OT - Dangers of not vaccinating children
- Thread starter T2Kplus10
- Start date
As a fellow Rutgers fan, I can appreciate being on the side with long odds at any kind of success. But RU has a better shot at winning the natty this year than you being on the right side of this debate.
Who's poking fun? You seek answers from qualified and validated sources, but dismiss that data based on your personal assumptions or anecdotal evidence. There are volumes of studies to indicate no link between vaccines and autism. Here's one of the more recent ones:
https://www.autismspeaks.org/scienc...k-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids
sure but shouldn't people who are so immuno compromised that they can't get a flu shot be responsible enough to not go to a place with 55000 potential petri dishes? When the CDC guesses the wrong strain and the Flu vaccine doesn't work what do we do then? Should we cancel all games? Not fly? Not visit the elderly?
I make the flu vaccine. It helps but it is not the best vaccine out there. Effective rates are ok ~ 60% but flu is a different illness then most others as the disease causing agent changes daily.
agree which is why it drives me crazy when people preach to those who don't want it. Let me inject something into my body that basically has a 50/50 chance of working just in case some 80 year old with lung cancer sits next to me. I get why people are passionate and argue about the big ones but the whole flu, chicken pox, etc etc vaccines shouldn't be mandated or pushed on people.
Honestly, don't get vaccinated. Most likely nothing will happen. On the small (but completely avoidable) chance you do happen to get a loved one sick (or worse), it'll be on you. Many people who are asymptomatic can still spread things. I travel a lot for work and have parents who aren't well. For years I traveled without getting ill (and going unvaccinated). Then I realized I could easily kill my mom with something I picked up on a plane and never realized it. I now get the flu vaccine (plus the flu is awful).
Flu is recommended, chicken pox is recommended. Polio, MMR, DTP, HepB, Hib,
MenACWY are all required.
Heck.. I worked on the menegitis B and do not think it should be required because of the amount of cases in the US. But you know what if my kids get MenB and die or lose limbs I would feel awful. It works, it has side effects. But so does caffeine, I'll take the low probablity risks of an AE with the designer vaccines and hopefully prevent a serious outcome.
MenACWY are all required.
Heck.. I worked on the menegitis B and do not think it should be required because of the amount of cases in the US. But you know what if my kids get MenB and die or lose limbs I would feel awful. It works, it has side effects. But so does caffeine, I'll take the low probablity risks of an AE with the designer vaccines and hopefully prevent a serious outcome.
VK - I agree with your larger point about perhaps pushing too many vaccines on people. There is definitely a balance - I don't need to be vaccinated against bubonic plague - but I'm sure there is a profit motive that needs to be factored in.
Kids deserve the right to go to school without Rusking their lives.
I made smallpox. Got the vaccine it sucks. No one in the public gets it. Same for anthrax. No risk to the public.
Listen, to be 100% honest I'm not anti-vaccine in any way. I'm not looking to win the argument you imply. I'm interested in Thompson and his claims. Simple as that. I'm also not a huge fan of big govt. telling me what to do and measuring themselves.
I also understand the type 2 error problem. We had an argument about an Autism study about siblings last summer on this board. Vaccinated siblings of autistic kids had no higher rate of autism than non-vaccinated siblings of autistic children. This is one of the studies Mike and others point to. However they never mention that the result is based on very small samples where 1 more autistic kid would generate a significant effect.
Hey, I'm not "immune" to lengthy answers laying out support. I do it all the time. Then there are other subjects, those that are long past the need for that kind of interaction. This is one of them, most assuredly. It is interesting to read you digging deep into the conspiracy theorists ideas and then regurgitating their blather, but then every 5 or 6 posts stepping back to say, "Hey, I'm not saying anything here. I'm just sayin." You have every reason to be uncomfortable with it. I mean, I'm just sayin'.
bit of an exaggeration no? How many kids are so immuno compromised that they are going to die and still going to school? do you think it should be mandatory for every US citizen to get a flu shot? chicken pox vaccine?
Nope. Your right to not vaccinate your child ends where my childs right to not have to be in schools and other public places with unvaccinated people begins. You have the right to not vaccinate your kids and keep them in your house 24/7 and that is it.
Really? You give an uninformed opinion about opinions based on your empirical experiences and then you say you don't want to see the statistics? That is the winning arguement structure you are going with?
You constantly brag about being a business owner. I have a feeling you base decisions about your business on statistics and not opinions and certainly not opinions about opinions.
Read what I said above. There are more kids then you would think that are immunocomprised.
As I said I make the flu vaccine it is helpful but not the best life saving Product out there. Everyone in my family gets it because there is only upside no risk. I think chicken pox is helpful but not required as I didn't get the vaccine and only had a mild case of the disease but guess what other have server incidents
I read what you wrote. To be honest, for a guy who makes them for a living I think you have had a very balanced view point on vaccines. That being said, on average about 100 kids under the age of 18 die a year IIRC. I think about 50% of people under age of 18 get the shot? What's the total % of population that gets the shot? Add in the moderate success rate and I'd say not getting a shot really isn't putting kids at risk of dying in school.
Listen. I routinely sit in rooms with members of various vaccine support groups. Sit in the room with parents who kids die if Flu and you hear them say over and over again. This is on me it was preventable. 2 years ago a elementary school .5 miles from my facility had 3 kids die from flu. Is it significant in numbers. No but it was to the family, friends, community to bury children.
Sit with a mom or dad who's child was killed by bacterial menegitis in under 24 hours and see the fear in their eye that it could happen to another loved on.
THIS IS WHY I DO WHAT I DO. I try to be objective but when people talk about fraud, making profit at the expense of other or make uneducated comments...
it pisses me off.
Not a toxicologist but looking at the ingredients in these vaccines there might be a problem. I don't think the majority of people are aware of what toxins are in vaccines.
Vaccine Ingredients — A Comprehensive Guide
Vaccine Ingredients — A Comprehensive Guide
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Go away! I can tell you each and every ingredient in over 15 vaccines. We perform hundreds of quality control tests on each and every batch produced. If something is in the vaccine it has a purpose.
So you are made at the scientist from the CDC that said they committed fraud when reporting results. you be mad at the scientist, I'll be mad at the CDC. Simply that's the difference.
You know I'm sure you are real proud of what you do. But your industry creates the questions frankly. The CDC recommends and measures the effectiveness of what they recommend. This is bad. Scientists regularly move from CDC to industry and back. In this case Thompsons boss that he claims was in on falsifying results on a drug produced by Merke is now an executive there overseeing that very vaccine at Merke. You guys have effectively lobbied congress for the creation of the vaccine court eliminating your liability and making it much harder for Americans to bring a case against a vaccine manufacturer.
So no matter how proud you are of your work or how well you do it, your infustry will always be questioned because of the playing field you guys created.
I love vaccines. I was born in 1968 and thanks to vaccines I grew up never having to worry about getting polio and ending up in an iron lung. I did have to go through chicken pox like all the other kids, but it wasn’t that bad. I also grew up never knowing anyone with autism. Did anyone around my age ever know anyone with autism growing up? I didn’t even know what autism was until “Rainman” was released. Now it’s everywhere. I’m sure all of you know someone with kids that have autism. Probably age 28 or younger. So what changed in 1988? Between 1988 and 1996, the following vaccines were added to the US schedule for children in the first 15 months of life:
- HiB - Improved Hib conjugate vaccine licensed in December 1987, and single dose added to childhood schedule in 1988.
- DTaP - Additional dose at younger age added around 1990.
- HiB - Three additional doses added to schedule in 1991.
- Hep B - Three doses - Added to childhood schedule in 1992.
- Chicken Pox - Approved in 1995, added to schedule in 1996
to say there is no risk with the flu vaccine is disingenuous--and I have also sat with parents and adults who have suffered from getting the flu vaccine
I don't understand why it can't just be stated that there are risks--maybe you think the benefits outweigh the risks, but they exist
I don't understand why it can't just be stated that there are risks--maybe you think the benefits outweigh the risks, but they exist
I used to work in vaccines R&D and a scientific person by nature so I'm pretty much as pro-vaccine as it gets. But all vaccines aren't created equal. I'm a strong supporter of the major / required ones for the obvious reasons, but the lesser ones, flu specifically but can see chickenpox, are a different discussion and I can understand the other side. Don't think it's fair to group everything together. Read something about nuance on these boards once.
PS Ive never gotten a flu shot.
PS Ive never gotten a flu shot.
The flu vaccine is arguably not about the healthy person that gets the shot its about those that can not or do not get the shot and it is about stopping a mass die off before it starts. Everyone knows it is not perfect, but neither is Homeland Security, the FBI or the CIA but we still seem to spend plenty of money on those programs to save lives and keep our country upright.
I read the article, but personally I agree with the majority of people in the comments dept
not saying the ingredients you put in vaccines
don't have a purpose. I question the safety of injecting some of these "purposeful" toxic ingredients in an infant or toddler.
I'd imagine that there are certain quantities that make them safe - and I trust that the scientists have determined what that level is. The iron in a multivitamin would be considered toxic at certain levels. HCl is added to many drugs to aid in digestion. Never had a problem with it.
Actually most ingredients are removed in the process of manufacturing. Next time you drink out of your plastic water bottle just remember it's basic ingredient is crude oil.
So what you're saying is that we should leave science and medicine to scientists and doctors, rather than hosts from a day time talk show?
Ummm actually I think everyone is entitled to their own ideas and they should back it up with facts. Not BS
That's kind of what's frustrating... People don't know where to go to get facts or how to confirm what they found on the internet just ain't so.
Mike I found the analysis I did on this study. Would you think a study that is conducted to measure if children with older siblings that have ASD are more susceptible to ASD after the MMR vaccine is really legitimate if to conclude significance based upon the sample sizes the incident rate had to increase by 150%?
Just asking. The incident rate for the high risk group is 6.95% to start with. Anything less than 10% incident rate is concluded not significant.
Don't you also find it odd that in both groups 22% + of the ASD kids seem to disappear from the analysis but none of the non-ASD kids. I wonder what effect that has on the results.
Are you sure that it is not genetic related since you are talking about siblings who share most of the same genes with each other. A better analysis would be identical twins with and without the vaccine.
The point is that anything would be a better analysis. The sample sizes are incredibly small.
for those of you that don't think the CDC does it's job Look up flumist today it was pulled off the market due to poor efficacy
It baffles my mind that is allowed to be on as long as it was with efficacy rates are lower than 10%
It baffles my mind that is allowed to be on as long as it was with efficacy rates are lower than 10%
I'm late to this, but if you really, truly believe that vaccines cause autism, you are brain dead.
Hi
GUNS AND BUTTER
1) Trust in the scientist is a luxury parents of an autistic child don't have.
2)Iron from a vitamin (like mercury from tuna) goes through your digestive system, not injected in your veins. It is easier for your body to eliminate the toxin when digested.
3) How much time do doctors spend in med. school learning about vaccinnes? According to Alan Phillips not much.
I thought this was a pretty informative piece.
Vaccines: Threads of Corruption with Alan Phillips Attorney Alan Phillips, whose practice specializes in vaccine exemption law, lays out the case for legislative activism to counter the wave of coercive state legislation mandating extensive vaccination of children, and the elimination of choice. The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act freed the vaccine industry of accountability … Continued
DOWNLOAD
Guns and Butter – December 30, 2015
GUNS AND BUTTER
1) Trust in the scientist is a luxury parents of an autistic child don't have.
2)Iron from a vitamin (like mercury from tuna) goes through your digestive system, not injected in your veins. It is easier for your body to eliminate the toxin when digested.
3) How much time do doctors spend in med. school learning about vaccinnes? According to Alan Phillips not much.
I thought this was a pretty informative piece.
Vaccines: Threads of Corruption with Alan Phillips Attorney Alan Phillips, whose practice specializes in vaccine exemption law, lays out the case for legislative activism to counter the wave of coercive state legislation mandating extensive vaccination of children, and the elimination of choice. The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act freed the vaccine industry of accountability … Continued
DOWNLOAD
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