USNWR 2020

[retired711]

Holy crap, FSU at 57 is an absolute travesty. My good friend went to UF and then had a job in the Tallahassee area for a couple of years and used to make extra $$ tutoring students and he simply couldn't believe that FSU cracked the top 100 back then. My niece went there and she's bright, but not Ivy material and she thought it was easy. I get that anecdotes don't "prove" anything, but I've just heard way too many stories over the years to believe they can be #57.

Having said all that, the space across just about any 20 spots is pretty tiny, i.e., 62 is only a whisker away from 50 or 70. Always thought the World Rankings were better, as they certainly focus more on academics and scholarship.

My guess is that the World Rankings are based largely on graduate programs and faculty research. I doubt that's of much importance to students seeking an undergraduate education. And we don't even finish that well in in the World Rankings, but are rather middle-of-the-pack B1G.

I went to high school in Orlando. This was in the stone age, but UF had a much better reputation than FSU. I am also very surprised that FSU is considered at the same level as Rutgers.

I"ll get lynched for this, but if I had had a child, I would have hesitated before urging him or her to go to Rutgers, even though it would have been free for me. Rutgers has some excellent programs, but it's not for everyone. Although I went to a very large school, I would suggest to the child that he or she think about the need to have more individualized attention than is possible at a school Rutgers' size. FWIW, I did have three colleagues who sent children to Rutgers (one colleague was OOS), but there were many more who went to places like Duke or Carnegie-Mellon. Naturally there were some who went to Ivy League schools.

 

[NotInRHouse]

My guess is that the World Rankings are based largely on graduate programs and faculty research. I doubt that's of much importance to students seeking an undergraduate education. And we don't even finish that well in in the World Rankings, but are rather middle-of-the-pack B1G.

I went to high school in Orlando. This was in the stone age, but UF had a much better reputation than FSU. I am also very surprised that FSU is considered at the same level as Rutgers.

I"ll get lynched for this, but if I had had a child, I would have hesitated before urging him or her to go to Rutgers, even though it would have been free for me. Rutgers has some excellent programs, but it's not for everyone. Although I went to a very large school, I would suggest to the child that he or she think about the need to have more individualized attention than is possible at a school Rutgers' size. FWIW, I did have three colleagues who sent children to Rutgers (one colleague was OOS), but there were many more who went to places like Duke or Carnegie-Mellon. Naturally there were some who went to Ivy League schools.

Honestly I think going to a big school prepares you better for real life. There's no hand holding at RU, but there's no hand holding in grad school or most careers either. Just my $0.02. I would have no issue with my kid going to TCNJ if that was their choice but I am a believer in the big school.

Also, if my kid got into CMU or Duke or an Ivy I would be honored and want them to go. But that is a different case than going to Delaware or something that is popular in the NJ crowd but not better than RU.

 

[retired711]

Honestly I think going to a big school prepares you better for real life. There's no hand holding at RU, but there's no hand holding in grad school or most careers either. Just my $0.02. I would have no issue with my kid going to TCNJ if that was their choice but I am a believer in the big school.

Also, if my kid got into CMU or Duke or an Ivy I would be honored and want them to go. But that is a different case than going to Delaware or something that is popular in the NJ crowd but not better than RU.

I hear your point, but I have met many people who went to small schools and I don't see any difference between them and graduates of large institutions. I would not want a child to go to a state university other than Rutgers unless the state university were on the level of Cal, UCLA, Michigan the like.

My impression is that kids grow up more slowly now than when I was in college. A lot of kids do need some hand holding during the college years. And, btw, there is often a lot of handholding in graduate school because students often become close to a particular professor in their specialty.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I hear your point, but I have met many people who went to small schools and I don't see any difference between them and graduates of large institutions. I would not want a child to go to a state university other than Rutgers unless the state university were on the level of Cal, UCLA, Michigan the like.

My impression is that kids grow up more slowly now than when I was in college. A lot of kids do need some hand holding during the college years. And, btw, there is often a lot of handholding in graduate school because students often become close to a particular professor in their specialty.

At least in law school there wasn't....but I think Berkeley only had "pass" and "no pass" though I am not sure if it was like that in your day :)

 

[retired711]

At least in law school there wasn't....but I think Berkeley only had "pass" and "no pass" though I am not sure if it was like that in your day :)

You're right that there is little or no handholding in law school.

Berkeley Law does not have pass/no pass and, to the best of my knowledge, never has had. When I was at Berkeley, it had four grades: High honors (top 10% of class) honors (next 30% of class), pass (everyone else) and fail (happens to virtually no one.) Students cared a lot about their grades.

Currently, Berkeley Law has five grades, and the percentages that can be in each group are different in the first year than the other grades. https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/for-employers/grading-policy/

When I was at Berkeley's law school, Stanford had a pass/no pass grading system, but eventually the students and faculty both felt the need for further grades.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You're right that there is little or no handholding in law school.

Berkeley Law does not have pass/no pass and, to the best of my knowledge, never has had. When I was at Berkeley, it had four grades: High honors (top 10% of class) honors (next 30% of class), pass (everyone else) and fail (happens to virtually no one.) Students cared a lot about their grades.

Currently, Berkeley Law has five grades, and the percentages that can be in each group are different in the first year than the other grades. https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/for-employers/grading-policy/

When I was at Berkeley's law school, Stanford had a pass/no pass grading system, but eventually the students and faculty both felt the need for further grades.

Maybe I was thinking of Yale.

 

[retired711]

Maybe I was thinking of Yale.

Yale Law is pass/fail only for the first semester. There are three passing grades after that just the way Berkeley used to.

 

[Knight177lb]

The US News rankings are 50% based on surveys of the general public. Most of the public doesn't know how much research is done at a university, the starting salaries of graduates, or the acceptance rate into elite graduate schools. You know, the stuff that really matters. Most people judge a university by their sports programs.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Rank the Ivy Leagues academically

 

[Rutgers56]

The US News rankings are 50% based on surveys of the general public. Most of the public doesn't know how much research is done at a university, the starting salaries of graduates, or the acceptance rate into elite graduate schools. You know, the stuff that really matters. Most people judge a university by their sports programs.

Is that true about 50% of rankings being based on public surveys? That seems highly questionable. Not what you’re saying, but that so much emphasis would be placed on surveys when, for starters, there are so many hundreds of schools and then also regional biases would be a factor.

 

[Knight177lb]

Is that true about 50% of rankings being based on public surveys? That seems highly questionable. Not what you’re saying, but that so much emphasis would be placed on surveys when, for starters, there are so many hundreds of schools and then also regional biases would be a factor.

Yes, it is true that 50% of the score is based on a survey. I looked it up a few years ago. Unless it's changed since then. That's a hell of a lot weight to put on a factor. Your average person is just going to say a school is good if it's well known and sports is how people know about a school. I know a lot of people are going to say "what about the Ivy League schools?" Well actually, sports is why they exist. Remember, the Ivy League is a football conference. Yeah sure, it's an all-sports conference now, but it started as a football conference and was that way for a long time.

 

[pmvon]

Northeastern at 40 is a joke

In the B1G

Northwestern #9
Michigan #25
Wisconsin 46
Illinois 48
tOSU 54
Cult 57
Purdue 57
RU 62
Maryland 64
Minnesota 70
Indiana 79
MSU 84
Iowa 84
Nebraska 139

Basically when you take ties into account we most moved down 2 spots

Someone in Florida is cooking the books with UF at 34 and FSU at 57 (does anyone seriously believe that FSU is better than MSU or Iowa, nevermind RU or Maryland?)

Delaware at 91 is going to be a revolution in the Shop Rite Mom crowd. GW at 70 is another mystery. I would not consider Nova at 46 better than GW.

For anyone curious about our old conference, Cuse #54, Pitt #57, UConn #64. Somehow UMass is also 64.

FSU at 57 is just plain laughable.

 

[Rutgers56]

I’m floored. We all know these rankings, to a degree, are inane, but people put a lot of stock in them when looking at schools. And to some, there’s a difference between 62 and 57 even if it’s probably a .1-point variance. And to give so much credence to what all these random Tom, Dick and Harrys think is mind boggling.

Fact remains, Rutgers needs to play the game to move back up next year. One thing I have noticed is that, compared to the other schools around us in the rankings, we admit a larger percentage of students. Not to say I want to keep good kids out just so we can try to move into the top 50, but it has to be a factor.

 

[Knight177lb]

I’m floored. We all know these rankings, to a degree, are inane, but people put a lot of stock in them when looking at schools. And to some, there’s a difference between 62 and 57 even if it’s probably a .1-point variance. And to give so much credence to what all these random Tom, Dick and Harrys think is mind boggling.

Fact remains, Rutgers needs to play the game to move back up next year. One thing I have noticed is that, compared to the other schools around us in the rankings, we admit a larger percentage of students. Not to say I want to keep good kids out just so we can try to move into the top 50, but it has to be a factor.

Also, the reality is that more kids apply to schools with a winning football team. I know it doesn't make much sense, but that's the way it is, so improve you football team, you get more applications. The more applications, the lower the percentage accepted. The lower the percentage accepted, the better the ranking.

 

[Rutgers56]

Also, the reality is that more kids apply to schools with a winning football team. I know it doesn't make much sense, but that's the way it is, so improve you football team, you get more applications. The more applications, the lower the percentage accepted. The lower the percentage accepted, the better the ranking.

I’ve read the same thing about good football/applications. It shouldn’t make much sense if you’re an adult but to a 16-year-old, it does.

A couple month’s ago, I replied to a tweet by Chancellor Molloy, who had commented about both soccer teams and field hockey being ranked, saying we should all focus on the ranking where we’re being disrespected, that being US News & World Report. He liked the tweet, so hopefully he actually took it to heart and his office is focused on improving our outside perception.

 

[Caliknight]

It’s ridiculous. Our strongest freshman classes, improved facilities and more research money, and we drop from 56 to 62. I just don’t get it.

Our administration sucks at playing the game. Always has.

 

[e5fdny]

I know the type of kid around my neck of the woods who was accepted or going to Rutgers compared to the ones going to say State Penn (we’ll use them as an example) for the past few years.

Not worried at all for Rutgers.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I know the type of kid around my neck of the woods who was accepted or going to Rutgers compared to the ones going to say State Penn (we’ll use them as an example) for the past few years.

Not worried at all for Rutgers.

RU has higher SAT scores and GPAs than the Cult. We don't even need the stories, we have the numbers!

Safe to say (and I have said for sometime) a lot of the kids who go there and UDel did not get into RU.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Penn State uses 3 numbers to admit students: SAT, GPA & Zip Code. Have good scores on 2 out of 3 and you're in.

My kids school class of 2019,
Penn State: 62 kids applied, 57 were accepted (92%)
Delaware: 64 applied, 47 accepted (73%)
Rutgers: 152 applied, 93 accepted (61%)

 

[NotInRHouse]

Penn State uses 3 numbers to admit students: SAT, GPA & Zip Code. Have good scores on 2 out of 3 and you're in.

My kids school class of 2019,
Penn State: 62 kids applied, 57 were accepted (92%)
Delaware: 64 applied, 47 accepted (73%)
Rutgers: 152 applied, 93 accepted (61%)

Any idea which are going where?

 

[RUnTeX]

Penn State uses 3 numbers to admit students: SAT, GPA & Zip Code. Have good scores on 2 out of 3 and you're in.

My kids school class of 2019,
Penn State: 62 kids applied, 57 were accepted (92%)
Delaware: 64 applied, 47 accepted (73%)
Rutgers: 152 applied, 93 accepted (61%)

1. I'm assuming so but is this flagship-only data, i.e. PSU-University Park and Rutgers-NB? I believe UD is a single campus university so those must be flagship stats by default in their case. Just wondering if the comparison is apples to apples.

2. What was the 2019 total graduating class size?

3. Any granular Honors College/Honors Program admissions stats across the 3 schools from this high school?

 

[e5fdny]

Penn State uses 3 numbers to admit students: SAT, GPA & Zip Code. Have good scores on 2 out of 3 and you're in.

My kids school class of 2019,
Penn State: 62 kids applied, 57 were accepted (92%)
Delaware: 64 applied, 47 accepted (73%)
Rutgers: 152 applied, 93 accepted (61%)

The zip code thing explains a lot for who I was talking about earlier in the thread.

Makes total sense now.

And some private schools do the same thing for their merit (and sometimes need) based aid.

 

[RUJohnny99]

1. I'm assuming so but is this flagship-only data, i.e. PSU-University Park and Rutgers-NB? I believe UD is a single campus university so those must be flagship stats by default in their case. Just wondering if the comparison is apples to apples.

2. What was the 2019 total graduating class size?

3. Any granular Honors College/Honors Program admissions stats across the 3 schools from this high school?

1) flagship only. Camden stats: 0/0 applied/accepted in '19, 6/6 in '18, 7/7 in '17.
2) 500 give or take. It's part of Freehold Regional, and has 30 kids in the Science & Engineering program which skews the class rankings.
3) Nothing public. Personally I think "Honors College" is just a politically correct way of saying "merit scholarship".