Start a thread sometime this year while you're watching. Frustrate the hell out him.
Greg Schiano: Rutgers football is closing in on a time when fans can ‘plan their holiday trips around our bowls’
- Thread starter BROTHERSKINNY
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Start a thread sometime this year while you're watching. Frustrate the hell out him.
Chris Ash did a great job with academic success, that is how Schiano was able to back into a bowl game. Is your argument now that we should have kept him, maybe given him 8 years to field a .500 team? Would have only been fair, right? Let's try to be consistent and unhypocritical.
This is something I'll be keeping in an eye on the next couple years. I'm very curious to see how Longo does at Wisconsin and what kind of influence having a tough blue collar HC like Fickell has on his offense.
Also something I've mentioned before here when talking about our defense and B10 defenses in general. How much of it is a product of not seeing stronger productive offenses outside of OSU? TCU won against a supposedly strong Michigan defense in a shootout. SEC defenses have had trouble at times too against these more productive offenses, including Alabama. This is why I have thought it's extremely important to have a productive offense. If the B10 starts to undergo a makeover like the SEC has the last handful of years, it's unlikely you're going to be able to stop teams on just defense alone.
From the article:
Wisconsin and Purdue headline an offensive shake-up that could be exactly what the Big Ten needs. Since 2015, the year after the Big Ten's last national title, the league has had only two offenses rank in the top 25 in scoring (No. 2 Ohio State, No. 17 Michigan), only one (No. 2 Ohio State) in the top 48 in yards per game, and only two in the top 30 in expected points added (No. 3 Ohio State, No. 24 Michigan)
Big Ten defenses, meanwhile, have thrived during the same span. Five rank among the top 11 in fewest points allowed and five are in the top eight in expected points added. But how much of the defensive success is tied to the offenses they typically face? Perhaps more significant: Are Big Ten offenses adequately preparing their defenses for the College Football Playoff? Michigan was a top-five defense in points and yards allowed entering the CFP, while Ohio State was in the top 15 in both categories. The two allowed 79 offensive points (TCU had two defensive touchdowns) and 1,021 yards in narrow playoff losses to TCU and Georgia.
"Unless you're playing Ohio State, you're not going to get exposure to offenses like that," a Power 5 defensive coordinator outside the Big Ten told ESPN. "Michigan only plays Ohio State once. Six Big Ten teams are in the top 25 defense-wise. Yeah, well a lot of that is because there's only one or two offenses in the top 25.
"Now it kind of makes sense, once you start seeing through some of the layers."
More offensive innovation will arrive in 2024 with the expansion additions of USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington. All four teams ranked among the nation's top six offenses in 2022, while the existing Big Ten produced just one top-20 offense (No. 9 Ohio State) and two in the top 30 (No. 24 Michigan) last season.
Also something I've mentioned before here when talking about our defense and B10 defenses in general. How much of it is a product of not seeing stronger productive offenses outside of OSU? TCU won against a supposedly strong Michigan defense in a shootout. SEC defenses have had trouble at times too against these more productive offenses, including Alabama. This is why I have thought it's extremely important to have a productive offense. If the B10 starts to undergo a makeover like the SEC has the last handful of years, it's unlikely you're going to be able to stop teams on just defense alone.
From the article:
Wisconsin and Purdue headline an offensive shake-up that could be exactly what the Big Ten needs. Since 2015, the year after the Big Ten's last national title, the league has had only two offenses rank in the top 25 in scoring (No. 2 Ohio State, No. 17 Michigan), only one (No. 2 Ohio State) in the top 48 in yards per game, and only two in the top 30 in expected points added (No. 3 Ohio State, No. 24 Michigan)
Big Ten defenses, meanwhile, have thrived during the same span. Five rank among the top 11 in fewest points allowed and five are in the top eight in expected points added. But how much of the defensive success is tied to the offenses they typically face? Perhaps more significant: Are Big Ten offenses adequately preparing their defenses for the College Football Playoff? Michigan was a top-five defense in points and yards allowed entering the CFP, while Ohio State was in the top 15 in both categories. The two allowed 79 offensive points (TCU had two defensive touchdowns) and 1,021 yards in narrow playoff losses to TCU and Georgia.
"Unless you're playing Ohio State, you're not going to get exposure to offenses like that," a Power 5 defensive coordinator outside the Big Ten told ESPN. "Michigan only plays Ohio State once. Six Big Ten teams are in the top 25 defense-wise. Yeah, well a lot of that is because there's only one or two offenses in the top 25.
"Now it kind of makes sense, once you start seeing through some of the layers."
More offensive innovation will arrive in 2024 with the expansion additions of USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington. All four teams ranked among the nation's top six offenses in 2022, while the existing Big Ten produced just one top-20 offense (No. 9 Ohio State) and two in the top 30 (No. 24 Michigan) last season.
Funny. Starts with "a salesman" but decides that's not insulting enough and goes to "used car salesman".
Also, Schiano's recruiting combined with his defensive coaching skills produced the best RU defenses I've ever seen. What he needs is a "Fridge" to help with the offense.
Obviously it's all talk until the games start, but at least having those as goals and a starting point is phenomenal.
Would be interesting (potentially horrifying) to hear our offensive key metrics and goals.
Like I mentioned in the post above, I feel like the B10 will be undergoing a makeover of sorts on offense in the next handful of years similar to what the SEC has the last handful of years. Offensive productivity is going to be very important imo.
Also notice Tulane was up there in 3/4 categories. So the year they were able to outperform their status on the landscape and beat USC in the Cotton Bowl is when their offense became more productive. Looked like they jumped from the 70s in YPG/YPP to 31 and 19 on offense. Similar jump from the 70s to 19 in scoring offense as well.
It's not a new phenomena I've seen either. That's what made me change my tune 15 some odd years ago with regards to the importance of offense. I was just pedestrian about it prior. Often, not always, when you see a team outperform their status on the landscape offensive productivity is towards the top 25% or better in the country. If you have a productive offense and about a mediocre defense you have a chance to do things and make some noise. Sometimes teams with a productive offense and lousy defense still do things (WF comes to mind) but it's better to have at least a mediocre defense, say like TCU last year.
Chris Ash only did a great job with academics, thanks to the infrastructure that Schiano implemented, but struggled with recruiting, which is the lifeblood of the program. And had the wrong recruiting strategy, which compounded our struggles to build the talent base.
Schiano has mostly made the right moves from Day 1. That’s why the defense has competitive talent. Now the focus will shift to building up the talent base of the offense. ‘24 Class will help significantly with this. Schiano deserves as long as it takes.
You mean the infrastructure Kyle Flood implemented or did you forget that Flood took over for your hero when he bolted for the pros and left Rutgers in hole it hasn't been able to dig out of yet.
Flood made use of the same infrastructure. He certainly didn’t build anything or augment anything, as far as I know. By ‘25, we’ll be completely out of the hole.
"Sewercuse". How old are you ?
And why do you say that ? we were away too.
Your act is tiresome and you being a Sewercuse fan makes it even worse
Seriously, doesn’t he know the correct nomenclature is “sara” with a lowercase s.
GS lost some fans in these ways:
- that he got hired over X
- that he replaced a coach they had a relationship with (very few and many thought Shea needed replacing)
- that he made demands of AD Mulcahy BEFORE he got hired
- that he took resources away from basketball as he and Mulcahy built football from the ground, up.
- GS got blamed for losing some long-time Olympic sports as money went to football instead (real blame is forcing Mulcahy to reduce athletics spending).
- he replaced players from the Shea era or did not play them while he trained up his players
- that he changed EVERYTHING, including the broadcast team which resulted in a long-time broadcaster being relegated to basketball only (GS made great choices there, future AD and former player Tim Pernettia and Tom McCarthy)
- Rutgers had spent a bunch of money to get "professional" rebranding of logos and spirit marks and trademarks and they sucked.. so Schiano brought us back the Block R. I don't know why anyone would be upset about that but maybe some had just spent a bunch of money on the "new" products.
In short, it is the micromanaging.. the Schiano knows best about everything stuff..
It took Schinao years to build a solid foundation for Rutgers football. It took Flood less time to allow that foundation to erode and, in some ways, he took a jackhammer to it. It will take Schiano years to rebuild that foundation.
Will Schiano 2.0 succeed? Does he have the same fire he needed to get it done the first time? Last year I was leaning toward doubtful.. but I think I see a different and better Schiano this preseason.
If Schiano succeeds again, then we need to do everything we can to make sure that foundation survives his eventual exit. Either that or we need to step up the fundraising side and buy an already successful "big name" D1 coach and staff can win here because they won everywhere. But we know Schiano's way has worked here so I think we need to find his assistants and players who want to become coaches who will be Schiano 3.0 and Schiano 4.0... etc.
On Air-Raid...
Wasn't that style what the last OC was hired for?
I think we made several mistakes in hiring coaches.. both head coach and OC. We hired Ash because Barry Alvarez told us he's your man and because he was the DC of Ohio State. But we found out that he could not handle this job and his defense? Well, it never was his defense.. it was co-OC Luke Fickell's defense and he was a great HC Cincinnati and now has the job at Wisconsin.. Barry Alvarez's Wisconsin.
I think Ash made that same mistake hiring Drew Mehringer as OC. It wasn't Drew Mehringer's offense.. it was Houston head coach Tom Herman's offense. And I am afraid that GS made the same error hiring Sean Gleeson from OK State... where, I think we see now, it wasn't Sean Gleeson's offense.. it was HC Mike Gundy's offense.
I do not know that Air Raid will work here or in the Big Ten. Weather and climate for football season in Big Ten land may not cooperate. And I do not know we can recruit they talent you need. Any NJ HS doing air raid?
I am open to the idea. But you basically need to start with 1 or 2 NFL QBs. When have we had one of those? McMahon had the arm. Savage had the arm. Sitkowski had the arm but not the vision. You need receivers that catch EVERYTHING and a highly-accurate strong-armed QB that can hit a covered receiver on a quick slant with a presnap read that says that is the pass that will be there without any interference from pass-rushers or zone drops. When have we had that? Can an air-raid OC bring that with him?
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(edit- just thought of this.. I wonder if NIL money will harm APR in these places that toss money around)
We are nowhere near where we should be in APR. First, it is a multiyear measure. New coach comes in, replaces players, what those players choose to do elsewhere still counts. What previous coaches did with APR still counts in that. what is it, a 6-year window.
Both Flood and Ash let it slip. It is up to GS to bring it back.
Here's the actual football APR numbers by academic year.. take the first number for football year.. the numbers seem close... but hat 992 in 2008-2009 had us number 1 while last years 974 has us number 9 in only the Big Ten.
The core there is the 6-year, multi-year score.
GS-Football 2004-2005 961
GS-Football 2005-2006 971
GS-Football 2006-2007 977
GS-Football 2007-2008 980
GS-Football 2008-2009 992
GS-Football 2009-2010 988
GS-Football 2010-2011 982
GS-Football 2011-2012 978
KF-Football 2012-2013 980
KF-Football 2013-2014 980
KF-Football 2014-2015 972
KF-Football 2015-2016 973
CA-Football 2016-2017 973
CA-Football 2017-2018 971
CA-Football 2018-2019 979
GS-Football 2020-2021 977
GS-Football 2021-2022 974
| Football | Northwestern University | IL | 2021-2022 | 996 | ||
| Football | University of Wisconsin-Madison | WI | 2021-2022 | 996 | ||
| Football | The Ohio State University | OH | 2021-2022 | 993 | ||
| Football | University of Minnesota, Twin Cities | MN | 2021-2022 | 992 | ||
| Football | University of Michigan | MI | 2021-2022 | 987 | ||
| Football | Michigan State University | MI | 2021-2022 | 982 | ||
| Football | Indiana University, Bloomington | IN | 2021-2022 | 976 | ||
| Football | Purdue University | IN | 2021-2022 | 974 | ||
| Football | Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, New Brunswick | NJ | 2021-2022 | 974 | ||
| Football | University of Nebraska, Lincoln | NE | 2021-2022 | 969 | ||
| Football | University of Iowa | IA | 2021-2022 | 968 | ||
| Football | University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign | IL | 2021-2022 | 962 | ||
| Football | Pennsylvania State University | PA | 2021-2022 | 958 | ||
| Football | University of Maryland, College Park | MD | 2021-2022 | 948 |
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I follow Brenneman X, but his feed is annoying, and his multiple camera angle interviews can get tedious, especially with the extreme close up your nose shots where we can count his nasal passage hair.
Should be interesting. Short list for next HC when Greg leaves the job:
Dan Mullen
Mike Elko (someone here said he has no interest in coming)
Longo- maybe the same.
Someone from the Leach tree with HC experience or P5 OC experience.
So it went down under Schiano from where Chris Ash was able to raise it in 2019. Wow, that says a lot, a failed leader on and off the field, but let's give him another 5 years to get to .500 football.
For sure it can work here and weather isn't an issue. It's also less about Air Raid and more about wide open offense that uses tempo. The midwest has weather that's at least as bad as here, if not more so and MAC teams run it. OSU runs an open offense. It's not like it snows every weekend. Colorado's new OC is from the Briles tree and he ran it at Kent State and had a top 5 offense IIRC one of the years in his tenure there. There's also this misconception that the ball is thrown on every down. It's not. Baylor's teams under Briles were often in the top 5-20 in rushing. Riley, Heupel, Dykes, Briles run the ball and have talked about the importance of running it. Longo had 2 1000 yard rushers IIRC somewhere in his career. Leach liked to throw it the most but all the offshoots have their own twists on it. I'd think Harrell is probably the closest to Leach in that respect. Maybe KK as well.
As far as talent, that's one of the good points about using an Air Raid, if you have the right coach it's a little more plug and play and you don't have to get the top recruits in the country. Leach had been doing it all along throughout his career. He wasn't getting top names in the country at QB. I mean just look at Longo at Wisconsin now. Wisconsin was known for its OL and RBs. Longo is hired and boom they get like 4-5 potential qbs between the portal and recruiting. Potential solid contributors will come if you give them reason to with a coach who has a track record of being productive on offense. QBs, among others, are transferring in search of playing time and opportunity.
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While I think Schiano was a terrible hire, I do give him much of the credit for showcasing (15 years earlier) what the program is capable of and pushing to get the stadium expanded, resulting years later in the Big10 invite. He’s a good salesman, but a bad fit for a struggling program in the conference he got us into. I’d be happy to have him as AD, but was certain to fail as HC this time around. His talent and philosophy belong in the junk heap of CFB history.
- Either a bold faced lie or inaccurate. Went 7-9 in 2012. An improvement from 4-12 in 2011. Inherited Josh Freeman as QB. Fell back in year 2 with major injuries to key players. Team fell to 2-14 after he left.
- HIred at Ohio State. Urban Meyer. Well respected.
- Idiot fans without a clue didn't want him. They hired and then withdrew offer. AD hired a failure instead. Not a strong argument against GS unless you happen to be a fool.
- Don't even know what you are talking about regarding Miami. He was offered the job. He was also offered Michigan which he turned down. Your thoughts? He was too scared to take on the challenge and had it easy at RU. Then he leaves for the NFL and you cry your baby eyes out. I played golf with him! He didn't give me a hug. Boo hoo hoo.
Ok genius. Who would you have hired with hindsight? Who now? You give him credit, rightly so, for getting RU into the B1G. His talent? For what exactly? Recruiting? Game day coaching?
I’d have hired anyone with background and emphasis on offense. His philosophy is as relevant today as warfare with rocks and spears.
It’s not even obvious if the offense would’ve crossed midfield against Maryland even if Maryland had no players on the field. That’s how bad Schiano’s offense is. And he sees nothing wrong with it.
It’s not even obvious if the offense would’ve crossed midfield against Maryland even if Maryland had no players on the field. That’s how bad Schiano’s offense is. And he sees nothing wrong with it.
Did you miss the part on how it is a 6-year rolling number and how players leaving and not making progress toward their degrees hurts the number?
Or did you understand that and chose to ignore it because then you couldn't take a shot at Schiano?
I think the MAC teams have talent pretty much equal to each other and are generally smaller at most positions.. though less skilled. That means coverage is not as tight, passing lanes are wider, etc.
Consider the jump from College to NFL and how QBs have to be a lot sharper and have very strong arms.. because the opposite is true. Coverage is tighter, passing lanes are smaller and close faster. DLs are taller to swat balls and faster and can ever do drop-zone coverage. And still.. the passing game rules in the NFL these days.
Many of our Big Ten opponents have future NFL talent and size and speed in many places.
I will say this.. deciding to run the ball from tight 2-TE formations is not the answer. Not in the Big Ten. With Ray Rice in the Big East and an OL better than most DLs.. we could even run into 8-in-the-box. In the Big Ten.. we have been failing to run into 7 and fewer when they do not fear the pass.
There can never be to much deception - Sun Tzu.
We need to spread the formation, no matter if we run or pass... imho. We need to run counters, screens.. and do it exceptionally well. Maybe if we find a great QB.. a surefire future NFLer.. then maybe we can go to a pass-first thing. Maybe getting an Air-Raid OC or HC could bring a future NFL QB that could handle that. I do not know. But unless Wimsatt or Simon has made huge strides... and teh WR corps has done the same.. I don't think even the ghost of Mike Leach (RIP) could make it run here.. in the Big Ten.
I do think Leach would find an under-recruited QB who had the arm he needed.. and could teach him the vision he needs. But could he do it in New Jersey and win in the Big Ten? We shall never know. I suppose Michigan buying Harbaugh from the NFL when Hoke had them in trouble could be similar... but it is a blue-blood outfit. It took years and years for Harbaugh to beat Ohio State and have them where they are.. and they spent so much money on Harbaugh, recruiting, coaches, trips for the whole team... god only knows what they are paying in NIL these days... m maybe a photo of the players parking lot might give us a clue...
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Give me a break. Do you honestly think he wants to lose? So hire anyone who has ever been an offensive coordinator with no consideration of defense and special teams? Or the challenges of recruiting? Am I getting this correct? Please help me here.
Those are the facts you laid out. It went down under Schiano from where Chris Ash had built it up. To the Schiano cult 2 + 2 = 5, and God help anyone who says no, 2 + 2 = 4.
Sure.. true facts.. as was the point that each year's number represents a 6-year AVERAGE.
My lord, you are intent on playing the ignorant fool.
How can you not understand that if Chris Ash recruited marginal, undisciplined student athletes and players who should not be on a Big Ten team that those things that Ash did would result in lower numbers FOR YEARS in APR.
GS knows how his players did for THIS specific year and he bragged about it.. but that just means that the results this specific year should bring up the number that is teh 6-year average in the long run. But if a Chris Ash player transfers and drops out from some DIII school then that would count against the Rutgers APR because that player made zero progress... and we once recruited him.
At least football has a lot of players. In basketball a transfer and subsequent dropout can really crush the APR because of so few players... and there is a lot of transfer portal stuff going on in basketball.
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I don't think he wants to lose but knowing there is no hook, anytime soon at least, it becomes someone's patience vs. another's stubbornness.
No, he doesn’t want to lose. But he doesn’t recognize his philosophy is the reason the offense is terrible.
He wants to build a Wisconsin roster but clearly he’s failing at that, therefore he needs to adapt to the strengths of the players he has, yet he’s blind to that obvious need.
You can’t play Wisconsin football with Western Michigan talent. He’s incapable of change.
He wants to build a Wisconsin roster but clearly he’s failing at that, therefore he needs to adapt to the strengths of the players he has, yet he’s blind to that obvious need.
You can’t play Wisconsin football with Western Michigan talent. He’s incapable of change.
Right? He replaced the OC with one he knew and worked with before. One who seems like he improved himself and his offense since leaving Rutgers.
ooh.. I think we'll soon see if KC was to blame for the failures of 2010 (and the few in 2009) or if it was his Co-OC in charge of the run game.
actually it might have been the system installed that didn't have the type of talent on roster to make it work.
KC probably learned from that which helped him become a good OC
2008.. the last year for John McNulty.. Teel threw for 3400+.. Britt had 1371 yards receiving and 75 rushing. We had 3RBs almost got 1500 yards between them.
We had the talent to keep that system.
Well, I have a distinct hatred for that new 2009-2010 "system"... as did others here. It was designed like an NFL pass-first offense where every down, the OL stands up and starts doing zone-blocking.. that is, grabbing and twisting defenders rather than firing out and pushing them out of the way. Week after week for 2 years @zappaa would decry that offense.
The idea is to make every play look like a pass to the defense.. to freeze them... but it was not a SHOTGUN! So what happened was the QB took the snap and turned around.. dropped back 5 yards to an RB standing still waiting for a handoff. The QB would then hand it off or turn around and survey the field to throw the balls.
The QB had no idea what blitz was coming, his back was turned. The RB could survey the blocking and pick where the hole was going to be... but what happened once in 2009, at Syracuse, and many times in 2010, probably from watching teh Syracuse game tape from 2009, was that most teams just blitzed to that point 5 yards behind center. They did not have to engage the OL at all because there was never going to be an RB taking a quick handoff and running up the middle while they stunted or blitzed elsewhere. Furthermore, with OL not firing out, middle backers could just wait there unmolested to read holes and make tackles when the RB got the ball before the blitz.
It was ugly and, unfortunately, I'm gonna take that memory to the grave with me.. the sheer idiocy of it all.. from people paid to coach football. That is one thing I do hold against Schiano.. (well, "hold" is a bit strong.. just a "ding" in his record) that he never seemed to look at his offense as a DC should.. to see where it was vulnerable. Doug Marone certainly saw it. And the next year when we played Syracuse GS had them run a different type of offense.. but it was like it took him a full year to watch that 2009 game and learn from it.
Since we played Minnesota with KC as the OC I am guessing that GS looked at his current offense carefully and that this was a good hire. That's the hope. But since McNulty was very successful under Schiano and sucked here with Ash.. I kinda wonder if GS reached out to McNulty instead of Gleeson what might have happened these past years. I am guessing the big difference there was Schiano 1.0's recruiting system that helped McNulty in his first stint here and what he failed under Ash without it.
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Kind of misleading. He didn't ask a professor to alter or change a grade. He asked if the kid could do anything to improve the grade - big difference.
Drunk & stupid is no way to go through life, but you are the exception
Loved Graber he was a great coach and a better person. He loved RU. Took him two weeks to clean out his office after Grunninger smoked him. He wanted to thank all the people who worked for him.
Class Act!
You can’t compare Graber to Schiano. Two coaches from two different eras.
It’s like comparing Jim Brown to Ray Rice.
