RUWBB 2017-18: “Honor the Past” OR “Look to the Future”

[RC66]

For argument’s sake: assume the 2017-18 roster has enough talent, whomever the coach, to be dancing in March 2018.

Which of these do we choose?

Honor the Past: we owe it to CVS to let her go out on a better note than 2016-17.

OR

Look to the Future: give a new coach a first year and second year roster that has enough talent so that she or he can start with a couple of winning seasons and recruit and build from there.

 

[RC66]

What a cruel choice to have to make.

Reluctantly, I chose “Look to the Future.”

I have great respect, admiration, and affection for CVS. Her teams have given me some great times at the RAC. Nothing, ever, has made me more proud of my school then her and her team’s reaction to the Imus comments. If I was a parent of a student athlete, I’d want my daughter to play for a coach, like CVS, dedicated to making her not just a ball player, but a woman of substance.

But, a coach’s covenant with her players, her fans, and her school is not just to be admirable, but to win.

Clearly the program has been in a major decline…

-since we had a team full of MacDonald’s all-americans who washed their own uniforms more than were coached into working as a team to win games;

-since players like April, who broke all her state’s scoring records, forgot how to shoot in Piscataway;

-since Aliyyah Handford, a hidden gem from Matee’s NJ high school, who many here spotted and felt we should have been able to get wound up at St. John’s;

-since we’ve had big after big who don’t player develop at all;

-since Brooklyn’s father saw what was happening and told her to get herself home to Texas;

-since Daisha Simmons left to go to Alabama and then Seton Hall (why the hell did that happen, I’d love to ask her);

-since Carlene left and we seemed to forget how to breakdown and game-plan for the specific strengths and weaknesses of teams;

-since a team like last year’s with wnba, final-four talent couldn’t find chemistry;

-etc.

Ultimately it comes down to this. (Given that often my wife accuses me of being a half-empty instead of half-full type.)

What happens if we give CVS the stronger roster next year and, well, you know…

Better a new start with a new coach.

Even if she doesn't recognize it herself, it is Emeritus time for our beloved coach.

 

[Knight Time Fan]

I won't vote or opine (much) but I want to comment on your list.

What it shows, I think, is that we have not done well recruiting the right players at the right times, and perhaps not managed them as well as we might have. I will continue to state that Pope leaving was not a bad thing, but having her come in the first place - thinking you were going to teach discipline and have her play within your system - was just a wrong idea. There are 2 theories I hear touted - you recruit players to play within your system or you make your system match your players. Obviously, most coaches (including CVS) fall somewhere in the middle, but she leans to needing players to work within her system (and culture) and that is where I think we have struggled.

As I have pointed out in numerous posts, there is a reality that is not directly that a game has passed someone by, but rather that it becomes more difficult as time goes on. For example, improved (for various reasons) offenses are more difficult to shut down with superior defense than they once were - and that defense was what always gave RU a "fighting chance" against a better team. Now, between recruiting and the above, not so much. And all of this feeds into increased difficulty in recruiting.

As I have said many times, I am not taking sides in your poll. I think the team would most likely perform better next year under Vivian (I have said this as well) but have no idea thereafter. Obviously, CVS is retiring sometime soon.

 

[ScarletDave]

Next year we are gonna have a great team. I mean really good. The circumstances of this year are unfortunate but not to worry. Winning cures all and next year we are going to have a lot of it.

 

[nirrad]

I say that the talent that is coming in next year, the experience these players are getting this year, and the transfers that are sitting out this year equals a much better next year!

 

[richthedentist]

So what does that mean next year 500 or barely above and then we lose how many and we are in the same boat!! As said above we brought in 5 mcDonalds all-americans and did nothing with that class. Plain and simple we have to look to the future and CVS has got to go so we can move the program forward. Each year she stays puts us back 2-3 more years

 

[MADHAT1]

I won't vote because I believe we need to honor the past accomplishments along with taking care of the future of the RU WBB program

So will just say ( honoring past) I'll be giving the benefit of doubt that next year, under CVS, will be better because of how the team was, under her leadership, in the past and have no objection if Hobbs brings Vivian back for the 2017-18 season

(Looking at future) if the 2017-18 season is not one I feel satisfied with, I'll be agreeing Stringer must ( retire on her own or forced out anyway possible) go for the sake of the program and wanting Hobbs to hire a new HC for the 2018-19 season.

 

[dmd78]

I won't vote or opine (much) but I want to comment on your list.

What it shows, I think, is that we have not done well recruiting the right players at the right times, and perhaps not managed them as well as we might have. I will continue to state that Pope leaving was not a bad thing, but having her come in the first place - thinking you were going to teach discipline and have her play within your system - was just a wrong idea. There are 2 theories I hear touted - you recruit players to play within your system or you make your system match your players. Obviously, most coaches (including CVS) fall somewhere in the middle, but she leans to needing players to work within her system (and culture) and that is where I think we have struggled.

As I have pointed out in numerous posts, there is a reality that is not directly that a game has passed someone by, but rather that it becomes more difficult as time goes on. For example, improved (for various reasons) offenses are more difficult to shut down with superior defense than they once were - and that defense was what always gave RU a "fighting chance" against a better team. Now, between recruiting and the above, not so much. And all of this feeds into increased difficulty in recruiting.

As I have said many times, I am not taking sides in your poll. I think the team would most likely perform better next year under Vivian (I have said this as well) but have no idea thereafter. Obviously, CVS is retiring sometime soon.

I think that, historically, CVS has recruited players that fit her system. I think that's what most coaches do. She seems to have lost her way for awhile, recruiting-wise, with that "fab five" class. Meanwhile, I agree that the expanding talent pool has given other teams a chance to catch up. In general, that's probably good for the women's game, but it hasn't been good for us.

 

[RutgersDon]

So what does that mean next year 500 or barely above and then we lose how many and we are in the same boat!! As said above we brought in 5 mcDonalds all-americans and did nothing with that class. Plain and simple we have to look to the future and CVS has got to go so we can move the program forward. Each year she stays puts us back 2-3 more years

Not soon enough.Its over.

 

[RutgersDon]

What a cruel choice to have to make.

Reluctantly, I chose “Look to the Future.”

I have great respect, admiration, and affection for CVS. Her teams have given me some great times at the RAC. Nothing, ever, has made me more proud of my school then her and her team’s reaction to the Imus comments. If I was a parent of a student athlete, I’d want my daughter to play for a coach, like CVS, dedicated to making her not just a ball player, but a woman of substance.

But, a coach’s covenant with her players, her fans, and her school is not just to be admirable, but to win.

Clearly the program has been in a major decline…

-since we had a team full of MacDonald’s all-americans who washed their own uniforms more than were coached into working as a team to win games;

-since players like April, who broke all her state’s scoring records, forgot how to shoot in Piscataway;

-since Aliyyah Handford, a hidden gem from Matee’s NJ high school, who many here spotted and felt we should have been able to get wound up at St. John’s;

-since we’ve had big after big who don’t player develop at all;

-since Brooklyn’s father saw what was happening and told her to get herself home to Texas;

-since Daisha Simmons left to go to Alabama and then Seton Hall (why the hell did that happen, I’d love to ask her);

-since Carlene left and we seemed to forget how to breakdown and game-plan for the specific strengths and weaknesses of teams;

-since a team like last year’s with wnba, final-four talent couldn’t find chemistry;

-etc.

Ultimately it comes down to this. (Given that often my wife accuses me of being a half-empty instead of half-full type.)

What happens if we give CVS the stronger roster next year and, well, you know…Great

Better a new start with a new coach.

Even if she doesn't recognize it herself, it is Emeritus time for our beloved coach.

 

[knightfan2000]

As much as Stringer is struggling I'm not convinced that we can find a proven or even an up and coming coach that will be much better - we don't have a lot to sell right now. I'm also not sure all those transfers on the bench are going to make us much better - the return of Scaife should help but I have no reason to believe the rest of them are even very good. Why did they transfer in the first place? Our history with transfers is not good. I also would not be surprised to see some transfers OUT at the end of this season. The entire team and coaching staff looks pretty miserable, including Stringer - and her constant berating of players is not helping matters. We are simply not in a good place right now and I don't seen any good way out of it.

 

[bac2therac]

Next year we are gonna have a great team. I mean really good. The circumstances of this year are unfortunate but not to worry. Winning cures all and next year we are going to have a lot of it.

proof of this...great team? the team will be better. Scaife if she comes back healthy will improve the team but that does not mean all the same troubles exist. So the team goes 17-13 and misses the NCAA tourney again..then what, Scaife gone and team goes back 500 with dried up recruiting

 

[bac2therac]

I think that, historically, CVS has recruited players that fit her system. I think that's what most coaches do. She seems to have lost her way for awhile, recruiting-wise, with that "fab five" class. Meanwhile, I agree that the expanding talent pool has given other teams a chance to catch up. In general, that's probably good for the women's game, but it hasn't been good for us.

she had Laney, Scaife, Copper, Hollivay and Davis on the same team they struggled down the stretch and killed their seeding which put them in the 8/9 game..big underacheivement. then with Scaife, Copper, Hollivay they did not even make the tourney never getting their act together. Those players probably just as talented as anyone in the Big 10 besides Maryland..what was the issue then..and CVS was complaining about not being able to recruit because of facilities yet she still had more talent than almost everyone in the Big 10

 

[Turtle31]

Next year we are gonna have a great team. I mean really good. The circumstances of this year are unfortunate but not to worry. Winning cures all and next year we are going to have a lot of it.

Is this a serious post or a troll comment? Absolutely nothing points to a "great or really good" team next year except extreme optimism.

 

[RutgersDon]

She has lost it.

 

[NickyNewark51]

What a cruel choice to have to make.

Reluctantly, I chose “Look to the Future.”

I have great respect, admiration, and affection for CVS. Her teams have given me some great times at the RAC. Nothing, ever, has made me more proud of my school then her and her team’s reaction to the Imus comments. If I was a parent of a student athlete, I’d want my daughter to play for a coach, like CVS, dedicated to making her not just a ball player, but a woman of substance.

But, a coach’s covenant with her players, her fans, and her school is not just to be admirable, but to win.

Clearly the program has been in a major decline…

-since we had a team full of MacDonald’s all-americans who washed their own uniforms more than were coached into working as a team to win games;

-since players like April, who broke all her state’s scoring records, forgot how to shoot in Piscataway;

-since Aliyyah Handford, a hidden gem from Matee’s NJ high school, who many here spotted and felt we should have been able to get wound up at St. John’s;

-since we’ve had big after big who don’t player develop at all;

-since Brooklyn’s father saw what was happening and told her to get herself home to Texas;

-since Daisha Simmons left to go to Alabama and then Seton Hall (why the hell did that happen, I’d love to ask her);

-since Carlene left and we seemed to forget how to breakdown and game-plan for the specific strengths and weaknesses of teams;

-since a team like last year’s with wnba, final-four talent couldn’t find chemistry;

-etc.

Ultimately it comes down to this. (Given that often my wife accuses me of being a half-empty instead of half-full type.)

What happens if we give CVS the stronger roster next year and, well, you know…

Better a new start with a new coach.

Even if she doesn't recognize it herself, it is Emeritus time for our beloved coach.

Epiphany Prince leaving like and when she did was the dagger IMO.....WE'VE NEVER BEEN THE SAME SINCE...the RU screw again...at least as lazy as THERESA Grentz got she got more out of less...I loved the way she found Sue Wicks In a LI playground passing by....she was an amazing freak of Nature...

 

[wngarbarini]

A .500 team next year.

 

[bac2therac]

Epiphany Prince leaving like and when she did was the dagger IMO.....WE'VE NEVER BEEN THE SAME SINCE...the RU screw again...at least as lazy as THERESA Grentz got she got more out of less...I loved the way she found Sue Wicks In a LI playground passing by....she was an amazing freak of Nature...

TG is a good comparison, she overacheived given some of the talent she had, but the game was changing so by the time we got to 93/94 her recruiting had dried up and the womens game was at another level. It was time for her to go but at least she sensed it,. CVS following a similar path but she will take the program to an all time low this year

 

[MADHAT1]

Grentz, left RU after 19 seasons to take the head coaching job at Illinois.
One of the reasons was she wanted the same salary as the RU MBB HC ( Wenzel)was making.
The writing on the wall was Theresa feeling unappreciated along with knowing Rutgers wasn't going to support her program like it needed to be to remain as competitive as it had been.
TG probably would have stayed if offered the salary her replacement (CVS) received, which was higher than Wenzel's and Graber's o_O

this ( from 1995) gives some insight on why :
Grentz leaves Rutgers for Illini
>

by dgell » Thu, 18 May 1995 04:00:00


writes:
Quote:
>Is this true? Why is she leaving?
Officially, she's probably leaving because Illinois gave her a better deal
than Rutgers did (she's recently been a little unhappy that despite her success
here she was still not being paid as well as the men's coach who, as you know,
hasn't been as successful) and she was ready for a change
Unofficially, there were problems between her and Kristen Somogyi this past
season. She was supposed to be the starting point guard this year, and all
the big deal was made about her, but she had an attitude problem, and Grentz
sat her down and rarely used her. Supposedly someone with some "pull" in
the University wants Somogyi to start... <

That is close to what a lot of longtime RU WBB fans heard at the time.
Also Grentz probably felt the RU WBB program might not not being able to compete with the support it was getting from Gruninger , so left for the Illinois
WBB HC position .

 

[BeKnighted]

Since it's not up to us, it doesn't really matter. That said, I'd give CVS the year with Tyler back. My reasoning is that a new coach is going to blow everything up, essentially, and if the team is likely to be decent (that's the premise above), I'd prefer for Tyler to be the leader of a decent team, instead of being a one-woman show on a team that's in flux.

 

[RizwranIII]

So what does that mean next year 500 or barely above and then we lose how many and we are in the same boat!! As said above we brought in 5 mcDonalds all-americans and did nothing with that class. Plain and simple we have to look to the future and CVS has got to go so we can move the program forward. Each year she stays puts us back 2-3 more years

Spot on!

 

[RizwranIII]

Is this a serious post or a troll comment? Absolutely nothing points to a "great or really good" team next year except extreme optimism.

I agree w you about your basic point, but the troll comment is not cool.

 

[RutgersDon]

Since it's not up to us, it doesn't really matter. That said, I'd give CVS the year with Tyler back. My reasoning is that a new coach is going to blow everything up, essentially, and if the team is likely to be decent (that's the premise above), I'd prefer for Tyler to be the leader of a decent team, instead of being a one-woman show on a team that's in flux.

One good player will make a difference say 5 games.That will not be aturn around from 30 point losses to bad teamsAt 700k thats too costly..

 

[BeKnighted]

One good player will make a difference say 5 games.That will not be aturn around from 30 point losses to bad teamsAt 700k thats too costly..

The premise is that the team would be reasonably good, so I answered in the context of that premise.

 

[RutgersDon]

The premise is that the team would be reasonably good, so I answered in the context of that premise.

A 700k hc and a .500 winning % after being .250 winning % is not good enough.

 

[MADHAT1]

A 700k hc and a .500 winning % after being .250 winning % is not good enough.

the 700k is because of Stringers success overall as a HC along with her HOF status .
That just is a petty excuse to bash her.
As for having a .500 winning percentage , even with this years terrible play included that's not ( if you meant B1G conference play it's a little worse with 3-9 record this season included) Last 7 seasons before this >6-19 (.315)season . B1G >3-9 (.333)
2010–11 Rutgers 20–13 11–5 4th NCAA Second Round
2011–12 Rutgers 20–13 10–6 6th NCAA First round
2012–13 Rutgers 16–14 7–9 T-9th
Rutgers Scarlet Knights (American Athletic Conference) (2013–2014)
2013–14 Rutgers 28–9 12–6 4th WNIT Champions
Rutgers Scarlet Knights (Big Ten Conference) (2014–present)
2014–15 Rutgers 23–10 12–6 5th NCAA Second Round
2015–16 Rutgers 19–15 7–9 8th WNIT Second Round

Complaining about Vivian's salary seems like a petty move to me, but there are probably others that feel the same as you about her being overpaid.
I just happen to think that's the wrong complaint and not a good reason to want CVS replaced.

As for your stats, again I feel you're not making a valid point using stats , that to me, are wrong. Please let me know if I'm mistaken about your statics being wrong by showing how you figured those stats out.

For you and those who feel CVS isn't meeting your expectations of having the RU WBB program one of the best and this season proves she must be replaced!
Those points are worthy of discussion , in my opinion, as long as we stick to the facts and not try to make things look worse than they really are.

This season's performance does make it hard to defend Vivian Stringer , but past seasons and the lack of support, poor facilities and CVS keeping the program from total destruction by being a name brand to some recruits and her coaching ability ( 2 years removed from Dancing) makes for a fairly good reason for Vivian to be brought back by Hobbs.
But this season could be considered a good reason for Hobbs to replace Stringer with someone else next year.
I'll not whine if C.Vivian Stringer is replaced by Hobbs , nor cry if she's brought back.
But will whine, cry and carry on if I feel Hobbs hires CVS' replacement >" on the cheap"

 

[RC66]

Since it's not up to us, it doesn't really matter. That said, I'd give CVS the year with Tyler back. My reasoning is that a new coach is going to blow everything up, essentially, and if the team is likely to be decent (that's the premise above), I'd prefer for Tyler to be the leader of a decent team, instead of being a one-woman show on a team that's in flux.

Although I voted the other way, this is, IMO, the best argument given for giving CVS next year.

 

[bac2therac]

its not petty to question 700K salary for a coach going 6-24 this year and actual attendence and interest in the program at dreadful levels

 

[MADHAT1]

its not petty to question 700K salary for a coach going 6-24 this year and actual attendence and interest in the program at dreadful levels

over the years and with the accomplishments CVS has makes pointing out her salary as a reason she should go a petty complaint in my book..
But I can understand those wanting reasons to claim Vivian Stringer must go will not think of anything used against CVS as petty, if it serves their agenda.

The 6-24 would be a good reason, but claiming RU has a 6-24 record on 2/14/2017 is petty and a lie because the RU WBB record is 6-19 at this point of the season with 4 regular season games to go and a valid reason to attack her..
But you can hope RU doesn't win another game this season so your BS record holds true, though most RU WBB fans won't share that hope, even the ones that want her gone.

Shame you couldn't just use current record, because that is good enough ( bad enough?) to say Stringer should be replaced based on this year's record and how you feel about the future under her leadership .
But you decided to act petty and claim a record that isn't a valid one ( at this point of the season) to make it look worse.
Don't say your 6-24 record will come true to justify what you claimed, just say you hope it will so you can claim you knew.

 

[Turtle31]

I agree w you about your basic point, but the troll comment is not cool.

Riz, on this board it's hard for me to tell.

 

[bac2therac]

over the years and with the accomplishments CVS has makes pointing out her salary as a reason she should go a petty complaint in my book..
But I can understand those wanting reasons to claim Vivian Stringer must go will not think of anything used against CVS as petty, if it serves their agenda.

The 6-24 would be a good reason, but claiming RU has a 6-24 record on 2/14/2017 is petty and a lie because the RU WBB record is 6-19 at this point of the season with 4 regular season games to go and a valid reason to attack her..
But you can hope RU doesn't win another game this season so your BS record holds true, though most RU WBB fans won't share that hope, even the ones that want her gone.

Shame you couldn't just use current record, because that is good enough ( bad enough?) to say Stringer should be replaced based on this year's record and how you feel about the future under her leadership .
But you decided to act petty and claim a record that isn't a valid one ( at this point of the season) to make it look worse.
Don't say your 6-24 record will come true to justify what you claimed, just say you hope it will so you can claim you knew.

there really is no difference from 6-24 than 7-23 and 8-22...I do think 8-22 changes anything at all so get bogged down in minutiae of deflecting the argument

 

[RizwranIII]

the 700k is because of Stringers success overall as a HC along with her HOF status .
That just is a petty excuse to bash her.
As for having a .500 winning percentage , even with this years terrible play included that's not ( if you meant B1G conference play it's a little worse with 3-9 record this season included) Last 7 seasons before this >6-19 (.315)season . B1G >3-9 (.333)
2010–11 Rutgers 20–13 11–5 4th NCAA Second Round
2011–12 Rutgers 20–13 10–6 6th NCAA First round
2012–13 Rutgers 16–14 7–9 T-9th
Rutgers Scarlet Knights (American Athletic Conference) (2013–2014)
2013–14 Rutgers 28–9 12–6 4th WNIT Champions
Rutgers Scarlet Knights (Big Ten Conference) (2014–present)
2014–15 Rutgers 23–10 12–6 5th NCAA Second Round
2015–16 Rutgers 19–15 7–9 8th WNIT Second Round

Complaining about Vivian's salary seems like a petty move to me, but there are probably others that feel the same as you about her being overpaid.
I just happen to think that's the wrong complaint and not a good reason to want CVS replaced.

As for your stats, again I feel you're not making a valid point using stats , that to me, are wrong. Please let me know if I'm mistaken about your statics being wrong by showing how you figured those stats out.

For you and those who feel CVS isn't meeting your expectations of having the RU WBB program one of the best and this season proves she must be replaced!
Those points are worthy of discussion , in my opinion, as long as we stick to the facts and not try to make things look worse than they really are.

This season's performance does make it hard to defend Vivian Stringer , but past seasons and the lack of support, poor facilities and CVS keeping the program from total destruction by being a name brand to some recruits and her coaching ability ( 2 years removed from Dancing) makes for a fairly good reason for Vivian to be brought back by Hobbs.
But this season could be considered a good reason for Hobbs to replace Stringer with someone else next year.
I'll not whine if C.Vivian Stringer is replaced by Hobbs , nor cry if she's brought back.
But will whine, cry and carry on if I feel Hobbs hires CVS' replacement >" on the cheap"

Given that RU easily had top 10 talent (probably top 5) during the prior years you mentioned, you actually presented a reason for CVS to be let go. The amount of McDonald All-Americans CVS had on every team during those years was amazing. How many times during that stretch did we end up at the end of the season ranked in the top 10? top 20? top 25?

 

[rimsky]

Next year we are gonna have a great team. I mean really good. The circumstances of this year are unfortunate but not to worry. Winning cures all and next year we are going to have a lot of it.

How does a team that is not getting ANY votes in the national polls become a great or really good team in 1 year? All those ranked teams will likely hold their position in the national polls. You must be expecting a miracle? Time to deal with reality?

 

[ScarletDave]

How does a team that is not getting ANY votes in the national polls become a great or really good team in 1 year? All those ranked teams will likely hold their position in the national polls. You must be expecting a miracle? Time to deal with reality?

It's not reality to expect all the teams to hold their spots in the polls. It's women's basketball. Besides literally UConn, South Car, UND, Baylor, and every couple years Georgia/TN, there is no real other "blue bloods" that will dominate the top-25 90% of the time like Men's bball or football where you can name 15-20 teams that are always good. Also, not just that it's women's basketball but basketball in general you know that 1 player can completely flip a team, well we're getting 6-7, and 2-3 of them would be the best player on the court if they played right now. Just wait and see.

 

[BeKnighted]

How does a team that is not getting ANY votes in the national polls become a great or really good team in 1 year? All those ranked teams will likely hold their position in the national polls. You must be expecting a miracle? Time to deal with reality?

Basketball is a funny game in that one player can make a huge difference. Tyler's pretty special. I don't know how much better the team would be with her, but it's not hard to imagine an average of, say, 10 points a game better with her than without her.

 

[NickyNewark51]

Basketball is a funny game in that one player can make a huge difference. Tyler's pretty special. I don't know how much better the team would be with her, but it's not hard to imagine an average of, say, 10 points a game better with her than without her.

Your right...as the loss of Epiphany Prince did at the beginning of our fall cost dearly...a huge blow..

 

[bac2therac]

Basketball is a funny game in that one player can make a huge difference. Tyler's pretty special. I don't know how much better the team would be with her, but it's not hard to imagine an average of, say, 10 points a game better with her than without her.

Tyler had Laney, Hollivay and Copper along aside her all WNBA talent and they still underacheived...so I dont know how much jump one player put on bad team can help....500 probably maybe a few games above and then what happens when she graduates....its going back below 500 because there are no recruits coming in of worth

 

[BeKnighted]

Tyler had Laney, Hollivay and Copper along aside her all WNBA talent and they still underacheived...so I dont know how much jump one player put on bad team can help....500 probably maybe a few games above and then what happens when she graduates....its going back below 500 because there are no recruits coming in of worth

Bac, I'm commenting in the context of the premise of the thread - one more year or not.

 

[RC66]

Again, it's a cruel choice to have to make.

But, if it is true:

if the "rojas" give us a good chance for a winning season in 2017-2018, then...

isn't it better to give our new coach (a new coach who is inevitably coming soon in any case)

to give that new coach a running start, to give her or him an opportunity to get a good start next year

rather than

risking sacrificing the program's future (perhaps for years)

because we can't make the cruel decision we should make this year?

Why put it off? We could very well have to force it next year anyway. And doing it now gives the new coach a cupboard that's not completely empty.

 

[RC66]

If you haven't voted yet, please vote now.