OT: Anybody Waiting for their Kid's Early Decision/Action for College?

[Knight Shift]

This might be interesting here, with regard to how it has become harder and harder to earn admittance to top colleges. In the case of Princeton, which I used for illustrative purposes in a piece I wrote last year, I found that they offered admission to just 6.1 percent of their 31,056 applicants for the Class of '21. For comparison, the Class of 1964 came in on a 32.5 percent acceptance rate - five time higher (1,264 out of 3,883 who applied). A quarter century later, that rate had been cut in half, to 16.9 percent, when 2,214 applicants out of 12,482 were admitted to the Class of 1992.

Other bits about the Class of 2021:

• Just 9.4 percent came from independent boarding schools; 60.5 from public high schools.
  
• 17 percent are the first in their families to go to college.
  
• 49.6 of the class are men, compared with 100 percent of the Class of '64.

That's about right.
Schools use Naviance to see admission histories for their high school and particular colleges. If my son's school is any indication, it is tough for NJ kids to gain admission to Princeton. Fortunately, that was a school we dropped off our list. Son did not like the vibe there.

 

[mdk01]

This might be interesting here, with regard to how it has become harder and harder to earn admittance to top colleges. In the case of Princeton, which I used for illustrative purposes in a piece I wrote last year, I found that they offered admission to just 6.1 percent of their 31,056 applicants for the Class of '21. For comparison, the Class of 1964 came in on a 32.5 percent acceptance rate - five time higher (1,264 out of 3,883 who applied). A quarter century later, that rate had been cut in half, to 16.9 percent, when 2,214 applicants out of 12,482 were admitted to the Class of 1992.

Other bits about the Class of 2021:

• Just 9.4 percent came from independent boarding schools; 60.5 from public high schools.
  
• 17 percent are the first in their families to go to college.
  
• 49.6 of the class are men, compared with 100 percent of the Class of '64.

One think you have to take into account is that it's much easier to apply to a large number of schools now than it was in 1964, or even 25 years later. I think from 3383 to 12482 to 31056 illustrates that rather clearly. Not saying it isn't significantly harder, it is, but relying on the number of applications overstates things.

 

[mdk01]

Here's his list in order of preference: MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Columbia, Penn, UC Berkeley, Rutgers, UCLA. He is going to pursue Computer Science.
The first 3 on that list are next to impossible admits (less than 1 in 15), and many kids with perfect SAT scores and grades get rejected. Cornell, Columbia, Penn, and Berkeley are long shots too. And have heard UCLA Comp Sci admit rate is below 10%.
Thought that Michigan, Purdue, and Georgia Tech would be somewhere in the middle, but he wanted the Northeast or West Coast.

From many incidental discussions and reading the boards on College Confidential, there is more to admissions than perfect (or near perfect) SAT scores and grades. And while it used to be the case that doing a bunch of activities helped your resume, now colleges want applicants to demonstrate a passion and accomplishments in one area. They are also keen on community service. And the Ivies we visited as well as Stanford are committed to giving applicants who are first generation college students admission--which may mean an applicant with lower scores, grades, etc. may be chosen for admission over a "more qualified" applicant.

I wonder if you can still separate yourself these days by a pure show of chutzpa. Dartmouth's application way back when (but not 1964 way back) had a few short answer questions . For a couple of years one was "Describe your strongest personal aspect?" One guy who got in answered in 2 words: "My thighs."

 

[motorb54]

So basically what I am reading here, for the most part, is that most of you feel it is OK for your kids to apply to multiple schools and choose the one they feel is best for them. Yet when a H.S. football player decides to go to a school other than RU, that may fit his needs better, he is a piece of crap. Got it!

Only if it is Penn State.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

My son graduated as an engineer last year and now he is pursuing his dream by working for one of the top NASCAR race teams. I believe that he was their only hire.

-Scarlet Jerry

 

[LevaosLectures]

My son is in Kindergarten and reads at level L and is ranked #2 in the state in BMX.

You guys are funny.

 

[SHUSource]

One think you have to take into account is that it's much easier to apply to a large number of schools now than it was in 1964, or even 25 years later. I think from 3383 to 12482 to 31056 illustrates that rather clearly. Not saying it isn't significantly harder, it is, but relying on the number of applications overstates things.

This is true, yet it speaks more to the idea that more kids than ever before are competing for spots in the class. It goes for all the good schools, really. But you’re right, this is just one metric and doesn’t tell the whole story. I just happened to have it at arm’s length.

 

[Knight Shift]

This is true, yet it speaks more to the idea that more kids than ever before are competing for spots in the class. It goes for all the good schools, really. But you’re right, this is just one metric and doesn’t tell the whole story. I just happened to have it at arm’s length.

Think that birth rates are such that competition for spots starts trending down in the next couple of year.

 

[garyrc70]

Knight Shift and others in the know:

So my son just got his acceptance to ND (not binding). Our approach was since he was applying to some very high end places, why not apply to a couple of highly selective Catholic Universities too. He attends Catholic HS. Still waiting to hear from a couple of Ivy's along with UVA, UNC, Wake.

Any comments on ND appreciated.

 

[garyrc70]

Think that birth rates are such that competition for spots starts trending down in the next couple of year.

Don't forget a % are now international as colleges want international diversity as well...

 

[Knight Shift]

Knight Shift and others in the know:

So my son just got his acceptance to ND (not binding). Our approach was since he was applying to some very high end places, why not apply to a couple of highly selective Catholic Universities too. He attends Catholic HS. Still waiting to hear from a couple of Ivy's along with UVA, UNC, Wake.

Any comments on ND appreciated.

I do not have any comments on Notre Dame. It was not in the mix for my son.
Does he know what he wants to pursue as a major?

 

[RUtix4me]

My final check (ok it’s wire these days) goes in the mail today, three kids, been writing them since 2010....BC, GW, Fairfield. Three years with two kids at once.

I feel like the pig in Babe at the end..that little sigh. Good luck to all, those waiting.

 

[RUTBAY]

TCNJ for early decision (ED) last year was November 31st. It was the only school my daughter applied because they are one of the few schools to offer a teacher of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing. For ED people should have heard already. Not sure about EA. They did say that they got a record number of applications. Don't know about this year.

She did get accepted and really likes it.

 

[mdk01]

My final check (ok it’s wire these days) goes in the mail today, three kids, been writing them since 2010....BC, GW, Fairfield. Three years with two kids at once.

I feel like the pig in Babe at the end..that little sigh. Good luck to all, those waiting.

View embedded media

Congrats! Now you can stop eating corn flakes for dinner.

 

[chrisru99]

Incredible how smart and talented some of your kids are congratulations. How are you guys gonna pay for it? That worries me my son is 8 and so far I’ve saved 19500 for college. Obviously im gonna have to start putting more in soon. I used to think no biggee we will get an academic scholarship and that’s that but I know that is not a realistic goal as the competition is fierce. My daughter attended and graduated from TCNJ and she loved her experience. I was able to have 2 years of her college expenses saved through a 529 when she began. It was a huge help as I was able to make it saving and paying in cash when year 3 and 4 came. TCNJ is awesome and I highly recommend it. Are any of your kids considering 4 years in the military and going to college afterwards? It helped me maturity wise and Rutgers was free for me because of the GI Bill.

 

[RUnTeX]

Here's his list in order of preference: MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Columbia, Penn, UC Berkeley, Rutgers, UCLA. He is going to pursue Computer Science.
The first 3 on that list are next to impossible admits (less than 1 in 15), and many kids with perfect SAT scores and grades get rejected. Cornell, Columbia, Penn, and Berkeley are long shots too. And have heard UCLA Comp Sci admit rate is below 10%.

I'm not sure how it is these days in the way that college applications might ask about anticipated course of study. Why let the fact that he wants to major in CS be an additional obstacle unless it's necessary? I'm assuming in some or all of those colleges, the admission being sought is into an academic unit that represents the Arts & Sciences school of the university. Unless CS is housed in a more narrow academic unit with fewer majors (sometimes it's part of an engineering school, especially at smaller colleges/universities), why bother indicating an intent to pursue CS if it's more competitive, versus applying simply as undecided within the broader A&S umbrella? If applicants are asked to list one or more potential majors, maybe go with a less popular or lower in-demand major within A&S to possibly improve the chances of admission? Once you enroll, I would think you could register freely as you see fit for courses within the A&S offerings.

As it is, colleges in the U.S. have always been quite flexible in allowing students to change majors, so all departmental majors at time of application in HS are likely to see some attrition (especially during first couple years of college).

 

[Knight Shift]

I'm not sure how it is these days in the way that college applications might ask about anticipated course of study. Why let the fact that he wants to major in CS be an additional obstacle unless it's necessary? I'm assuming in some or all of those colleges, the admission being sought is into an academic unit that represents the Arts & Sciences school of the university. Unless CS is housed in a more narrow academic unit with fewer majors (sometimes it's part of an engineering school, especially at smaller colleges/universities), why bother indicating an intent to pursue CS if it's more competitive, versus applying simply as undecided within the broader A&S umbrella? If applicants are asked to list one or more potential majors, maybe go with a less popular or lower in-demand major within A&S to possibly improve the chances of admission? Once you enroll, I would think you could register freely as you see fit for courses within the A&S offerings.

As it is, colleges in the U.S. have always been quite flexible in allowing students to change majors, so all departmental majors at time of application in HS are likely to see some attrition (especially during first couple years of college).

It's funny you mention that. Some college application consultants advise their clients to repackage themselves for less competitive major where their demographic is under represented. That is a really disingenuous thing to do. I don't know if I can find the video again, but they were specifically talking about repackaging an Asian student who wanted to major in CS to apply to Arts and Sciences with an interest in linguistics, going as far as having the kid do work on a linguistics project.

I did not know what I wanted to do until I declared my sophomore year in the College of Engineering. Even after declaring, I thought I should have declared Civil Engineering, but I stuck with Ceramic Engineering, and it worked out.

 

[chrisru99]

It's funny you mention that. Some college application consultants advise their clients to repackage themselves for less competitive major where their demographic is under represented. That is a really disingenuous thing to do. I don't know if I can find the video again, but they were specifically talking about repackaging an Asian student who wanted to major in CS to apply to Arts and Sciences with an interest in linguistics, going as far as having the kid do work on a linguistics project.

I did not know what I wanted to do until I declared my sophomore year in the College of Engineering. Even after declaring, I thought I should have declared Civil Engineering, but I stuck with Ceramic Engineering, and it worked out.

I’m sure the Asian population is the small minority spending money on application consultants.

 

[Knight Shift]

I’m sure the Asian population is the small minority spending money on application consultants.

I don't know about that. Lots of people spend money on consultants to review essays, applications, etc. We decided not to go that route. Our son is who he is, and we did not think a consultant was going to do much to change his profile for admission.

 

[e5fdny]

Don't forget a % are now international as colleges want international diversity as well...

And I assume to have them pay full sticker price too?

 

[chrisru99]

I don't know about that. Lots of people spend money on consultants to review essays, applications, etc. We decided not to go that route. Our son is who he is, and we did not think a consultant was going to do much to change his profile for admission.

Your right lots of people spend money on consultants and I should not assume. I’m just going by the two example that I have seen In my 44 years of life. Growing up in Elizabeth I remember vividly 3 of the top 10 kids being Asian and all 3 going IVY League. I knew 2 of the kids and there families were all about school and nothing else. Both of these 2 kids dads worked 2 full time jobs to make ends meet. There was no consultation going on there first generation college students who wanted to show appreciation by kicking ass in School because it was important to their families. 2nd example is here in New Providence where the one Asian family in the block both parents work blue collar jobs to afford the mortgage and taxes. First kid is a junior at Bucknell and the second kid is a freshmen at the local high school.

 

[RUTBAY]

Regarding the question about why people apply for so many colleges, many times it is due to the fact that you can never predict what the bottom line price may be and applications relatively speaking are easy and cheap.

I have twins. As indicated by my message above one daughter went to TCNJ the other went to a private school. Both did very well academically and great on the SAT but the one who went to the private school killed the SAT. She got a lot of interest from every school she applied and many of the private schools offered very good discounts including Pratt and RISD.

She is going for Graphic Design and the school she really liked was Philly U which has a very good professionally oriented program. Cost for R&B at Philly U is about $65K. After all of the aid (no loans), we are paying about $8K less for her than for her sister the TCNJ student who also got some scholarship money. She is also only one of the two GD students accepted directly into their Honors College. It was well worth sending out the extra applications to see where the bottom line ended up. There were definitely some surprises.

 

[e5fdny]

The Common Application makes this possible too.

And a 1300 seems to be the magic number (for some schools) to really start to get creative for you when it comes to financial/merit based aid.

 

[garyrc70]

I do not have any comments on Notre Dame. It was not in the mix for my son.
Does he know what he wants to pursue as a major?

He's not sure about major. Has applied to some colleges for engineering. Others like ND A&S.

You live at the shore? I have a house in sea girt. but reside in DC.

 

[RU in IM]

So basically what I am reading here, for the most part, is that most of you feel it is OK for your kids to apply to multiple schools and choose the one they feel is best for them. Yet when a H.S. football player decides to go to a school other than RU, that may fit his needs better, he is a piece of crap. Got it!

I’m with you. And by the way, both m y kids only applied to one school... Rutgers. Both graduated, got a great education, and I saved a ton in tuition, etc.

 

[e5fdny]

He's not sure about major. Has applied to some colleges for engineering. Others like ND A&S.

You live at the shore? I have a house in sea girt. but reside in DC.

When you’re back up, wave at the yellow house on Beacon with the Rutgers (and a few other schools) flag.

 

[jtung230]

Knight Shift and others in the know:

So my son just got his acceptance to ND (not binding). Our approach was since he was applying to some very high end places, why not apply to a couple of highly selective Catholic Universities too. He attends Catholic HS. Still waiting to hear from a couple of Ivy's along with UVA, UNC, Wake.

Any comments on ND appreciated.

Everyone guy know that graduated from ND loved it.

I’m sure the Asian population is the small minority spending money on application consultants.

its more about money than race. These consultants make a killing in towns like New Canaan, CT and Chatham, NJ. Both towns have very little Asian population.

 

[Knight Shift]

He's not sure about major. Has applied to some colleges for engineering. Others like ND A&S.

You live at the shore? I have a house in sea girt. but reside in DC.

Oh. Congrats to your son. Admission to Notre Dame is not easy. You must be very proud.

Yes, we live in Wall, near Sea Girt. Sea Girt is a great town.

 

[RU in IM]

Incredible how smart and talented some of your kids are congratulations. How are you guys gonna pay for it? That worries me my son is 8 and so far I’ve saved 19500 for college. Obviously im gonna have to start putting more in soon. I used to think no biggee we will get an academic scholarship and that’s that but I know that is not a realistic goal as the competition is fierce. My daughter attended and graduated from TCNJ and she loved her experience. I was able to have 2 years of her college expenses saved through a 529 when she began. It was a huge help as I was able to make it saving and paying in cash when year 3 and 4 came. TCNJ is awesome and I highly recommend it. Are any of your kids considering 4 years in the military and going to college afterwards? It helped me maturity wise and Rutgers was free for me because of the GI Bill.

Most can’t pay for it; student debt is out of control. My nephew is sitting on $200,000 in student loans, and no, he is not a doctor or attorney. It’s going to take him 20 years to pay it off.

 

[Knight Shift]

Incredible how smart and talented some of your kids are congratulations. How are you guys gonna pay for it? That worries me my son is 8 and so far I’ve saved 19500 for college. Obviously im gonna have to start putting more in soon. I used to think no biggee we will get an academic scholarship and that’s that but I know that is not a realistic goal as the competition is fierce. My daughter attended and graduated from TCNJ and she loved her experience. I was able to have 2 years of her college expenses saved through a 529 when she began. It was a huge help as I was able to make it saving and paying in cash when year 3 and 4 came. TCNJ is awesome and I highly recommend it. Are any of your kids considering 4 years in the military and going to college afterwards? It helped me maturity wise and Rutgers was free for me because of the GI Bill.

TCNJ is an awesome college. My nephew went there for Mechanical Engineering and loved it.
We have been scrimping and saving since each kid was born, and we have enough in their 529s to cover private college. My wife and I were adamant that we did not want our kids to be forced to go to an in state college/university if they had more attractive options. That is not a knock on any state college or university, as we really hope one or both of our sons get into and go to Rutgers.

 

[Knight Shift]

Deferred at MIT. We now find out in mid-March.

 

[RUnTeX]

Deferred at MIT. We now find out in mid-March.

Does a deferral improve, reduce, or keep relatively neutral his chances of admission through the regular applicant pool? I'm guessing reduce or at best neutral but curious what you've heard or been told.

 

[Knight Shift]

Does a deferral improve, reduce, or keep relatively neutral his chances of admission through the regular applicant pool? I'm guessing reduce or at best neutral but curious what you've heard or been told.

That's a good question. I just read this article:
https://www.collegeconfidential.com/articles/were-you-deferred/
On the College Confidential Boards, of 5 kids who posted decisions, all 5 were deferred.

 

[RUnTeX]

TCNJ is an awesome college. My nephew went there for Mechanical Engineering and loved it.
We have been scrimping and saving since each kid was born, and we have enough in their 529s to cover private college. My wife and I were adamant that we did not want our kids to be forced to go to an in state college/university if they had more attractive options. That is not a knock on any state college or university, as we really hope one or both of our sons get into and go to Rutgers.

I suppose CNJ has its merits but for engineering I am going nowhere near there in the state of NJ. Easily Rutgers and if smaller school/campus is desired, then NJIT would also fit the bill for me. I'm sure its reputation for engineering will continue to expand as it sends more engineering grads out into the market, as I'm sure Rowan will too, but talk about playing catch-up.

 

[RUnTeX]

That's a good question. I just read this article:
https://www.collegeconfidential.com/articles/were-you-deferred/
On the College Confidential Boards, of 5 kids who posted decisions, all 5 were deferred.

Gotcha.

 

[e5fdny]

Deferred at MIT. We now find out in mid-March.

Does a deferral improve, reduce, or keep relatively neutral his chances of admission through the regular applicant pool? I'm guessing reduce or at best neutral but curious what you've heard or been told.

It might if the ones who did get in tell the school as soon as possible, “thanks, but no thanks.”

We told that to our son, if you don’t want to go, notify the school as soon as possible so somebody who did get waitlisted/deferred and who really wanted to go there now might get a shot.

 

[NotInRHouse]

When you’re back up, wave at the yellow house on Beacon with the Rutgers (and a few other schools) flag.

Hate to say but in Sea Girt it has to be the only town with the R flag! Villanova seems really popular there.

 

[e5fdny]

Hate to say but in Sea Girt it has to be the only town with the R flag! Villanova seems really popular there.

There are some in Spring Lake too. And there are more than one in both.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Not anywhere close to this to this yet but my thought process is

Ivy or Stanford/MIT type school

Failing that RU/TCNJ

Failing that would consider similarly priced non-Cult publics

A college degree today is what a HS degree was years ago. Unless you get into a truly elite college, go public and save the money for grad school.

 

[NotInRHouse]

There are some in Spring Lake too. And there are more than one in both.

Spring Lake!? They allow flags there? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I will have to keep my eye peeled! The only red I see in Sea Girt is the share of my Rocket Pop at Parker.