I just saw this posted locally today. I could get in to this in large patches, but maybe just enough cut to resemble civilization. Of course, this will turn into needing some expensive prairie grass replant and wildflower over seeding every year.
OT: Eternal Lawn Care Thread
- Thread starter Knight Shift
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I believe @koleszar uses some type of prairie mix on his property. I might be interested in doing something like that. Perhaps he could enlighten us with some details..... cost, species, how tall does it grow, what does it look like throughout the 4 seasons. Thanks!
We use Jonathan Green's Pasture Mixture. I think you can get it online but not in stores. We go direct to Jonathan Green. They'll actually make you whatever you want.
-One their Professional store is real close to us in Farmingdale(we have an account makes it cheaper)
- Two they're very helpful and knowledgeable, I take soil results right to him and he tells me what I need to do.
- Three it has what we need for animals. It's not easy to find pasture mix in NJ.
-It's 100% endophyte free, endophytes can make your animals sick. Most fescues(lawn seed) have them, there's only a select few which don't. It contains, Annual ryegrass, Perennial ryegrass, Orchard grass, Timothy grass, Kentucky bluegrass and White clover.
-Online cost is about $105 for a 50lb bag. They say with a new pasture that's does about 22,000 sq. ft.. I think that's way too light, we did 80,000 sq. ft. the last go around and used 7 bags.
-How tall does it grow, without animals or mowing, hay tall.
-It actually stays a light green in winter and doesn't totally die out.
It's a process though. I'm doing acres of land at a time, so it takes seasons of continually working the land. The seed doesn't have all those water saver coatings or whatever they put in there so without the ability to irrigate it's tough.
Sprayed a mixture of Prodiamine and RGS today. My second app of Prodiamine as I am doing a split app. My first time using RGS bio simulant. Hopefully it makes a difference
Thanks.
I'm always intrigued by your posts about your land. I watch a lot of stuff on youtube about regenerative agriculture. I'm just a humble backyard gardener, but I do try to put those practices to use, and have been very successful since adopting these methods. It also brings tremendous self satisfaction seeing my soil improve year after year simply by mimicking what mother nature has been doing for millions of years. And honestly, it's so much easier too. It's nice to never have to pick up a shovel or manage weeds. All the while, I'm growing nutrient dense produce for my family. Regenerative agriculture > Organic.
Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms, Virginia has become my most recent favorite. I thought of him as I was reading your post. While raising his animals, he actually puts them to work managing his land. Using portable electric fencing, he only keeps his animals on portions of the land for short, specific time periods, then moves them. This method mimics the ancient migrating herds that built the rich soils of the midwest, where the herbivores would hit the land hard for short periods of time, then move on to have the land recover for long periods of time. The trick is to get just the right amount of animal disturbance on the land so the plants and soil regenerate quickly. This is where I thought of you: He discovered that re-seeding an area is no longer necessary with the proper amount of animal disturbance, followed by a rest period. The animal disturbance actually awakens an ancient seed bed of native perennials. No irrigation necessary either. Incorporating animals onto the land using this method is proven to be the fastest way to build/grow soil.
Anywho, thanks for sharing and hopefully reading my rant. Check out Joel on YouTube if you haven't already. He's got a wealth of knowledge and has a big personality.
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We have 5 fenced off pastures and a fruit orchard about 3/4 acre. 3 pastures are currently established. Once the other 2 are, we will be going to the rotational grazing method. I'm currently at the point where we do have to reseed and fertilizer(Ocenagro). Just not enough free fertilizer yet. But eventually this is the plan.
I watched the Joel Salatin video you had posted it for me to see on here a year or so ago. My wife learned these practices while at Cook. This Farm Odessey is the only reason I learned all this, as I had to quickly educate myself on everything from insects to organics to pesticides. It's tough trying to make nature work for you and it's a lot of trial and error.
My lawn is growing well. However, I'm starting to get clover - sometimes, in areas where the lawn is growing well and some in areas where I have some bare/patchy areas. My question is can I start putting down clover-killer now? (That's a thing, right? Clover killer?). Or, do I have to wait until later in the season or next year? I'm particularly concerned about putting something like that down in areas where the lawn is doing well. At the same time, I don't want to see the clover take over (now that my lawn is finally doing well)!
Thanks, in advance.
Thanks, in advance.
you can put down Ortho CCO
My POA is thriving in this "cold" weather. 🥶For all the Poa fans, this is the worst part of my lawn that took a beating with fungus last year, check out the three beautiful patches of Poa :
Yea, Poa annua and Poa Trivialis thrive in cool and damp weather. It’s triv in your picture. I have some too, unfortunately.
I'm taking a liking to my POA patches. I may build igloos around them to preserve them through the summer.
What time of year do you apply the Tenacity for annual bluegrass? I’ve been using a product called Prograss and applying it Oct 1 and Nov 1st. It can applied after overseeing but it’s terribly expensive.
Thanks!
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Has anybody tried Blindside or Atrazine to kill and prevent POA Annua? My lawn is a TTTF Johnathan Green Black Beauty Ultra mix and was wondering if either of those herbicides would be safe for the lawn and still wipeout current POA and prevent future germination.
Poa annua germinates late summer around here so I apply tenacity (a.i. is Mesotrione) late august or early September. I sometimes apply it in the spring when it thrives (around April or early May) to kill it but it takes several applications fairly close together while staying within the allowable per application rate and total per year limit. You can seed with it too, although the protection is only about 30 days (so you can do a subsequent app if needed.). Teneacity isn’t very expensive and a little bottle goes a loooooong way. You’re right, Prograss is great but very expensive.
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Will Tenacity work on Poa Trivialis?Poa annua germinates late summer around here so I apply tenacity (a.i. is Mesotrione) late august or early November. I sometimes apply it in the spring when it thrives (around April or early May) to kill it but it takes several applications fairly close together while staying within the allowable per application rate and total per year limit. You can seed with it too, although the protection is only about 30 days (so you can do a subsequent app if needed.). Teneacity isn’t very expensive and a little bottle goes a loooooong way. You’re right, Prograss is great but very expensive.
Unfortunately, not really. I have had some very limited success with it but nothing to jump for joy about. To my knowledge there are no selective herbicides for residential use that are effective against Poa Trivialis. Poacure and Velocity are effective but are only labeled for use at sod farms and golf courses. Plus, they are both very expensive if you could find them. I have dug up triv or been very careful with Roundup (literally painting each blade.) I’ve also pulled some but you have to get the roots and stolons.
Let me add that I plant a dozen or so 12” pots indoors a couple times a year with KBG and use that to patch problem areas. Yea, people say I need to get a life…
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So due to a grub infestation I had my front lawn ripped up and reseeded last spring. Came up fine and lasted well through the summer heat. It did actually develop a rust fungus late in the summer which I wasn't happy about but it seemed to dissipate. Regular chemical applications through the year (contracted with same company that did the planting), aerated and over seeded the front and back in the fall.
Really not happy so far this year... I know temps have been tough (njweather.org says soil temp is still only 55 degrees) but my front yard is looking kinda rough with hardly any growth so far this spring, have only needed to mow once so far. Backyard is growing like crazy.
Whats more, I contracted with the same company (does a majority of lawns in my neighborhood) for a chemical program this year - have already made three monthly installments but have received zero service. Called to inquire about this last week and was told that "its still too cold" to fertilize. To be fair, I am aware of the soil temps like I said, and I haven't noticed any of my neighbors fertilizing yet - but I'm starting to feel like I'm really gonna need to get on them, and probably still won't be satisfied...
Just curious on what others have done so far and any thoughts
PS - If my Dad was still around (RU Golf Course), I certainly wouldn't be in this situation... Also, I'm not the type of psycho (like some of you) to be going around digging Poa Triv up - just want green.
Really not happy so far this year... I know temps have been tough (njweather.org says soil temp is still only 55 degrees) but my front yard is looking kinda rough with hardly any growth so far this spring, have only needed to mow once so far. Backyard is growing like crazy.
Whats more, I contracted with the same company (does a majority of lawns in my neighborhood) for a chemical program this year - have already made three monthly installments but have received zero service. Called to inquire about this last week and was told that "its still too cold" to fertilize. To be fair, I am aware of the soil temps like I said, and I haven't noticed any of my neighbors fertilizing yet - but I'm starting to feel like I'm really gonna need to get on them, and probably still won't be satisfied...
Just curious on what others have done so far and any thoughts
PS - If my Dad was still around (RU Golf Course), I certainly wouldn't be in this situation... Also, I'm not the type of psycho (like some of you) to be going around digging Poa Triv up - just want green.
Unless you live in northwest Sussex County (and even there), too cold to fertilize sounds weird. Pre-emergent is supposed to be applied when forsythias bloom, and we are well past that in Monmouth County. We got our third application today, and I believe our first one in early March. Have mowed twice, and lawn is greening up nicely.
Agreed that it sounded fishy, the Forsythias in my backyard are well past bloom and was aware of the timing with pre-ermerg. I guess I just figured I'd give them the benefit of the doubt given it was the first time calling this year and I haven't noticed much activity of the sort on neighbors properties either.
Time to become a pain in the ass I suppose...
I don’t think blindside is for sale in NJ. Also, I don’t believe it’s labeled for Poa annua control. I haven’t used Atrazine. It’s labeled to control Poa annua but it’s for use in warm season grasses, not cool season.
Cool season grasses grow at soil temps lower than 55. I’ve cut my lawn 4 or 5 times and it’s been growing. It’s not too cold to fertilize, though I don’t until late May. They are telling you that cause it’s a busy time and everyone wants things done around March-April.
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Fertilizer is getting ridiculously expensive, due to supply chain & other crises. The company may have limited supply & is trying to slow-walk your applications. That's pretty crappy, as throwing down a bunch of nitrogen will perk your lawn up.
My opinion only; I have no inside info.
That was a thought of mine also - was in HD recently and saw a $40 bag last year was now $90. Still shitty on their part regardless...
Not a bad price, but the bag rate is like 45lbs/3000 sq ft. For a farm, that's going to need like a pallet full. And that's for 5-5-0 (or was 2 years ago). I like OceanGro in the summer. Early season & late season I go synthetic to wake it up & get it thick.
Whoops now that I didn’t know. Thank you. Should have opened up the spreader a little more. I only used 16 bags on 80,000 sq. ft. Quite a bit out of the ballpark on that one. O well we’ll do a fall seeding and get the right amount next time.
But I’m done till then. This last rush to get trees down, graded for fences to go in, regraded once they fvcked everything up, then seeded fertilized and raked in by the end of March killed me. It was more than a month of Saturdays and Sundays.
Good evening gents, I know its hot as hell and will be tomorrow as well but i have some stubborn weeds that wont go away. I was thinking of applying a 2nd batch of weed & feed on tues/wed as the high will be in the low 70s. I applied my initial batch last week of march so that shouldn't be an issue. My question is it to late in the spring for me to apply????? I don't see any unusual hot weather on the horizon...
Overall my lawn is still terrible, but the clover I planted did great. The grass didn't do as well. Lots of excellent progress but a loooong way to go.
I also applied compost extract to some of the worst areas and the improvement over areas where I didn't apply it is remarkable. Its really thick and healthy in those areas. I'm going to keep working on improving the soil and plant again in the fall.
I also applied compost extract to some of the worst areas and the improvement over areas where I didn't apply it is remarkable. Its really thick and healthy in those areas. I'm going to keep working on improving the soil and plant again in the fall.
My lawn has been taken over by clover...ok, not my lawn as I rent this house but we still like a nice lawn. any suggestions on getting rid of the clover? Not looking for anything crazy or expensive, as I said, just renting. Lawn was horrible 2 years ago when I first moved here, very acid soil that had not been fertilized in 20 years. We had it fertilized, fixed the sprinkler system and had the lawn seeded. did great first 2 years but like I said- clover has taken over at least 50%
Ortho CCO (triclopyr). You can get it at Home Depot or Lowes. It’s inexpensive. Follow the directions (my neighbor used twice what she should have and stressed her lawn.
Clover is your lawn and soil's best friend. Great for pollinators. Intoxicating aroma. What's not to love? Don't be brainwashed by fertilizer company propaganda.
We’ve gone down this road dozens of times. Some people want to cultivate a lawn with organic and/or prudent use of synthetic fertilizer and responsible use of select herbicides and fungicides; others want to go 100% organic/natural. I have no problem with either path, nor do I fault a hybrid approach. You seem to see only your position as “correct.” How about letting people do what they want as well as they use amendments responsibly…. This is my last post trying to explain this…
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Clover isn't grass. I am raising grass on my lawn, this was a very strange response...Maybe it is just a NNJ thing to have a beautiful lawn.
There's a rumor that this is a picture of your lawn. Do you have the Tesla logo confused with clover?
---This is just some friendly ribbing. Hope you think it's funny. If not, sorry.
If all of your synthetic, toxic chemicals stayed on your property, that would be your own business. But, unfortunately, that's not the case since all of those chemicals end up in our shared local watersheds. Nuking our soils with synthetics also reduces the soils carbon capture ability, and reduces pollinator #s. Again, a shared result.
Thanks for the advice, but I'll continue to post. There may be newcomers who are unaware of the benefits of clover or the impact that synthetics have on our shared environment.
Be the first on your block and an influencer, go retro style, bring clover back in vogue. Clover was once considered a part of a healthy vibrant lawn. But Broadleaf herbicide companies' products killed clover. This was bad for business, so they decided to tell you that clover is ugly and should be eliminated to sell more product. We know you've got the influence, start the revolution on your block and don't be a pawn to the man. 😁
Just having some fun. But that's really what happened, companies changed people's way of thinking to sell more product. But hey, it's your lawn you do what you want, you paid for it.
the reality of it here in Franklin Lakes- if your lawn isn't perfectly landscaped, it costs you money.
If I were a bit more rural - I would most likely have 1/4 to 1/2 acre perfect landscapped and let whatever else I had be a bit more natural.
Your recap is 100% correct. Once upon a time, grass seed mixes contained clover seed for its nitrogen fixing ability. Growing up, everyone had clover in their lawn. Our soils and watersheds used to be healthier too.
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