Our moot courtroom (an important place in law schools) is named for a law firm that ponied up the money. We have classrooms that bear a plaque honoring a donor, but you can barely read the plaque and,for convenience, we still refer to the room by its number. I *think* that Northwestern's law school building is named after a prominent real estate developer in Chicago who contributed a lot. There is nothing wrong with your idea except that we haven't run across someone interested in putting up the money. Our development office does its best to solicit funds and I'm sure would look with favor on anyone willing to donate enough to make it worth while.
USNWR 2020
- Thread starter rufancoe00
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Our moot courtroom (an important place in law schools) is named for a law firm that ponied up the money. We have classrooms that bear a plaque honoring a donor, but you can barely read the plaque and,for convenience, we still refer to the room by its number. I *think* that Northwestern's law school building is named after a prominent real estate developer in Chicago who contributed a lot. There is nothing wrong with your idea except that we haven't run across someone interested in putting up the money. Our development office does its best to solicit funds and I'm sure would look with favor on anyone willing to donate enough to make it worth while.
One of my nieces, raised in New Jersey, went to Georgia Tech for engineering, even though it was a considerable financial strain for her parents. The niece has never doubted that she made the right decision. I think what you say is generally true about going to an out-of-state state university, but there are many good reasons for going to a smaller institution,with a fine reputation. A place as large as Rutgers is just not for everyone. Most of my faculty colleagues chose to send their children to excellent private colleges (e.g. Duke) even though Rutgers charges no tuition to the children of its employees.
Rutgers gets the NJ treatment. Apathy. I think it’s a great school that suffers because of apathetic attitudes. We have a great freshman class coming in with excellent test scores, new facilities and more research $ coming in, yet we drop in USNews. I’m telling you, it’s apathetic attitudes that seal our fate. No other explanation for it.
I am not certain of this, but my impression is that our incoming class is not especially excellent when compared to other B1G schools. I think all B1G schools are getting students with better scores and grades.
Actually Camden they do. But when asked, I do correct them. But I don't think it's a matter of "not a good sign." People that live outside self-loathing NJ appreciate the quality of Rutgers. And those in the know, are very impressed with the graduate programs at Rutgers.
Despite our quality, we're not better than the average B1G school, even in the rankings that @HeavenUniv. likes to cite. So there is no reason why we should have a better reputation in California than the rest of the B1G schools -- which most Californians have never heard of except as football and basketball teams. It must be they think we are private -- something our name suggests.
Yes and no. Yes, you may be right regarding the private aspect, but no, because I've talked to many professors at UCI, UCLA and UCSB and they're aware of the top graduate programs like, English, mathematics, the arts, history, engineering, pharmacy and business. In fact two of the professors received their PhD's from Rutgers after attending UCLA and Harvard.
But as far as undergraduate, I still think you're giving Rutgers short shrift. I believe the average SAT scores are around 1300 now, which is very competitive and more than comparable to other B1G schools and the average GPA's have risen considerably, again in line with the top B1G schools.
You're just saying what I'm saying, but in a different way. Yes, we are "comparable" to other B1G schools. But we are not particularly outstanding among them. I think it is wrong to say this is simply a result of New Jersey's "we hate ourselves" ideology, although that is a factor. Part of it is that there are so many well-known schools around us, and so parents/students have many alternatives to Rutgers. Part of it is that the rumor of the RU Screw persists. Part of it is that, let's face it, parts of the campus and its environs are just not very pleasant. The Honors College is a great achievement, but we need to do more for the rest of the students.
Unless, like your WVU example, they didn't get admitted to RU.
Though I agree if a WVU enrollee chooses it over a Rutgers admission (it happens apparently) I'd generally agree that I don't see the draw...and that would be for RU-Newark and probably RU-Camden too, at least relative to a school as mediocre as WVU, despite the larger flagship school (preferred by some) you'd give up in WVU. The exception to that being a full ride or enough money from WVU to more than offset the OOS tuition difference (at minimum) if not a full ride vs. no money from RU.
Another factor is availability of certain fields/programs of study where if Rutgers-NB doesn't have a major then you have to consider there being exceptions.
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You make it sound awful being comparable to schools in the B1G outside of Northwestern and Michigan. I think it’s pretty darn good, imo.
Perhaps we're in a tie for third, but I don't think so; we're middle of the pack. That's "pretty darn good," but it's not enough to make us the Berkeley or UCLA of the east, or even the Virginia of the Northeast. Our key problems are lack of resources (thanks in part to the state legislature, in part to our lack of financial angels among our alumni) and too much competition from schools that offer very nice campuses and a smaller sizes.
True. That said, aside from being stronger academically, higher profiles from stronger athletics programs, and having cachet that's at another level, I wonder why that doesn't hurt Michigan or Duke as much as it does Rutgers? Both have physically non-contiguous multi-campus setups and bus systems.
The poster who established this board regularly referred to Rutgers as "ghetto." I never quite understood what he meant by that -- he denied he was being racist -- but perhaps it's an indication that it's the campus surroundings that are a problem. Or -- and I don't know if this is true -- perhaps Rutgers students are more likely to need to take buses than students at other schools.
NB has its warts for sure, but Durham isn't much to write home about. Ann Arbor is better than both. Maybe Duke students spend less time off campus than Rutgers students, or have fewer students who live off-campus and therefore avoid the local environs in less safe areas. No question the actual campuses at Duke are more appealing than the campuses at Rutgers, but that's not surprising when one has the deep pockets of a NJ family fortune (coincidentally only 15 minutes up the road from NB) and the other is funded by the NJ state government.
The need to take buses at Rutgers may well be greater than the other two, but I have no idea either. Probably a safe guess though. I assume the need to take buses at Rutgers increased after the faculty consolidation in the early 80s, which made good sense for other reasons.
I haven’t been to Durham since the mid 90s but I remember parts of it being terrible. One thing that has changed dramatically in the last five years is the number of students who are in Piscataway. So kids and parents who want a suburban instead of urban environment now have thousands of dorms on Livingston and Busch, many of them brand new or fairly new. In addition, New Brunswick, both the campus and town are night and day compared to the late 70s and early 80s. Tons of restaurants, thousands of new apartments that have been built on campus and near campus, plus hundreds of cultural events on Douglass, College Ave, The State Theatre, and the two brand new Rutgers theaters at the New Brunswick Performing Arts Center. What I hope happens at some point with Rutgers, the hospitals, and Devco is that more employees live in town. The thousands of new apartments are aimed at artists,grad students and young employees.
The need to take buses is decreasing as more classes are offered through video feeds-students have the option of actually being on the classroom or not, depending on their schedule that day and what campus they are on or going to that day.
Does anyone know what the average SAT is for each B1G school?
My guess is only NW, Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin would be ahead of us, maybe Ohio State and Purdue.
We have been ahead of the Cult in average SAT for some time now.
My guess is only NW, Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin would be ahead of us, maybe Ohio State and Purdue.
We have been ahead of the Cult in average SAT for some time now.
Thanks!
So we're behind Ohio State slightly, ahead of Purdue.
Did not expect Maryland and Minnesota to have such high numbers. Apparently Minnesota is more competitive than Wisconsin, which I really did not expect.
Essentially RU is #8 in average SAT score. But there is minimal difference for the most part between NW and Michigan at the top and Nebraska and apparently MSU at the bottom. Would have thought MSU would not have been last.
https://admissions.newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/applying/admissions-profile
From the source itself. Very strong scores.
Eh.
Not sure I agree 100% if we are pitting one against the other.
But if you're just talking about the physical plant as a whole, sure.
Of course I wasn't talking about pitting the honor students against anyone else (if that's what you're suggesting I said.) . My point has been that we need more resources. That would help give further assistance to all students, e.g. smaller classes, without taking anything away from the honor students.
Thank you for the link. I wonder what year the numbers represent; maybe I read too fast, but I didn't see that.
Just like I said, we're a middle-of-the pack Big 10 school. If we had more resources, we could easily surpass a number of the schools above us. But New Jerseyans don't seem to care, and out alumni giving, while better than in the past, is still not that wonderful. We lack, for one thing, a financial angel on the academic side.
That's why I asked. ;)
Rutgers-NB should try less to be leveled out and a one size fits all because as others have already said in this and other threads...it's not for everybody nor should it be. There are other State institutions than can do and be that.
I wasn't suggesting that either. I was suggesting not that Rutgers admit "everybody," but rather that Rutgers do better a job for the students who are admitted and enrolled there.
I probably should take a break from the board today. Evidently my ability to make myself clear is on the fritz.
It's not you. And wasn't suggesting that was your idea either.
That was just MY opinion and wasn't trying to argue.
Keep in mind that a lot of those Midwestern schools have a lot more kids taking the ACT. Out of staters are more likely to take the SAT. It's harder to get into most state schools out of state. Therefore the SAT scores are a bit inflated.
I suggested above that academically we are middle-of-the-pack in the B1G. Of course, we'd love to do that well in football this year. But we ought to strive to be better -- to be in the top #20 of the nation -- both academically and athletically.
Rutgers probably won't ever be a top 20 academic school. Top 50 or maybe top 40 is realistic.
And it's equally unrealistic for us to be top 20 athletically. But the only way to make yourself good is to try to make yourself great.
I would say between 25 and 50 is the sweet spot. I also feel this way about the law school.
Kids don’t go to Delaware/WVU etc instead of Rutgers. They go to those schools instead of Rowan or Kean. Once you get waitlisted from Rutgers, there’s really no good “Major State U” alternative within 75 miles.
Most of the other State Us accept New Jersey kids based on the probability they can give them a $10,000 merit scholarship, undercut Rutgers instate tuition, and make more money off of them and have a better quality student than an in state kid. Meanwhile, Rutgers doesn’t even give a F whether parents are alumni, or even if they donate four figures to the school every year. Loyalty works both ways here, and if Southern State U will match Rutgers tuition and have cheaper housing, they will earn the business. It’s not like Rutgers is doing whatever it can to get this athletics donor to throw a couple bucks to the academic side.
The reason Maryland & Minnesota SAT scores are significantly higher is because they superscore - they take the highest score on each part of the test. Maryland claims their average ACT is a 32, which is equivalent to a 1450 SAT. I told the admissions rep flat out they were distorting their numbers, and she agreed. But when there’s 4 parts to the test, the more you take it the higher your super score gets. Rutgers can do that and get their numbers to eye popping levels really quickly too, but they don’t play the system.
Most of the other State Us accept New Jersey kids based on the probability they can give them a $10,000 merit scholarship, undercut Rutgers instate tuition, and make more money off of them and have a better quality student than an in state kid. Meanwhile, Rutgers doesn’t even give a F whether parents are alumni, or even if they donate four figures to the school every year. Loyalty works both ways here, and if Southern State U will match Rutgers tuition and have cheaper housing, they will earn the business. It’s not like Rutgers is doing whatever it can to get this athletics donor to throw a couple bucks to the academic side.
The reason Maryland & Minnesota SAT scores are significantly higher is because they superscore - they take the highest score on each part of the test. Maryland claims their average ACT is a 32, which is equivalent to a 1450 SAT. I told the admissions rep flat out they were distorting their numbers, and she agreed. But when there’s 4 parts to the test, the more you take it the higher your super score gets. Rutgers can do that and get their numbers to eye popping levels really quickly too, but they don’t play the system.
When I was applying, every school automatically considered your highest Reading and Math SAT scores to be your score. Is that not the case now?
Also, assuming by "Southern State U" you don't mean UNC and UVA...I guess I could see going to UGA or UF if it was the same price, are they the ones offering that? If not I don't see the value.
I think the bolded is generally true for the majority of cases but every once in awhile it happens relative to RU-NB (probably moreso with RU-Camden). Some might not even apply to Rutgers for whatever reasons they have against it. Some would go to those OOS schools for the same perceived reasons as we see with peer-level OOS schools (e.g. Penn State, Maryland) such as to brag about not settling for Rutgers or going to school further away from home (although for parts of southern NJ, UDel may be closer physically than RU-NB). Otherwise, it's the typical refrain that too many kids from hometown are going or it's too big (enrollment and/or campus size). UDel, WVU, URI, Temple, etc, while flagships or "major" public Us in their own right, are more medium-sized (relatively speaking) in terms of enrollment and more compact campuses.
For the more typical cases of going OOS to those slightly 'higher profile' schools versus perceived lesser local schools such as Rowan, Kean, and the like, definitely the lack of other flagships nearby (esp. in-state) drives that. Despite being somewhat hampered by location stigma, I suppose NJIT could rise to at least a "flagship-lite" level, which they seemingly appear to be doing by continuing to expand their academic programs (esp. beyond technical/hard sciences) as well as elevating to D1 athletics in recent years. But I feel quite a few would still opt for OOS if the only "major" NJ public school alternatives to Rutgers-NB are either NJIT or Rowan or Rutgers-Nwk.
Here's a fun little chart that WVU puts out. This essentially says, "if you can't get into Rutgers, WVU is cheaper than every other NJ State School". NJ pumps out way more 3.5/1250 SAT kids than Rutgers can accomodate. These other states need NJ kids to bump up their average scores. All things equal, I'd rather my kid take his chances with a WVU degree than a Stockton or Montclair degree.
Here's a fun little chart that WVU puts out. This essentially says, "if you can't get into Rutgers, WVU is cheaper than every other NJ State School". NJ pumps out way more 3.5/1250 SAT kids than Rutgers can accomodate. These other states need NJ kids to bump up their average scores. All things equal, I'd rather my kid take his chances with a WVU degree than a Stockton or Montclair degree.
Agree it is definitely an option for kids who do not get into RU..maybe I too far removed but wouldn't someone with those grades get into another state school that is better than WVU but worse than RU, like UConn or UMass or something...I always remember WVU had a reputation that was just drinking but it could have changed.
Another of my nieces went briefly to West Virginia U., and just couldn't stand being up there . She lasted a semester. Although the school is,from what I"ve heard, still academically undemanding. she didn't like WVU. BTW, WVU's admissions standards lead them to admit students who wouldn't get in to any major state university.
Nothing changed, WVU is still a party school for kids that can't get in anywhere else. Someone with those grades essentially has their choice of all but 4 or 5 state schools on the east coast. WVU is just open enough to admit they can be the low cost alternative before all the other schools get their merit offers together. It's an interesting hook for parents who are cash buyers.
Holy crap, FSU at 57 is an absolute travesty. My good friend went to UF and then had a job in the Tallahassee area for a couple of years and used to make extra $$ tutoring students and he simply couldn't believe that FSU cracked the top 100 back then. My niece went there and she's bright, but not Ivy material and she thought it was easy. I get that anecdotes don't "prove" anything, but I've just heard way too many stories over the years to believe they can be #57.
Having said all that, the space across just about any 20 spots is pretty tiny, i.e., 62 is only a whisker away from 50 or 70. Always thought the World Rankings were better, as they certainly focus more on academics and scholarship.
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