Shelby is disappointed in Mildy for thinking philosopher and apostle are the same thing.
The shine is off Coach Schiano
- Thread starter RUforJERSEY
- Start date
Cheese agrees with Shelby. It's been 5 years and once again we have no semblance of an offensive philosophy, creativity, or even skill players other than RB.
It is NOT an exaggeration to suggest our offensive is as predictable and vanilla as HS programs. It's that bad.
Nobody is coming after Greg. We are stuck with him and he knows it.
The real fear is next year’s depth will be much worse…. Getting to 4 wins might be considered a stretch.
If you're going to play a run heavy style with a serviceable QB that's a game manager who won't be the reason you win or lose games, the line play needs to be dominant. It's improved, but it's not nearly at that level.
Hire Urban with what money?
Were those in year 4 like they were with Flood?
When did Flood ever finish ranked like GS did?
Nebraska is now ranked 25. And, but for a wrong call, we go to OT.
I think I just disagree where we should be in year 5. I don't think 10 wins should be expected. Not where we came from. I think we are on track. Now, a loss versus UCLA god forbid I would rethink. But not at 4-2.
If we should rightfully be beating VT and UW I do wonder where that puts Miami and Michigan, lol.
Agreed, because we started 4-0 people bought the hype. We caught lucky breaks versus VT and UW and got zero breaks the last two games- to the point of having a clear TD not counted.
We are a middle of the pack B1G team. That is exactly where we belong IMO.
Totally agree. I think Kirk has been baffling with his playcalling. He’s well on his way to being fired by Greg a second time.
At the same time, building depth is going to take time and losing Felter was a huge blow to a thin OL. Ironically, it was Coach Blaz who was hammering this point home when he was on our sideline.
No argument for me. At least they put us out of our misery early this week so we could take naps and do chores with our Saturday afternoon.
Is it really that baffling though? His playcalling looks exactly like every other OC under Ash and Schiano. Middle run, middle run, incomplete pass short of the sticks, punt.
IIRC Kill and McNulty both subtly said their players were incapable of memorizing the playbook and executing simple fundamentals of the position, hence the super vanilla playbook. Gleeson got to this exact same point with his playcalling as well.
To be fair, under Kill it was middle run, middle run, stare at the sideline, delay of game penalty, run the play clock down to .01, false start, then an incomplete 5 yard pass on 3rd and 20, punt.
Under McNulty, it was middle run, false start, outside run with no blocking, incomplete pass 10 yards short of the sticks, punt.
The college football game is tremendously different today than during Greg’s first tenure here.
So im only focusing now on Greg 2.0. As I’ve said many times, Greg did great here his first go around. True program builder.
Neither have finished ranked.
No. They were in year 3.
LOL he never finished ranked if you ignore seasons I don't like!
Flood was not blown out in years 3 and 4?
To be clear, I was never expecting 10 wins. 8 was achievable for me but now I’m not so sure.
And my disappointment is not all about wins and losses. Part of it is that we haven’t gotten better as a team as the season progressed for the past several years. We’ve seemingly regressed for the most part. To me that’s a sign of coaching.
Also, Greg has been preaching player development and building depth. This is year 5, one would think he’d be able to gave some success by now yet our level of play has seriously dropped off of late after injuries that frankly impact every football program.And as I’ve said repeatedly, our lines are not upper echelon (or even mid-level) Big 10 quality. That’s been hugely disappointing too. How can Iowa and Wisconsin have solid lines every year with ~3 star talent and we can’t?
I loved Greg in his first go around. Perfect man for the job.
I’ve said since his 2nd hire he’s not the right man. Need a proven winner now. So yes, why are we debating his first go around here when we agree he did a great job?
He certainly was blown out in a few games in year 3 and 4. Yes. I was referring to Greg’s blowouts that I mentioned
8 is still achievable. God forbid a loss Saturday it is different.
I don't know that it's not the team improved or worsened but rather the schedule usually gets much more difficult in the rough patches. And really, the rough patch here is in part because of bad officiating on the road against a top 25 team.
Some of it is luck (injuries on the lines) BUT part of it with those teams is that they have had excellent lines going back into the last century. We, to say the least, had some blips here and there and are playing catch up. It's why we match up much better against a VT or UW or even a Nebraska.
You can't debate a record and then say, well remove years I don't like. I didn't like 2010 very much, he was still the coach.
The names you and others have submitted as "proven winners" vary from ironic (Fisch) not proven (Prime, Leipold) or just delusional (Urban).
I know you're focused on Greg while not admitting Flood and others have had worse problems with blowouts. That's the name of the game in troll land. Not my first day on the internet.
This thread had absolutely nothing to do with flood until you brought him up. That’s why I was focused on Greg and not flood.
I’ve never brought up Fisch. But yes, you know I like Prime and Leopold, admittedly. They’ve actually won conference championships. (Yes, I know easier conferences). And NATIONAL championships. They’ve actually beat top 25 teams. They’ve got their teams ranked. They’ve got game day on campus. I guess these facts help erase a bit the fact that they too get blown out..but at least they’ve proved they’re winners.
I’m sorry but Greg 2.0 hasn’t proved anything yet..
The problem is talent and philosophy. Negative two point zero tries to play close games against much more talented teams with the same philosophy as they have.
He is not going to beat Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois or probably Minnesota or Michigan State, or in other years PSU, OSU, UM with ground and pound offense when those programs are much better in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We don't have the talent, size or depth to do that. It's a moronic strategy. His teams are donkeys in horse races.
We were able to compete and beat VT because we didn't have that disadvantage. And we were flat out lucky to beat Wash.
The only hope for more than 6 wins is to aim for 35 points rather than 20. If you're going to likely lose, come out swinging rather than take punches for 12 rounds and hope the other guy eventually slips and knocks himself out.
Indiana is 6-0, and last time I checked has the highest PPG in the country. Their schedule hasn't been the strongest but their offense will give them a fighting chance. Our game plan ensures a loss before kickoff against good teams.
Agreed, I’ve essentially said all of this on other posts/threads.
He wants to be Michigan without the talent.
Right. Unfortunately, he’s incapable of thinking differently. He hires a similarly deficient OC, gets another QB who can’t throw, etc.
Problem is, his claim of not knowing why they got blown out is probably true. Even the obvious is beyond his chimp comprehension.
If he were a mailman and a homeowner moved his mailbox 20 feet to the side, negative two point zero wouldn’t find it.
It ain’t KC. Negative two point zero limits him to calling the first five plays on the list. Negative two point zero is running out of credibility and can’t keep firing OCs and replacing QBs.
We are going to see a lot of portal transfers out of the program this year and backfill from Lock Haven and Shippensburg.
I’m more specifically referring to x and short and the overall lack of plays for Sam Brown V. Behind a weak OL, I think he’s superior to KM as he showed when he was a freshman.
Wow, seeing that tackle now, isn't that illegal in the NFL, hip swing I think they call it? Wiscy did seem a little dirty, on the first play one of our players got an eye injury, i assume a poke but crappy B10 broadcast never showed a replay. There was also the Oline that tackled and drove Lewis into the turf.Army (23), Navy (25) and Nebraska (25 in coaches poll) all ranked now.
I would rather watch SA offenses than RUs mutant offense that's part pro set and part option.
Watching RU backs run to LOS with Athan joined to their hips is a strange play.
At Wake Forest the QB and RB meshed in a delay and that worked for passes.
I dont see the RU version doing anything more than distracting RU backs.
Brown - has to stay high to accommodate Siamese QB - got his knee bent back after he and Athan finally separated.
Defense didn't seem confused about anything
You guys are high. Greg is a program builder. He is building the program better than anyone else could. If it's not fast enough, blame the lack of support from our "fan base."
Most guys worth a damn wouldn't touch this job with a ten foot pole because our entire contributing fan base consists of the few hundred ppl on this board and TOS. I see the same crap we saw from the same type of impatient ppl that we did in 2004, 2005.
Most guys worth a damn wouldn't touch this job with a ten foot pole because our entire contributing fan base consists of the few hundred ppl on this board and TOS. I see the same crap we saw from the same type of impatient ppl that we did in 2004, 2005.
question I’ve never understood…what does “building the program” mean? Seriously?
He certainly built the program his first time. From logo to traditions to facilities and culture. Certainly, he took from a very small time program to a big time program. Which is where we are at currently thanks to Greg.
So what more does he have to build? To me, the program is built. We have tradition. We have good facilities. We are in one of best conference in country. Program is fine. We need to start winning and need a coach who can win
I mean, I think GS is doing a good job so far in his second tenure. And I'm a patient person who has always thought that becoming regularly competitive in the Big Ten is a massive challenge that will take more than 5 years.
Nonetheless, I disagree with several of your statements, all of which are purely speculative.
For example, it's not possible to factually state that no other coach could do a better job for RUFB. We're talking about the future so of course it's possible some other coach could do better. Maybe not easy, but almost certainly possible. At this point, it's only accurate to say that GS has been the best program builder RU has seen so far.
And the situation in 2004 and 2005 isn't very comparable to the current situation. Nowadays, there's way more money for coaches and staff. There's way better television coverage of our games. There're much better facilities.
I also think the RUFB HC job is probably far more attractive today than it has ever been.
I think this is true also. I also think that Schiano 2.0 is a big reason for that.
We need about $30-50M more in donations to be in the same league as our peers like Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa, etc. Do you know where we can get dozens of millions more from boosters? This isn't even including NIL by the way.
But why reference the hater Shelby at all? He was going to spread negativity any chance he gets... stopped clock kind of accuracy on his part... which is not accurate at all. Our poor performance was his good luck.. that is all.
I agree, but what we don't have is depth. I think the injuries this season threw a wrench in our plans, so now we're stuck between a hard place and a rock.
Donations and NIL sponsors would be the cure, so we could recruit and poach players for next season. But who wants to do that if we're not winning games? And how do we win games without a talented or competitive roster? So the cycle continues.
Greg said before the season we finally have depth to compete.
Was that a lie? What gives? How do we not have decent depth in year 5???
The culture was destroyed by Ash and to a lesser extent Flood as well, the talent level was nil, and the game has changed in the last 5, 6 years to where NIL is what matters far more than nice new facilities. You know as well as I do that we don't have anything like the kind of NIL warchest that the programs with a 75 year head start at big time football do. Let's not pretend we're on a level playing field with Nebraska and Wisconsin. If we can't at least be honest with ourselves about that, we can't possibly make a rational assessment of our own expectations.
If we cannot compete on NIL, then it’s down to three things, (1) identification of the diamonds in the rough that others miss, (2) the ability to develop those diamonds so they can shine, and (3) out-scheming and out-adjusting other coaches on game day.
I think the program is making strides in #s 1 and 2. I think the team is doing okay with #3 on the defensive side of the ball.
But I don’t think GS has been good with #3 on the offensive side of the ball since he’s been back. I agree with those who say that trying to out-tough long established tough-playing Big Ten teams is a bad long term strategy.
