ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Breaking news: Abbott Labs has informed the FDA that their rapid test for Covid-19 may have as much as a 15% failure rate in the field.

This was missed during testing because the failures accrue when the test swabs are packaged and transported, i.e. from the test site to the lab. Under test conditions, the delay between swab and analysis was considerably shorter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: czxqa
Breaking news: Abbott Labs has informed the FDA that their rapid test for Covid-19 may have as much as a 15% failure rate in the field.

This was missed during testing because the failures accrue when the test swabs are packaged and transported, i.e. from the test site to the lab. Under test conditions, the delay between swab and analysis was considerably shorter.
Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic tested 239 specimens known to contain the coronavirus using five of the most commonly used coronavirus tests, including the Abbott ID NOW. The ID NOW has generated widespread excitement because it can produce results in less than 15 minutes.

But the ID NOW only detected the virus in 85.2% of the samples, meaning it had a false-negative rate of 14.8 percent, according to Dr. Gary Procop, who heads COVID-19 testing at the Cleveland Clinic and led the study.

"So that means if you had 100 patients that were positive, 15% of those patients would be falsely called negative. They'd be told that they're negative for COVID when they're really positive," Procop told NPR in an interview. "That's not too good."

Procop says a test should be at least 95% reliable.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...bout-false-negatives-from-quick-covid-19-test
 
Honestly? I think it's less about some sort of phenomena and more about sample bias. Doctors are seeing a lot more patients moving from mild to moderate to severe hypoxemia than they normally would - and many more in a unit setting. So they're noticing things at a higher rate of occurrence than normal.

Bear in mind that absent this disease, you most often see patients presenting with severe hypoxemia (basically <75% O2 sat) in an emergent setting - and, my gut tells me, most often prior to arrival at the ED.

I did a quick poll of my EMS chat group and it turns out that everyone has seen patients with shockingly low O2 sats who are AOx3.

It also bears considering that your basic pulse oximeter is what you might call a guideline instrument, and isn't guaranteed to tell you exactly what the patient's dissolved oxygen level is.
Interesting take. Thanks for checking with the EMS group.

But it leaves the same question unanswered, really. Perhaps even more important now as there are so many of these types of patients (how common is that low sat/AOx3 patient pre-covid - more of a freak once in a while thing or fairly common). What exactly is going on and how can it be effectively treated.
 
FDA has approved at home test for Covid however this is not available in New York and New Jersey due to at home testing restrictions
 
i keep hearing this drug keeps proving effective. How fast can they produce it? and if the company balks because they want to keep supply low for monetary reasons could the war powers act be used to force them to produce it?

Apparently Gilead already started ramping up doses for this in the millions, there was an article weeks ago about it. Been a lot of mixed info on this, and they changed the trial from 2400 to 6000, which may indicate results so far may have been a little foggy. Don’t think this is going to be a slam dunk, probably something like works 2/3 of the time. There has been a lot of positive anecdotal feedback though, but there was for chloroquine too. We’ll know in 1-2 weeks I guess.
 
New stay at home test kits. Not sure how many people would be able to swab their own nasal passage if it has to go up as far as they have been doing currently. Will it be accurate if you don’t. If the saliva test could be done as a stay at home test that would be good.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/home-covid-19-test-approved/index.html

I can't see people sticking a swab into their own nasal passage deep enough, which will lead to a ton of false negatives. Also, if you have to send this to a lab, you are probably looking at several days (even with express shipping) before you see results. I'm not sure how beneficial this will be.

Apparently you don't have to insert the swab into the sinuses. You only swab your nostril.

https://www.pixel.labcorp.com/at-home-test-kits/covid-19-test
 
I don't know if Redfield is correct in his assessment or not. But he has proven to be so incompetent during this crisis, it is hard to give credence to any of his comments.

I know CDC bungled its effort to produce test kits for the U.S., but I'm not sure you can blame that on Redfield.What else has he done wrong?
 
I know CDC bungled its effort to produce test kits for the U.S., but I'm not sure you can blame that on Redfield.What else has he done wrong?
Obviously the test kit fiasco is the biggest screw up at the CDC, followed closely by the failure to implement any type of surveillance program as promised in February, and then a whole host of lesser screw ups. Is Redfield personally responsible for the onset of these failures. Probably not. But he is the head of the CDC, and instead of responding to the failures as a leader and rectifying the issues, he responded with a "deer in the headlights" reaction. His Congressional testimony, where he couldn't even answer the question of who was responsible for testing, was especially telling. We need a strong leader in the critical role at the CDC, and instead we have an impotent bungler.
 
Nothing new as to what might happen in the colder months but CDC director on winter months and second wave possibly being worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics/second-coronavirus-cdc-director-robert-redfield/index.html
In what scenario could a second wave be worse? We will have better testing, more testing, and most likely working therapies. The guy gives no reasoning for how or why it could be worse other than overlapping with flu season. Last I checked we are in flu season now.
 
In what scenario could a second wave be worse? We will have better testing, more testing, and most likely working therapies. The guy gives no reasoning for how or why it could be worse other than overlapping with flu season. Last I checked we are in flu season now.

More / better testing does not necessarily inhibit disease transmission - especially for a virus that's transmitted by asymptomatic patients.

Working therapies, likewise, have no effect on transmission rate, but would serve to lower the fatality rate. Still, those patients who are sick enough to warrant therapeutic treatment would quite likely also require significant medical intervention - and would also likely have infected others.

This thing becomes a non-factor when we have a vaccine. Until then, it's not going to be business as usual.
 
In what scenario could a second wave be worse? We will have better testing, more testing, and most likely working therapies. The guy gives no reasoning for how or why it could be worse other than overlapping with flu season. Last I checked we are in flu season now.
Well the duration will be for the full cold weather season as opposed to the tail end. Although I do think it was seeding here probably earlier than may have been noticeable. Also if social distancing is eased to get back to some normalcy that's more opportunity for spread as well. The wearing of masks, still some social distancing being in place, public awareness of it, more testing and maybe some potential treatments can counterbalance those factors but how much each side contributes to the potential outcomes I don't know. I wouldn't say for sure it's going to be worse but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either.
 
In what scenario could a second wave be worse? We will have better testing, more testing, and most likely working therapies. The guy gives no reasoning for how or why it could be worse other than overlapping with flu season. Last I checked we are in flu season now.
We are at the tail end of flu season, certainly past the peak.

But your other points do have merit imo.
 
More / better testing does not necessarily inhibit disease transmission - especially for a virus that's transmitted by asymptomatic patients.

Working therapies, likewise, have no effect on transmission rate, but would serve to lower the fatality rate. Still, those patients who are sick enough to warrant therapeutic treatment would quite likely also require significant medical intervention - and would also likely have infected others.

This thing becomes a non-factor when we have a vaccine. Until then, it's not going to be business as usual.
OK but for this to be "worse" it has to hospitalize more people and or kill more people. Better testing does inhibit transmission because it's required for contact tracing/quarantining/self-isolation. You can't do those things which slow Covid unless you first know you have Covid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
Well the duration will be for the full cold weather season as opposed to the tail end. Although I do think it was seeding here probably earlier than may have been noticeable. Also if social distancing is eased to get back to some normalcy that's more opportunity for spread as well. The wearing of masks, still some social distancing being in place, public awareness of it, more testing and maybe some potential treatments can counterbalance those factors but how much each side contributes to the potential outcomes I don't know. I wouldn't say for sure it's going to be worse but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either.
I just don't get it. We will have more tools and an informed population that is normalizing wearing masks and better hygiene. Not to mention 6 more months of other ways we will progress and prepare. Unless there's some terrible mutation that increases CFR or transmissibility I don't see how it's possible for wave 2 to be worse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
OK but for this to be "worse" it has to hospitalize more people and or kill more people. Better testing does inhibit transmission because it's required for contact tracing/quarantining/self-isolation. You can't do those things which slow Covid unless you first know you have Covid.

Everybody talks about contact tracing.

It's very difficult when you have a disease that has an incubation period of up to two weeks, with asymptomatic contagion.

Basically, you'd have to test everyone, every week. And I don't see that happening.

Like I said, absent a vaccine, things are gonna be f*cked up to some degree.
 
I just don't get it. We will have more tools and an informed population that is normalizing wearing masks and better hygiene. Not to mention 6 more months of other ways we will progress and prepare. Unless there's some terrible mutation that increases CFR or transmissibility I don't see how it's possible for wave 2 to be worse.
I agree with this, in general, as there's no doubt our testing/tracing/quarantining/hygiene/mask wearing will be better than the 0.0 we essentially had in late Feb/early March when this truly took off - it might not be what I'd like to see or what South Korea/Taiwan have, but it'll be a lot better.

Another possible plus is if we find out that 10-20% of the population has already been infected, which is quite possible based on early returns from antibody testing some populations (and the high rates of infection on ships and in prisons), meaning most/all would have immunity (at least for awhile) and would no longer be contagious, removing 10-20% of the targets for transmission, which will at least moderately slow down the rate - and if we're clever, we'll have many more of those people with antibodies in high contact jobs, further reducing transmission.

It's also unlikely that the virus is going to change much (we already know its mutation rate is quite slow) according to most of the virologists, which is why a vaccine would hopefully work for years, instead of only partially working and needing to be retooled for a "new" viral threat every year, like we have with influenza.

And the big, huge unknown wild card is whether we will truly have an antibody therapy by the end of summer (or sooner for convalescent therapy) that works to at least prevent most serious illnesses and deaths (I think convalescent plasma will work for serious cases, but is hard to scale for millions) and I think the engineered antibody approach will do that and it can be scaled for millions by the end of the year. I also think we'll have massive antibody testing by the end of summer (if not sooner), so people will know if they've already been infected and are very likely immune.

I'm on the very conservative side of exposure risk right now, with a wife and son who are both asthmatic and immunocompromised, so I'm not willing to risk getting COVID if there's no high confidence treatment available, but I'm willing to risk getting it if there is and I imagine many think that way. There's certainly no guarantee right now that any of the antibody approaches will work as a high confidence treatment and/or a preventative, but very preliminary results (10-20 people only, so very preliminary) with convalescent plasma are promising (and it's worked for several other diseases in the past) and the engineered antibody approach worked pretty well for Ebola.

I also think we'll have a commercial vaccine by February - I truly think Pharma is going to come through here, but that's just a guess. And we also might see some other drugs that work at least somewhat (like remdesivir and dozens of others being tested) as treatments, not just the antibody approaches.
 
Nice primer on diagnostic tests, including sensitivity (proportion of people with disease who will have a positive result) and specificity (proportion of people without the disease who will have a negative result), if we're talking about a "disease" test like the viral PCR test.

The PCR tests for the coronavirus (and influenza) have always had sensitivity problems, with 20+% of those with the disease testing negative for it (false negatives), which is a major issue. Doctors hate false negatives with a disease test as it's horrible to tell someone they're fine and they're not - and for infectious diseases it's even worse, as they're told they're fine, when they're not and in the case of COVID can go out and infect others. Would much prefer false positives than false negatives, as false positives simply are told they have the disease, but don't actually and the outcome is simply unnecessary quarantine and monitoring, which isn't that bad really.

The other element is if a test is for something "good" like antibodies. For the antibody test, it's the opposite. False negatives are not a big deal, as that simply means people think they don't have antibodies when they do, so they likely behave more conservatively. Whereas false positives, which we're seeing a lot of with many of these tests, are very bad, as that tells someone they have the antibodies when they actually don't, which could cause them to think they're immune/not contagious resulting in them not taking precautions any more, with a much greater risk of infection (and becoming contagious).

Hope this helps...the graphic below is from the link:


k8NAYas.png


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1651-2227.2006.00180.x
 
Latest (4/17) projections are out from the U of Washington/IHME; bulleted highlights and graphics below.
  • The model shows a dip in projected US deaths vs. the 4/13 run, from 68.8K to 60.3K.
  • The progression of total projected US deaths for each model run is as follows: from 93K on 4/1 to 82K on 4/5 to 60K on 4/7 to 69K on 4/13 and now back down to 60K on 4/17.
  • The projected NY deaths jumped significantly from the 14.5K in the 4/13 run to 21.8K on 4/17, presumably due to NY now counting deaths differently
  • Projected NJ deaths also jumped significantly from 4.4K in the 4/13 run to 6.9K on 4/17 (although it was 9.6K on 4/5).
  • The fact that the US projected deaths dropped by 8.5k while NY/NJ went up by 9.7K means the rest of thie US projection went down by 18.2K, which is significant.
  • I'm starting to doubt that my 40-50K prediction for US deaths from 4/5, based mostly on my comparison of the US death rates vs. Italy's death rates and the math of the two curves, will be correct, but would still rather see that than 60K+.
Keep in mind that these projections are for the "first wave" of the outbreak and they assume that we will continue current social distancing practices and will start easing back on those soon, but only in conjunction with an improved containment infrastructure of testing, contact tracing and quarantining, as per the excerpt below from their model page.

Social distancing policies, which can range from restrictions on large gatherings to strict stay-at-home orders and closure of all non-essential businesses, have been used as a mechanism to substantially reduce the spread – and thus the immediate toll – of COVID-19. We are now entering the phase of the epidemic when government officials are considering when certain types of distancing policies may be eased. With today’s release, we provide initial estimates that can serve as an input to such considerations in the US.

These estimates assume that when social distancing policies will be eased, such actions will occur in conjunction with public health containment strategies. Such measures include widespread testing, contact tracing, and isolation of new cases to minimize the risk of resurgence while maintaining at least some social distancing policies to reduce the risk of large-scale transmission (e.g., bans on mass gatherings).



o42x4bO.png


7PLlTjL.png


BGBGGNl.png


https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

Latest (4/21) projections are out from the U of Washington/IHME; bulleted highlights and graphics below.
  • The model shows a bump back up in projected US deaths vs. the 4/17 run, i.e., from 60.3K on 4/17 to 66.0K on 4/21.
  • The progression of total projected US deaths for each model run is as follows: from 93K on 4/1 to 82K on 4/5 to 60K on 4/7 to 69K on 4/13 to 60.3K on 4/17 and now back up to 66.0K on 4/21.
  • The projected NY deaths jumped significantly from the 14.5K in the 4/13 run to 21.8K on 4/17, to 23.7K on 4/21, due to NY now counting many more "presumed" COVID deaths without actual positive viral tests (mostly in hospitals with some in nursing homes), as per an interview with Dr. Murray tonight (and the update notes).
  • Projected NJ deaths also jumped a bit from 4.4K in the 4/13 run to 6.9K on 4/17 to 7.1K on 4/21 (although it was 9.6K on 4/5).
  • The US projected deaths jumped by 5.7K, partly due to NY/NJ jumping by 2.1K and partly because the rest of the US projection went up by 3.6K.
  • I'm now certain that my 40-50K prediction for US deaths from 4/5, based mostly on my comparison of the US death rates vs. Italy's death rates and the math of the two curves, will be incorrect and that more than 60K is now nearly certain, unfortunately.
Keep in mind that these projections are for the "first wave" of the outbreak, through about August and they assume that we will continue current social distancing practices and will start easing back on those soon, but only in conjunction with an improved containment infrastructure of testing, contact tracing and quarantining, as per the excerpt below from their model page. The fact that some states are now looking to ease back sooner will likely mean that deaths in those states will end up higher than modeled - how many more is the big question.

Social distancing policies, which can range from restrictions on large gatherings to strict stay-at-home orders and closure of all non-essential businesses, have been used as a mechanism to substantially reduce the spread – and thus the immediate toll – of COVID-19. We are now entering the phase of the epidemic when government officials are considering when certain types of distancing policies may be eased. With today’s release, we provide initial estimates that can serve as an input to such considerations in the US.

These estimates assume that when social distancing policies will be eased, such actions will occur in conjunction with public health containment strategies. Such measures include widespread testing, contact tracing, and isolation of new cases to minimize the risk of resurgence while maintaining at least some social distancing policies to reduce the risk of large-scale transmission (e.g., bans on mass gatherings).

http://www.healthdata.org/covid

zDCbsAl.png


PTGeF5Y.png


RLgIrAP.png
 
Horrible scene in the port city of Guayaquil, Ecuador, the epicenter of the pandemic in South America. The official death toll is about 500, but this report from the Times estimates the dead in "thousands" with footage of mass graves and terrible heartache. There has been some discussion around this virus being seasonal and slowing down in the heat and humidity, but outbreaks like this show just how fast and deadly outbreaks can be in warm, humid places like Guayaquil.

My guess is that there may be some dependence on the weather, but that factors like population density and intervening in outbreaks before they become very bad are far more important, especially with a novel virus never seen before on Earth, with a very high transmission rate. It's also quite possible that poor countries like Ecuador and many others are seeing far worse outbreaks than anyone really knows, making me fear for countries like India, Bangladesh and several countries in Africa and South America that are densely populated with a high poverty level and substandard health care systems.

 
Horrible scene in the port city of Guayaquil, Ecuador, the epicenter of the pandemic in South America. The official death toll is about 500, but this report from the Times estimates the dead in "thousands" with footage of mass graves and terrible heartache. There has been some discussion around this virus being seasonal and slowing down in the heat and humidity, but outbreaks like this show just how fast and deadly outbreaks can be in warm, humid places like Guayaquil.

My guess is that there may be some dependence on the weather, but that factors like population density and intervening in outbreaks before they become very bad are far more important, especially with a novel virus never seen before on Earth, with a very high transmission rate. It's also quite possible that poor countries like Ecuador and many others are seeing far worse outbreaks than anyone really knows, making me fear for countries like India, Bangladesh and several countries in Africa and South America that are densely populated with a high poverty level and substandard health care systems.


NJ seems to be in worse condition
 
Everybody talks about contact tracing.

It's very difficult when you have a disease that has an incubation period of up to two weeks, with asymptomatic contagion.

Basically, you'd have to test everyone, every week. And I don't see that happening.

Like I said, absent a vaccine, things are gonna be f*cked up to some degree.
Good article here about Singapore and their new 2nd wave of cases. Also discusses how South Korea quickly abandoned contact tracing as ineffective and shifted to a community testing strategy.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...ealth-asia-pacific/singapore-cautionary-tale/
 
New cases in NJ still seem to be rising with actual #'s consistently higher than NY for the past week or so. While we seem to have better trends on the back end we need to do better on the front end. I was thinking that certain parts of the state might be able to open earlier than others but if this is truly increasing in the central and southern parts of the state then the areas I was thinking about are less viable for early opening.
 
New cases in NJ still seem to be rising with actual #'s consistently higher than NY for the past week or so. While we seem to have better trends on the back end we need to do better on the front end. I was thinking that certain parts of the state might be able to open earlier than others but if this is truly increasing in the central and southern parts of the state then the areas I was thinking about are less viable for early opening.

NJ had its worst day yesterday for CV deaths, at 379.

Central Jersey is now the new North Jersey.

The U.S., yesterday, had its highest "new case" number, by a considerable amount. NJ's "new case" number yesterday ranks 6th, overall.
 
Parenthetically, I'm starting to feel like transfusion of packed red cells may be an effective late-stage therapy for patients presenting with Covid pneumonia.
 
NJ had its worst day yesterday for CV deaths, at 379.

Central Jersey is now the new North Jersey.

The U.S., yesterday, had its highest "new case" number, by a considerable amount. NJ's "new case" number yesterday ranks 6th, overall.
Out of those 379 deaths about 270 of them were long term care residents. LTC facilities are being hit hard right now.
 
Yes there is a lot of focus on what is going on in "nursing homes". This seems like a term that most facilities avoid using these days and when I started looking at required individual facility reporting in NJ, I am wondering what is covered and what is not.

For instance, Seabrook in Tinton Falls, which I am very familiar with, is mostly an independent living facility although they do have an assisted living building with a floor dedicated to long term care. They are building out a memory care floor as well. I would not expect them to count independent living residents, even though they are currently not allowed to leave their apartments due to their risk profile, but does the general nursing home category cover all of the rest (assisted, long-term care and memory care) for state reporting purposes? I did not see Seabrook mentioned at all in the reporting earlier this week. I also know that one other facility where another relative resides grossly under reported their situation based on what they are communicating to the families.

The other thing is that state reporting seems to focus on residents infected and related deaths but not necessarily employees who have been infected, which can be a significant number as well.
 
The other thing is that state reporting seems to focus on residents infected and related deaths but not necessarily employees who have been infected, which can be a significant number as well.
I think statistical breakdowns of all sorts would be beneficial.

Such as the % of deaths being from nursing homes, but also as you note what % of the employees are getting it, and what % of those people, are mild or asymptomatic. How in danger are employees at those facilities?

In addition, an age breakdown of the overall population, what % are mild or less, I think would be a very interesting.

What we definitely seem to be seeing right now is, even it the measures we have implemented is Nursing homes are not being protected.
 
Everybody talks about contact tracing.

It's very difficult when you have a disease that has an incubation period of up to two weeks, with asymptomatic contagion.

Basically, you'd have to test everyone, every week. And I don't see that happening.

Like I said, absent a vaccine, things are gonna be f*cked up to some degree.

I agree that vaccine is the panacea. But absent a vaccine, we can still get back to "somewhat" normal if we can figure out how to at least stave off or lessen the deaths. IMHO, the path to that is the following:

- Remdesivir working for mild to moderate patients + early self detection using oxygen meters.
- IL-6 antagonists and/or Plasma (if they work) may be used for severe patients.

If the number of deaths can be significantly reduced, then things will go back to "normal".
 
I agree that vaccine is the panacea. But absent a vaccine, we can still get back to "somewhat" normal if we can figure out how to at least stave off or lessen the deaths. IMHO, the path to that is the following:

- Remdesivir working for mild to moderate patients + early self detection using oxygen meters.
- IL-6 antagonists and/or Plasma (if they work) may be used for severe patients.

If the number of deaths can be significantly reduced, then things will go back to "normal".

Certainly treatments to reduce the number of deaths is necessary. But additionally we would want treatments to reduce hospitalizations and shorten hospital stays, as well as reduce complications.

And all these treatments would also have to work for the elderly and at-risk populations. I think people will be more willing to take the risk of getting sick if they know that it won't kill them, they won't be in the hospital for 3 weeks, and they aren't going to infect and kill grandma.
 
Certainly treatments to reduce the number of deaths is necessary. But additionally we would want treatments to reduce hospitalizations and shorten hospital stays, as well as reduce complications.

And all these treatments would also have to work for the elderly and at-risk populations. I think people will be more willing to take the risk of getting sick if they know that it won't kill them, they won't be in the hospital for 3 weeks, and they aren't going to infect and kill grandma.

Agree. But the early detection applies to grandma too. Also, when I say moderate, I'm really talking about hospitalized patients that may or may not yet be on a ventilator. Serious, for me means your on deaths bed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT