COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

[bac2therac]

Unclear. In March, before the shutdown, it was already noticeable that the virus was having an effect on bars and restaurants by me; and that was when many people, myself included, were still taking little to no precautions.

It is now clear that people will go to great lengths to avoid getting sick — little risk tolerance. Without any restrictions, you’d still have cautious consumers opting to eat at home rather than sit in a crowded room, and of course a dearth of tourists.

One might even make the case that if total shut downs result in government subsidies, and a steeper return to normalcy on the other side of the shut down, then doing no business at all is far better than doing some business without subsidies in a cautious environment.

Ben Bernanke pretty much said this in March (rush out of lockdown before solving the health crisis and you’ll see the economy struggle), but we were in a big hurry to live in a weird hybrid ok / not-ok world.

Beachescand boardwalks are quite normal with no masks. Its as if a pandemic doesnt exist. It amazing what happens when people don't live in a fear induced panic under their beds

Ditto for young people at colleges..how dare they congregate and party..its ruining the narrative WE HAVE to create

 

[RU-05]

Thanks for posting...more evidence that sutdowns are worse than openings

It's certainly evidence of the negative effects of shutdowns, not necessarily that they are worse then openings.

How it relates to your point of how the MSM does not report on such matters is that you were wrong. Same as the article above.

He is a hero because he is calling out hypocrisy..same as Tucker..mask mandate calls lmfao

You have your hero bar set incredibly low.

 

[RU-05]

Unclear. In March, before the shutdown, it was already noticeable that the virus was having an effect on bars and restaurants by me; and that was when many people, myself included, were still taking little to no precautions.

It is now clear that people will go to great lengths to avoid getting sick — little risk tolerance. Without any restrictions, you’d still have cautious consumers opting to eat at home rather than sit in a crowded room, and of course a dearth of tourists.

One might even make the case that if total shut downs result in government subsidies, and a steeper return to normalcy on the other side of the shut down, then doing no business at all is far better than doing some business without subsidies in a cautious environment.

Ben Bernanke pretty much said this in March (rush out of lockdown before solving the health crisis and you’ll see the economy struggle), but we were in a big hurry to live in a weird hybrid ok / not-ok world.

Look no further then the Airline industry, you can fly if you want, but not many people do.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Beachescand boardwalks are quite normal with no masks. Its as if a pandemic doesnt exist. It amazing what happens when people don't live in a fear induced panic under their beds

Ditto for young people at colleges..how dare they congregate and party..its ruining the narrative WE HAVE to create

I’ve been to indoor restaurants this summer, still go to a bar once a week or so (though opt for ones with open windows), and try to help the places I frequented before the crisis.

I’m relatively young and relatively healthy, and don’t have parents or kids at home with me (though kids appear to do mostly fine, I’m sure the thought of complication with a novel disease still scares many ) my risk tolerance is higher.

I can’t fault those who are more hesitant — and if an indoor bar or restaurant was slammed, there is no way I’d eat in there.

I read an article about restaurant closures in Miami — the owners emphasized: no tourists, people don’t want to eat near strangers. Sitting in an air-conditioned restaurant is a lot different than sitting on the beach.

 

[RU-05]

Beachescand boardwalks are quite normal with no masks. Its as if a pandemic doesnt exist. It amazing what happens when people don't live in a fear induced panic under their beds

Ditto for young people at colleges..how dare they congregate and party..its ruining the narrative WE HAVE to create

Oh the hyperbole.....

 

[rutgersdave]

Oh the hyperbole.....

So many angry posters on the board. I want the gyms to open but I can wait.

 

[RU-05]

So many angry posters on the board. I want the gyms to open but I can wait.

I agree gyms should be open with some restrictions, and that's a good discussion to be had.

But when hypocritical posters bitch about the hypocritical media? Ruins the discussion.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

I agree gyms should be open with some restrictions, and that's a good discussion to be had.

But when hypocritical posters bitch about the hypocritical media? Ruins the discussion.

There are a few posters here who frame the mask-wearers as sheep to a narrative of fear.

However, I would argue that the version of events these posters are pushing (mask mandates are a power grab, the virus is a master narrative filling the culture with fear, etc) is a far more controlling narrative, that has divorced them from rational action.

The risk / reward proposition for masks is extremely inviting: on the downside, if masks are ineffective, my risk looks about the same as if I’m not wearing a mask at all—with the added inconvenience of having it on. On the upside, I’m protecting myself and others from illness, and instilling confidence in those around me, facilitating commerce.

I would love to hear the anti-mask argument. Actual authoritarian states were banning masks prior to Covid (and in some cases during the epidemic) because they interfere with surveillance, yet I’m supposed to believe that wearing a mask risks surrendering my freedom to the government? How is it different than a seat belt or speed limit?

I find that the “don’t trust anything” crowd on here is actually enslaved by this “anything the msm says is a lie” narrative to the point that they can no longer be called rational actors. They are generally bad for public health and bad for the economy.

 

[Ronnie_B]

I find that the “don’t trust anything” crowd on here is actually enslaved by this “anything the msm says is a lie” narrative to the point that they can no longer be called rational actors. They are generally bad for public health and bad for the economy.

Oh FFS, are we going to pretend all is well and fair with MSM? I mean com'on, they're a mess and a big reason we're divided among ourselves because when we're mad and scared, that's money in their pockets.

 

[RU-05]

There are a few posters here who frame the mask-wearers as sheep to a narrative of fear.

However, I would argue that the version of events these posters are pushing (mask mandates are a power grab, the virus is a master narrative filling the culture with fear, etc) is a far more controlling narrative, that has divorced them from rational action.

The risk / reward proposition for masks is extremely inviting: on the downside, if masks are ineffective, my risk looks about the same as if I’m not wearing a mask at all—with the added inconvenience of having it on. On the upside, I’m protecting myself and others from illness, and instilling confidence in those around me, facilitating commerce.

I would love to hear the anti-mask argument. Actual authoritarian states were banning masks prior to Covid (and in some cases during the epidemic) because they interfere with surveillance, yet I’m supposed to believe that wearing a mask risks surrendering my freedom to the government? How is it different than a seat belt or speed limit?

I find that the “don’t trust anything” crowd on here is actually enslaved by this “anything the msm says is a lie” narrative to the point that they can no longer be called rational actors. They are generally bad for public health and bad for the economy.

Sorry for being too chummy here, but great post.

End of the day, I'd just like to see good solid honest discussion. Too many do not argue in good faith.

 

[RUJohnny]

288 new cases and 3 new deaths reported, 2 were not in the month of August. The jig is up, Murph.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Oh FFS, are we going to pretend all is well and fair with MSM? I mean com'on, they're a mess and a big reason we're divided among ourselves because when we're mad and scared, that's money in their pockets.

The guy on twitter who says not to wear a mask is in it for altruism? When you hear “alternative facts” or any organization supposedly pushing up against the MSM, there is only political and / or financial profit behind its views. Have you seen how Alex Jones lives? And tell me the logic in the transactions these outlets sell? (Give me the case for why I should walk into the store without a mask).

We digest information, and it informs our choices, but at the end of the day, we have risk, reward and friction. I look at masks, the two sides of the issue, and can’t find a compelling argument for why I should be tossing my mask in the garbage.

 

[RU-05]

Oh FFS, are we going to pretend all is well and fair with MSM? I mean com'on, they're a mess and a big reason we're divided among ourselves because when we're mad and scared, that's money in their pockets.

I think those that are on the right like to paint any article they don't agree with as "MSM". They also will ignore articles from the "MSM" which don't fit their narrative. See my discussion with BAC above.

Now can we agree that MSNBC sucks? Sure, but let's also agree that FOX sucks too.(I do like Brett Baier).

 

[Ronnie_B]

The guy on twitter who says not to wear a mask is in it for altruism? When you hear “alternative facts” or any organization supposedly pushing up against the MSM, there is only political and / or financial profit behind its views. Have you seen how Alex Jones lives? And tell me the logic in the transactions these outlets sell? (Give me the case for why I should walk into the store without a mask).

We digest information, and it informs our choices, but at the end of the day, we have risk, reward and friction. I look at masks, the two sides of the issue, and can’t find a compelling argument for why I should be tossing my mask in the garbage.

Alex Jones is a fringe moron, no one takes him seriously and those who do are a very small segment of society, and I think people do wear there masks, the other day I walked into a Wawa and one guy didn't have it on and it hit me how this was the only time I've seen that in quite some time, I would say 99.9% of people in my area wear it, and that includes those who think its a waste of time, the "people not wearing masks" narrative I wonder if is being over-hyped. Now when I was in Maine it was different, some didn't, but the majority did.

 

[Ronnie_B]

I think those that are on the right like to paint any article they don't agree with as "MSM". They also will ignore articles from the "MSM" which don't fit their narrative. See my discussion with BAC above.

Now can we agree that MSNBC sucks? Sure, but let's also agree that FOX sucks too.(I do like Brett Baier).

My point with Barnaby is there is a reason for this distrust, that said you earlier said how cable news is having negative impact and I couldn't agree with you more, they're all terrible, there was a time when CNN and MSNBC were unbiased to a point that was bearable, but now all three are agenda driven as are most journalists from both sides.

If Tim Russert could see what we have to watch today, he would be turning in his grave.

 

[RU-05]

the other day I walked into a Wawa and one guy didn't have it on and it hit me how this was the only time I've seen that in quite some time, I would say 99.9% of people in my area wear it, and that includes those who think its a waste of time, the "people not wearing masks" narrative I wonder if is being over-hyped. Now when I was in Maine it was different, some didn't, but the majority did.

Where I work, when I see someone without a mask it absolutely sticks out like a sore thumb. So if we get 400 customers in the store on a given day, and 4 walk in without a mask, I certainly notice those people, but 99% are adhering.

In other areas of the states, or other states I do not know, but I do feel a big reason our #'s in NJ have stayed low is because of masks.

 

[RU-05]

My point with Barnaby is there is a reason for this distrust, that said you earlier said how cable news is having negative impact and I couldn't agree with you more, they're all terrible, there was a time when CNN and MSNBC were unbiased to a point that was bearable, but now all three are agenda driven as are most journalists from both sides.

If Tim Russert could see what we have to watch today, he would be turning in his grave.

Having hoped into the stock market in March, I've been watching CNBC almost exclusively and I think that is a great place to get my news. They talk covid because it relates to the market, they talk some politics, they talk a bit about the protests, but everything is viewed through the lens of business and the markets, so there is not a heavy influence of political leanings. Granted there is a little, but I watch a couple minutes of regular cable news and I get disgusted. It's terrible and like I said I think it has a very negative effect on the country.

 

[RU-05]

Anyways, back to some good old fashioned graph watching.

Cases in the "2nd wave" peaked just about a month ago. 7DMA high was 69,330 on July 25th. It was 43,847 as of yesterday.

Deaths peaked in early August, with high 7dma of 1177 on Aug 4th. 7dma as of yesterday at 1002.

Nationwide we don't see a tight adherence to the 3 week lag rule, but I think that is because we see some states rising while others are falling.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Alex Jones is a fringe moron, no one takes him seriously and those who do are a very small segment of society, and I think people do wear there masks, the other day I walked into a Wawa and one guy didn't have it on and it hit me how this was the only time I've seen that in quite some time, I would say 99.9% of people in my area wear it, and that includes those who think its a waste of time, the "people not wearing masks" narrative I wonder if is being over-hyped. Now when I was in Maine it was different, some didn't, but the majority did.

A convenience store owner wasn't wearing a mask two weeks ago
She's around 40

But she has a sign on the door saying Customers must Wear Masks

 

[RU-05]

Things to look for in the upcoming months.

1)What happens in states where schools are open?

2)Is the 20% herd immunity a thing?

3)What happens when the real cold and flu season opens up?

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

My point with Barnaby is there is a reason for this distrust, that said you earlier said how cable news is having negative impact and I couldn't agree with you more, they're all terrible, there was a time when CNN and MSNBC were unbiased to a point that was bearable, but now all three are agenda driven as are most journalists from both sides.

If Tim Russert could see what we have to watch today, he would be turning in his grave.

I have no incentive to defend cable news channels, I don’t really watch any of them (except CNBC) unless there’s some big event happening live.

If you’re constantly clashing with ‘virus narratives,’ distrust of the media is probably an excuse or cover for “my political opponents hold certain views, and I don’t want to be in their camp.”

Coronavirus exists, coming down with a bad case is awful, and there’s no silver bullet for its treatment, so we should do our best to reduce transmission. We didn’t have appetite to shelter any longer; masks seem like our next best option to de-risk while living somewhat normally; and carry little downside.

Anyone who disagrees with that reasonable assessment, needs to reflect on how they arrived at their own positions, not at the media’s narratives.

 

[RU848789]

There are a few posters here who frame the mask-wearers as sheep to a narrative of fear.

However, I would argue that the version of events these posters are pushing (mask mandates are a power grab, the virus is a master narrative filling the culture with fear, etc) is a far more controlling narrative, that has divorced them from rational action.

The risk / reward proposition for masks is extremely inviting: on the downside, if masks are ineffective, my risk looks about the same as if I’m not wearing a mask at all—with the added inconvenience of having it on. On the upside, I’m protecting myself and others from illness, and instilling confidence in those around me, facilitating commerce.

I would love to hear the anti-mask argument. Actual authoritarian states were banning masks prior to Covid (and in some cases during the epidemic) because they interfere with surveillance, yet I’m supposed to believe that wearing a mask risks surrendering my freedom to the government? How is it different than a seat belt or speed limit?

I find that the “don’t trust anything” crowd on here is actually enslaved by this “anything the msm says is a lie” narrative to the point that they can no longer be called rational actors. They are generally bad for public health and bad for the economy.

One of the best posts in this thread. People who are "against" masks are simply incapable of understanding science or risk/reward analysis. I've been trying hard to not engage with the anti-science crowd, as it's simply not productive, and ends up derailing the thread, but once in awhile these things need to be said.

 

[RU85inFla]

Gotta love the portion of the population that is the mask hating and the virus is not real crowd. I just went to the mall with my wife to pick up a present for a very sick student of hers. I was shocked by how many stores are shut down and more shocked by how few people were there.

I figured the folks that think Covid is a myth and the economy needs to start up would be out there spending. I guess not. Probably hiding under the bed.

 

[RU-05]

Australia has gotten their outbreak under control. 7dma for cases peaked on Aug 5th at 552 cases. Down to 224 as of yesterday.

So the shutdown clearly has worked in terms of getting the #'s back down(still some ways to go yet) but I guess you could ask was it worth it?

I think you have to ask:

1)When do they lift those restrictions imposed on the onset of this most recent outbreak.

& the hypothetical

2)What would it have looked like had they let the virus run?

Now if the answer to the 2nd question is: It would have gotten bad enough that they would have had to implement restrictions at a later date then yes implementing restrictions now was certainly worth it.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Gotta love the portion of the population that is the mask hating and the virus is not real crowd. I just went to the mall with my wife to pick up a present for a very Dick student of hers. I was shocked by how many stores are shut down and more shocked by how few people were there.

I figured the folks that think Covid is a myth and the economy needs to start up would be out there spending. I guess not. Probably hiding under the bed.

Same goes for vaccines. Many virus-skeptics said we should be taking risks to save the economy for our grandchildren; many of the same folks think a vaccine is part of big pharma / bill gates plot for domination, and won’t take it. Meanwhile widespread adoption of the vaccine is what’s best for the economy.

 

[bac2therac]

There are a few posters here who frame the mask-wearers as sheep to a narrative of fear.

However, I would argue that the version of events these posters are pushing (mask mandates are a power grab, the virus is a master narrative filling the culture with fear, etc) is a far more controlling narrative, that has divorced them from rational action.

The risk / reward proposition for masks is extremely inviting: on the downside, if masks are ineffective, my risk looks about the same as if I’m not wearing a mask at all—with the added inconvenience of having it on. On the upside, I’m protecting myself and others from illness, and instilling confidence in those around me, facilitating commerce.

I would love to hear the anti-mask argument. Actual authoritarian states were banning masks prior to Covid (and in some cases during the epidemic) because they interfere with surveillance, yet I’m supposed to believe that wearing a mask risks surrendering my freedom to the government? How is it different than a seat belt or speed limit?

I find that the “don’t trust anything” crowd on here is actually enslaved by this “anything the msm says is a lie” narrative to the point that they can no longer be called rational actors. They are generally bad for public health and bad for the economy.

Unfortunately the msm brought this on itself for lying for 4 years

 

[bac2therac]

Don’t forget our President appeared on his show (after the whole Sandy Hook fiasco); so yes he’s a nut, but one side of the political aisle isn’t afraid to get warm and fuzzy with his views and viewers — and that infects the discourse.

I don’t believe Trump believes Jones, but I believe he’s willing to say things to satisfy that audience, and I believe the non-Alex Jones audience of Trump supporters will then take weird positions to try to defend / rationalize Trump’s crazy statements.

That’s where we’re at here.

And Obama appeared with Farrakhan

Why are you bringing people like Alex Jones into this discussion

 

[RU-05]

India has maybe peaked, or is near the peak of it's slow and steady upward climb.

Has to be noted that overall deaths per million is a pretty miniscule # relative to other countries, but 7dma of 63K and 7 dma of deaths over 900 for 2 weeks.

Wonder if they are doing anything different to stop the increase.

 

[bac2therac]

One of the best posts in this thread. People who are "against" masks are simply incapable of understanding science or risk/reward analysis. I've been trying hard to not engage with the anti-science crowd, as it's simply not productive, and ends up derailing the thread, but once in awhile these things need to be said.

No one answered by question yesterday on Biden saying 60K lives would be saved by wearing masks in the next few months vs fauci and other health officials telling people masks were worthless which seemingly contributed to tens of thousands of deaths since we were early in the pandemic

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

And Obama appeared with Farrakhan

Why are you bringing people like Alex Jones into this discussion

For the reason stated in that post. Pandering to that audience by the President and those in his camp destroys political consensus around reasonable positions.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Unfortunately the msm brought this on itself for lying for 4 years

Not good enough.

The call to wear masks wasn’t invented in a cnn editorial meeting. It came from a community of health experts.

If you refuse to rationally consider the recommendation because the ‘MSM’ broadcasts it, that is your problem—your irrational behavior.

The recommendation, and the rationale for wearing a mask, exists outside and apart from the media.

 

[bac2therac]

For the reason stated in that post. Pandering to that audience by the President and those in his camp destroys political consensus around reasonable positions.

Alex jones isnt as popular as you think. That you bring him up is beyond the pale. Meanwhile you deflect from the lying msm that cannot be trusted

 

[bac2therac]

Not good enough.

The call to wear masks wasn’t invented in a cnn editorial meeting. It came from a community of health experts.

If you refuse to rationally consider the recommendation because the ‘MSM’ broadcasts it, that is your problem—your irrational behavior.

The recommendation, and the rationale for wearing a mask, exists outside and apart from the media.

Oh the sames ones who said don't wear masks..ya mean you want us to believe them...remember when they LIED

 

[bac2therac]

There is no mask wearing at beaches and just some on boardwalks...yet where is the spread? Why are people trying to mandate masks wearing ANYtime you are outdoors

Where is the science on that one..oops

 

[fsg2]

The fight against masks is the Seriously the most asinine thing I've ever seen in my adult life. Do these folks also think condoms are a conspiracy?

Anyone with decent parents has been told since he could speak to cover his mouth when sneezing or coughing to avoid spreading germs. Masks are just a more serious version of that very simple concept: put something solid between those emitting germs and those breathing in.

What's the argument against that, again?

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Oh the sames ones who said don't wear masks..ya mean you want us to believe them...remember when they LIED

A generation of doctors recommended cigarettes and snackwell cookies. I don’t know what to tell you.

All I have to consider is that doctors in hospitals never stopped wearing masks, and seems there have been quite a few papers suggesting they work (including the one you shared that said even a mask with visible gaps between fabric and face apparently still caught 30% of contaminants).

 

[fsg2]

There is no mask wearing at beaches and just some on boardwalks...yet where is the spread? Why are people trying to mandate masks wearing ANYtime you are outdoors

Where is the science on that one..oops

Did anyone ever say that not wearing masks - OUTSIDE - leads to inevitable spread, every single time?

No. Lame straw man.

You don't even need science; this is basic common sense. When someone is sick with any kind of communicable illness, best thing for not getting sick is not to be anywhere near them (distancing). Next best is to put a barrier between your air and theirs (mask).

 

[bac2therac]

Did anyone ever say that not wearing masks - OUTSIDE - leads to inevitable spread, every single time?

No. Lame straw man.

You don't even need science; this is basic common sense. When someone is sick with any kind of communicable illness, best thing for not getting sick is not to be anywhere near them (distancing). Next best is to put a barrier between your air and theirs (mask).

If you arent sick why are you wearing masks...asymptomatic spread studies are dubious at best

We have someone running for President saying he will have a mandate to wear masks anytime you go outside..why are you claiming otherwise

 

[bac2therac]

The fight against masks is the Seriously the most asinine thing I've ever seen in my adult life. Do these folks also think condoms are a conspiracy?

Anyone with decent parents has been told since he could speak to cover his mouth when sneezing or coughing to avoid spreading germs. Masks are just a more serious version of that very simple concept: put something solid between those emitting germs and those breathing in.

What's the argument against that, again?

No issue with masks for the sick and those with symptoms

My whole point is this spreads..masks or no masks. Virus going to virus...look at Cali..Hawaii..Austrailia..spain..Italy..hong ko g

 

[Ronnie_B]

One of the best posts in this thread. People who are "against" masks are simply incapable of understanding science or risk/reward analysis. I've been trying hard to not engage with the anti-science crowd, as it's simply not productive, and ends up derailing the thread, but once in awhile these things need to be said.

I'm not anti-science, I grew up in a family of scientists and as you know I work exclusively with them, but I was raised to be skeptical of everything because sometimes science is wrong, I don't think it's fair to label people like me as anti-science (I'm assuming you're referring to me).

And FTR I'm not anti-mask either, in fact I'm wearing one now.