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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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Not sure if this article has already been dissected in the last 1/2 dozen thread pages, but it certainly seems to make a strong case against the latest big lib media talking points. What's that saying again...lies, damn lies and statistics...

Horowitz: The new panic lie: Increased coronavirus hospitalizations and cases in the southwest

The health “experts” and the media propagating viral panic porn think people like us don’t understand arithmetic. They think they can manipulate headline stories warning of increased cases of COVID-19 in order to push more lockdowns, ignoring all the ways that more cases are being discovered, while the percentage of positive tests, new hospitalizations and deaths, and the lethality of the virus are all waning significantly.

“Arizona’s COVID-19 spread is ‘alarming’ and action is needed, experts warn,” read the title of an Arizona Republic article on Wednesday. Yahoo News breathlessly warned about a “spike” in all the southwestern states.


As is always the case, there is a grain of truth that is hugely distorted by numerous obfuscations of important facts and context. The truth is that new hospitalizations of people coming in for serious coronavirus infections are actually extremely low. What they are actually counting are the extra people coming in for all of the delayed health care caused by the lockdown. But thanks to universal testing in hospitals, they are discovering more asymptomatic cases than ever before, which had nothing to do with the original purpose of the hospital stay. Thus, they are blaming the fallout of the lockdown on the easing of the lockdown!


https://www.conservativereview.com/...coronavirus-hospitalizations-cases-southwest/

People can feel free to accept or denounce articles and data posted by certain media outlets intended to skew opinions in either direction. The chief clinical officer of the largest healthcare system in AZ said this on June 5th:

.."Arizona is headed to a health crisis if residents don't change their. habits to deal with COVID-19. Dr. Marjorie Bessel said the intensive- care units at the Maricopa County hospitals for Banner Health. already are at full capacity. And other hospitals in Arizona are rapidly. approaching that point. These are COVID-19 patients who are in the ICU who are ventilated,'' Bessel said. "And those individuals are in our hospitals for a long period of time,'' she said. In fact, Bessel. provided data showing the number of Banner patients on ventilators. has tripled in less than two weeks.

I will hang my hat on that all day and every day over most media outlets...for any of those supporting the full opening of towns/counties/states, this is what could happen (and much worse). I was hoping states like AZ, CA, NC, SC, FL, and many of the other Sunbelt states would take the cue of NJ, NY, CT, etc. and be more cautious in their approach to reopening..
 
Hell people would go nuts if the virus did become less deadly. Still learning everyday. Anyway where a mask...
It happen with SARS 1 and many other viruses. Yes, wear a mask when needed but keep an eye on the data. The numbers don’t lie.
 
"The drop in Miami-Dade hospitalizations — a number the county keeps track of — may mean that expanded testing is catching more mild or asymptomatic cases that don’t require hospitalization,"
This could definitely be part of it.
"Or it could be that those infections will lead to hospitalizations later — they just haven’t gotten that bad yet"
Now go check the graph in the link I posted.

That statement does not make sense. Asymptomatic or mild CV-19 people hardly require hospitalization for their symptoms, so they dont directly affect the hospitalization rate. You can make a case if their mild symptoms are treated appropriately, that management may prevent them from being admitted. But if they are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, they most likely will never need emergency treatment. Identifying positive patients and isolating them can help reduce the infection rate which may indirectly affect potential future admissions...maybe that is the reasoning?
 
That's possible too. But as the graph pointed out, hospitalizations did increase this past week over the previous two weeks.

Unfortunately like new cases I doubt that trend doesn't continue this week.

I also wonder what the demographics are of the people testing positive. Is it younger people or is it running rampant in LTC facilities like it was here?
 
I also wonder what the demographics are of the people testing positive. Is it younger people or is it running rampant in LTC facilities like it was here?
I assume by the low fatalities in FL thus far that it has not been in the LTC's.
 
That statement does not make sense. Asymptomatic or mild CV-19 people hardly require hospitalization for their symptoms, so they dont directly affect the hospitalization rate. You can make a case if their mild symptoms are treated appropriately, that management may prevent them from being admitted. But if they are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, they most likely will never need emergency treatment. Identifying positive patients and isolating them can help reduce the infection rate which may indirectly affect potential future admissions...maybe that is the reasoning?
The question was why are cases up but hospitalizations not so much(though as the graph I posted shows it is trending upwards since the reopening) but if they are testing more, and thus catching more of the mild cases that would explain why hospitalizations are up at a slower rate then overall cases.
 
I assume by the low fatalities in FL thus far that it has not been in the LTC's.
Although there’s 3x as many pneumonia deaths compared to the average year there over the same time frame makes me not so sure they’ve haven’t had a few thousand more deaths that were corona but not labeled as such. I believe many states have likely had similar issues though including NY and NJ, despite their already high death tolls
 
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Here's a fairly balanced article on some states going up, some staying level and some going down - and while there are plausible explanations for most of them, there is also still significant uncertainty, which is something we'll continue to have to live with.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/scientists-coronavirus-cases-surge-some-states

However, one thing that's no longer uncertain to any scientists/epidemiologists I know, is that masks and distancing work to reduce transmission. Which is why AZ Gov Ducey's irresponsible, cavalier attitude to the rising cases/hospitalizations in his state is so disappointing to see.

During a press conference on Thursday, Ducey told reporters that while he encourages Arizonians to "wear masks when they can't socially distance" in public, he will not be following other states in enforcing face coverings by law.

Ducey encouraged citizens to "learn to live with" the virus and said it won't be "going away" anytime soon.

https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-go...ses-spike-says-people-need-learn-live-1510713
 
Anyone know the average cost per hospitalization of a covid patient? How much time in ICU care?
Regardless of outcome.
Don't know about the average cost and I guess it all depends on the severity and treatments but did run across this article yesterday. 70 year old guy who was near death got 1.1M in bills but probably won't have to pay most as he's covered by Medicare and Medicare Advantage by Kaiser Permanente and they might be waiving most out of pocket costs for COVID patients through 2020.

I've had a family member who has had that guy kind of bill and was covered by Medicare and a secondary insurance as well so only paid 1000+ dollars but let me tell you just seeing the number still gives you sticker shock and rattles you. Without the secondary insurance Medicare only covers 80% so 20% of a huge number like that is still a lot.

From the article:

Just the charge for his room in the intensive care unit was billed at $9,736 per day. Due to the contagious nature of the virus, the room was sealed and could only be entered by medical workers wearing plastic suits and headgear. For 42 days he was in this isolation chamber, for a total charged cost of $408,912.

He also was on a mechanical ventilator for 29 days, with the use of the machine billed at $2,835 per day, for a total of $82,215. About a quarter of the bill is drug costs.

The list of charges indirectly tells the story of Flor’s battle. For the two days when his heart, kidneys and lungs were all failing and he was nearest death, the bill runs for 20 pages and totals nearly $100,000 as doctors “were throwing everything at me they could think of,” Flor says.

In all, there are nearly 3,000 itemized charges, about 50 per day. Usually hospitals get paid only a portion of the amount they bill, as most have negotiated discounts with insurance companies. The charges don’t include the two weeks of recuperating he did in a rehab facility.

Going through it all, Flor said he was surprised at his own reaction. Which was guilt.

“I feel guilty about surviving,” he says. “There’s a sense of ‘why me?’ Why did I deserve all this? Looking at the incredible cost of it all definitely adds to that survivor’s guilt.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...omes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/
 
I see a lot of back and forth and debate over growing hospitalizations and the fact that the absolute numbers being low and not as bad as NJ/NY and capacity in some of these places being able to handle it and not being a big deal.

If the numbers stay down that's great but the thing is we don't know. I point back to India. I've said before I think heat/humidity play a role but now I think maybe not as much as we'd like without other measures being followed well. I mention India because this whole thing started in their "neighborhood" of the world and for a quite a while they didn't have many issues and hospitalizations were manageable but now 4-7 months later it's finally pushing their hospital system in parts of the country. So we kind a see what kind of slow ramp up it took (I think probably because of the heat/humidity). So hospitalizations and capacity can remain manageable for quite a while but then depending on density/demographics/weather etc...it can ramp up.

For India it's taken many months....what could that possibly translate to in some areas here in terms of time if it were to occur...I don't know. But I also mentioned in India that while hospitalizations and cases are going up, recovery rates/death rates are better hopefully due to lower viral load transmissions because of warm/humid weather. So maybe even if people are being hospitalized maybe they will more likely be survivable situations during the summer.
 
Don't know about the average cost and I guess it all depends on the severity and treatments but did run across this article yesterday. 70 year old guy who was near death got 1.1M in bills but probably won't have to pay most as he's covered by Medicare and Medicare Advantage by Kaiser Permanente and they might be waiving most out of pocket costs for COVID patients through 2020.

I've had a family member who has had that guy kind of bill and was covered by Medicare and a secondary insurance as well so only paid 1000+ dollars but let me tell you just seeing the number still gives you sticker shock and rattles you. Without the secondary insurance Medicare only covers 80% so 20% of a huge number like that is still a lot.

From the article:

Just the charge for his room in the intensive care unit was billed at $9,736 per day. Due to the contagious nature of the virus, the room was sealed and could only be entered by medical workers wearing plastic suits and headgear. For 42 days he was in this isolation chamber, for a total charged cost of $408,912.

He also was on a mechanical ventilator for 29 days, with the use of the machine billed at $2,835 per day, for a total of $82,215. About a quarter of the bill is drug costs.

The list of charges indirectly tells the story of Flor’s battle. For the two days when his heart, kidneys and lungs were all failing and he was nearest death, the bill runs for 20 pages and totals nearly $100,000 as doctors “were throwing everything at me they could think of,” Flor says.

In all, there are nearly 3,000 itemized charges, about 50 per day. Usually hospitals get paid only a portion of the amount they bill, as most have negotiated discounts with insurance companies. The charges don’t include the two weeks of recuperating he did in a rehab facility.

Going through it all, Flor said he was surprised at his own reaction. Which was guilt.

“I feel guilty about surviving,” he says. “There’s a sense of ‘why me?’ Why did I deserve all this? Looking at the incredible cost of it all definitely adds to that survivor’s guilt.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...omes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/

This country has got to fix this problem.
 
Here's a fairly balanced article on some states going up, some staying level and some going down - and while there are plausible explanations for most of them, there is also still significant uncertainty, which is something we'll continue to have to live with.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/scientists-coronavirus-cases-surge-some-states

However, one thing that's no longer uncertain to any scientists/epidemiologists I know, is that masks and distancing work to reduce transmission. Which is why AZ Gov Ducey's irresponsible, cavalier attitude to the rising cases/hospitalizations in his state is so disappointing to see.

During a press conference on Thursday, Ducey told reporters that while he encourages Arizonians to "wear masks when they can't socially distance" in public, he will not be following other states in enforcing face coverings by law.

Ducey encouraged citizens to "learn to live with" the virus and said it won't be "going away" anytime soon.

https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-go...ses-spike-says-people-need-learn-live-1510713

AZ hospitals at 83% capacity with ICUs full. Ducey is making some very unwise choices here. 83% can turn to 100% in days but it's too late to stop that if it is their fate.


If I recall, she was fired from her position because she was instructed to hide numbers and she refused. I will always support someone who was canned for trying to do the right thing. Good for her.
 
Here's a fairly balanced article on some states going up, some staying level and some going down - and while there are plausible explanations for most of them, there is also still significant uncertainty, which is something we'll continue to have to live with.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/scientists-coronavirus-cases-surge-some-states

However, one thing that's no longer uncertain to any scientists/epidemiologists I know, is that masks and distancing work to reduce transmission. Which is why AZ Gov Ducey's irresponsible, cavalier attitude to the rising cases/hospitalizations in his state is so disappointing to see.

During a press conference on Thursday, Ducey told reporters that while he encourages Arizonians to "wear masks when they can't socially distance" in public, he will not be following other states in enforcing face coverings by law.

Ducey encouraged citizens to "learn to live with" the virus and said it won't be "going away" anytime soon.

https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-go...ses-spike-says-people-need-learn-live-1510713
Excellent quotes by the Az gov. Nice to see a realist running a state.
 
Comments from Scott Gottlieb on CNBC. Thinks unlikely for states to shutdown again this summer or even the fall and that the 20K cases a day is still a high number and these consistent outbreaks here and there will happen at that level. Thinks aggressive contact tracing and finding the source (activities that led to infection, not necessarily every infected person) of outbreaks is important. Doesn't think outbreaks in Houston/Phoenix etc..will get as bad as NYC because of more testing now but it still has the potential to become like that.

From the article:

States like Arizona, Texas and Florida that are seeing surges in confirmed cases, as well as spikes in hospitalizations, in some cases should be conducting aggressive contact tracing, Gottlieb said. Contact tracing occurs when trained personnel interview infected individuals to pinpoint where they were infected and to track down others who might have been exposed.

“We’re not going to be able to shut down the country again this summer. We’re probably not going to be able to shut down the country again this fall,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “And so we’re going to need to try to isolate the sources of these outbreaks and take targeted steps. If we can’t do that, these will get out of control.”

Nationally, the virus continues to infect about 20,000 people each day, Gottlieb said, adding that it’s a higher rate of infection than many other countries that have grappled with large outbreaks. He noted that come the fall, other countries might place travel restrictions on Americans because of the high level of persistent spread.

In lieu of shutting down much of the economy and restricting movement again, Gottlieb said contact tracing and targeted responses will be key to the U.S. response.

Different states have made various commitments to contact tracing efforts and the federal government has yet to outline specific criteria that states should strive to meet, such as the number of tracers per 100,000 residents.

Gottlieb said that Arizona could take responsibility for contact tracing efforts away from the counties and centralize the effort under state leadership.

He added that the situation in Pheonix, Houston and other hot spots around the country is unlikely to become as bad as the outbreak in New York, “but it has the potential to.” The current hot spots have an advantage that New York didn’t, which is more widespread testing, Gottlieb said.

“This could quickly get out of control,” he said. “What these states need to do, what these cities need to do is good contact tracing, not to find every individual who’s infected, but to find the sources of infection, the activities that lead to the infection and take targeted mitigation steps.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/dr-...t-spots-could-quickly-get-out-of-control.html
 
AZ hospitals at 83% capacity with ICUs full. Ducey is making some very unwise choices here. 83% can turn to 100% in days but it's too late to stop that if it is their fate.



If I recall, she was fired from her position because she was instructed to hide numbers and she refused. I will always support someone who was canned for trying to do the right thing. Good for her.
I don't know what the real story was but it was her claim that she was fired for refusing to doctor the number of cases. Her administrators deny that was the reason and stated it was due to performance issues. To me, the fact that she's creating her own database makes it appear to be a "look at me" issue.
 
People can feel free to accept or denounce articles and data posted by certain media outlets intended to skew opinions in either direction. The chief clinical officer of the largest healthcare system in AZ said this on June 5th:

.."Arizona is headed to a health crisis if residents don't change their. habits to deal with COVID-19. Dr. Marjorie Bessel said the intensive- care units at the Maricopa County hospitals for Banner Health. already are at full capacity. And other hospitals in Arizona are rapidly. approaching that point. These are COVID-19 patients who are in the ICU who are ventilated,'' Bessel said. "And those individuals are in our hospitals for a long period of time,'' she said. In fact, Bessel. provided data showing the number of Banner patients on ventilators. has tripled in less than two weeks.

I will hang my hat on that all day and every day over most media outlets...for any of those supporting the full opening of towns/counties/states, this is what could happen (and much worse). I was hoping states like AZ, CA, NC, SC, FL, and many of the other Sunbelt states would take the cue of NJ, NY, CT, etc. and be more cautious in their approach to reopening..
Why only CERTAIN media? All media have their biases and that is factual... just say ALL Media and then you eliminate any agenda on either side .
 
Comments from Scott Gottlieb on CNBC. Thinks unlikely for states to shutdown again this summer or even the fall and that the 20K cases a day is still a high number and these consistent outbreaks here and there will happen at that level. Thinks aggressive contact tracing and finding the source (activities that led to infection, not necessarily every infected person) of outbreaks is important. Doesn't think outbreaks in Houston/Phoenix etc..will get as bad as NYC because of more testing now but it still has the potential to become like that.

From the article:

States like Arizona, Texas and Florida that are seeing surges in confirmed cases, as well as spikes in hospitalizations, in some cases should be conducting aggressive contact tracing, Gottlieb said. Contact tracing occurs when trained personnel interview infected individuals to pinpoint where they were infected and to track down others who might have been exposed.

“We’re not going to be able to shut down the country again this summer. We’re probably not going to be able to shut down the country again this fall,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “And so we’re going to need to try to isolate the sources of these outbreaks and take targeted steps. If we can’t do that, these will get out of control.”

Nationally, the virus continues to infect about 20,000 people each day, Gottlieb said, adding that it’s a higher rate of infection than many other countries that have grappled with large outbreaks. He noted that come the fall, other countries might place travel restrictions on Americans because of the high level of persistent spread.

In lieu of shutting down much of the economy and restricting movement again, Gottlieb said contact tracing and targeted responses will be key to the U.S. response.

Different states have made various commitments to contact tracing efforts and the federal government has yet to outline specific criteria that states should strive to meet, such as the number of tracers per 100,000 residents.

Gottlieb said that Arizona could take responsibility for contact tracing efforts away from the counties and centralize the effort under state leadership.

He added that the situation in Pheonix, Houston and other hot spots around the country is unlikely to become as bad as the outbreak in New York, “but it has the potential to.” The current hot spots have an advantage that New York didn’t, which is more widespread testing, Gottlieb said.

“This could quickly get out of control,” he said. “What these states need to do, what these cities need to do is good contact tracing, not to find every individual who’s infected, but to find the sources of infection, the activities that lead to the infection and take targeted mitigation steps.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/dr-...t-spots-could-quickly-get-out-of-control.html
+1
Time to open up. Folks can decide what they are comfortable with doing.
 
Anyone think contact tracing can really be effective? I have doubts
contact tracing can definitely be effective. however, it requires a significant imposition on personal privacy rights. we hold them much more dear than all of the countries who have rolled out effective contact tracing programs, so, unless our mindset changes, there's no way it will be anything more than moderately effective in the US.
 
So the increase in ventilator use, which was at 201 on May 13th, and is now at 317 is because of people who needed to be on ventilators but were scared to come in?

ICU beds were at 323 a month ago, currently at 452.

Overall AZ ICU bed usage had a total capacity of 1200, with 741 in use on March 26th. Right now there are currently 1300 beds in use.

And yeah, deaths lag behind new cases. We learned about this months ago, and it will likely be more prominent now, and even a lesser death rate, because of treatment.
We should get a geographic breakdown of the covid ICU bed and covid ventilator increases since the combined increase of about 245 in a state of over 7million could be largely attributable to the Mexi border hospitals as was pointed out also in the Horowitz article.
 
We should get a geographic breakdown of the covid ICU bed and covid ventilator increases since the combined increase of about 245 in a state of over 7million could be largely attributable to the Mexi border hospitals as was pointed out also in the Horowitz article.
That article was so filled with bad info that I'm not putting much stock in the mexican border possibility for AZ.
 
Excellent quotes by the Az gov. Nice to see a realist running a state.

Will see how excellent those quotes turn out to be if they reach 100% capacity (and they are getting close) and the hospitals turn into a quagmire.

Why only CERTAIN media? All media have their biases and that is factual... just say ALL Media and then you eliminate any agenda on either side .

I have no agenda and never pointed towards any certain political side.
But if you prefer me to say ALL media, I will gladly comply.

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Monday revoked the emergency use authorization for malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, the use of which has been championed by U.S. President Donald Trump."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ug-touted-by-trump-for-covid-19-idUSKBN23M283

What's next? The FDA will denounce the emergency use of drinking bleach to kill the virus from the inside? This nonsense never ends!!
 
contact tracing can definitely be effective. however, it requires a significant imposition on personal privacy rights. we hold them much more dear than all of the countries who have rolled out effective contact tracing programs, so, unless our mindset changes, there's no way it will be anything more than moderately effective in the US.
I struggle with this. If someone is infected and goes to the supermarket - how can we let everyone know who they were near in the market?

same with dining. I guess if my server tested positive they can contact me (if they had my info)- but how do they have my info ?
 
I struggle with this. If someone is infected and goes to the supermarket - how can we let everyone know who they were near in the market?

same with dining. I guess if my server tested positive they can contact me (if they had my info)- but how do they have my info ?
on Dining, that is one of the reasons that restaurants are suggesting everyone make reservations(opentable or whatever) when dining out.
 
That article was so filled with bad info that I'm not putting much stock in the mexican border possibility for AZ.
Wait...what's the bad info here?
1c76e548-az_daily_hospitalization_chart.png


As you can see, if you break down the new admissions by date of admission, as this chart does, the numbers are actually near zero over the past week. There was only one new admission on Wednesday, the last day of reporting.
 
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Wait...what's the bad info here?
1c76e548-az_daily_hospitalization_chart.png


As you can see, if you break down the new admissions by date of admission, as this chart does, the numbers are actually near zero over the past week. There was only one new admission on Wednesday, the last day of reporting.
Seems pretty obvious looking at that data that like most reports, the data for the last 6-7 days is incomplete. While it doesn't state so on that particular page, it does state that on other Covid daily trending reports on the Arizona site. Easy way to verify this is to look at the numbers again in a couple days to seen if the recent days have changed significantly. My bet is they will.
 
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Seems pretty obvious looking at that data that like most reports, the data for the last 6-7 days is incomplete. While it doesn't state so on that particular page, it does state that on other Covid daily trending reports on the Arizona site. Easy way to verify this is to look at the numbers again in a couple days to seen if the recent days have changed significantly. My bet is they will.
Sure it was data from last week, in an article about the media reporting on AZ's covid case numbers from last week. Yes, I'll stay tuned, as we all should.:ThumbsUp
 


John Oliver last night had a good piece on facial recognition technology. There is now an app where if you take a random picture of someone say in a public place and then load it to the facial recognition hardware, the person whose picture you took.......then the app will provide you with all kinds of info about the person including the address and phone number. Scary stuff.

Another company has uploaded every picture of everyone from Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin etc and they are working with law enforcement to identify protesters at Black Live Matters protest.

Facial recognition along with GPS locations could make it very easy to literally cover most everyone's movements each and every minute.

But at what price?
 
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I struggle with this. If someone is infected and goes to the supermarket - how can we let everyone know who they were near in the market?

same with dining. I guess if my server tested positive they can contact me (if they had my info)- but how do they have my info ?
There are contact tracing apps rolling out around the globe. I think Germany is just about to roll theirs out and it's been done in Asia as well in some countries. The newest version of iOS allows for it to be activated too when apps here get created. Privacy issues are there but it would be voluntary and can be removed too. But if there's positive case, you'd know all the phones in the area of that person's movement and can alert those people of possible exposure.

https://www.engadget.com/germany-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-ready-213819369.html
 
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