinking about taking some precautions if you haven't already - even if you might not get sick (especially if younger), you could become a carrier and infect friends and family around you.

88286586_10218410956059258_607050183695400960_o.jpg

Well, almost exactly 8 days later and we have 4725 cases as of Monday, 3/16 with 1000 cases today, so going well over 5000 cases tomorrow, Tuesday, 3/17 is a foregone conclusion. I wish I had been wrong, but it was pretty obvious from the science and epidemiological math. When Italy had 4600 cases, 3 days later they started their national shutdown, although we can't compare those numbers directly, as we have 5X as many people - however, for our "hotspots" the comparison is close. We've started state-wide shutdowns in many states but have had little Federal leadership on this, which is needed badly, although it was nice to see the POTUS finally admit, today for the first time, that the outbreak was not under control and might take months to get under control. Maybe he'll even get the States military help and desperately needed medical supplies/beds and finally come through on the oft-promised test kits. Whether we're going to be Italy or we started our shutdowns just in time to "flatten the curve" by reducing transmission rates enough remains to be seen, especially in the major hotspots of Seattle and NYC (and many other cities not far behind - and NJ too).

It's about one week after Italy's initial shutdown (at 9000 cases) and they now have 28,000 cases and 2158 deaths and a broken health care system with people dying in hallways due to lack of medical care and equipment as the "peak" of sick people was way too high. 9 days ago, Italy and South Korea had about 7000 cases each with similar populations. South Korea, now has only about 8200 cases and 75 deaths with falling new case rates. Many of us have been screaming for a couple of weeks to adopt the SK model of intensive testing and quarantining the infected, asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic carriers who are contagious, but the US/CDC fumbled that approach, so now we're basically relying on aggressive social distancing, especially in the hotspots/densely populated areas. I'm not religious, but I might even say a prayer.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/opin...oronavirus-survivability-sepkowitz/index.html

KBpVVjG.png
 
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This is an opinion piece from infectious disease specialist from MSKCC but I think highlights some good points on the demographics between Italy and SK. I didn't realize it's mostly the younger getting it in SK...only around 20% of cases is in the above 60 population. I do think testing helps find them and then separate them from the older more vulnerable quicker. Wonder what might be the demographics in Germany, they seem to have an even lower mortality rate.

Some excerpts from the article:

So why does Korea, the poster child of testing, have so few deaths while Italy and its late-to-the-table testing program have so many? Is it only because more testing brings mild cases into the "infected" group, diluting the statistical impact of the handful of the very ill?

Doubtful. For now, it is because of vast differences in the affected patients. Soon and increasingly, it also will be due to overwhelmed hospitals and doctors and nurses.

Which is probably bad news for those hoping that the United States, which is currently way, way behind in testing for coronavirus, can somehow test itself out of the mess.

Plenty has already been written about how the population of Italy differs from much of the world. According to a UN report in 2015, 28.6% of the Italian population was 60 years old or older (second in the world after Japan at 33%). This compares to South Korea, where 18.5% of the population is at least 60 years of age, ranking 53rd globally.

The impact of this disparity is quickly shown in the analysis of coronavirus deaths in each county. In Italy, 90% of the more than 1,000 deaths occur in those 70 or older.

By contrast, the outbreak in South Korea has occurred among much younger people. There, only 20% of cases have been diagnosed in those 60 years old and up. The largest affected group is those in their 20s, who account for almost 30% of all cases.
Then there is gender. The gender split in COVID-19 cases worldwide is about 50-50, but there are gender differences in survival. According to data from the original outbreak in China, the overall death rate is 4.7% in men versus 2.8% in women -- a whopping difference. Which is good news for South Korea, where 62% of cases occur among women.

Smoking is another factor clearly associated with poor survival. Smoking rates are about the same between the two countries: 24% for Italians and 27% for South Koreans. But gender differences among smokers are widely different: In Italy, 28% of men versus 20% of women smoke, while in Korea, it is about 50% of men and less than 5% of women.

In other words, South Korea has an outbreak among youngish, non-smoking women, whereas Italy's disease is occurring among the old and the very old, many of whom are smokers. (We do not know the male-female breakdown of Italy's cases).

These basic demographic distinctions explain the difference in death rates between these two hard-hit countries -- as well as helping to explain why Seattle, with its nursing home outbreak, accounts for such a large proportion of US coronavirus deaths.

To understand exactly what is happening, we need daily case updates to include information about age and sex.

The blundering lack of an effective testing program in the US is an unconscionable failure and has led (and will lead) to more transmission of COVID-19.

But it is important to recognize that survival with the infection is a completely other matter, one that will require very different investments, training, and expertise.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/opin...oronavirus-survivability-sepkowitz/index.html
 
Well, almost exactly 8 days later and we have 4725 cases as of Monday, 3/16 with 1000 cases today, so going well over 5000 cases tomorrow, Tuesday, 3/17 is a foregone conclusion. I wish I had been wrong, but it was pretty obvious from the science and epidemiological math. When Italy had 4600 cases, 3 days later they started their national shutdown, although we can't compare those numbers directly, as we have 5X as many people - however, for our "hotspots" the comparison is close. We've started state-wide shutdowns in many states but have had little Federal leadership on this, which is needed badly, although it was nice to see the POTUS finally admit, today for the first time, that the outbreak was not under control and might take months to get under control. Maybe he'll even get the States military help and desperately needed medical supplies/beds and finally come through on the oft-promised test kits. Whether we're going to be Italy or we started our shutdowns just in time to "flatten the curve" by reducing transmission rates enough remains to be seen, especially in the major hotspots of Seattle and NYC (and many other cities not far behind - and NJ too).

It's about one week after Italy's initial shutdown (at 9000 cases) and they now have 28,000 cases and 2158 deaths and a broken health care system with people dying in hallways due to lack of medical care and equipment as the "peak" of sick people was way too high. 9 days ago, Italy and South Korea had about 7000 cases each with similar populations. South Korea, now has only about 8200 cases and 75 deaths with falling new case rates. Many of us have been screaming for a couple of weeks to adopt the SK model of intensive testing and quarantining the infected, asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic carriers who are contagious, but the US/CDC fumbled that approach, so now we're basically relying on aggressive social distancing, especially in the hotspots/densely populated areas. I'm not religious, but I might even say a prayer.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/opin...oronavirus-survivability-sepkowitz/index.html

KBpVVjG.png
Ha didn’t see you posted the same article I did just now but you didn’t mention the demographic differences between Italy and SK.

I think that’s an important point to note. I was surprised only about 20% of cases in the above 60 crowd in SK. Most cases were actually people in their 20s. I think testing and isolating of that younger crowd might have affected the lower rates of the more vulnerable. I think it might give credence to the idea that the younger are the carriers. If you identify them quick with tests you can isolate them faster before they spread to the older and vulnerable crowd.

Also smoking and gender differences in that seems to be important...in SK younger female non smokers vs older in Italy many who could be smokers.

I hope those kind of demographics help work in our favor a little but I do wonder how much vaping (in place of smoking) which has become somewhat popular among younger here would affect things too.
 
See my post above about the weather - there's no way it can be a factor yet, just based on US data. And while India and Brazil are low, Iran has the 3rd most infections. Far more likely the variability we're seeing is due to how many infected people traveled to these countries and then how many "superspreaders" were infected.

It’s too early to discount the weather.

Iran is a very large county with many different climates. There is no real data to suggest where exactly the outbreaks are occurring and the associated weather.

Incident rates do appear lower in warmer climates. Including South Korea, where spread was more contained than anywhere else seen in the world.
 
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Fos..you think you know more than medical doctors..the women who was instrumental in the hiv fight...i will go with what she says

And you know what..the humor is appreciated by them...its called being human

It's kind of unbelievable you will dismiss all the evidence that this was botched. Then hang your hat on people sitting behind a desk. But discredit the doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists who are required by the CDC and OSHA to comply with hospital policies to don masks in order to protect themselves. The same masks are required when transporting infected patients within the hospital. Why? It prevents the rate of transmission from increasing. These people are pleading for the correct equipment, are you not understanding this? Plus your assumptions are way off base about me. I'm over with you, you are to obtuse to understand.
 
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@RU848789

After looking at France report, I am more apprehensive

Dr Benjamin Davido is an infectious disease specialist at Raymond-Poincaré hospital in Garches, on the outskirts of Paris. He is the lead referral for COVID-19 and clinical lead for their ‘Plan Blanc’, the planned response to exceptional healthcare situations, which became a requirement following the terror attacks in 2014.

He spoke to Medscape’s French Edition.


Q&A
What is the situation in your hospital?

Since the beginning of [last] week, we have had a worrying and very significant increase in the number of cases. Currently, we receive one phone call for a screening request every 2 minutes, and one request to evaluate a patient suspected of having, or already tested positive for, COVID-19 every 10 minutes (and try to find a bed). We have had to assign two doctors full time to handle this.

In addition, today [13th March], outpatient screening of caregivers suspected of having the disease revealed that 40% tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. There is now a worrying degree of infection that shows the virus is circulating outside but also inside the hospital. This figure is all the more worrying because, 10 days ago, we were close to 0%. The increase did not happen by chance.

When we had only 40 cases in France, we relied on level 1 Health Referral Centres (établissements de santé de référence; HRCs), such as Bichat or Pitié-Salpêtrière hospitals in Paris, to absorb the flow of patients. Now we have more than 3000 infected individuals, it is obvious that the dozen level 1 HRCs across the country are no longer enough. Consequently, second line centres, like our hospital, are taking their turn, just in time.



We have had to adapt and put in place dedicated COVID-19 units. We have, as of today [13th March] a total of 11 beds, with a planned increase to 20 beds next week. Centres no longer have the time nor the space to receive and respond to the demand for screening. Fifteen days ago, the screening of suspected patients had to be done in the hospital with containment measures. Today, it is no longer possible as these places are taken by confirmed cases. Screening is therefore performed in the emergency department. This is stage 3 crisis management, although this has not yet been officially announced, which underlines the pressure from the flow of patients arriving in hospitals.


Are there annexes for screening?

Some hospitals have installed tents for urgent services, but you still need to have the capacity, to have the space and enough caregivers. And these tents only allow outpatient diagnoses, they don’t allow for patients considered fragile or severe cases requiring hospitalisation in a dedicated isolation facility.


Is France heading for a situation like Italy?


It is certain that the curves of the Italian and French epidemics can be superimposed; they are just separated in time by around 10 days. One difference between the two countries is that Italy has a particular set-up in which healthcare is organised separately by region, which may have led to a delay in the organisation of care.


Italy also organised the situation by geographic area; thinking, for example, that only the north of the country was affected, which was, in hindsight, probably a mistake. But in the same way, in France, in mid-February, we thought only in terms of clusters or people returning from at-risk zones, 10 km outside of which patients were not considered suspect, only for, the next day, those areas to become clusters.


Today, in France, we no longer talk of zones or foci of COVID-19, and we no longer take into account travel. On the contrary, we consider the severity of the illness, and it is the presence of unexplained pneumonia that makes us suspect a COVID-19 diagnosis, especially if it is serious straight away (in resuscitation, for example).


We are now in the middle of a major public health problem. We have stayed at stage 2 in terms of the health alert, in that we screen people with relevant symptoms, even if they are minor. But as we no longer include history of travel, and the relevant symptoms are flu-like, such as having a fever, a runny nose, or coughing, and that, chronologically, it is the peak of the flu epidemic, we have an enormous influx of patients who may have flu or seasonal viral infection (mainly rhinovirus). These are consistent with the new coronavirus and, as such, we cannot, for benign cases, make a clinical distinction between them. It becomes therefore impossible to screen everyone. In any case, we don’t have enough kits. We are at the stage of counting the number of cotton swabs to take samples…


Did France act too late to prevent shortages?


Yes. Personally, for 10 days, I and my colleagues have struggled with the healthcare teams to urgently set up a hospitalisation and screening structure to make the diagnoses, as some seemed doubtful due to the lack of anticipation by our local bodies. I don’t blame them, because bodies at the ministerial level have not given us the funds for taking the samples, as the laboratories themselves do not yet have the testing machines.


On the other hand, what should have been anticipated is the current situation where we find ourselves with questions over the supply of masks. There are general practitioners who cannot see patients in their office due to a lack of surgical masks (FFP2s [masks] only have demonstrated effectiveness in resuscitation and when obtaining the sample), while we are in a period of seasonal flu and colds…and coronavirus. There is also a lack of hydroalcoholic gels. For lack of a better option, it is necessary to rely on hand-washing, which is a backwards step in terms of hygiene practices. That’s why, there should be, from tomorrow, a national plan that fits with the pandemic, as declared by the WHO. Care, as set out in the current plan, is not tenable in the long-term because in the short-term we will no longer have the capacity to accept and regulate the flow of hospitalised patients, or even to screen them.


How did you set up your dedicated COVID-19 unit?


We opened our unit around 15 days ago in response to a call from level 1 HRCs. As with any new epidemic, there was a lot of apprehension at the outset, especially among caregivers and nurses. We anticipated that before opening the service. It’s what we saw with HIV in the 90s and with highly resistant bacteria in the 2010s. It’s a normal reaction. Once we had explained the issues and above all that we are capable of effectively protecting ourselves against transmission of the illness (in hospital) by using FFP2 masks in particular, everyone took part with extraordinary energy.


Is transmission really controlled in your unit?


Yes, in the hospital it is. Contaminated caregivers have been probably, in the main, in the community or hadn’t take sufficient precautions at the start of the epidemic by not wearing a mask when the patient had signs consistent with the illness (especially cough). Personally, I think I have more risk of catching the virus on public transport than in the hospital. We are working on a cohort of patients to determine the risk factors for infection specific to caregivers, to know precisely how much of a role is played by contamination outside the hospital, in meetings, or the non-application of precautions (wearing a mask or using hydroalcoholic gel).


It is certain that, in our infectious diseases service, there is a bias because we are used to protecting ourselves, so the risk is obviously and thankfully residual. What is dangerous is, for example, a patient hospitalised in orthopaedics for a hip fracture who coughs; we aren’t necessarily going to think about COVID-19, and in orthopaedics the policy outside theatre is to not wear a mask.


How anxious are you?


I am personally not afraid of being infected. I am, on the other hand, very preoccupied by the thought that the numbers are increasing exponentially; we are at the beginning of the epidemic, so that’s normal. But the question is: will we have the physical means (masks, hydroalcoholic gel…) and the people (who could work non-stop days, nights, the weekends…?) at a constant level and without additional help? If the epidemic lasts for 3 months, I think it will be very difficult.


Current health policy is to keep the epidemic at alert stage 2, flattening the curve to not saturate the health system, which may make the epidemic last longer. Hospitals in France have been in crisis for years; in January, healthcare professionals protested against the lack of healthcare personnel and to explain that the austerity policy, which would see hospital beds close and push outpatient care, was not viable. Today, we are reopening hospital beds and requisitioning them to hospitalise suspected coronavirus patients.

This morning, the regional health agencies asked us to cancel all scheduled non-urgent hospital admissions.


Doctors in Italy have had to make difficult ethical choices due to the lack of equipment (respirators, beds, etc). Will this happen in France?

We have discussed it among infectious disease specialists, and we think that it’s a question which will sadly arise when we have no more room for resuscitation, which is currently not the case. But COVID-19 patients with severe disease stay in hospital for a long time (around 3 to 6 weeks) so if the epidemic lasts, it may indeed happen. But this decision algorithm is sadly not rare in medicine. We decide not to resuscitate a patient when we know it will not save them. What is new is that this is a kind of illness for which we are not used to taking this type of decision.


In Italy, several doctors report that patients under 40 years old, without comorbidities, could also present with serious forms of COVID-19. Are we seeing the same thing in France?


Currently, a third of hospitalised patients in resuscitation in France don’t have risk factors, including some under 40 years of age. We don’t know why yet. There is probably a genetic factor to the illness. One hypothesis is that it causes an immune reconstitution inflammatory syndrome, which we see sometimes in infectious diseases like tuberculosis and HIV.


How do you explain there being fewer severe paediatric cases? Could children, in a second outbreak of the epidemic, be more susceptible?


There are currently two hypotheses. We know that children are exposed to a number of different coronaviruses; they could have therefore developed an immunity against this virus, and don’t develop the severe clinical form. The second hypothesis is that COVID-19 cannot attach itself to the respiratory epithelium in children. This immature epithelium has few if any receptors.


One could reasonably think that in the case of a second outbreak that children could still be protected. We know that the virus mutates relatively little, so the risk is probably small, even if it cannot be confirmed at this stage. We saw in Japan patients re-infected with coronavirus but it seems that there is nevertheless a partial immunity, contrary to what was said initially.


You will take part in a clinical trial in France for the treatment of COVID-19. Can you tell us more?


It is a large-scale clinical trial [with 3200 European patients, including 800 from France] conducted at Bichat hospital by Dr Yazdan Yazdanpanah, which will attempt to answer many questions. It will consist of four arms, testing the following treatments:

  • Remdesivir [GS-5734, Gilead], an antiviral that has already been tested on MERS-CoV. The first version was tested on SARS in 2003, but we have little data for SARS-CoV-2 because the illness has only been around for several months. The in vitro results were interesting; it could be effective against SARS-CoV-2.

  • Lopinavir/ritonavir [Kaletra, AbbVie]. It’s an old retroviral used against HIV. It’s a protease inhibitor which is said to be effective against sequences similar between SARS-CoV-2 and HIV. It could reduce the viral load. But the recent data showed, in vitro, that HIV, which is meant to be resistant to lopinavir, was paradoxically more sensitive than SARS-CoV2, calling into question its clinical effectiveness.

  • A combination of interferon beta and lopinavir/ritonavir.

  • A control arm of standard of care, with oxygen therapy, etc.

What message would you give to your colleagues?


When we are in stage 3, we should not see it as a nuisance. We will be able to take decisions that will allow general practitioners to be involved and manage outpatients, as these are mainly non-severe cases (80% of cases). And to properly care for these patients, it will be absolutely necessary to follow hygiene rules (masks, hand washing…) and monitor them well; in other words, see them again at 7 and 14 days to ensure that they don’t have complications of the illness.

No conflicts of interest or funding declared.


COVID-19 : quelle est la réalité du terrain ? Témoignage du Dr Benjamnin Davido, médecin infectiologue referent


Adapted from Medscape's French Edition.

  • uknewsdesk@medscape.net.

    Cite this: COVID-19: Advice From a French Doctor on the Frontline - Medscape - Mar 16, 2020.


 
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There's a range; some remain asymptomatic, while some develop mild to serious symptoms - haven't seen exact percentage on those, but am convinced that testing, testing, testing to ID these people and quarantine them is the biggest key to slowing this down, without having to shut the world completely down, although if every person in the country self-quarantined for 14 days, we'd be done with the outbreak.

We are undisciplined and spoiled country. This quarantine is the only method that could have helped but the problem is the discipline and nonchalance with which I see people behaving. I've dealt with contacts who actually don't want to be tested and are roaming free in the universe. And then we don't even have enough test kits to test them anyway.
My big fear is the lack of n95 masks because I'm convinced that regular surgical masks don't work with patients who might expose physicians to higher viral loads and are a bit sicker. So I am fearful.
When I tested a patient yesterday who was supposed to be in quarantine because she has been in prolonged contact with a coworker is currently in the hospital and youngish and hypoxic and called her to tell her to come and that we were ready for her, I found her to be in CVS shopping.
I think we're now beyond the point where a testing is going to help a whole hell of a lot.
If you are a positive then we know what to do with you but it doesn't mean you're going to listen. If you're a negative then it means you are currently negative and may not be next week and may behave like all is right with the world.
The testing is going to be too much too late. And there's no use pervasively focusing on blaming a political party or the CDC or the FDA regarding the screw-up because sometimes s*** just happens. Especially in a country who so obsessed with bureaucracy and bean counting and coding and feeding the monster rather than common sense, on the ground medical care. we're going to want all those physicians back who were pushed out or retired early because of this abusive dysfunctional system.
 
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We are undisciplined and spoiled country. This quarantine is the only method that could have helped but the problem is the discipline and nonchalance with which I see people behaving. I've dealt with contacts who actually don't want to be tested and are roaming free in the universe. And then we don't even have enough test kits to test them anyway.
My big fear is the lack of n95 masks because I'm convinced that regular surgical masks don't work with patients who might expose physicians to higher viral loads and are a bit sicker. So I am fearful.
When I tested a patient yesterday who was supposed to be in quarantine because she has been in prolonged contact with a coworker is currently in the hospital and young youngest and hypoxic and called her to tell her to come and that we were ready for her, I found her to be in CVS shopping.
These people should be imprisoned and refused medical care for their negligence.
 
It’s too early to discount the weather.

Iran is a very large county with many different climates. There is no real data to suggest where exactly the outbreaks are occurring and the associated weather.

Incident rates do appear lower in warmer climates. Including South Korea, where spread was more contained than anywhere else seen in the world.

Weather may actually become a factor as for influenza at some point (I think it will by April, but that's too late). It is unequivocally not a factor now, though. Please read my earlier detailed post on the weather from yesterday to understand that. If weather were a factor, how come NYC and Seattle have huge outbreaks, but other similar cities in the northern US, like Chicago, Denver and Detroit do not? And why does South Korea, which generally has a similar climate to Italy (probably a bit colder on average) have this under control, but Italy does not? Just because "South" is in a country's name doesn't mean it's warm - they had the winter Olympics there, you know...
 
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