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The shine is off Coach Schiano

I mean, I think GS is doing a good job so far in his second tenure. And I'm a patient person who has always thought that becoming regularly competitive in the Big Ten is a massive challenge that will take more than 5 years.

Nonetheless, I disagree with several of your statements, all of which are purely speculative.

For example, it's not possible to factually state that no other coach could do a better job for RUFB. We're talking about the future so of course it's possible some other coach could do better. Maybe not easy, but almost certainly possible. At this point, it's only accurate to say that GS has been the best program builder RU has seen so far.

And the situation in 2004 and 2005 isn't very comparable to the current situation. Nowadays, there's way more money for coaches and staff. There's way better television coverage of our games. There're much better facilities.

I also think the RUFB HC job is probably far more attractive today than it has ever been.
My apologies for my lack of clarity. Let me instead say this: based on the post-Rutgers employment history of every head coach RU has had after Frank Burns, I cannot imagine any head coach with any prospects risking his career taking this job if Schiano is fired. Chris Ash is unemployed. Graber didn't work for six years after being let go here. Dick Anderson, Terry Shea and Kyle Flood (so far) spent the rest of their careers bouncing around as assistants. My impression is most of the college football world figures this is a place only Schiano can make a go of.
 
If we cannot compete on NIL, then it’s down to three things, (1) identification of the diamonds in the rough that others miss, (2) the ability to develop those diamonds so they can shine, and (3) out-scheming and out-adjusting other coaches on game day.

I think the program is making strides in #s 1 and 2. I think the team is doing okay with #3 on the defensive side of the ball.

But I don’t think GS has been good with #3 on the offensive side of the ball since he’s been back. I agree with those who say that trying to out-tough long established tough-playing Big Ten teams is a bad long term strategy.
I think on the offensive side, we can improve the talent and the execution, but the conservative approach is something we will have to live with as long as he is coach. It's his nature.
 
My apologies for my lack of clarity. Let me instead say this: based on the post-Rutgers employment history of every head coach RU has had after Frank Burns, I cannot imagine any head coach with any prospects risking his career taking this job if Schiano is fired. Chris Ash is unemployed. Graber didn't work for six years after being let go here. Dick Anderson, Terry Shea and Kyle Flood (so far) spent the rest of their careers bouncing around as assistants. My impression is most of the college football world figures this is a place only Schiano can make a go of.
If RU pays they will get someone good and experienced. Of the five coaches you cite, Shea had two years as a HC, Graber one, the other three none. Our next HC hire should be required to have had success as a HC, lower level ok, I'd prefer someone that came through the offensive side of the ball.
 
My apologies for my lack of clarity. Let me instead say this: based on the post-Rutgers employment history of every head coach RU has had after Frank Burns, I cannot imagine any head coach with any prospects risking his career taking this job if Schiano is fired. Chris Ash is unemployed. Graber didn't work for six years after being let go here. Dick Anderson, Terry Shea and Kyle Flood (so far) spent the rest of their careers bouncing around as assistants. My impression is most of the college football world figures this is a place only Schiano can make a go of.
Yes, historically coaches have struggled to find success in football at RU. But I suspect, with no way of proving it, that much of that was circumstantial and that most of those negative circumstances have changed.

One circumstance that greatly hindered the ability of coaches prior to GS to have a lot of success was the lack of funding for the football program. That also applies to the Flood and Ash eras. If a football program wants to win but can't regularly recruit 4 and 5 star players, then that program must have assistant coaches who are above average at player identification and player development. We didn't really give Flood or Ash much in the way of assistant coach hiring funds so they could go out and grab such great experienced assistants.

GS did more with less, assistant-wise, in his first stint. I think his biggest trick was scheduling as many cupcakes as he could so as to get to bowl games so as to raise the profile of the team so as to be better able to sell the program to some solid to great recruits. That was very smart (and it was very dumb of our fanbase to not realize the value in that and spend so much time whining about OOC quality as if we we needed that to get to the playoffs anytime soon - incidentally I was one of those dumb whiners back then, so shame on me).

That lack of coach funding circumstance has changed now. In this second GS stint, he has much more reasonable funding for assistants. And the school now has the funds to hire an experienced new head coach (like GS) versus hiring first timers (like Flood or Ash).

I also think the school has become more mature in how it leverages modern brand marketing to ensure that HS football players get sold on RUFB in ways that didn't really happen nearly as well back in the GS1, Flood and Ash days. Things had started to improve in the GS1 era, and throughout the Flood and Ash eras. But they have continued to improve and that helps more than I think people appreciate.

This is already a too-long post. But I think there are other circumstances that have changed for the positive with the RUFB program that will help to attract a quality HC who can then attract quality assistants.

We better hope that's I'm right about replacing Schiano not being that big a deal. If not, then what will RU do when Schiano tires of the immense daily struggle that is D1 head coaching in the Big Ten and leaves the program (my guess is that he'll either retire, or be fired, or maybe leave for the NFL in under 10 years)? Are we just gonna give up at that point and cancel the program?
 
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I think on the offensive side, we can improve the talent and the execution, but the conservative approach is something we will have to live with as long as he is coach. It's his nature.
I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that, if he doesn't change offensive philosophies, he'll be gone in under 5 years. I think he will review things after this season and see that for himself - unless we have a miraculous second half of the season.
 
If RU pays they will get someone good and experienced. Of the five coaches you cite, Shea had two years as a HC, Graber one, the other three none. Our next HC hire should be required to have had success as a HC, lower level ok, I'd prefer someone that came through the offensive side of the ball.
Yeah, we've done the defensive-minded HC thing. Would be nice to see the next guy up be an offensive wizard. We still won't be able out-recruit top-half Big Ten teams. But we might be able to throw stuff at them that they don't see day in and day out in the Big Ten and make the RU preparation week a real bear for our opponents.

Today, it sure seems like it's really easy to prepare a defense to play us.
 
question I’ve never understood…what does “building the program” mean? Seriously?

He certainly built the program his first time. From logo to traditions to facilities and culture. Certainly, he took from a very small time program to a big time program. Which is where we are at currently thanks to Greg.

So what more does he have to build? To me, the program is built. We have tradition. We have good facilities. We are in one of best conference in country. Program is fine. We need to start winning and need a coach who can win
He still has to build a 50 ft golden statue in his own likeness holding a 10 foot choppin axe and with a life size, human marvel 6’ 230 lb muscle-bound (self-proclaimed) hulking Fieldhouse Al statue bowing before him.
 
For those that think revenue sharing with the players will be a bad thing, well for athletic depts in the B10/SEC who will get more money than schools in other conference maybe not...frankly even for the other conferences too. Schools being able to play players might be another mechanism to bring a little more parity as we've already seen with portal and NIL.

As soon as 2025 possible ADs can share up to 20-23M annually.




 
For those that think revenue sharing with the players will be a bad thing, well for athletic depts in the B10/SEC who will get more money than schools in other conference maybe not...frankly even for the other conferences too. Schools being able to play players might be another mechanism to bring a little more parity as we've already seen with portal and NIL.

As soon as 2025 possible ADs can share up to 20-23M annually.




From where would the Rutgers athletic department get the $20 million to $30 million to pay the athletes?
 
The culture was destroyed by Ash and to a lesser extent Flood as well, the talent level was nil, and the game has changed in the last 5, 6 years to where NIL is what matters far more than nice new facilities. You know as well as I do that we don't have anything like the kind of NIL warchest that the programs with a 75 year head start at big time football do. Let's not pretend we're on a level playing field with Nebraska and Wisconsin. If we can't at least be honest with ourselves about that, we can't possibly make a rational assessment of our own expectations.

It’s a chicken or egg..win..and our NIL goes up. But we seem to not be able to win without NiL pool..so what?

Again, we need a proven winner who doesn’t need to rely on nil. Look at Indiana. They can’t have a much larger nil pool for football as us. Yet they’re ranked and look great on offense. It’s all about coaching.
 
It ain’t KC. Negative two point zero limits him to calling the first five plays on the list. Negative two point zero is running out of credibility and can’t keep firing OCs and replacing QBs.

We are going to see a lot of portal transfers out of the program this year and backfill from Lock Haven and Shippensburg.
KC stunk the first go round here.

"Following the 2008 season, Ciarrocca was promoted to quarterbacks coach and co-offensive coordinator for the Scarlet Knights, a title he would share with offensive line coach Kyle Flood.[13] This is a title that Ciarrocca would hold for two season before being fired. In 2010, the Scarlet Knights' offense ranked 114th out of 120 teams, and finished with a 4-8 record"

so then he ties into PJ Fleck for the next few years and then gets fired after 1 season at PSU..then gets a return year for minny and somehow he's our answer making him the highest paid assist ($1.4mm) in program history. ...see any reason for that?
 
If we cannot compete on NIL, then it’s down to three things, (1) identification of the diamonds in the rough that others miss, (2) the ability to develop those diamonds so they can shine, and (3) out-scheming and out-adjusting other coaches on game day.

I think the program is making strides in #s 1 and 2. I think the team is doing okay with #3 on the defensive side of the ball.

But I don’t think GS has been good with #3 on the offensive side of the ball since he’s been back. I agree with those who say that trying to out-tough long established tough-playing Big Ten teams is a bad long term strategy.
I think he's totally sucking with #3 on both sides. He's pretty much always been a difficult x-0 guy on offense but his defensive skills were always damn good.
 
KC stunk the first go round here.

"Following the 2008 season, Ciarrocca was promoted to quarterbacks coach and co-offensive coordinator for the Scarlet Knights, a title he would share with offensive line coach Kyle Flood.[13] This is a title that Ciarrocca would hold for two season before being fired. In 2010, the Scarlet Knights' offense ranked 114th out of 120 teams, and finished with a 4-8 record"

so then he ties into PJ Fleck for the next few years and then gets fired after 1 season at PSU..then gets a return year for minny and somehow he's our answer making him the highest paid assist ($1.4mm) in program history. ...see any reason for that?
Kirk was hired because he’d be a yes man to Greggie. Schiano’s fingerprints are all over this conservative, predictable offense.

To make the point, Greggie has completely ceded the possibility of advancing the ball even 1 yard in punt and kickoff returns because he’s scared shitless about fumbles. What other team in America returns no punts and no kickoffs??
 
I think he's totally sucking with #3 on both sides. He's pretty much always been a difficult x-0 guy on offense but his defensive skills were always damn good.
I also think #3, at least on the offensive side of the ball, is just not GS's strong suit. But he has money to bring in good coordinators now, and he seems much more willing to let those coordinators do their jobs, within the overall philosophy, with less interference from him. I think GS switched from pure control-freak over the OC/DC to more of a Meyer model which is set a philosophy and then demand accountability.

It's always hard to know how much is coaching and how much is other things. Without vast NIL funding, it's hard to create a really competitive OL I think. And if the OL is bad, the whole O will be bad no matter what the coaches try to do.
 
Kirk was hired because he’d be a yes man to Greggie. Schiano’s fingerprints are all over this conservative, predictable offense.

To make the point, Greggie has completely ceded the possibility of advancing the ball even 1 yard in punt and kickoff returns because he’s scared shitless about fumbles. What other team in America returns no punts and no kickoffs??
I really don't think all that is true. And ultimately, at the end of the day, the OC and DC do what the HC wants on every team everywhere. Or they get fired.

And when the team is much stronger on D than on O, the team should be scared shitless about fumbles. Keeping the score close is the only way to win when the O cannot produce. Fumbles work against that principle.

You're oversimplifying and creating a story that fits with your negative feelings about the situation. I can understand that. But reality is always far more complex.

I'm not saying that to defend Schiano (if you recall, I was outspoken in not wanting him rehired up until he was actually hired). I'm just pointing out that these coach bashing narratives are always overblown. The win-loss record or statistics are facts and are all we need to support or condemn coaching. Everything else is a narrative that says more about the people crafting the narrative, and how they feel, than anything else.

Remember all the threads where people bashed Flood for taking notes during games? As if that was a bad thing? I've seen Meyer and Saban taking notes. That note-taking nonsense is a perfect example of the sort of ridiculous, coach-hating, depressed fan narrative building nonsense that happens when a team struggles.
 
What do you guys think the demands of a "proven winner" would be to come here? Salary, Budget for staff, NIL budget, control parameters.. ie power. What would those demands be and would Rutgers admin be able, and be willing, to provide it?
 
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I am not surprised that someone who thinks we should be 12-0 every year disagrees, lol. Would be disappointing if you admitted the BS agenda now.

Washington beat a ranked Michigan team. Both UW and VT have certainly done better against good teams than Indiana. VT pretty much beat Miami as well.
How 'bout you stop worrying about who IU has played as we still have Nebraska, Ohio State and Michigan ahead. Who cares if we're winning OUR games by huge numbers. How does this translate to YOUR team and their losses? Only reason I bring this up is because you're continuously bringing up Indiana for some reason and comparing their current THUS FAR to yours. This has zero to do with your team and where they are headed. Strange hill to lounge on.
 
I mean, I think GS is doing a good job so far in his second tenure. And I'm a patient person who has always thought that becoming regularly competitive in the Big Ten is a massive challenge that will take more than 5 years.

Nonetheless, I disagree with several of your statements, all of which are purely speculative.

For example, it's not possible to factually state that no other coach could do a better job for RUFB. We're talking about the future so of course it's possible some other coach could do better. Maybe not easy, but almost certainly possible. At this point, it's only accurate to say that GS has been the best program builder RU has seen so far.

And the situation in 2004 and 2005 isn't very comparable to the current situation. Nowadays, there's way more money for coaches and staff. There's way better television coverage of our games. There're much better facilities.

I also think the RUFB HC job is probably far more attractive today than it has ever been.
not "probably." IS. By a mile.

Top conference, top salary and more reason than ever before for top recruits to come.
 
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So now we're playing the best teams in the conference?

I thought UW, Wisc, Neb were all contributing to a much easier schedule?

It seems no matter what happens, the teams that beat us are always better than everyone else thinks and very underrated.
They were until you lost to them... and this is directed at the person always bringing up Indiana's 'easy' schedule. They fail to remember all the press before the year about RU's finally getting the easiest schedule after having to face the East (just like Indiana). NOW they say it's a harder schedule because the W's they thought they'd have.. are L's.
 
Rutgers HC Greg Schiano - Coaching Staff Vertical Alignment

Eight minute video during which Greg describes his coaching philosophy in detail.

He mentions Paul Revere ten times, several times using the American patriot's name as a verb.

Here is a nine second snippet in which Paul is mentioned four times;

"If you all Paul Revere... it goes back to family if you forget about yourself and Paul Revere your co-workers, Paul Revere your head coach. And I'd like to think that I now at this stage of my career Paul Revere my assistant coaches more than anything."

Could somebody define the verb "to Paul Revere" for me?
 
Rutgers HC Greg Schiano - Coaching Staff Vertical Alignment

Eight minute video during which Greg describes his coaching philosophy in detail.

He mentions Paul Revere ten times, several times using the American patriot's name as a verb.

Here is a nine second snippet in which Paul is mentioned four times;

"If you all Paul Revere... it goes back to family if you forget about yourself and Paul Revere your co-workers, Paul Revere your head coach. And I'd like to think that I now at this stage of my career Paul Revere my assistant coaches more than anything."

Could somebody define the verb "to Paul Revere" for me?
Holy shit you are a pyscho, who even remembers this video. I don’t even think Greg does himself
 
What do you guys think the demands of a "proven winner" would be to come here? Salary, Budget for staff, NIL budget, control parameters.. ie power. What would those demands be and would Rutgers admin be able, and be willing, to provide it?
Ideally, it would be a father/son type combo deal. Like if Bill Belichick and Stephen Belichick wanted to coach together; make stephen the head coach and Bill the defensive coordinator. Similar dynamic to Monte Kiffin and Lane Kiffin (@ USC). I think that would give us the best shot.

The other way is, you promise them they can bring in an absolute stud for offensive coordinator. Ala Chip Kelly. That would allow an executive coach who just is keen on leaning in on the recruiting and team building to defer ALL of those responsibilities to the coordinator and be very confident.
 
This thread had absolutely nothing to do with flood until you brought him up. That’s why I was focused on Greg and not flood.

I’ve never brought up Fisch. But yes, you know I like Prime and Leopold, admittedly. They’ve actually won conference championships. (Yes, I know easier conferences). And NATIONAL championships. They’ve actually beat top 25 teams. They’ve got their teams ranked. They’ve got game day on campus. I guess these facts help erase a bit the fact that they too get blown out..but at least they’ve proved they’re winners.

I’m sorry but Greg 2.0 hasn’t proved anything yet..

I must have missed the KU and CU championships they won...we are talking success as a P5 coach.

Greg had far more success than either. Their best season was 9 wins. Greg beat it. KU is 1-5 and CU is 4-2.

Yeah Greg was never ranked or beaten anyone in top 25 LMAO- but those seasons go against my narrative, so let's discard them!

Wisconsin-Whitewater though!
 
Agree with your post but Indiana's NIL and money (revenue sharing) is pretty strong. The support is booming right now and we're paying players in FB and BB at a very high rate (which is sad).

RU's "total support" is 4x less than Indiana's.


There are a bunch of schools with, say, highly profitable football that can support basketball.. Alabama for example.. and the reverse too. Indiana may be a case of the reverse. High pride in Indiana among alums partially due to state identity AND the basketball tradition. That can get leveraged.

Meanwhile.. at Rutgers.. and most old northeastern schools... no great success, no real state pride (unless attacked on that measure like I am doing now).. it is Catch-22.. you have to win to get the support and money and you need the support and money to win.

We could look for a deep-pocketed Jersey-bred savior.. but they all leave the state for some reason... when they choose a school... or after.
 
Also.. I would assume Coach describe what he meant in the context of that video.. but in the chosen quotes that gets left out.
That is why I posted a link to the 8-minute video. Feel free to watch it if you want the context. I did not want to write the entire transcript.

The Paul Revere stuff begins at 5:10 mark.
 
Rutgers HC Greg Schiano - Coaching Staff Vertical Alignment

Eight minute video during which Greg describes his coaching philosophy in detail.

He mentions Paul Revere ten times, several times using the American patriot's name as a verb.

Here is a nine second snippet in which Paul is mentioned four times;

"If you all Paul Revere... it goes back to family if you forget about yourself and Paul Revere your co-workers, Paul Revere your head coach. And I'd like to think that I now at this stage of my career Paul Revere my assistant coaches more than anything."

Could somebody define the verb "to Paul Revere" for me?
Sure, it's a phrase a moron used to try to convince others he's not a moron and has something besides neuronless fat filling his brain cavity.

The moron's next video was about time travel to 1948 where said moron found the Coast Guard Academy playbook in which he boasts about Paul Revereing to his offensive staff to maximize negative plays.
 
I must have missed the KU and CU championships they won...we are talking success as a P5 coach.

Greg had far more success than either. Their best season was 9 wins. Greg beat it. KU is 1-5 and CU is 4-2.

Yeah Greg was never ranked or beaten anyone in top 25 LMAO- but those seasons go against my narrative, so let's discard them!

Wisconsin-Whitewater though!

Why are we only talking success as a P5 coach????

As a football coach..both Deion and Lance are far more successful.

but as you say..it goes against your narrative so let’s discard their successful seasons..is that how it works?
 
Ordinarily, Shelby would be impressed with such obscure quotation knowledge. But he knows Mildy googled that one.
Mildone has long been quoting many different wise and brilliant historic figures, Voltaire being just one of them, with regards to the lameness of certainty. So, while I did in fact do a web search, it was only to get the precise language for the quote because I am always uncertain that I've correctly remembered the precise language of the quote.

So I will count you as impressed.
 
Mildone has long been quoting many different wise and brilliant historic figures, Voltaire being just one of them, with regards to the lameness of certainty. So, while I did in fact do a web search, it was only to get the precise language for the quote because I am always uncertain that I've correctly remembered the precise language of the quote.

So I will count you as impressed.
Shelby will allow being counted as such. 99% of fans who post here think Voltaire was a pioneer in electricity measurement.

FYI it’s “regard to”.
 
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