OT: 2022 World Cup Thread

[mildone]

Very thorough answer, thanks.

I appreciate you overlooking my massive verbosity. 🤣

I can talk soccer all day and night.

 

[e5fdny]

There may be many reasons to feel sorry for the rest of the world. The one you cite is not among them.

Agree.

Let them have this one.

 

[Doctor Worm]

True, but they could easily decide to say F it and try to stick to the US

No chance. They will be playing to win, at least well into the second half. That could change if England has a safe lead.

 

[mdk01]

If we play as well as we played against England, then we have a great chance. If we play like we played against Wales in the 2nd half, we have a poor chance.

FIFY

 

[e5fdny]

Ive heard this point a million times. Be original. You can also say it is like saying you can't run past a db until the ball is snapped. Different games. Comparisons like this are stupid/lazy.

Not necessarily as the ball is not in play at that point.

Offense it is a procedural play.

Defense is the offsides.

 

[RUTrack94]

Just like RU in basketball, USA will break the drought and make it to the knockout stage!

 

[e5fdny]

World Series doesn’t end in home run derby
Super Bowl doesn’t end in a FG kick off
NBA finals don’t end with 3 point contest
NHL Stanley cup doesn’t end in a shoot out

Just a statement ,why do soccer fans get so upset about the offsides rule.

I don’t want to do anything like the Europeans

When fans other countries talk 💩 about soccer my reply is
What if trout, Lebron ,tyreek hill , Lamar Jackson played soccer and Calvin Johnson was the goalie

We did that on the women’s side and…

Well I was going to say we’re Brazil. But in reality the World wants to be us.

Our men need to catch up. Just as the rest of the World needed to against our ladies.

 

[RuSnp]

If we play as well as we played against England, then we have a great chance. If we play like we played against Wales, we have a poor chance.

My favorite three approaches to attacking a team that is playing a very compact defensive game include combinations of:

- patience with tons of drop and switches combined with probing passes into the midfield
- overloading numbers to a side or quadrant of the opponent's half
- death by a thousand passes (aka small-ball)

There is a lot of other stuff, but these are the basics, IMO.

We were trying the first one against Wales, but failed miserably. Mostly because of overly slow ball movement, imprecision in the probing passes, and lack of quality first touch by our midfielders. Our midfield was WAY better today against a much higher quality team.

When done right, that first approach, patience with switches, exhausts the opponent because it forces a compact defense to run from one side of the field to the other and back again as the ball is switched dozens and dozens of times. Make them do it a hundred times in the first half and they'll become worn out in the later stages of the second half. Do it wrong, like we did against Wales, and you wind up with possession without a purpose. We hold the ball a lot without ever really threatening. Exactly what the opponent choosing to play a super compact defense wants.

Attacking a compact defense is really not much different than attacking a team defending into your defensive third except you wind up with a much smaller area in which to work. Instead of two thirds of the field or so in which to work, you wind up with just half the field or less. So you need to be faster and more precise with ball movement because there's less available space and time.

Rapid and constant combination play becomes more critical, and overlaps or underlaps can be particularly deadly when done right as they are designed to force defenders to constantly make lesser-of-two-evils type choices when deciding to defend the first attacker or the overlapping/underlapping player. Don't confuse the overlapping runs our wing defenders make with combination play overlaps. The former is just about a player overlapping the midfielders to add numbers into the opponent's final third during the attack. That is a sort of brute force, but often effective, approach to creating a numbers-up situation and forcing the opponent to drop additional players - not super useful against a compact defense that's already dropping players back.

The latter is a type of combination play between two attacking players who are basically using small movements to try to force a first defender to choose between holding the first attacker in place or guarding the overlapping player's (the second attacker's) short curved runs. This presents the first and second defenders with a dilemma because they don't want the second attacker to roam free and receive a through ball, but they also don't want to leave the first attacker free to penetrate off the dribble.

While it's also a case of trying to create a numbers-up situation, it's a lot more transient and localized and can occur anywhere on the field while moving in any direction with the ball, versus when a defender makes an overlapping run up the sideline which is a field-sized thing all about moving forward. Done right, tactical overlaps unbalance the disciplined shape of the compact defense, which is a little bit like playing Jenga. You keep pulling at the pieces (the defenders) until you pull the right combination and the whole defense collapses (momentarily, but hopefully long enough to create a scoring chance).

As I said, though, all that actually applies to attacking any kind of defense. All the cues and responses are the same. It's just that it all has to happen much faster against a compact defense than against a defense that is spread out across two-thirds of the field.

I'll leave the tactics to you - I'm more a man manager 🤣. But there were two people warning about Iran in this thread- you and me. I look at it like this - if I was playing "moneyball" construct-a-team-to-advance to-a-World-Cup-knockout-stage - it'd look a lot like this Iranian team. I'd built a stout defensive team that can counter from an underappreciated region and save my bucks for two underrated forwards playing for Porto and Leverkusen - two underrated clubs themselves.

That said - I think we win.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Because there is a difference between being in an offside position, and being offside.

In the situation you cite, the player was in an offside position. However, he will only be ruled offside if he is involved in the play.

ahh.. he was the first guy in... that is, ahead of the rest of the pack... so if he got a rebound off the bar or the goalie he'd be okay.. having not received a pass? But if he headed the ball directly off the kick it would have been offsides?

 

[topdecktiger]

We just got a draw with one of the top 5 teams in the world. This stage is all about advancing to the knockout rounds. With this draw advancing is in our own hands. Iran won’t be easy.

I don't really agree about the significance. For one, it sounds kind of like a moral victory. I just don't like the mindset.

More importantly, the draw didn't help the team advance. The only option the U.S. had to advance was beating Iran, regardless of the result of this game.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

View embedded media

I could relate the story of how the term soccer is derived, but it is originally a British term to distinguish from rugby.

I looked it up after seeing the commercial with Peyton Manning and that English dude. "Association Football" (as shown above.. to distinguish from Rugby Football) was how it was initially known. And then 'Soc Football... so, apparently, the Brits shortened it further to football (futbol everywhere else) but in the USA we shortened it to Sock and then Soccer.. because, by then, we already had an offshoot called "football".

So it is like the Americans calling it "Association" and the Brits calling it "Football".. but it all stems from the Britts naming it in the first place. Meanwhile, we derived "fries" from the French "frites" and the Britts went their own way with "chips". So they have no standing from which to tell us to call it "futbol" and not "soccer".

 

[MadRU]

I don't really agree about the significance. For one, it sounds kind of like a moral victory. I just don't like the mindset.

More importantly, the draw didn't help the team advance. The only option the U.S. had to advance was beating Iran, regardless of the result of this game.

You see playing one of the best teams in the world to a draw and at times out playing them as a moral victory? I don’t agree with that sentiment.

But it still comes down to beating Iran. The Wales game was the disappointment not the performance against England.

 

[topdecktiger]

You see playing one of the best teams in the world to a draw and at times out playing them as a moral victory? I don’t agree with that sentiment.

But it still comes down to beating Iran. The Wales game was the disappointment not the performance against England.

Yes, I see it as a moral victory.

I also don't put much stock in it, because I don't England is as good as advertised. They almost always disappoint in the World Cup/Euro. I don't think their program is at the same level as countries like France, Germany, Argentina, etc.

 

[topdecktiger]

You see playing one of the best teams in the world to a draw and at times out playing them as a moral victory? I don’t agree with that sentiment.

But it still comes down to beating Iran. The Wales game was the disappointment not the performance against England.

Yes, I see it as a moral victory.

I also don't put much stock in it, because I don't England is as good as advertised. They almost always disappoint in the World Cup/Euro. I don't think their program is at the same level as countries like France, Germany, Argentina, etc.

 

[Kbee3]

I appreciate you overlooking my massive verbosity. 🤣

I can talk soccer all day and night.

You seem intent on proving it in this thread.

 

[RutgersDom]

If we beat Iran we would be on 4 pts. Iran would be on 3. Only way GD would come into play is if Wales beat England.

No. If we lose today and wales looses to England (both very possible) it comes down to GD assuming

We just got a draw with one of the top 5 teams in the world. This stage is all about advancing to the knockout rounds. With this draw advancing is in our own hands. Iran won’t be easy.

agreed. Huge results today and I’ve been saying for the last 8 years 2022 we will see much improved play and 26 - 30 we will compete with the best. Our training changed so much to small sides years ago and the dividends are showing. I played on a club team where Meola was the goalie and we trained well BUT ALL the club team today and for the last 10 years have trained much better to improve our skill. We are on the rise. No doubt. Not surprised by today at all!!

 

[mildone]

FIFY

I think the US played poorly in both halves of the Wales game. They intentionally ceded possession to us until we scored, and they were struggling when they had possession, probably due to nerves and our early intensity on D.

But we did very little with all that possession, squandering the opportunity. We looked nervous and hesitant in the attack all first half, only creating a few good scoring chances and having to chase a lot in transition.

Both halves today were much improved for us, against much more talent and skill, despite becoming a little tired after the 65th minute. The US subs, once settled in, reasserted the US intensity for the rest of the game. Very good, complete game, IMO.

 

[mildone]

I'll leave the tactics to you - I'm more a man manager 🤣. But there were two people warning about Iran in this thread- you and me. I look at it like this - if I was playing "moneyball" construct-a-team-to-advance to-a-World-Cup-knockout-stage - it'd look a lot like this Iranian team. I'd built a stout defensive team that can counter from an underappreciated region and save my bucks for two underrated forwards playing for Porto and Leverkusen - two underrated clubs themselves.

That said - I think we win.

I (we) could be wrong, but I think the Iran game will be a tough, grind it out contest. I think it’s 55/45 we win.

One concern is that this US team was inconsistent during qualifying. I don’t recall them putting two consecutive great performances together without a letdown game between (they won several games that were closer than they ought to have been).

I think we need to be at our best if Iran is at their best, to win. I don’t think either team can come out flat and expect to still win. OTOH, GB has England‘s very successful approach to Iran on film to study. I am not so sure the Wales game provides as much useful info to Iran.

 

[mildone]

You seem intent on proving it in this thread.

Sorry. Love the game and played/coached most of my life.

 

[RutgersDom]

I'll leave the tactics to you - I'm more a man manager 🤣. But there were two people warning about Iran in this thread- you and me. I look at it like this - if I was playing "moneyball" construct-a-team-to-advance to-a-World-Cup-knockout-stage - it'd look a lot like this Iranian team. I'd built a stout defensive team that can counter from an underappreciated region and save my bucks for two underrated forwards playing for Porto and Leverkusen - two underrated clubs themselves.

That said - I think we win.

How is giving up 6 goals to England stout? We gave Wales their goal as we should have just contained instead of sliding there with his back to the goal...Can Iran win? of course...Should we win? YES! Whatever happens the growth is clearly showing and the future is so bright...Boys are playing very well...So happy to see this!

 

[RutgersDom]

I think the US played poorly in both halves of the Wales game. They intentionally ceded possession to us until we scored, and they were struggling when they had possession, probably due to nerves and our early intensity on D.

But we did very little with all that possession, squandering the opportunity. We looked nervous and hesitant in the attack all first half, only creating a few good scoring chances and having to chase a lot in transition.

Both halves today were much improved for us, against much more talent and skill, despite becoming a little tired after the 65th minute. The US subs, once settled in, reasserted the US intensity for the rest of the game. Very good, complete game, IMO.

I'd have to disagree on the first half of the Wales game...That was clearly our half and thought we dominated, played very well.

 

[RUevolution36]

I (we) could be wrong, but I think the Iran game will be a tough, grind it out contest. I think it’s 55/45 we win.

One concern is that this US team was inconsistent during qualifying. I don’t recall them putting two consecutive great performances together without a letdown game between (they won several games that were closer than they ought to have been).

I think we need to be at our best if Iran is at their best, to win. I don’t think either team can come out flat and expect to still win. OTOH, GB has England‘s very successful approach to Iran on film to study. I am not so sure the Wales game provides as much useful info to Iran.

I'm not sure where our goals are going to come from. Good stuff in getting the ball fwd today... but we've got to find someone with a nose for goal. Set pieces today were terrible. Pulisic's free kicks were trash in the Wales game, but were better today... however, no one in a blue shirt looked like they wanted to attack the ball... lots of standing and waiting for the ball to come to them.

 

[William J. Leggett]

Soccer blows, so I don't watch it much. However, every big game seems to have an offside controversy. Obviously, the rule is a problem. Time to expect better.

Show why are you in the thread?

 

[Roy_Faulker]

I am so confused by the Hadji Wright inclusion. Think he was the only player who didn’t break a sweat. I know we are trying f to stop the easy ball up the middle on our press but man he always looked like he was out for a walk in the park. No urgency to his play.

Would rather start Aaronson at striker to push the pace up top than have Wright walking around.

Ferreira for Iran?

 

[mildone]

Show why are you in the thread?

Let him troll. It’s his reason for living.

 

[CERU00]

Post mortem thoughts. 1) Why Sterling starts over Grealish and/or Foden is a mystery. 2) Turner was fantastic- night and day from Wales. 3) Musah/Adams/ McKennie will be a challenge for any opponent and was the equal/better of the vaunted Mount/Bellingham/Rice trio. Did Rice even play I cant remember a kick from him. 4) Bellingham couldn't deal with our physicality. I wonder about him moving to EPL. 5) Pickford for England was very shaky I thought. IMO there are 2, maybe 3 keepers I'd start over him if I were Southgate. He will cost them a match. 6) Harry Maguire - much maligned - was MoM for me. 7) Kane's work ethic is remarkable. If we had him, just him, I'd put money on us to win the whole thing (at decent odds of course!)

Pickford is very good. Shaky, lol? He didn't need to much of anything today.

I'm still mystified why they didn't bring in Foden.

 

[mildone]

I'm not sure where our goals are going to come from. Good stuff in getting the ball fwd today... but we've got to find someone with a nose for goal. Set pieces today were terrible. Pulisic's free kicks were trash in the Wales game, but were better today... however, no one in a blue shirt looked like they wanted to attack the ball... lots of standing and waiting for the ball to come to them.

True. Scoring against good defending hasn’t been a strength of this national team.

I think Reyna could be the missing piece to solve that puzzle. Not as a scorer, necessarily. but as a facilitator, same as Weah but with a different skill set. Problem is the coaches seem to think he’s not fully healthy.

I noticed several shot opportunities from the edges of the box in today‘s game, that players didn’t take. I’d bet GB will bring that up and we may see more outside shots taken on Tuesday.

 

[RUevolution36]

True. Scoring against good defending hasn’t been a strength of this national team.

I think Reyna could be the missing piece to solve that puzzle. Not as a scorer, necessarily. but as a facilitator, same as Weah but with a different skill set. Problem is the coaches seem to think he’s not fully healthy.

I noticed several shot opportunities from the edges of the box in today‘s game, that players didn’t take. I’d bet GB will bring that up and we may see more outside shots taken on Tuesday.

My observation...the fwds seem to be asked to stay in their lanes...pulisic and weah wide and into the channels... whoever is the 9 hovers in the middle. If that is the case, then we need musah and/or weston to crash the box at the posts earlier in the attacking movement to get bodies in there for the cross. They are coming late and attacking movements are dying out as the wide guys wait for guys to show up. Dest is also not as apt as jedi to make the overlapping run. He seems to prefer coming inside, a la man city's cancelo, which leaves weah as the widest player. If weah can come inside more, he might be in better positions to score, rather than just be a wide creator.

 

[Kbee3]

Sorry. Love the game and played/coached most of my life.

Nothing to be sorry about. Your posts here are great and interesting and educational for posters like me who have only recently warmed up to the game. I grew up with football....American football.
I've always loved it. No matter how much some of my teams try to make me not.

 

[William J. Leggett]

Then Lalas gets another chance to diss Zimmerman, THEN they show three lousy plays to back Lalas up. Never saw three lowlights from one player in any sport, ever.

I did think Lalas was a little harsh, but he says it like he sees it no matter what and since he played the exact position as Zimmerman (Centre-Back) I could see him being a little bit harsher when evaluating that position’s play.

 

[RUevolution36]

I did think Lalas was a little harsh, but he says it like he sees it no matter what and since he played the exact position as Zimmerman (Centre-Back) I could see him being a little bit harsher when evaluating that position’s play.

Zimmerman is a liability back there. The criticism was warranted.

 

[krup]

How is giving up 6 goals to England stout? We gave Wales their goal as we should have just contained instead of sliding there with his back to the goal...Can Iran win? of course...Should we win? YES! Whatever happens the growth is clearly showing and the future is so bright...Boys are playing very well...So happy to see this!

The England game was a real outlier for this Iran team. They only gave up 8 goals in 18 qualifying games.

 

[krup]

No. If we lose today and wales looses to England (both very possible) it comes down to GD assuming

agreed. Huge results today and I’ve been saying for the last 8 years 2022 we will see much improved play and 26 - 30 we will compete with the best. Our training changed so much to small sides years ago and the dividends are showing. I played on a club team where Meola was the goalie and we trained well BUT ALL the club team today and for the last 10 years have trained much better to improve our skill. We are on the rise. No doubt. Not surprised by today at all!!

Here’s the way I put it to people who do not pay as much attention to the USMNT…

Our competition in CONCACAF is improving because of MLS. The domestic leagues and previous foreign options were so bad for players in many of these countries that it is huge jump to instead be an MLS player and get the training, nutrition, etc. that entails.

The US is improving because more of our young players play in better leagues in Europe, but the jump is not as great so the improvement is more incremental and slower.

 

[MadRU]

Saudi Arabia dominating Poland and just like that Poland strikes and scores to take the lead.

 

[MadRU]

Wow, penalty call on Poland. Soft call.

 

[MadRU]

Save!!!!

 

[MadRU]

Damn Poland just hit the crossbar.

 

[leftoright]

So who backs up Zimmerman. Ream did a great job but needs a better partner back there. I just can't see Lalas' permission to say any player on the U.S. team is "weak". Why do the subs come in at the 70' mark? Why not earlier with Aaronson and Reyna?

 

[leftoright]

Damn Poland just hit the crossbar.

Make the posts sknnier!

 

[MadRU]

Now Poland hit the post. Still 1-0