Why Rutgers hasn't vastly improved in year 3 vs other 3rd year programs

[Extra Point]

Years 3 and 4 under a new regime usually have a vast improvement compared to the first couple of years. For example Coach Shea won Coach of the Year in his 3rd year and Coach Schiano won 5 games in his 3rd year after winning just 1 game the year before. We have not seen that jump thus far. I think the reason for that is because we changed schemes every year. At first we were going to run a spread option and recruited for that. The next year we ran a hybrid offense and this year we are running a true pro set offense. Other programs decide on what they are going to be, recruit players for it and by year three everyone has memorized it instinctively and they tweek it to add a twist for every type of defense that may be run against it. So basically we have had a new build every year thus far. Year '3' will be two years from now, if we stick with the current offensive scheme. The defense is another story, injuries and suspensions have left the defense undermanned.

 

[bwrlaw]

The simple reason, no matter what scheme, you need offensive and defensive linemen. With a decent line an average qb and backs look good. Without it, they look terrible.

 

[Knight Shift]

Years 3 and 4 under a new regime usually have a vast improvement compared to the first couple of years. For example Coach Shea won Coach of the Year in his 3rd year and Coach Schiano won 5 games in his 3rd year after winning just 1 game the year before. We have not seen that jump thus far. I think the reason for that is because we changed schemes every year. At first we were going to run a spread option and recruited for that. The next year we ran a hybrid offense and this year we are running a true pro set offense. Other programs decide on what they are going to be, recruit players for it and by year three everyone has memorized it instinctively and they tweek it to add a twist for every type of defense that may be run against it. So basically we have had a new build every year thus far. Year '3' will be two years from now, if we stick with the current offensive scheme. The defense is another story, injuries and suspensions have left the defense undermanned.

Maybe we should wait for more than 3 games to be completed to declare the season a failure?

 

[RUaMoose]

Shea had McMahon, Schiano Hart. Graber has Lucas and Fortay. Ash has an unproven TF. That’s part of it. Maybe if he didn’t dick around with a relatively meaningless bowl game out in AZ and hit the ground running he’d have a QB by now

 

[Knight Shift]

Shea had McMahon, Schiano Hart. Graber has Lucas and Fortay. Ash has an unproven TF. That’s part of it. Maybe if he didn’t dick around with a relatively meaningless bowl game out in AZ and hit the ground running he’d have a QB by now

C'mon Moose, that's weak and old.
Maybe one the of QBs he flushed out of the system because DM wanted to go spread would have been OK.
Hell, Flacco is lighting it up at Towson State. Dare is doing well with Sam Houston State. Lower level of competition, sure, but Flacco flashed in the Spring game.

We were all excited for Artur because of what we saw in the Spring game. We get fooled every year. No threat of getting hit and playing against our own defense are poor ways to judge offensive talent.

 

[G- RUnit]

Moose is right. So Shea like.

 

[batts]

It’s not all Ash’s fault. Recruiting has been subpar ever since Flood’s 2nd year. Any subsequent classes with decent rankings were a product of the quantity of recruits not quality. Poor recruiting has finally caught up with the Program. Ash needs help to keep top recruits from leaving the State.

 

[RUinSD]

Maybe we should wait for more than 3 games to be completed to declare the season a failure?

After losing by 41 to Kansas, the chances this season will not be a complete failure seem infinitesmal

 

[sct1111]

It’s not all Ash’s fault. Recruiting has been subpar ever since Flood’s 2nd year. Any subsequent classes with decent rankings were a product of the quantity of recruits not quality. Poor recruiting has finally caught up with the Program. Ash needs help to keep top recruits from leaving the State.

Recruiting has been bad but Kansas's recruiting has been even worse and they just killed us. I can't think of a single way Ash has improved this program besides being the recipient of some new facilities.

 

[RUinSD]

It’s not all Ash’s fault. Recruiting has been subpar ever since Flood’s 2nd year. Any subsequent classes with decent rankings were a product of the quantity of recruits not quality. Poor recruiting has finally caught up with the Program. Ash needs help to keep top recruits from leaving the State.

Poor recruiting is Ash's fault. Thats his job

 

[T2Kplus10]

Years 3 and 4 under a new regime usually have a vast improvement compared to the first couple of years. For example Coach Shea won Coach of the Year in his 3rd year and Coach Schiano won 5 games in his 3rd year after winning just 1 game the year before. We have not seen that jump thus far. I think the reason for that is because we changed schemes every year. At first we were going to run a spread option and recruited for that. The next year we ran a hybrid offense and this year we are running a true pro set offense. Other programs decide on what they are going to be, recruit players for it and by year three everyone has memorized it instinctively and they tweek it to add a twist for every type of defense that may be run against it. So basically we have had a new build every year thus far. Year '3' will be two years from now, if we stick with the current offensive scheme. The defense is another story, injuries and suspensions have left the defense undermanned.

Because Ash is a poor coach and recruiter. And yes, as said above, the lines are key and those are our biggest weaknesses.

 

[batts]

Poor recruiting is Ash's fault. Thats his job

Not entirely. He needs booster support to attract higher level recruits. It’s what all the Big Boys do.

 

[OC Knight]

Not entirely. He needs booster support to attract higher level recruits. It’s what all the Big Boys do.

At this point we are not asking him to recruit like the big boys. Losing to the blue bloods is expected but getting killed by Kansas in not expected. We should have the talent to beat or at the very least stay competitive with Kansas. Who’s fault is that? And please don’t say Flood. As much as I wasn’t a fan of Flood, none of what you say yesterday can be attributed to him at all.

 

[batts]

At this point we are not asking him to recruit like the big boys. Losing to the blue bloods is expected but getting killed by Kansas in not expected. We should have the talent to beat or at the very least stay competitive with Kansas. Who’s fault is that? And please don’t say Flood. As much as I wasn’t a fan of Flood, none of what you say yesterday can be attributed to him at all.

It’s indirectly Flood’s fault. He killed the buzz surrounding RU Football. With that said, I am definitely NOT an Ash supporter. He’s way over his head. A drastic change is needed either with a new coach who is a shark recruiter or with substantial booster support.

 

[cohwx]

I said in another thread - RU football has consistently done less with more for a while now. This has also been a characteristic of women's basketball under Stringer for many years, but in football even went back as far as the Schiano years. Think of the times we lost to teams we were supposedly better than, or to 5th string QBs, etc. Sure, our recruiting isn't great but as others have said - it's certainly been better than Kansas level. When was the last time RU football beat a superior opponent. It can be done with less talent if you have coaching, imaginative play calling, etc. Just a really sad situation. No energy, no passion evident.

I won't beat the GS horse but I think back to how I felt when he first arrived at RU. Everything seemed possible. Even if we never won a championship under GS, for a few years it felt like it was possible and everything was heading in the right direction. When will we get that feeling again I wonder...

 

[beaced]

The simple reason, no matter what scheme, you need offensive and defensive linemen. With a decent line an average qb and backs look good. Without it, they look terrible.

ABSOLUTELY and with out a doubt to be successful a team MUST have the B1G uglies on both sides of the line.With a good crew on both lines ,a decent to good QB and only decent skill people,that team will win games.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Years 3 and 4 under a new regime usually have a vast improvement compared to the first couple of years. For example Coach Shea won Coach of the Year in his 3rd year and Coach Schiano won 5 games in his 3rd year after winning just 1 game the year before. We have not seen that jump thus far. I think the reason for that is because we changed schemes every year. At first we were going to run a spread option and recruited for that. The next year we ran a hybrid offense and this year we are running a true pro set offense. Other programs decide on what they are going to be, recruit players for it and by year three everyone has memorized it instinctively and they tweek it to add a twist for every type of defense that may be run against it. So basically we have had a new build every year thus far. Year '3' will be two years from now, if we stick with the current offensive scheme. The defense is another story, injuries and suspensions have left the defense undermanned.

The problem is that no matter what offensive scheme RU has chosen to run, there has never even been below average OL play. It's been bad. Until that changes, it won't matter who the QB is or what offense they choose to run.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Recruiting has been bad but Kansas's recruiting has been even worse and they just killed us. I can't think of a single way Ash has improved this program besides being the recipient of some new facilities.

He hasnt really. not hearing good things from players perspective as well. no wonder we get those tweets. need to cut bait.

 

[RU-05]

The problem is that no matter what offensive scheme RU has chosen to run, there has never even been below average OL play. It's been bad. Until that changes, it won't matter who the QB is or what offense they choose to run.

The issue yesterday was not the OL. Or at least it is way down the list.

 

[shields]

Mike leach was 3-9 in third year at WSU and he probably started with a better QB than lavaino.

 

[batts]

At this point we are not asking him to recruit like the big boys. Losing to the blue bloods is expected but getting killed by Kansas in not expected. We should have the talent to beat or at the very least stay competitive with Kansas. Who’s fault is that? And please don’t say Flood. As much as I wasn’t a fan of Flood, none of what you say yesterday can be attributed to him at all.

Who besides Schiano was able to recruit at Rutgers? Not Graber. Not Shea. Not Flood.

 

[shields]

Graber did recruit, guys were flunking out. Bruce presely, Marco, Ray Lucas and Alcides Catanho was a good class of players.

 

[Kbee3]

Who besides Schiano was able to recruit at Rutgers? Not Graber. Not Shea. Not Flood.

So true.
People wanna ignore how hard it is to convince a top New Jersey high school kid to stay home and play for Rutgers when Notre Dame, Pedd State, Michigan, or Ohio State come calling.
Only Schiano could do that and he was only marginally successful.

 

[RUJMM78]

Joining the B1G without the facilities,recruiting base and high caliber coaching staff has caused Rutgers to just spin their wheels in frustration.Losses to teams like Kansas and Eastern Michigan are the end result.

 

[graystork]

I've been disappointed by Ash's recruiting. It's an unfair comparison but with Schiano we were competing with Power 5 schools for recruits. Now it seems the best we can do are three stars whose other offers are group of five schools. So our recruiting has gone down just as our competition has stepped up. (Flood lived off Schiano's recruits until he finally crashed). Ash had to start from scratch.

Now you can win with 3 stars if you can coach them up. Then if they win some big games you can attract better recruits with the buzz. This was my hope for Ash. That this season we could get to a bowl game, maybe pull off one shock the world upset in the Big Ten East and climb up a level on the food chain with our recruiting. I was hoping we'd see some of Ash's recruits start to put it together and win games this year. So far this has not happened.

Kansas is only one game, just like New Hampshire was. (Actually NH might have been worse, it was year 4 and an FCS team). But the Kansas loss really dampened the hopes of a bowl game which I think a lot of us (hell Ash included) were hoping for. If Rutgers wins 5 games this year are any of you die hards really going to bolt? That will be progress. Just not the amount of progress most of us were hoping for this year.

Now if we can't even win 4, all bets are off.

 

[OC Knight]

Who besides Schiano was able to recruit at Rutgers? Not Graber. Not Shea. Not Flood.

Do you belive any of those guys would lose to Kansas like that? Again recruiting is part of it but sonis coaching them up. Do you really belive its easier to recruit at KAnsas? Yet they put a hurting on us.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Who besides Schiano was able to recruit at Rutgers? Not Graber. Not Shea. Not Flood.

Not graber? dude u have no idea wtf u are talking about.

 

[shields]

Schiano lost to Navy in 2004 54-21. Navy killed us. Graber had a class in 1992 with 21 kids. Brian Sheridan was in that class. 7 kids flunked out after one year. 1/3 flunked out. Big tackle named Michael Craig who the Cuse wanted badly.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Do you belive any of those guys would lose to Kansas like that? Again recruiting is part of it but sonis coaching them up. Do you really belive its easier to recruit at KAnsas? Yet they put a hurting on us.

All excuses by the faithful. cannot compare Greg Schiano in year 3 to Ash.

 

[NagaNooch]

Isn’t Ash a defensive guy? Why do we have the most vanilla defense since he’s been here? Why aren’t the players developed better? Doesn’t the new gym, new practice fields, etc help recruiting? Nope.
It took Schiano time, yes, but he had visible energy on the sideline, a fire, and players rallied around him. Schiano didn’t get blown out badly in his third year. Schiano was creative with plays and developed his players well. His recruiting improved each year too. Ash has no energy and an insecure personality. Upgrade the facilities all you want but it ain’t gonna change unless you change the HC.

 

[colbert17]

The simple reason, no matter what scheme, you need offensive and defensive linemen. With a decent line an average qb and backs look good. Without it, they look terrible.

Seriously?? Not sure what you want. We're already getting the best linemen out of Sweden.

 

[Knight Shift]

Isn’t Ash a defensive guy? Why do we have the most vanilla defense since he’s been here? Why aren’t the players developed better? Doesn’t the new gym, new practice fields, etc help recruiting? Nope.
It took Schiano time, yes, but he had visible energy on the sideline, a fire, and players rallied around him. Schiano didn’t get blown out badly in his third year. Schiano was creative with plays and developed his players well. His recruiting improved each year too. Ash has no energy and an insecure personality. Upgrade the facilities all you want but it ain’t gonna change unless you change the HC.

Great. But in year 4 he lost to New Hampshire and got blown out by Navy.

 

[urbanecane]

I've been disappointed by Ash's recruiting. It's an unfair comparison but with Schiano we were competing with Power 5 schools for recruits. Now it seems the best we can do are three stars whose other offers are group of five schools. So our recruiting has gone down just as our competition has stepped up. (Flood lived off Schiano's recruits until he finally crashed). Ash had to start from scratch.

Now you can win with 3 stars if you can coach them up. Then if they win some big games you can attract better recruits with the buzz. This was my hope for Ash. That this season we could get to a bowl game, maybe pull off one shock the world upset in the Big Ten East and climb up a level on the food chain with our recruiting. I was hoping we'd see some of Ash's recruits start to put it together and win games this year. So far this has not happened.

Kansas is only one game, just like New Hampshire was. (Actually NH might have been worse, it was year 4 and an FCS team). But the Kansas loss really dampened the hopes of a bowl game which I think a lot of us (hell Ash included) were hoping for. If Rutgers wins 5 games this year are any of you die hards really going to bolt? That will be progress. Just not the amount of progress most of us were hoping for this year.

Now if we can't even win 4, all bets are off.

At this point, anything more than 2 wins would
be very surprising.

 

[Jimpeg]

Not entirely. He needs booster support to attract higher level recruits. It’s what all the Big Boys do.

boosters are not allowed to meet with recruits...the facts are for 2 decades everyone says keep the top recruits in the state...it seems pretty selfish for some - if your son was a 4 star would you tell him you have to stay in NJ if other Big10 or SEC schools..ask Guartano Dad was an Alum, he could practically name ever street in East Brunswick, visits Tenesee and says im going there want to break all of Peyton Mannings records....Has anyone visited these schools and their football traditions? I don't see how any NJ kid goes to a PSU for a night time white out and decides to go to Rutgers, I've see a lot of schools and most are nicer than East Brunswick.. what will draw a young player from this area is that parents and friends can watch all the games and probably a better chance to play earlier....a charismatic coach would also help

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

This is a question that would defy Vince Lombardi and Al Einstein but you have the answers? Good job.

 

[theRU]

I mean if our games with psu,osu, um, were 28-14 or 35-21 type affairs you could make step up recruiting. 78-0 makes it hard to tell a recruit you know what you are doing

 

[RW90]

I mean if our games with psu,osu, um, were 28-14 or 35-21 type affairs you could make step up recruiting. 78-0 makes it hard to tell a recruit you know what you are doing

Exactly, you need to show tangible progress. Otherwise, its very easy for other coaches to negative recruit against us for the top prospects.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Do you belive any of those guys would lose to Kansas like that? Again recruiting is part of it but sonis coaching them up. Do you really belive its easier to recruit at KAnsas? Yet they put a hurting on us.

Shea would have.

 

[RU848789]

Years 3 and 4 under a new regime usually have a vast improvement compared to the first couple of years. For example Coach Shea won Coach of the Year in his 3rd year and Coach Schiano won 5 games in his 3rd year after winning just 1 game the year before. We have not seen that jump thus far. I think the reason for that is because we changed schemes every year. At first we were going to run a spread option and recruited for that. The next year we ran a hybrid offense and this year we are running a true pro set offense. Other programs decide on what they are going to be, recruit players for it and by year three everyone has memorized it instinctively and they tweek it to add a twist for every type of defense that may be run against it. So basically we have had a new build every year thus far. Year '3' will be two years from now, if we stick with the current offensive scheme. The defense is another story, injuries and suspensions have left the defense undermanned.

Pales in comparison to the 900 pound gorilla in the room. Ash has failed to recruit a mediocre, let alone good QB. By far the most important position on the field and he's completely whiffed, so far (and hasn't used who he's had well). Inexcusable. As I just posted in the psyche thread I started, our best QB might just be Chatman. Go look at his tape again - love his touch and footspeed (even if he is small and doesn't have a cannon), plus he actually played well last year.

 

[ru-baby]

East brunswick?

Wow